Abstinence programs: lessons in futility? -Dallas Morning News

[Rose Siding]

Abstinence-only programs – the hallmark of the Bush administration's federal sex education policy – seem to have little impact on the behavior of Texas teenagers.

The first evaluation of programs used throughout the state has found that students in almost all high school grades were more sexually active after abstinence education. Researchers don't believe the programs encouraged teenagers to have sex, only that the abstinence messages did not interfere with the usual trends among adolescents growing up.

"We didn't find what many would like for us to find," said researcher Buzz Pruitt of Texas A&M University. He and his colleagues discussed their data this week with state health authorities in Austin, who sponsored the research.
...
Nonetheless, public health experts say these and other data may eventually help fashion abstinence-only approaches that can make a difference. No-sex-until-marriage has been a major emphasis in Washington, and funding has increased in kind: The $131 million the federal government set aside represents an increase of $30 million over 2004, according to the Senate Appropriations Committee.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/013005dnnatabstinence.a9173.html

[NashVegas]

2. Maybe If They Scared 'em More ...

you know, talked about coodies and stuff like that.

[0007]

19. Yeah the scare tactics weren't strong enough? LOL!!

The Congressional staff analysis found during a survey that that the American youngsters that participated in the federally funded abstinence - programs had been taught for the last three years that abortion can lead to sterility and suicide, and half the gay male teenagers in the U.S. have tested positive for the AIDS virus. Also touching another person's genitals "can result in pregnancy."

[LiberallyInclined]

22. mutual masturbation CAN result in pregnancy.

this is a point I always hear people on our side ridicule on tv talk shows, saying that it is a lie used as a scare tactic by the fundy right...

HOWEVER-

not to be too crude or graphic, but if "heavy petting" is going on, and the guy ejaculates, gets some on his hands and fingers, and then inserts those same fingers into his partner, pregnancy CAN occur.

I'm not saying it's likely, or anything like that, simply that it IS POSSIBLE...

(unless of course immediatly afterwards the girl takes 3 aspirins, douches with diet coke, and stands on her head in a cold shower for 23 minutes...:crazy: )

[VegasWolf]

41. mutual masturbation can also be fun. n/t

[donheld]

64. Is that how the "virgin" Mary did it

I've always wondered.

[Scairp]

67. Riiight

And if my mother had balls she's be my father. :eyes:

[LiberallyInclined]

70. as i stated in my original post-

i'm not saying that it is at all likely, merely that it is possible...if it you don't believe it, then maybe you should go back to your mother and ask her to tell you the truth this time about where babies come from. :hi:

[girl gone mad]

73. You reach a point where the scare tactics have an opposite effect.

I grew up in the mid to late 80s, early 90s. I can remember going to get an HIV test with a friend who was just certain that she was going to test positive from having sex with her teenage boyfriend, even though both had been virgins. Being told by the media, parents, doctors, school counselors, etc on an almost daily basis that sex could kill still wasn't enough to stop us. When it's drilled into your head that having sex just once is extremely risky, you tend to stop thinking rationally about it. A lot of young people had the attitude that everyone was going to get it and we were all going to die, so might as well throw caution to the wind.

This is the same thing that happens in the war on drugs. No real distinction is drawn between smoking pot and using methamphetamines, and as a result, kids lump all drug use together.

Teens will start ignoring the message completely when they realize that the bad things which had been predicted just aren't happening to them.

[0007]

86. ...and society as a whole pays very little attention to the big bad wolf

anymore. In a competitive society it is all about me and money. Welcome to capitalism and all the pig pals!

[SHRED]

3. Millions and millions of dollars

to try to suppress the most powerful human urge.

The bushies sure know how to spend our money...don't they!

[VegasWolf]

35. Yea, and the "marijuanna kills" campaigns. n/t

[WildClarySage]

4. Be more effective to invest that money in

secret research to develop a hormone-blocker that keeps teens from getting horny and then put it in high school water fountains.

[leesa]

14. Shhh! Don't be giving out Plan B!

[A Simple Game]

71. No good, it wouldn't work.

You would just see a lot more March, April, and May births.

