NY Daily News: Dean's howling to lead DNC ("I hate the republicans.")

[Renew Deal]

BY MAGGIE HABERMAN
DAILY NEWS CITY HALL BUREAU

HOWARD DEAN, THE favorite to be the next head of the Democratic National Committee, made his case in midtown yesterday, promising to make his party operate more like the GOP - at least when it comes to elections.
"I hate the Republicans and everything they stand for, but I admire their discipline and their organization," the failed presidential hopeful told the crowd at the Roosevelt Hotel, where he and six other candidates spoke at the final DNC forum before the Feb. 12 vote for chairman.

But Dean said the Democrats should not change their beliefs to be "Republican lite."

"We can talk about our faith, but we cannot change our faith," he said, echoing themes he sounded in his presidential bid. "We need to be people of conviction."

http://www.nydailynews.com/01-30-2005/news/wn_report/story/276020p-236422c.html

[LoZoccolo]

1. All this does is stroke off the tactless wing of the Democratic Party.

Show me one thing it does to get us to win. Remember, we have to take votes from the Republicans.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

3. It shows that democrats are different from republicans.

Instead of blured lines, we have distinct lines. Instead of hiding behing republican-lite we are showing that we are Democrats. We are the Democratic Party that stand up for values and we will not hide. Some people say we should be more meek and be more republican lite... I'd say no more to this nonsense and take back our party from the DLCERS and be true Democrats.

I hope you agree LoZoccolo and embrace reform.

[LoZoccolo]

12. No it doesn't.

All the Republicans have to do is lie about their agenda, and then say Dean stands against it, and we're fucked. Now if he'd said I hate _____ about their plan for _____ because it will do _____ and we need to do _____, that would be different, and drawing a good distinction, and wouldn't be pundit bait all over the AM dial tommorow.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

22. So what can the republicans lie about?

You mean the Republicans can say that they are a woman's right to choose and Howard Dean is against it? Man they would be laughed out of town lol. So are you saying that republicans will say that they are against the Iraq war and Dean is for it? That's laughable the Republicans would have no credibility. Are you talking about that Republicans will say that they are the party who support Gays and Dean is against them. You're not making sense man...If that ever DID happen the Republicans would be in RUINS. Their conservative base would flee the Republican party.

[LoZoccolo]

30. No.

You're cherry-picking a few ideas that would look ineffective if they said it. They won't do that, because they're not trying to defend Dean as you are. They'll say they stand for a bunch of abstract things like:

a strong America
democracy in the Middle East
removing brutal dictators
personal economic freedom
moral values

Why couldn't you figure this out yourself?

[ProudToBeLiberal]

46. Why couldn't you be more clearer

If we're talking about abstract terms...Hmmm that's why we have to fram the debate. But what you're saying is the Dean should quiet down. But buy doing that you're muting the message. And the only way to fight the republican Machines is head to head. What is moral values? Is it having people come out of proverty? Healthcare for all? It's how you frame the debate. what YOU"RE saying is that republicans are the only ones capable of framing the debate. But inorder to counter the republican Machine we need someone who's blunt, bold, and out spoken like Dean.

[LoZoccolo]

49. I'm not saying Dean should quiet down.

It seems to be your "schtick" to accuse someone of saying something they didn't, because this is the third time I've seen you do it, and not just to me.

You can reply to this message and not do that, and I might consider replying back.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

51. Like you said before, " You still miss it."

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

71. woah even if I die?

that's cruel. I'm still a human being you know who has feelings. I would care if you died...nobody should die at an early age nobody that's just not right man. What if I get captured by some kidnappers, you wouldn't care then? That really hurts my feelings :(.

[aikido15]

56. I agree...

Screaming "I hate Republicans" was not a smart move for a politician who hopes to win votes from the the people he is insulting. :eyes:

[NYCGirl]

58. He screamed it now? Sounds to me like he said it cool and calmly.

Edited to add:

If you read the entire quote, "I hate the Republicans and everything they stand for, but I admire their discipline and their organization." it's obvious he was not talking about the rank and file Republicans, but the leaders.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

60. he was being sarcastic :P

nt

[aikido15]

It's not whether he screamed or not...

It's what he said. Not cool.

[pokercat999]

113. Wrong

very cool we need someone with guts.

[aikido15]

186. It's going to take more than Dean..

to save the Democratic party...like a miracle!

[pokercat999]

187. Ya gotta start somewhere. eom

[Carolab]

104. FYI, even a top conservative, Richard Viguerie, hates the "Republicans".

He as much as says so every time he speaks, such as on Jon Stewart's show the other night, talking about his book.

He distinguishes between the people in power right now and true conservatives. Every true conservative knows the difference.

So I imagine they understand full well what Dean is talking about--the "Republicans" who are in power right now are gross distortions of their own party, much as the "centrists" in our party are gross distortions of our real base.

[Sterling]

125. Attention: we will not get votes from Republicans.

Plz get this through your head. These people are not looking for the same things we are. the sooner you and others realize that the sooner we can build a party that might actually accomplish something again.

[LoZoccolo]

139. Yes we can.

Time after time I hear people complaining that working-class Republicans vote against their own interests. You do not change that by saying you hate them.

[okieinpain]

77. I might be wrong but that one sentence was music to my ears.

" i hate republicians"

[Zhade]

32. Consider the source. Do we know he DIDN'T say anything like that?

NT!

[LoZoccolo]

He may have.

But he said this other thing when he should have been saying something like this.

Are you serious that you didn't get that?

[Zhade]

40. "Are you serious that you didn't get that?"

Nice condescension.

No, what I think you don't get is that you can't be sure this is what he said. This is the NY Daily News, not a reputable paper.

EDIT: Daily News, not Sun. D'oh.

[Renew Deal]

4. It fires up the base.

Which is going to work harder for someone that is as committed as they are. I hate everything they stand for too. That doesn't make me tactless.

[Dickie Flatt]

7. Do you also hate them personally?

Because that is what Howard is saying.

[Renew Deal]

13. I don't think he's saying that.

And I'm not sure how you get from what he said. I think he's saying that he hates them ideologically. Believe me, the pukes hate you ideologically and personally. They have had the success that they have had because they hate us more than we hate them.

[Dickie Flatt]

19. How I read his comment

"I hate the Republicans and everything they stand for."

It is two separate parts. "I hate the Republicans," which said to me I hate them personally. Then, "everything they stand for," which is the ideological hatred part.