But I was thinking the same thing.

How stupid, policy by old men who forget what power hormones have.

[meow2u3]

5. The bottom line: forbidden fruit

Kids will do what they're told not to do, if not just to prove that adults can't dictate to them.
Abstinence education, as it's taught now, only backfires because it simply tells kids not to have sex without giving them a good reason.

[Robb]

7. Agreed; it's nonsense for the same reasons

...as "Just Say No."

The thing no one ever told me, which I would have appreciated growing up, is that honestly, smoking and drugs feel great. I'd have liked to hear one person say, "You know, smoking a ciggy? Fantastic. Feels fucking awesome. But here's the reasons you shouldn't start."

[rocktivity]

93. DING DING DING! Robb, you're our grand prize winner!

I'd have liked to hear one person say, "You know, smoking a ciggy? Fantastic...But here's the reasons you shouldn't start."

It is any wonder we didn't listen to our parents? Everything I was told about sex, booze, and rock and roll turned out to be dead wrong! Good thing I was too poor to buy cigarettes or birth control and too squeamish to snort or inject anything, or I probably would have tried them, too!

:headbang:
rocknation

[American Renaissance]

6. like trying to tell a dog not to lick itself.

when an authority figure tells a teenager to or not to do damn near anything...

Look how well telling kids not to smoke has worked...
Look how well telling kids not to drink has worked...
Look how well telling kids not to listen to rap has worked...
Look how well telling kids not to drive fast has worked...

on a personal note...

My girlfriend in high school went to this lunatic fundy school, her parents were the most firebreathing Christians you could imagine,

anyone want to guess where I am getting with this?

[ashmanonar]

8. a fun girlfriend?

:evilgrin:

[American Renaissance]

68. oh yes...

what would her god fearing parents think if they knew their daughter did it on a waterslide.

[SHRED]

12. Ooooh....

you lucky dog!

[genieroze]

20. How does this saying go?

Now that I'm 21 I'm able to legally do everything that I have been doing since I was 15. lol

[TahitiNut]

9. More likely to get pregnant when they fall off the wagon.

The "abstinence-only" devotees hide behind such attitudes when learning or considering contraceptives. Thus, they're ill-prepared to actually contend with the consequences of their unforeseen "throes of passion" experiences.

These 'programs' are but another instance where reality is far different from the Ozzie and Harriet (Norman Rockwell) mythology ("faith-based") indoctrination. When a social 'program' isn't firmly grounded in reality and floats on a cloud of woulda-shoulda-coulda posturing, it's a preordained failure.

There are no coat-hangers in the mythical "anti-choice" closet. The "inconvenient" facts of real life are ignored when painting the American Gothic context for cloud-cuckoo-land programs and policies.

[Colorado Blue]

10. People were more likely to remain abstinent until marriage

back in the day when little boys and girls got married at puberty. To partners arranged FOR them.

Whoa - maybe I should keep my mouth shut, they might get an IDEA.

[TahitiNut]

11. Really? Who says? The makers of "bundling boards"??

:eyes:

[Colorado Blue]

15. Good point:)

[VegasWolf]

36. Hell, even I could remain abstinent until I was 8 years old! n/t

[MADem]

43. Heh, heh!!!

Get out the drill, and that special bit!!!

Where there's a will, there's always a way!

[TahitiNut]

47. That's why Pine was so popular.

Knotholes. :evilgrin:

[MADem]

49. Ohhhh, you are an evil pilgrim, you are !!! n/t

[NashVegas]

51. Call Me Dumb. I Had to Look Up 'Bundling Board' (look what I found!)

" 60% of all Puritan brides were already pregnant. "

http://www.beyondbooks.com/chat/1999/berkinarchive.asp

[TahitiNut]

52. There ya go. I've found there are some eons-long myths.

(1) The notion of Puritan chastity. (Bullshit.)
(2) The myth of Elizabethan morality. (Bullshit.)
(3) The myth that women don't often have orgasms. (Well, I must have been doing something right.) :eyes:



Perhaps some younger DUers/lurkers aren't aware of #3. Well, I'm old enough to remember when that one was in its last days. It WAS a common belief. Fancy that.)