And some Republicans may well hate me. But not all. I'm not about to bring myself down to their level and turn this into a game of who hates who the most.

[Renew Deal]

24. It's not about who hates who.

It's about commitment. Their dislike for you and everything they stand for makes them work harder than you/me because we don't dislike them as much as they dislike us. Feel free to sub in hate for dislike.

[Dickie Flatt]

27. I dislike them plenty

And I work damn hard. I do, however, think that it is better to be motivated by hope and optimism for the Democratic agenda than to be motivated by hatred/dislike of the opposition.

I'm not in this game because I want to demolish the conservative movement. I'm here because I want to make America a better place by advancing a positive Democratic agenda.

[Renew Deal]

39. I'm sure you are.

I even agree with you. I'm just trying to give you a perception of the other side. Compare us to freeperville. We make fun of them for being illiterate inbreds with missing teeth. They talk about putting us in concentration camps and shooting libruls in the head. It's a big difference.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

Hmm so you like how Republicans use smear tactics?

So you like how Ann Coulter calls Liberals treasonous. You like the way Rush Limbaugh say conservatives should go beat up liberals? If you do man say bluntly. Have some guts and say it boldly and plainly that you like it when they talk about max cleland being unpatriotic.

[Dickie Flatt]

28. Do not misrepresent my words. I never said that.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

36. you implied however indirectly.

[Dickie Flatt]

Explain how.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

52. oops I misinterpreted of what you said. sorry

Sorry I was a little bit hot-headed. I love Dean...sorry

[Sterling]

126. Maybe he does. I hope so. They hate us.

I am tired of supporting pols who want to be friends with the opposition.

[SirNot]

189. No

It is not about us vs. them. That's what lost the last election. That's why this country is so deeply divided right now. It's about getting together and respecting one another. Period. Hate begets hate. Understand that in this country to get anything done you have to work with the other side. It's not black and white. There's a lot of gray in between, and you need to be able to dip into that Grey to get anything done. you don't do that by marginalizing them.

SNAITF

[Name removed]

153. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dickie Flatt]

178. Because I like it

[Zhade]

37. No, that's what the media is telling us he said.

As noted upthread, consider the source.

[stillcool]

41. The very definition of 'republican' in present day is 'hateful'

and I very much dislike those that con and spew hate. I owe no one an apology for a feeling I own. How I act on those feelings may or may not have good or bad consequences. It is time to take off the gloves, and Howard Dean is the ONE guy who can and will.

[SirNot]

190. And yet

You are spewing hate as well. A bit self loathing are you? Your argument is one that could easilly be used by the other side.

You need to shed the veil of labels and understand that we are all humans and must learn how to get along with one another.

SNAITF

[ldf]

136. do you hate them personally?

more and more by the day.

i used to try to differentiate between the individuals, and what they did as a party. i can no longer do that.

i will not knowingly reward those who would destroy this country. and that is exactly what they will end up doing, if allowed.

i want to hear dean scream loud, and often.

the individual republicans think there is no choice, but dean will tell them their options, and they just might come over to our side.

the so-called democrat leaders of our party will only try to out republican the republicans.

some choice.

[LoZoccolo]

9. Yes, all it does is stroke off the tactless wing of the Democratic Party.

That's exactly what I said.

Now all the Republicans have to do tommorow is say "well if he hates that I stand for freedom" or any other number of abstract concepts they use to try to cloud their agenda, and the Republicans get to dig in to their side, and we get to stammer around trying to explain that's not what he really meant, and Dean continues to be greatly inept at handling the soundbite culture (which is funny because in that article he's saying he'll be able to do as well as them, while walking right into something they're gonna feast on).

Funny you left out half of his quote, too.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

11. Woah you're saying that the democrats who want reform are "tactless?"

WTF...man no wonder democrats are loosing elections, with that kind of attitude. YOu just accuse the majority of the democratic party of being the tactless faction...are you in the wrong party?

[LoZoccolo]

15. No, I'm not.

Start by not putting words in my mouth and you might get an answer. If you aren't so incurious.

[Renew Deal]

21. I also think you're saying that.

I don't think it's tactless to "hate" the republicans. As you may have noticed, the non-Dean methods haven't been winning us that many elections.

[LoZoccolo]

26. First of all, you can't say that about all non-Dean methods.

And yes, it's tactless to say you hate people that you are trying to get to vote for you. I don't know how else to put it, or where to go to elaborate on it. "Hey I hate you and the reasons for what you do, all of them, you should be voting for me." Won't fly.

[Renew Deal]

That's funny.

I get your point. :thumbsup:

[LoZoccolo]

38. I like 90% of what Dean does.

I understand why people here like him, too, especially since I think he's taking leadership on a lot of things no one else is doing. That's why I get so disappointed when things like this happen...you can only get disappointed in someone you think has greater potential.

[Arkansas Gazette]

70. So what?

Dean isn't running for president anymore; he's running for DNC chair. That job description is to fire up the Democratic base and raise cash, not to appeal to the moderates and undecideds. That's the job for the candidates and their campaign teams. Besides, what Dean said isn't that far afield from some of the things Terry said.

[LoZoccolo]

83. Wrong.

That job description is to fire up the Democratic base and raise cash, not to appeal to the moderates and undecideds.

Nope. The first part is partly right, though.

Besides, what Dean said isn't that far afield from some of the things Terry said.

And yet Terry may have been able to say them without them becoming right-wing propaganda so easily.

[On the Road]

122. Yes, But Terry McAuliffe Was Unable to Say Those Things

with the same conviction that Dean does. It's not just the words, it's what's behind them. People can tell the difference.

[Sterling]

128. "people that you are trying to get to vote for you" listen up

If you are looking for Puke votes you have already lost. I am tired of the losers game people in this party insist on playing.

[LoZoccolo]

138. Excuse me?

I don't understand how we're supposed to win in your scenario, outside of vote suppression, which is more difficult for us to do than them.

If it involves getting tons of non-voters to vote I'm through with listening to that one - it's an unreliable strategy.

Reagan, on the other hand, took a lot of Democratic votes, and that's considered a winning strategy. And so did Bush*.

[CTLawGuy]

152. you can't confuse

independents who vote Republican for "Republicans". He's referring to the Republican leadership and base, not those who occasionally vote Republican. They don't self-identify as Republican and thus wouldn't be offended.

[LoZoccolo]

158. Dean himself has said he's trying to attract moderate Republicans...

...to his movement. This was in the video that was distributed to DFA meetups in December.

Besides, even if they're not registered or do not self-identify as Republicans, there were still reasons they voted that way. Dean's comment still rubs off on them in that respect.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

29. Like you said before, "You miss the point completely."

[Renew Deal]

16. One of the biggest problems with the Democratic party is

we worry too much about what the pukes are going to say/think. BTW, you do make some good points. I just don't care what the pukes are going to say.

[LoZoccolo]

23. You should.

What the pukes said in the eighties and nineties is what led to our situation today. We should stand for something and not cower, I'd agree, but it has to be something other than just rage, which was a big critique of how Dean came across that got overlooked or dismissed here a lot.

[Renew Deal]

31. The rage part is not one of our best.

I think Dean can do something worthwhile with that. I think he can harness the rage into something tangible. I don't think anyone else knows how to deal with it. Dean's campaign made so many people active including me indirectly. I think he has ideas on how to put me and others to work.

Have you ever tried dealing with the party? I have volunteered and volunteered and volunteered some more and I don't even get calls returned. Why? Because the grassroots people are not a priority. I know it's not just me because I talk to other committee people in my area and they have the same problem. Dean is the only one that is serious about changing that.

[Sterling]

129. If you actually paid attention to what Pukes said in the 80's and 90's

You would never pretend that "hate" is not a very effective tool in politics. The fact is I do hate republicans for what they have done. They have earned our hate. I am not fucking Gandhi and neither are the people who want to see a stop to the Puke crusade on the world.

Dean speaks for us. If we have a leader like that we may win elections but we will at least certainly start competing in the market of ideas. Right now we are just pretending the pukes are right about everything and we can just do it a little better. That is just a losers mindset.

[LoZoccolo]

140. First you bring up the Republican strategy as effective...

...then you say:

Right now we are just pretending the pukes are right about everything and we can just do it a little better. That is just a losers mindset.

I've addressed the rest in another post.

And I care fuck-all about how the Republicans make people on our side "feel" and how people feel justified in throwing a counterproductive spaz. I want us to "do" what it takes to win.

[mazzarro]

48. I guess you mean the democratic wing of the democratic party

is the "tactless wing" of the party! Yea - we are the that wing of the party and all we have to say is you and the "tactful wing of the party" a.k.a. the DCL'ers will no longer shut us up. Dean gets my vote is he did indeed say that - "I hate the reThugs and everything they stand for"!

[LoZoccolo]

50. Nope, not my point at all.

Apparent from my other posts, which you haven't read, or are acting like you didn't.

[ElectroPrincess]

61. I'm flattered to be called brusque and tactless ...

We're backed against the corner and it's the 9th Inning with three outs. Dammit, I'm ready for smears and tactless insults to the repukes.

Behaving like "Debutantes in pink tutus" has only brought our present Democratic representatives increased insults and disdain.

Bring it on Republicans! We can figuratively "body slam" your party with insults even better than your right wing religious nutcases.

You just have to want to win more than anything ... and winning means our civil rights intact. IMHO, it's worth getting "nasty" when in a pinch.

[LoZoccolo]

63. Please take the time to read my other posts.

And avoid getting on one side or another of an oversimplified dichotomy.

[ElectroPrincess]

72. That's your mistake Lo

I'm not just addressing you. If you want to win back our Democracy, one must be willing to keep it SIMPLE.

Yes, you have complex thought processes, but that will not WIN any battles for us. We must focus on ONLY attacking the right wingers.

[LoZoccolo]

82. You miss the point.

If you want to win back our Democracy, one must be willing to keep it SIMPLE.

Noooo. Noooo waaaay. The Republicans do nothing simple. Fourty years ago you probably wouldn't have imagined the kind of alliances that the Republicans have been able to forge. Or that you could spread propaganda as effectively as they've been able to within a democracy with a free press. We have to be smart. And smart means seeing that being ninnies and saying you hate the people you're trying to get to vote for you (or even just falling into a trap where they can make you look like you said that) are not your only two options.

[Tacos al Carbon]

111. When and where

will you be voting?

[Sterling]

130. Probably with their checkbook.

I know where my Dem money is going.

[pokercat999]

114. Think about this

We are talking about Merica where elections are won by ADVERTISING and MARKETING your candidate. Tactless works and works very well in advertising. We need more not less of it.

[Sterling]

127. tactless wing of the Democratic Party=DLC

nt

[LoZoccolo]

141. Listen, son...

:boring:

[Minstrel Boy]

5. If you mimic Republicans, voters will stick with the original brand.

You take votes from Republicans by being Democrats.

[LoZoccolo]

10. That's why we should not mimic Republicans.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. But that's not what I was talking about.

[ElectroPrincess]

68. You just don't get it ...

We aren't aping the repukes but fighting "fire with fire." Wake up dammit. Piss and vinegar are required to wake up the sheeple. If we loose after the good fight, then at least we went down swinging.

I'll admit to a visceral hatred for the right wing fundamentalist nutcases who are robbing our beautiful Country of our freedoms and everything we have held dear about being called AMERICANS.

At every opportunity I use MY propaganda because that what it takes to win, i.e., repukes, morons, religious nutcases, freepers, morans, stepford wives, freaks of nature, etc. etc. All's fair because we are in the middle of a political WAR.

[LoZoccolo]

88. Nope.

Read my other posts.

If you want to take out anger, go pound your fists into a pillow or something.

[Dickie Flatt]

6. I agree

[NYCGirl]

34. I can guarantee you when Dick Cheney told campaign audiences that voting

for John Kerry meant that we'd get attacked again, worse than the last time, that the GOP didn't quake in their boots about what we'd think. And that was by far the most unconscionable remark I've ever heard.

[LoZoccolo]

45. And yet Dick Cheney's comment is far more effective and strategic.

Seeing as it is meant to persuade people thinking of voting for John Kerry not to, and I could see it succeeding in some cases, rather than just being a bonk on the head of the other side (or a tug on the cocks of ours).

[NYCGirl]

53. Huh? So we're trying to get the GOP leadership on our side?

BTW, Cheney's remark succeeded in lots of cases, obviously.

[LoZoccolo]

66. Nope.

And that's not what Dean said, or who he said it about.

Can we just talk about what's really going on please? I really don't like to waste my time. There are serious things to be done.

[NYCGirl]

67. Sorry to have wasted your time. But if you read the entire quote,

"I hate the Republicans and everything they stand for, but I admire their discipline and their organization", you'd realize that he was not talking about the guy on the street.

Now go about your serious business. So long.