[SHRED]

13. When are the bushies going to fund...

a "Rabid Christians stop having sex with your own kids" program?

[Wright Patman]

16. Democrats will drive more voters away

by ridiculing the abstinence programs.

People want to believe these things work, just as people still want to believe Iraq was stockpiling WMDs and behind 9-11.

So what if they don't live the fundy program. They'd like for you to, and will continue to vote in such a way as to cause you maximum discomfort.

You cannot win a "reality-based" campaign when the target audience is not based in reality. More than 59 million Americans have told us that reality is not for them. They are "faith-based" and so cannot be swayed by rational arguments or evidence.

Hypocrisy is the homage that vice pays to virtue.

[Rose Siding]

23. If you have stats that show 59 million are behind abstinence only programs

I'd like to see them.

Bush is the only one that thinks the vote was a mandate for all his programs.

[Wright Patman]

25. It was an "either / or" election

as it always is. There is no "third way" allowed.

Kerry didn't even talk about this issue so far as I know. He knows what I just said is true. At the margin, it drives more voters away. Don't try to figure it out. Just stay off the topic. It is the GOP's natural turf and they'd love for you to spend all your time there.

People are not based in reality anymore in this country. Their teenagers could be having a big orgy in their backyard pool and they would pretend not to notice. And it certainly would not affect their vote for "either" Bush over "or" Kerry.

[donco6]

31. Alternative?

"You cannot win a "reality-based" campaign when the target audience is not based in reality."

So what's the alternative? We both wage "unreality" campaigns?

[area51]

69. "More than 59 million Americans"

"More than 59 million Americans have told us that reality is not for them."

But aren't you assuming that Bush won w/o cheating?


"Prosperity is just around the corner." -- Herbert Hoover
"The economy has turned a corner." -- GW Bush

Herbert Hoover = GW Bush

Neither man cared about the Depression their economic policies created.

[w4rma]

17. They seem to have a *negative* impact. Abortion rates are UP.

Teen pregnancy rates are UP. Kids are having MORE sex, not less. And to make matters worse, that sex is more likely to be unprotected sex, now.

You must EDUCATE kids, not just order them around with "just say no" abstinence-only programs.

[KDLarsen]

29. I don't think they're having more sex..

.. I think they're not being told how to use protection - and more importantly: how to use it correctly.

[VegasWolf]

37. Exactly, don't use condoms because they sometimes fail. n/t

[KDLarsen]

39. Sometimes?

If I remember the report, that some Democratic senators helped created, correctly, some of the "educational material", the kids are being handed these days, says that the holes, that do exists in the condoms, are big enough for HIV virus to pass through - and perhaps even semen too :eyes:

[rainbow4321]

18. They need to take a lesson from UU's...

and send kids to programs like UU's OWL classes. Both my girls went thru the program at our church so I would KNOW that they were INformed and not MISinformed


http://www.uua.org/owl/what.html

Our Whole Lives helps participants make informed and responsible decisions about their sexual health and behavior. It equips participants with accurate, age-appropriate information in six subject areas: human development, relationships, personal skills, sexual behavior, sexual health, and society and culture. Grounded in a holistic view of sexuality, Our Whole Lives provides not only facts about anatomy and human development, but helps participants to clarify their values, build interpersonal skills, and understand the spiritual, emotional, and social aspects of sexuality.

Our Whole Lives covers topics and skills that both parents and students want to have available but schools are less likely to cover. The Kaiser Family Foundation has an interesting report on this subject called "Sex Education in America: A View from Inside the Nation's Classrooms." New national surveys are challenging the convention that Americans are reluctant to have sexual health issues taught in school, the surveys show that most parents, along with educators and students themselves, would expand sex education courses and curriculum.