[aikido15]

69. I understand...

what you are trying to say. A lot of people in here are way too angry and I can't blame them. But it gets to a point where any real discussion is impossible because of it. So many just want to pick fights. Sort of like what the Democratic party has been doing among themselves since the election instead of working together for the common good.:eyes:

[Zhade]

75. See post #42. Dean may have been misquoted, again.

NT!

[Seabiscuit]

97. Written like a true DLC'er.

Still suffering from the delusion that by compromising your principles, moving to the right, trying to "take votes from the Republicans", you can somehow win elections, despite the failures of this strategy in 2000, 2002 and 2004.

[LoZoccolo]

119. The first two? No.

I have no idea how anyone intends to win without the third. You call me delusional, and say I support a losing strategy, yet you offer nothing, and neither do you tell us how it's supposed to work.

[Seabiscuit]

165. "...yet you offer nothing..."

I offer what Dean offers: screw "Rethuglican lite". Stand up for the Democratic party's traditionally "liberal" principles, the principles that once made this a great country. The principles FDR and JFK and RFK stood for.

The DLC's spineless move to the right - ooooo, we don't want to piss off the Repukes, we want to be their friends, we want them to vote for us - has *never* worked and will never work because the Repukes WILL NOT COMPROMISE A THING. I'm amazed this lesson wasn't learned after the 2000 elections. I'm even more amazed this lesson wasn't learned after the 2004 elections. Now it's just about too late and I for one am disgusted and have run out of patience - the Repukes control all four estates - the administrative, legislative, judicial, and media estates.

The *only* way to take our country back is to grow a spine as a party and stand up for our principles. NO MORE COMPROMISE. No more kissing Rethug butt imagining they might like us or we might convert some of them if we're just nice enough and roll over for them like their little puppy dog a thousand more times.

The Democratic party under the DLC leadership has forgotten how to fight. This is a no-holds bar political war going on in this country, and the Bushistas are exporting it around the globe.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

[LoZoccolo]

179. You respond...

I offer what Dean offers: screw "Rethuglican lite".

You start off with a negative, thus letting the Republicans define the agenda as usual for the tactless wing.

Stand up for the Democratic party's traditionally "liberal" principles, the principles that once made this a great country. The principles FDR and JFK and RFK stood for.

Good. We're in agreement then.

The DLC's spineless move to the right - ooooo, we don't want to piss off the Repukes, we want to be their friends, we want them to vote for us - has *never* worked and will never work because the Repukes WILL NOT COMPROMISE A THING.

The first two are not the DLC's agenda. The third one is, but as I said, it makes no sense to talk about how most of the Republicans don't vote for who they should based on the issues they're concerned about unless you want to set them right. A lot of them became "Reagan Democrats" so we'd be taking them back, for one.

And you'll notice the Republicans think strategically when they speak before a wide audience - notice the parade of moderates they had at the convention, and the lack of pro-life rhetoric, and the emphasis on the swing-voter issue of national security.

I'm even more amazed this lesson wasn't learned after the 2004 elections.

We did as good as we could against someone propped up as a protectorate demagogue. 49% against a sitting wartime President is good, and I imagine the best anyone's done.

And you don't explain how Dean could have won instead when Dean was doing worse than Kerry against Bush* in January polling.

The *only* way to take our country back is to grow a spine as a party and stand up for our principles.

Nader? The Green Party? Hey, how come Kucinich only got 1% of the vote? How come Dean lost the primaries?

WARNING: I am not advocating not standing for anything, or even moving to the right. I'm advocating something much more complex. Think hard, and you may figure it out. All I did was point out that simply taking a stand is not an effective strategy. You can do it.

The Democratic party under the DLC leadership has forgotten how to fight.

So have all these checkers players here.

[LoZoccolo]

180. We don't want Republicans to vote for us!

This is a quiz. Match the quote with the person who said it: Dean, or Gephardt (member of the DLC).

I still want to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks.

I don't want to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks. I will win the Democratic nomination because I will be the candidate for guys with American flags in their pickup trucks.

[LoZoccolo]

120. Also, if you want to talk about losing...

...let's talk about how Dean's recklessness towards the beginning of the primaries may have sunk a 25-point lead for him in New Hampshire, and a lead in Iowa.

[LoZoccolo]

121. Also, also, (this one's good)...

...I do recall seeing a video of Dean at the December DFA meetup where he was adressing it's members and he was saying that his movement includes independants and moderate Republicans as well!

You should tell him that that was spoken like a true DLCer.

[Seabiscuit]

167. Calm down. I'd hate to see you suffer a coronary.

I notice you tend to fly off the handle and get your posts deleted by the moderators.

You may not like what I have to say. I can't stomach your DLC message any more. And it sickens me to see there are people out there still falling for it just as much as it sickens me to see people voting for the Shrub.

[LoZoccolo]

177. You completely ignored my post.

Dean said this during video distributed to the December meetup, no?

Why don't you abandon Dean and say he's Republican Lite? The strategy of being nice to the Republicans and trying to get them to vote for us doesn't work, right? So why are you sticking with this namby pamby who wants to attract moderate Republicans to his organization?

[bvar22]

142. We do not NEED to take votes from the Republicans!!!!

The Democrats only NEED to energize a small percentage of the 50Million Americans who don't vote because Nobody Speaks for Them!!!

"Need to take votes from Republicans" is PURE DLC BS!!

[LoZoccolo]

143. If they weren't motivated this election...

...I'm not gonna rely on them.

[bvar22]

148. Maybe if our Candidate spent more

time being a Democrat instead of imitating the republicans, they would see a point in getting to the polls!

[LoZoccolo]

150. Maybe they've made themselves irrelevant.

Sorry, I can't blame them for not sitting around guessing how to make something happen that hasn't happened yet.

[bvar22]

154. Well, spending time , money, and credibility

going after the republican vote sure has worked well for the Democratic Party.

YESSSS!
Lets have MORE of the SAME!!!
Please Sir! May I have Another?!!!

[LoZoccolo]

157. They do it to us and it works for them.

You might be too young to remember "Reagan Democrats", but it's part of the reason that people here complain that working-class Republicans vote against their economic interests. Really what we'd be doing is taking back these voters.

Dean, by his own admission, is trying to get moderate Republicans on his side, which should demonstrate how ham-handed this slip (and I do believe it's a slip - I wonder how disappointed some people here will get if and when he admits this and retracts it) is.

[GetTheRightVote]

2. Yes, after this year's experience I have little respect for the Republican

Party. We must fight them as they fight us, all the way to the poll booth.

I vote for Dean.

:kick:

[RaleighNCDUer]

8. Is this for real?

I can see him saying he hates this adminsitration and everything it stands for, but all Republicans? He is a moderate populist, and I don't think he'd be given to such a blanket statement.

[KissMeKate]

17. poor choice of language on his part.

this will be another reason for people to say he cant be the DNC chair.

Most of the time hes spot on, but I admit, sometimes he puts his foot in his mouth.

[ElectroPrincess]

74. IMO Dean's right on!

I have many right wing family members - albeit I must love them as family, I hate their willful ignorance and enabling of the right wing morons to take away our civil rights and liberties ... all in the name of the Chimperor and his cronies spying on US ... ALL OF US.

Yes, I hate what ALL republicans stand for now because not ONE of them in the congress has the courage to start impeachment procedures on this blatantly CRIMINAL administration.

Dean has both my vote and admiration. Those of you too gutless NOT to fight kindly step out of our way because it's gonna get nasty and insulting. We must fight them *exactly* as they fight us in order to win, i.e., whisper campaigns, personal insults etc.

[KissMeKate]

85. I hear you.

I can barely be civil to the republicans in my life either.

I am a Deaniac all the way. I just think sometimes he says the wrong thing- and even though we need to get downhj and dirty, he needs this position before he can get down and dirty.

Hes a proud man, and I hate to have to see him having to backpedal from stuff like this.

[iamjoy]

132. I'm With You

Could this be the "scream" of this campaign?
We'll have to see how it is spun.

[Erika]

14. "Utter disrespect" may have been a better term

Their agenda of war and helping the rich at the cost to the poor has made me lose any respect for the GOP. I've cooled many relationships with GOP friends and coworkers over their disconnect between what is humane and what is GOP.

[ElectroPrincess]

78. No, instead - Check this out?

"Oh GOD BLESS HOWARD DEAN and *everything* he says! He's such a God fearing' man."

I'd be willing to say the forgoing with conviction at every damned opportunity. Many of the freepers who say this don't actually believe it. They only say it to draw people into their (The Winning: like with God on your side how can you lose) team.

More of the forgoing and extrapolation of various tacky but EFFECTIVE tactics is exactly how we win.

[Maat]

18. I, for one. what to see what Howard Dean has to say about this.

He typically takes a very common-sense approach to things.

And I check Newsmax frequently, and am very familiar with how they distort stories to the point of total-liesville (apparently, they have something to do with this story - so, I am skeptical).

So, I, also want to hear the context of the remarks.

By the way, I hate the Rethuglicans and everything they stand for! Just kidding - sort of (Hubby's business partners are good-hearted Rethuglicans - we have just agreed to disagree. I think one of them must have been beaten by a Democrat when he was little.).

[Goldeneye]

20. lets just hope it doesnt pick up steam.

I don't want to see this on CNN for the next week and half. I know where Dean's coming from, but its going to be taken wrong way.

[Erika]

25. GOP blames us for PC language, well

Dr. Dean has shown that's not true. I admire Dean immensely. He's got the guts and passion to speak his mind.

[AnnitaR]

33. Dr. Dean, I HATE them too!

Once again Dean's saying what I'm thinking! I refuse to become one of them to beat them!

I admire Dean for having the backbone to say what he thinks. That's a rare thing in the Dem party these days!

[russian33]

35. NY Daily News - the NY Post wannabe

[Renew Deal]

42. They endorsed Bush.

And they run right winger columns like every day.

[BayCityProgressive]

47. If he really said this

He is a complete idiot and should not be our chair. I like him but I do hold reservations for reason like this. I will wait to see if the story is verified first. I don't want the chair of our party to look like a Jerry Springer screamer guest. I want someone who will stand up and fight but also someone with some common sense.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

54. Someone reoublican-lite?

Maybe someone like Tim Roemer hmmm?

[mazzarro]

55. This desire for mild mannered, non aggressive and always

willing to compromise and accomodate leadership for the democratic party and candidates is what is killing us. We are always looking for our opponent to validate our leaders. We are afraid if our leaders are abrasive and in-your-face type of person. We want the non-confrontational leaders. Well, I for one, am tired of it and wish that Dean makes this type of comments every other day!

[russian33]

57. It's not that he said it or not thing that bothers me

It's the title of the article...I expect that from NY Post...but for a while now, NY Daily News been trying to outdo the Post in that "Democrats are all crazy loons" department.

[WindRavenX]

43. word

I hate the bastards too, Dr.

[truthisfreedom]

44. nothing else has worked. i'm with Dean on this one.

i hate rethugs and everything they stand for too. f*@% all rethugs.

[BayCityProgressive]

59. This has

nothing to do with being GOP lite. Kennedy and Feingold and Boxer are all liberals and don't go screechign around the country about how much they hate Republicans. We want to appeal to enough Americans to actually you know...BE IN THE MAJORITY FOR ONCE...and I hate to break it to you but most Americans don't "hate" all Republicans. He could have criticized them plently without this needless flap. Of course by me saying this I must automatically be a GOP-lite freeper so flame away.

[truthisfreedom]

62. you're entitled to your opinion. no flames here. my point is,

i know exactly what Dean means. and i don't care how it reads on the screen... saying i hate rethugs and everything rethugs stand for is liberating for me.

[Rainscents]

102. How do you know if Dean actually said that???

Article came from Right wing nut job paper and they probably had twisted words... Please do NOT trash Dean with out all the fact first!!! Most Republicans hates Liberals and their beliefs!

[Sterling]

133. "Feingold" boy you just lost the argument there.

I suggest you pay more attention to who your friends are.

[whirlygigspin]

64. is it wrong to hate nazi's?

"don't say bad things about the nazi's, they're buying our ammunition".

Oh, thank you Neville Chamberlain.

now bark like a dog and roll over, Rover.

[BayCityProgressive]

73. A proper Democratic message

that would actually gain votes would be to say " The Republicans have failed miserably on this issue and here is why, now here is how the Democrats will fix it" NOT "I HATE YOU ALL, DIE DIE DIE, SCREECH SCREAM"

[Zensea]

81. The only howling I see in that article is in the headline

Dean's howling
to lead DNC

BY MAGGIE HABERMAN
DAILY NEWS CITY HALL BUREAU

go back and look at it.
Nowhere does it say he screeched or screamed. All the actual verbs in the article say he "said" this. Nothing about howling or screeching.
Looks like the author of the article or the headline writer did a little embellishment.
Trying to stir up old stuff from a year ago. These newspapers will keep doing that as long as we buy it.