The Our Whole Lives Values:

Self Worth
Sexual Health
Responsibility
Justice and Inclusivity

up-to-date information and honest, age-appropriate answers to all participants' questions

activities to help participants clarify values and improve decision-making skills

effective group-building to create a safe and supportive peer group

education about sexual abuse, exploitation, and harassment

opportunities to critique media messages about gender and sexuality

acceptance of diversity

encouragement to act for justice

a well designed, teacher-friendly leaders' guide

parent orientation programs that affirm parents as the primary sexuality educators of their children

[Occulus]

21. No sex until marriage?

Gays can't get married. How long until gays can't have sex?

How long until it's illegal for two men to live together?

How long until it's possible to be fired for that?

And people at work wonder why I'm stressed. Sheesh- I feel like I have a BIG ol' target on my back.

As for the OP, well... we said so, didn't we? We bloody said so.

[LiberallyInclined]

30. OP?

not all abbreviations are recognized by all...
what's "OP"?

[Occulus]

32. Original Post n/t (no text) ;)

[VegasWolf]

38. What about two women, even the fundies can't object to a little

girl-on-girl action.

[Plaid Adder]

48. It's already legal to fire someone for being gay, in most states.

I just want to point this out because it's a common misconception:

Many Americans believe that it's illegal to fire people just for being gay, because they believe that it's illegal to fire someone for any discriminatory reason. It is true that because of various forms of federal legislation, it is illegal to fire people for reasons of race, religion, sex, age, whistleblowing, to prevent their pensions from vesting, and so on.

However, there is no federal legislation that makes it illegal to fire someone over sexual orientation. For this reason, if you don't belong to a union, and you don't have a contract with your employer that specifies that you can't be terminated without cause, then you are what's called "employed at will," and that's your employer's will, not yours. If you're employed at will, you can be fired for being gay. You can also be fired for wearing a funny hat, or for telling the boss his butt looks fat in those slacks, or for any other reason that's not been specifically made illegal by federal legislation.

That's why the GBLT community has been fighting for ENDA (the Employment Non-Discrimination Act), which *would* make it illegal to discriminate against gay people. However, the chances of that passing any time soon are not good.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[Tyrone Slothrop]

91. "Employed at will" status varies from state to state

I believe. I'm not an expert, but I work at a small law firm. I had a discussion about this one day over lunch with my lawyer-boss. New York state, for instance, has the "employed at will" status. However, I believe that he told me that other states have additional regulations on what a person may or may not be terminated for.

[fortyfeetunder]

24. One twist to this

I don't think abstinence only programs could work if there are not enough alternatives like jobs, extracurricular activities, and other programs for kids to spend in their spare time. If kids are busy doing something constructive with their hands, they won't have time putting their hands in someone else's pants or panties.

Parents and the community have to provide these alternatives and also accept responsibility for preventing sexually charged situations.

It is not enough to tell young hormonally charged adolescents not to have sex but not have some other alternative...

I'd better stop dreaming.

[Kber]

40. I read (but don't have a link)

than kids in the cities tend to loose their virginity later than their suburban counterparts. Maybe because there's more to do? Anyone else read that or did I dream it up?

[fortyfeetunder]

42. That might be true

When urban areas lose funding for recreation, after school programs, and extracurricular activities, kids have more free time available. Coupled with some parents working while kids are not in school, therefore they aren't supervised, creating a recipe for potential sexual activity, not to mention drug abuse and crime.

[American Tragedy]

74. But the post said that suburban kids lose their virginity SOONER

than their urban counterparts.

[roseBudd]

45. It only takes 5 minutes to have sex, I was doing it when I was 14

[TrogL]

92. I pity your partner

[roseBudd]

95. He was 14 also, thats probably why it only took 5 minutes

and yes I was raised not to

[fasttense]

26. We should do what the Puritans and our founding fathers did.

When the girl got pregnant, they got married, simple. Despite what you would like to believe about the sexual behavior of our ancestors, they were having sex as often as they could get away with it. The only difference today is that if the man decides not to marry the girl (which was the true disgrace not the pregnancy), the girl is not shunned and condemned.