[radio4progressives]

90. You mean "Fascists" don't you? n/t

[radio4progressives]

91. You mean "Fascists" don't you? n/t

[radio4progressives]

92. You mean "Fascists" don't you? n/t

[progressivebydesign]

185. I hate the republicans, too. He was TALKING about the Republican Party..

.. but doesn't it serve the DEAN HATERS here and in the DLC to paint it otherwise?? The Dean haters turn up here on DU every time he gets close to threatening the corporate whore existence of the Democratic Party.. I remember with absolute lack of fondness how the vermin crawled out from the woodwork here during the primaries, just to attack Howard Dean, and then disappeared back into their holes. I guess Dean scares the shit out of the corporate whore types.

[janx]

76. The right-wing media had all kinds of fun with out-of-context

Dean quotes(as did some opposing Democrats) when Dean was running in the primaries last year and the year before.

They're just lapsing into the same behavior, hoping it will scare people. They really don't want this man re-energizing the Democratic party.

Dean warned us it would happen in an email he sent when he announced he was running--not that he had to.

[Borgnine]

79. Go Dean!

We've been pandering and trying to make nice nice with these people for years now, and where has it gotten us? I think the Republicans have shown that you have to be as nasty as possible to the opposition.

It's time to grow a spine, people.

[Bouncy Ball]

80. Hmm, the New York Daily News

and it's also being reported by NewsMax.

Yeah, I'm real worried.

LMAO!!!!

[Renew Deal]

87. I bet Newsmax got it first.

It doesn't sound like Dean. We'll see.

[98geoduck]

84. NY Times doesn't mention it, but not exactly good press for Dean either

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/31/politics/31dnc.html

[ElectroPrincess]

86. *Any* press is GOOD press in these propaganda laden times!

Go Howard!

On Edit: Suggestion - let's call into CSPAN our complete support for Howard Dean's sentiments?

Yes, I hate republicans, baby!

I Hate Republicans 2004


They stand for greed
that’s unrestrained by shame or pity.
They own the factory,
the penthouse in the city.
They pledge allegiance to
their friends with lots of dollars.
They concentrate the wealth
and they disregard the squalor.

(Chorus) I hate Republicans.
I hate Republicans, baby,
I can’t stand those Republicans.
I hate that old Republican party.

2004 M. Farady / Pretty Nice Music (BMI).
All rights reserved. From The Happytones Play Politics CD.
Downloads and CDs available at www.thehappytones.com

[d_b]

89. I don't recall him saying that.

[Vadem]

93. Yep, Howard speaks for me!!!!!!! n/t

[Vadem]

94. I just realized that this was my 1000 post! .....In my view, a good...

one, endorsing Howard Dean, my first choice!!!!

[ElectroPrincess]

95. Congrats!

Kudos Vadem. I think that the only way we can counter scum like the right wing rags (NewMax, Washington Times, NY Post, etc) is SPIN every attempted democratic smear into A POSITIVE.

Heaven knows we don't have the outlets, so we might as well ride the waves. ;)

Happy 1000 posts fellow Dean Supporter! :toast:

[Vadem]

96. Thanks so much, ElectroPrincess! Don't we all wonder what.....

might have been if Howard had been the Democrat nominee, the plain truth speaker to the American people! It was obvious that the press DID NOT want Howard, even though we, the people, did want him!

[denism]

98. Dean is stating the obvious

He is running for DNC chair.

The message I hate the Republican machine/party/organization is spot on,
as is the acknowledgment of their expertise. It's more temperate language than
"These guys are biggest bunch of lying crooks I have ever seen."
but still on song. Can anyone here say they don't despise the mindset that
produced the SwiftBoat Liars.

It's a DNC election. He's taking on the Republican party.
Repeat after me, Dean didn't say:
"I hate Republicans!"

[Mistwell]

101. I just can't dig the "hate" part

You know, I am not going to judge anyone for hating Republicans. If there ever were a reason to hate, they have provided the reason plenty of times recently.

That said, I just cannot dig the "hate" part of this. Hate isn't what motivates me. It isn't an emotion I generally appreciate. Hate tends to cloud people's judgement, and encourages emotional reactions in situations that call for rationale plans. Hate usually causes people to over react, to foster fear and paranoia, to use force instead of reason, to dehumanize fellow humans, and to encourage more hate.

Howard, I do like you man. I want you as our next DNC chairman in fact. However, I really wish you wouldn't hate the Republicans. Disagree with them all you want. Work to oppose them. Work to educate them and change their minds. But I wish you wouldn't hate them...not because I feel sorry for Republicans, but because it tends to hurt our own causes.

[ProgressiveConn]

107. Since when are you a Democrat?

IIRC you were a moderate conservative republican and a regular Bush defender. Why do you use the word "our?"

[Mistwell]

124. Excuse me?

Where on earth did you get that from?!? When have I ever defended Bush, for ANYTHING?

[ProgressiveConn]

147. You have not been posting much lately

at Christopher and Lynn's board. But back in the day you were surely a Bush defender. =)

[Mistwell]

166. You have me confused with someone else

I have no idea who Christopher and Lynn are, nor have I ever been on a board linked to people with those names that I can ever recall.

There are other Mistwells out there. Apparently there is an apartment building of that name. Someone else lists it as their title (though I have no idea what the title means).

For me personally, it was just a funny way of spelling "Missed Well", which is an inside joke.

[ProgressiveConn]

188. So you...

have never been associated with Nutkin's crazy bunch? It is possible. Although same name + same avatar + same posting location usually means its the same person. I could be wrong. =)

[Seabiscuit]

99. The article's title is misleading.

"Dean Howling"... appears to be nothing but a smear, an attempt to get people who haven't read about his speech to think Dean delivered another "scream speech".

The body of the article says nothing about Dean "howling" or Dean "screaming" or Dean raising his voice at all. Instead, it states that Dean "told the crowd" (that he hates Republicans, etc.).

Typical right-wing yellow journalism.

[denism]

100. Re: The article's title is misleading.

Exactly.

[Rainscents]

103. Here is the link to HD speech yesterday!!!

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=454533&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

New York post twisted the whole story!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Howard Dean Did NOT said He HATE REPUBLICANS!!!!

[Vadem]

173. Actually, Rainscents, he did say it! I watched it on C-Span today

and he said "I hate the Republicans and all they stand for,...."

He went to state that he admired their organizational abilities in winning elections. I get so frustrated, though, when Dems speak to the Pubs abilities to win elections in that they never even HINT that they don't win them fairly, that they steal them through the voting machines.

[acmavm]

105. Amazing. People whine and carp because John Kerry didn't fight hard

enough, stand up for the party strongly enough, blah, blah, blah. So, we lose.

We are not the republican party so adopting their talking points and pretending to be them is will not work. Maybe some people didn't notice but the republicans said and did a lot more hateful stuff during the election than what they're attributing to Dr. Dean in this statement. And it worked very well for them. KKKarl had to goons out in full force. I highly doubt that it will get any better after this election.

And the kicker is, it's all coming from 'media' that are heavily tilted to the other side.

So we get Howard Dean, a guy who isn't afraid to tell it like it is, isn't afraid to call the republicans on their lies and downright dishonest bullshit, and people start bitching about that. Here's a guy with the guts to stand up and point out the lies, the dishonest tactics. That's what we need so badly now, not a bunch of cowards who are more interested in protecting themselves and their big money benefactors than they are standing up for the majority of the American people.

Just so there's no question of who I supported for the nomination, I was a CLARKIE.

[w4rma]

106. Bad talking point. Never ever use the word "hate" when refering to your

own beliefs. Never. This should be the last time Dean uses that talking point. That gets us in dangerous territory.

It's not even indicative of Democratic belief which opposes hate in all it's forms.

[Sterling]

134. That was before the NEO CONS, hate is the proper response to what is going

I think you are dreaming when you say that hate is not something a Democrat can feel or use as a tool.

[Vadem]

172. Sterling, you hit the nail on the head!...........

"That was before the NEO CONS, hate is the proper response to what is going on...".

Ain't it the truth! I never used to hate Pubs in the old days, but what we have in power now are NOT the Repubs from yesteryear! They are mean, liars, evil, thieves, corrupt, lied us into war, don't care about the little person......want to destroy Social Security, want to put torturers in as Attorney General, put a liar in as Secty of State.....support a thieving liar as president....

continue on folks....

[Guaranteed]

108. Yet ANOTHER hit piece on Dean from the Clintons' NY Daily News!

Surprise, Surprise!

They had a REALLY nasty editorial just before the new year in 2003, in the run up to Iowa, scaring the hell out of people about Dean. Here we go again!

[TheWebHead]

109. video link of Dean's "I hate the Republicans..."

http://216.32.83.39/DeanDNC.wmv

[w4rma]

110. Why would you make a clip of that? Seriously. It's not bad, but why? (nt)

[JNelson6563]

112. Me too!

http://bushflash.com/ihr.html

:toast:

[ElectroPrincess]

115. Too Cool! I'll see your "I Hate Republicans"

and raise you my boy Elroy's "Republican's Suck!"

Republicans Suck

http://www.elroy.net/songs/Elroy%20-%20Republicans%20Suck.mp3

Republicans suck
Suck, suck, suck
They suck
Suck, suck, suck

Christians buy 'em
Mormons love 'em
They suck

They don't like gays
Wanna hide 'em away
They suck

Love an embryo
Hate a homo
They suck

Their ideal woman
Is indoors cookin'
They suck

Liberals need to take responsibility
They can't run and hide
Pissed us off so we voted for Republicans
A form of suicide

They hate erections
And steal elections
They suck

They drill for oil
In land unspoiled
They suck


They suck like crazy
But not in a good way
They suck

http://www.elroy.net/songs/republicanssuck.html

[JNelson6563]

123. That was fun!

Thanks for posting it! :toast:

[ausiedownunderground]

116. This "Dean" character sounds like he might actually want to save the rest

Why doesn't he stand up and tell the US public how their Economy is really going, how the wars in the Middle East are going and how the Rest of the World is getting less than happy with the US's public acceptance of "The Bush Gang's" mental state!!!!You Americans are extremely "Wimpy"!! This is how a Nazi Dynasty in Germany started!

[sendero]

117. If in fact he actually said this...

... it is a good illustration of why he should be DNC chair and would not win elections.

As for it disqualifying him for DNC chair, I say "why"? The only difference between this statement and what the Repukes do EVERY SINGLE DAY is that he said it himself instead of paying some lacky to say it.

Coulter, Limbaugh, Hannity, O-Really, and on and on say pretty much the same thing about Dems on a daily basis.

We need someone to rachet up the rhetoric on our side. Thank you Dr. Dean.

(Disclaimer: I doubt this is an accurate quote, and I'm waiting for a verification from a better source before I believe it)

[Mend]

118. I hate republicans....he speaks for me....

and when they draft your kids, take away the last of your rights, cost you your job, destroy social security, promote war and torture, you might hate them too. I don't care what they think when we speak the truth....the time to speak out is now. Stop being afraid of the how we sound to them.

[bunkerbuster1]

146. Note that he didn't say "I hate republican VOTERS"

Let's all try to remember that, 'K?

[VegasWolf]

131. Go DEAN!!! I'm there 100%. n/t

[JaneQPublic]

135. The only media reporting this are NY Daily News and NewsMax

I searched Google News and Google Web, and those were the only mentions of Dean saying "I hate the Republicans."

The DNC forum at the Roosevelt hotel was also reported by USA Today, the AP, and other major news services, but, they never mentioned the alleged "hate" remark from Dean.

You'd think if he actually had said it, they would have made it the lead in their stories.

So, until someone provides a more trustworthy source, I'm taking this with a grain of salt.

[TheWebHead]

137. or you can just download it and watch

http://216.32.83.39/DeanDNC.wmv

[NNguyenMD]

144. I've got a $100 check with the DNC's name on it if Dean is chairman, who's

with me? (Doesn't have to be $100 but anything to show support for the Doctor in charge)

[Renew Deal]

151. I'm with you.

No problem.

[eridani]

183. I'm on. My man Dennis ain't running for the position.

If Dean gets the DNC chairmanship, I support the national party. If he doesn't I don't--local and state Dem organizations will get more instead.

[ozone_man]

181. I will contribute

if Dean is chairman, because it gives me hope that he can change this party. And I hate Republicans too.:-)

[bvar22]

145. I just Googled "I Hate Republicans"!

967,000 HITS.
:)

{cue the music}
I HATE Republicans, Baby..
Can't STAND republicans...

[98geoduck]

163. up to 984,000 hits as of 6:48 PM EST

Sure to top a million by tomorrow.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

149. I love their discipline, organization, and tactics too!

[Megahurtz]

155. I hate them and

I don't admire ANYTHING about them.