[mbperrin]

27. Well sure, you'd want someone raising children who

didn't want anything to do with them, wouldn't we? And every child (who, after all, made the decision to come into the world) deserves to live in a household where his or her mother is demonized by the community.

Seems fair, don't it?

[rodeodance]

28. it the Repugs in your bedroom that is repulsive--they are the

ones who cry about big gov. yet when it comes to 'morals' they fill the room!!

[MountainLaurel]

50. Not always

Recently read "A Midwife's Tale," which details journal entries from a midwife in Maine circa 1780-1820. There was more than one case of unmarried pregnant women who didn't marry -- occasionally because the father was already married.

Another source I read a few years ago talked about infanticide in that era.

[ihelpu2see]

33. and yet the # of abortions has gone up during the first

4 years of bush. while they went down over the 8 years of the Clinton admin.???

Condoms!!! Condoms!!! this should be the mantra to keep teen safe and not pregnant.

[PunkPop]

34. What!?! The Dallas Whoring News running a story contradicting

the Bush party line right on the front page of the Sunday edition! Wonders never cease. I guess they couldn't ignore it since it came from Texas A&M. This will have all the religiofundierightwing nutcases panties in a wad.

[HockeyMom]

44. No sex until marriage?

Niece and her husband WERE 35 and 40 when they married. NO SEX until then? They are joking, right? Or maybe, they are pushing for 18 year olds to marry just out of HS (JUST TO HAVE SEX) and not get an education, OR A GOOD JOB? Get married and make babies, you serfs. We need more SOLDIERS to be born.

[rainbow4321]

46. It's between elections...it's the only time they 'fess up to stuff

They are in their reality mode that comes between repuke elections....a few weeks ago, they ran an article called "Are Texans Mean?"..it bitched about and referred to all the program/service cutting and price raising that gets passed w/ our state programs when our REPUKE state lawmakers get together every 2 yrs...you know, the same repukes that the Whoring News ENDORSES every election year. Someone wrote a LTTE calling them on it..telling them that they had NO fucking right complaining about the bad stuff that is happening down here since the paper consistantly endorses Bush and his ilk <and state level repukes> EVERY time and it is these FOOLS who pass the stuff the paper bitches about. The writer told them if they wanted better things to happen to Texans, they needed to start endorsing Dems and put them back in charge of the state...in the meanwhile, until they do so, the Whoring News staff need to STFU.

[ultraist]

53. Faith based ideas defy FACT and reason once again!

The majority of research shows, that sex edu classes that teach safe sex do NOT cause teens to have sex earlier.

That 131 million could be invested much more effectively if they considered the FACTS and the REALITY we are dealing with.

Someone posted an article here recently that cited the countries with the most liberal abortion laws and the most intensive sex edu/safe sex programs have the LOWEST abortion rates.

WHY the fuck do they ignore the FACTS? Promoting their religious agenda is doing HARM to our teens and helping to spread AIDS and cause unwanted pregnancies. Teen pregnancy rates are starting to increase for the first time in DECADES thanks to Bush's abstinence programs.

A business would not make such stupid decisions. They would consider the FACTS when taking a calculated risk. Why are our social programs based on a religious agenda rather than desired OUTCOMES?

[leftchick]

54. Texas Teens Increased Sex After Abstinence Program

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050131/hl_nm/health_abstinence_texas_dc

HOUSTON (Reuters) - Abstinence-only sex education programs, a major plank in President Bush (news - web sites)'s education plan, have had no impact on teenagers' behavior in his home state of Texas, according to a new study.


Despite taking courses emphasizing abstinence-only themes, teenagers in 29 high schools became increasingly sexually active, mirroring the overall state trends, according to the study conducted by researchers at Texas A&M University.


"We didn't see any strong indications that these programs were having an impact in the direction desired," said Dr. Buzz Pruitt, who directed the study.


The study was delivered to the Texas Department of State Health Services, which commissioned it.