[Megahurtz]

156. And what the fuck is "Republican Lite"???

:puke:

[dhinojosa]

159. And Now: You might be republican lite.

"If you vote for tax cuts, because you believed that it will be used for middle and lower class, you might be Republican Lite"

"If you really thought Iraq was a threat, voted for the resolution, and merely wished that Bush did the right thing, you might be Republican Lite"

"If you are afraid to comment on the government because you don't want to be seen as not 'Supporting the troops', you might be Republican Lite"

"If you go hunting during a campaign stop, you might be Republican Lite"

"If you vote for someone who knowingly misled the public because you don't want to be seen as an obstructionist, well you might be Republican Lite"

[ultraist]

161. Leiberman or an ANTI-choice religious *Democrat* is Repuke lite

Putting religious beliefs BEFORE the importance of women's rights is Repuke lite. This is a veiled way to diminish the importance of seperation of church and state and women's rights in general.

I think it was Roemer who stated he is anti-choice and we should focus on making abortion rare. That's fine and we should but for him to FAIL to mention that we value a women's RIGHT to choose is REPUKE LITE BS.

We need someone who will HOLD UP the core values of the Democratic party PROUDLY! NOT someone who is ashamed of our values and cowers. FUCK THAT SHIT!

PRO-CHOICE
PRO-GAY RIGHTS
PRO-EQUAL OPPORTUNITY INCLUDING ACCESS TO OPPORTUNITY
PRO-AFFRIMATIVE ACTION

Those are TRADITIONAL DEMOCRAT CORE VALUES. And we need to STOP THE WHITEWASHING.

We are NOT the party that promotes letting religious agendas interfere with RIGHTS. We are NOT the party that believes that the poor should be neglected and marginalized groups should continue to be oppressed. THAT would be the Repuke party.

[Megahurtz]

168. We do need someone really strong to lead

the Democratic Party.

There's too much pansy-assing going on. We can't have someone that's walking the fence on the core issues.

[ultraist]

160. I watched that speech on CSPAN of the Sat Chair candidates' panel

And when Dean said that, I didn't think it was the BEST way he could have made his point. I don't think it's a big deal though, I hear Democrats say that type of thing regularly. In fact, I was a bit surprised to hear some of the officers in our Dem party make those types of comments, but I suppose when you are viewing the Repukes as the opposition/enemy, it's natural to do so.

Dean is correct when he says the Repub lite BS WONT WORK. That was his point. And that we need to get ORGANIZED and moblilize our voters. We really don't need Repubs, we simply need to get our own people registered and to the polls, we have enough Democrats to win.

Why the FUCK should we continue to pander the Republicans? I heard people ask, 'what's the difference between Bush and Kerry's plans?' We NEED to differentiate ourselves from the Repukes.

I hope Dean gets the position and I tend to think he will. If one of the religious candidates get it, we are in for some sorry shit.

[mockingbich]

162. Hate is not a family value

But since Dean hates repukes...we'll let it slide... just this once

[madmark]

164. The Only Thing Bad About Dean Getting DNC Chair

Is that it is likely as a practical matter preclude him from running for the presidency again. The guy is a no bs straight shooter, exactly what is needed. Discriminating against Gays is just flat wrong and he, and every other American politician, ought to say it over and over again until it ceases to exist. And too bad for the religious bigots who have a problem with that.

[ima_sinnic]

171. welcome to DU, madmark! and your post is right on the money!

the nay-sayers need to pipe down and just hear him out. "straight shooter" is exactly what he is.
:toast:

[Depth03]

176. Howling like this...

www.depthaudio.com/Dean.htm - yes, we need to say it like this.
Audio at link.

[American Tragedy]

182. I agree, madmark

I've finally come to a point where I can't accept discrimination in the name of political expediency, especially since it hasn't proven to be very expedient thus far.

We should be proud to know that we stand on the righteous side of history, against the Republican social status quo that continues to crumble.

[98geoduck]

169. Deans new MTV video.....

www.ericblumrich.com/ihr.html

[despairing optimist]

170. Some Republicans hate Republicans too

That's why they voted for Kerry or chose to stay home or not vote for any presidential candidate.

As for Dean's choice of words, why are people so upset? We have a president who has been putting his foot in his mouth for more than four years and it hasn't harmed him much, has it?

Yeah, I'm a shameless Dean supporter. There's a time to be mild-mannered, conciliatory, and accommodating. That time is most certainly not now, not when so much is at stake. As a sage once said, "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!"

Time to use those words against the very party that first mouthed them, and Dean is the man to do it, IMHO.

[fshrink]

174. Who can explain why

"hate" has become a dirty word? Like it's best to pretend indifference. Who knows what the definition(s) of hatred are?
"Intense animosity or hostility." Fine by me!
"Feeling of dislike so strong that it demands action". Fine by me!
(feel free to add your own sources)

I say, fuck with those pussy-footers, reframers of all brands who, in fact, achieve only one thing: castrate rightful, genuine and productive human emotions. What is that? The stiff-upper-lip generation? A re-run of Victorian crap? Dean hates republicans. Me too.

[98geoduck]

175. I think I got caught up in the "PC" thing to say for a couple of days...

But couldn't agree with you more at this stage.

[progressivebydesign]

184. Didn't we read that the "STOP DEAN" crowd had started??

Well.. didn't take long for the bootlicking media to jump in bed with them. Dean said that? Cool. They fucking deserve it. And the term "HOWLING", gosh.. why does it not surprise me that the media and Dean's enemies (as in BIG MONEY DEMS) would use that term.

[Kashka-Kat]

191. Oh my! Does Howard Dean hate my mother?

Is that an exact quote, "I hate republicans" ?? Or is it some republican twisting of the words.

If so-- that's unfortunate. Its gonna bite him (and us) in the ass. I mean, I HATE, I DESPISE, I fear, loathe, and am repulsed by the republican party agenda (especially the more virulent neo-con version of it we have now)and yup I suppose even some of the individuals who are working to implement that agenda. But no I don't hate all republicans, or all people who vote republican. I in my own small way am trying to counteract the neocon agenda by trying to communicate & reach the hearts & minds of those that I know and even --- gulp--"love", and these kinds of thoughtless remarks by "our" people really do get in the way.

When I ask if Dean hates my mother Im not being silly -unfortunately, language is all we humans have to convey message & intent, and a good politician is one who uses it effectively.

And that's all I'll say about THAT.