[brainshrub]

55. And despite being scientifically proven not to work,

thanks to faith-based grant funding, the "Let's Talk" abstinence program in Anchorage AK got $281,149.

http://www.thememoryhole.org/pol/faith_based_2003.htm

Lot's of other goodies on this page that will make your blood boil. Conservatives can't be trusted with money... they only spend money on things they understand: Violence and religion.

[Caoimhe]

56. Bush will refuse to cut funding

or admit the failure of this program. What a farce! It is amazing the arrogance and ignorance of the people in this administration. It isn't really NEWS that these abstinence-only programs don't work. They are a black hole for your and my tax dollars.

Bush has never been successful in his attempts to regulate teen behavior. When he pushed forth his "parental notification" for teen girls to get abortions in Texas, suddenly there were more dumpster babies than ever. What a joke the chimp is.

When will America wake up?

[Bake]

57. Just makes 'em want to do it more

As if teenagers need any encouragement ...

Any parent of a teenager already knew this.

Bake

[NYC Liberal]

58. As if we didn't know this was going to happen.

Setting aside the fact that if Bush endorses it, it's probably a bad idea, kids are going to be even more wanting to do it if you make it a taboo.

[VegasWolf]

59. bush says "just say no", Nike says "Just Do It", who to believe? n/t

[Kolesar]

60. Who has the billion dollar advertising budget?

Who has the message?

[VegasWolf]

61. "Just Say No" is just wrong on so many counts. n/t

[SoCalDem]

62. If you turn the lights out, Jesus can't see you

..The facts are these:

Teens want sex
Teens HAVE sex
Teens LIE about sex
Parents of teens think THEIR kids are chaste

always has been...always WILL be...

amen !

[Sanity Claws]

63. The headline is wrong

It sounds like the program has indeed had an impact on teenagers' behavior -- for the worse. That should be the headline.

[donheld]

65. Hormones scream "just do it"

These fools teach abstinence. Hormones always win. This administration may as well face it and prepare the kids for it.

[Merope215]

66. Futility? You think??

My friends and I all went through abstinence-only sex education in the Georgia public schools. Hasn't kept any of us (unmarried) college students from having sex, some with appropriate information and protection, some without. We also felt pissed off and betrayed to realize that the information our health teachers--whom we trusted--had given us was not, in fact, accurate, valid, true, or remotely based on science.

Why aren't more teachers speaking up about the fact that they're being forced to teach crap that isn't true? I can't imagine any of my English teachers being cool with teaching us that "apple" was a verb. IMO, this has always been one aspect of this ridiculous program that should be getting more attention from teacher's unions and anyone concerned with, you know, truth.

[ElectroPrincess]

89. Exactly!

As a mother, I'm already seeing the hormones begin to surge in my pre-teen and her buddies. The most important aspect to sex education that you can help to instill in your children IMO is a healthy dose of personal self respect.

We can't get around the fact that women/girls are the gatekeepers and the one's ultimately paying the largest price at the prospect of an unwanted pregnancy. Specifically, girls properly educated in the aspects of self respect AND Birth Control will make the morally right decisions ONLY when they develop an healthy dose of self-esteem through: 1) parental attention and encouragement; 2) academic success; and 3) involvement in healthy peer-group after school and summer activities such as team sports (soft ball, basket ball, track, soccer, field hockey, La Cross etc.)

When girls are taught that they have a right to an identity beyond that of wife and mother, they will look forward to their futures and thus, will be able to at least channel their energies and desires on positive character development ... and continuing increases in self-respect.

Boys must be taught to respect women/girls as equals. That's why I hate sports terms like "girly men" and "pu**y". I'm friends with a second degree black belt instructor in Tae Kwon Do at my daughter's karate school. You wouldn't know by looking at this petite woman that she can seriously debilitate or kill an attacker in a matter of seconds if her life was threatened.

As a society, Americans need to respect all forms of strength and dignity as POWERFUL. Not just the capability to kick the crap out of the other person in a boxing ring.

With our children we must FIRST teach both boys and girls to value and nurture all aspects of their person, body and soul. That physical closeness should not be any more than an expression of self, not some sort of pay-off in expectation of love and attention.

In a long winded way, I'm attempting to convey that our kids - can be depended on - to make DUMB decisions regarding sex from time to time. It's not totally their fault because their hormones are surging. We should not condemn them but always keep the door open for conversation and a respect for their privacy. Now that's not to say that I wouldn't tell my kid, "hey, that really wasn't very smart of you" if I believe she acted out in a way that is not healthy for her person.

However, if kids are always kept aware of their goals in life and respect for themselves and others, they will not make the TRAGIC mistakes all the fundies get all angry and "self-righteous" about with people who they have no business to control.

On Edit: I don't believe our schools have a RIGHT to teach moral values, THAT is the parents duty. These education courses are bogus. I've talked with my daughter about some of the bizarro stuff they're peddling and we giggle and laugh about it. She knows some aspects of our society are really warped, i.e., fundy driven sex-ed.

[Merope215]

94. I completely agree.

I don't like phrases like "girly men" either. Self-respect, respect for other people, and access to accurate information are the only things that are going to keep people from doing stupid things, whether it's unprotected sex or anything else.

I also think the current atmosphere of making teenagers feel like sex is shameful and something they need to hide from and feel bad about is dangerous. If the fundies would get out of the schools and let sexuality be talked about in accurate terms - something natural and great when you're informed and responsible, but something that could also get you in a lot of trouble if you're not ready for it or mature about it - it might help prevent a lot of problems. In my experience, people are much more willing to seek out and follow advice from informed sources if they don't feel ashamed about it to begin with.

[tinrobot]

72. Abstinence programs are not about sex

Like all "faith-based initiatives," they are political payola to reward the GOP's conservative and religious supporters with millions of your hard earned tax dollars.

Everyone knows abstinence doesn't work. But it's a very handy way to funnel your money into the coffers of the people who will give some of that same money back to the GOP next election cycle.

[Moderator]

75. Kick

Kick

[AllegroRondo]

76. Texas Teens Increased Sex After Abstinence Program

HOUSTON (Reuters) - Abstinence-only sex education programs, a major plank in President Bush (news - web sites)'s education plan, have had no impact on teenagers' behavior in his home state of Texas, according to a new study.

Despite taking courses emphasizing abstinence-only themes, teenagers in 29 high schools became increasingly sexually active, mirroring the overall state trends, according to the study conducted by researchers at Texas A&M University.

<snip>

The study showed about 23 percent of ninth-grade girls, typically 13 to 14 years old, had sex before receiving abstinence education. After taking the course, 29 percent of the girls in the same group said they had had sex.

Boys in the tenth grade, about 14 to 15 years old, showed a more marked increase, from 24 percent to 39 percent, after receiving abstinence education



http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=571&e=7&u=/nm/health_abstinence_texas_dc

[Maestro]

Abstinence means repression

of normal biological desires. It is totally unhealthy. Let's have a frank discussion of sex and remove its taboo. Let's talk about its consequences if kids engage in sex and let them make an informed decision. I don't want my son or my daughter running off and having sex but if they do, I want them to know how to do it safely as hard as it is to accept the fact that my kids may want to do this one day.

[WildClarySage]

I agree, and I don't want my child feeling embarassed and ashamed, either.

[Benhurst]

The Bible has proven to be a very good tool for abstinence,

if the young woman holds it tightly between her knees.

[BlueEyedSon]

DENY DENY DENY... it's faith-based everything!

Please, republicans... come back and join the reality-based community...

[NewJeffCT]

77. I'm shocked

Telling a teen they can't do something and expecting them to obey! Who'd a thunk it?

[renaissanceguy]

83. It's funny how the teen pregnancy rates are high in the South.

I guess fundie church isn't as good as they thought it was.

http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.16778995

[WildClarySage]

78. Why do they keep saying "no impact" when abstinence only

clearly has a negative impact?

[Norquist Nemesis]

81. That's what struck me

It stands out like a sore thumb! The study finds it has a definite impact, and not the intended results.

[chelsea0011]

79. F*uck this abstinence stuff. We know what's fun.

[jeff30997]

80. Ahhh! The forbiden fruit is so tempting.

[renaissanceguy]

84. Yeah, next they'll blame women

for these problems... because it's in the bible. Eve gave Adam the apple, remember?

Sheez.............

http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.16779191

[htuttle]

82. Not surprising

Looking back at the sex-ed classes I had in school, there's nothing less erotic than a highly clinical description of sex delivered by the school nurse -- especially the condom usage part.

The mere memory of that classroom discussion takes the wind out of my sails to this day.

[AllegroRondo]

Except this program skips the condom usage part

[noonwitch]

You are so right

Growing up in the UCC:

We had retreats in our youth group, and one year, despite my objections, we had sexuality as a theme. It actually was rather fun in the long run, but it was terribly embarrassing to discuss sex with the minister and his wife, no matter how hip they were.

There were some hilarious moments, however. One girl asked our minister about whether a man's size really was important to a woman's pleasure, he responded "Why don't we let my wife answer that one".

Planned Parenthood provided a package that included different kinds of birth control devices for our observation. There were condoms, a diaphram, some sample pill wheels, etc. One of the things in it was an IUD that was inside the applicator. It was so that you could see how the doctor inserted it. One of the honor society nice girls just couldn't put it down, and kept playing with it. It think it was called a "Lippe's Loop" or something like that.

Still, the whole weekend was so embarrassing for me that I wanted nothing to do with sex for years.

[renaissanceguy]

That was sex ed...

and I'm sure you remember it and know how to use a condom well because of it.

Texas and other states (mostly South) support abstinence-only programs, which do NOT mention contraception AT ALL.

http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.16778943

[BOSSHOG]

1. Southern States

RED States which gave their electoral votes to bush, teach abstinence. I guess that explains their high rates of teen pregnancy and incest. Throw in divorce and spousal abuse and you have a rollicking christian conservative Nirvana. No wonder they hate liberals.

[jackster]

85. well of course!

they're taking cues from their favorite twins!

[davhill]

87. Teenagers have adapted

Oral Sex doesn't count. A girl can still say she is saving herself for marriage if she gives her BF a BJ a couple times a week. Everybody is happy.

[enki23]

88. this part is really damned funny to me, for some reason

One program technique has been to try to bolster students' self-esteem, based on the theory that self-confident teenagers would not have sex. Those programs, which sometimes do not even mention sex, have shown no effect, Pruitt said.

i don't know about all of you, but the kids in high school who had all the self esteem were, mostly, the same ones who were having sex. little seems to bolster an adolescent's self esteem more than knowing other people want to fuck them. in any case, the idea that it's only the depressed, loner, outsiders who are doing all this fucking just *HAD* to come from some idiot fundie christian who is just *way* to wrapped in his or her "jesus stars!" youth group, or some such.

and wasn't this whole "self esteem" bugaboo one of the sillinesses to come out of the *liberal* academic environment? since then, we've found out that bullies and assholes actually have *great* self esteem, in general. lack of self esteem doesn't make you a bad person, it just makes you feel that way. but that's one of the things about us liberal academics. generally, we can be swayed by evidence.

[ElectroPrincess]

90. I agree with part of what you say ...

I was a cheerleader and later in a sorority. It was great to be considered attractive. And yes, you bet I was sexually active as a teen and young adult but no more than the norm.

My point above is that some girls would truly benefit from more parental encouragement to plan for their future in the work place. If a teenage girl is looking forward to attending college or an exchange program, she'll make sure to use proper birth control.

My cure was that I didn't care much for young kids. So when I saw some "little one" throwing a tantrum in the grocery store, I'd immediately say to myself, "Don't forget to take your PILL every morning!" Yikes! Now those behavioral reminders work like a charm. :-)

[NickB79]

96. Yeah, tell me about it

I remember many nights sitting around with my quarterback-of-the-football-team buddy watching movies and playing Playstation as he complained about how he could never get laid, and how I was so lucky I was a playa-nerd with the ladies :eyes: