1 in 3 teens says First Amendment goes 'too far'

[elehhhhna]

Jan. 31, 2005, 9:35AM

1 in 3 teens says First Amendment goes 'too far'
By BEN FELLER
Associated Press

WASHINGTON - The way many high school students see it, government censorship of newspapers may not be a bad thing, and flag burning is hardly protected free speech. ADVERTISEMENT


It turns out the First Amendment is a second-rate issue to many of those nearing their own adult independence, according to a study of high school attitudes released today.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/3017116

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

1. 33% of our youth has no goddamn clue.

Thank god the other 67% does.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

40. but this is the small percent that elects idiots like Bush

this 33% may get informed enough to change its views and reduce the cluelessness down to 10%, but still that is way too many idiots to allow into the voting populace- look Kerry lost by less than 3% this time! They are a critical link!

[VegasWolf]

33% have simple-minded, illiterate Republican parents that teach

them this shit.

[okieinpain]

54. yes, the press writes bad things about their stars. must not upset

the young ones, with silly stuff like the truth.

[Hissyspit]

68. This Discussion Is Also In General Discussion Thread Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3034108&mesg_id=3034108&page=

[Sabriel]

84. As *ush would say, "Is our children brainwashed?"

And the answer is--obviously--YES!

[lebkuchen]

116. Isn't it 2/3 RW adults who feel the same way?

I saw that stat somewhere a couple of years ago--shocking stuff.

[Tempest]

2. Hitler youth

Looks like a new wave of fascism is coming.

[CottonBear]

3. 1 in 3 teens scare the hell out of me. eom

[trotsky]

12. Amen.

:scared:

[hector459]

42. 2/3 scare me. The product of unpublic education and non-liberal arts

backgrounds. Say what you will, but when I came up in the public school system and attended liberal arts college we were taught to think critically about what was going on in the world around us. But I guess we didn't have as much TV Propaganda influencing us to NOT think.
We are going to hell in a handbasket, no question about it in my mind.
All we are about is markets, profits, toys, leisure time, and no responsibility.

[thinkingwoman]

98. public schools don't allow thinking anymore

critical or otherwise.

Sorry, but my impression from reading the article is that public school students made up the bulk of the study.

Judging from the public schools in my state (which aren't good enough for my kids to attend btw), I'm saddened, but not surprised.

[BrendaStarr]

120. You think private schools do?

Have you had kids in the Christian schools?

Those kids are taught creationism and right wing philosophy.

Maybe you're thinking of the private schools that the rich can afford with 12 kids per class.

You might be correct there, but those affluent private schools kids also learn the they are better than the rest of us and that they don't really have to care if kids get fed.

It isn't going to be them or their kids suffering.

[thinkingwoman]

121. private schools aren't all christian

and there are some very good christian schools.

You're overgeneralizing without evidence to support your broad assertions.

There is ample evidence, however, that public schools are not actually educating an acceptable number of students. We can keep allowing the dumbing down, or we can admit that public schools have a serious problem.

I choose to face the problem and try to do something about it.

[Newsjock]

4. These would be the same students who ...

in 2002...
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/EDUCATION/11/20/geography.quiz/index.html

• Thirty-four percent of the young Americans knew that the island used on last season's "Survivor" show was located in the South Pacific, but only 30 percent could locate the state of New Jersey on a map. The "Survivor" show's location was the Marquesas Islands in the eastern South Pacific.

... • When asked to find 10 specific states on a map of the United States, only California and Texas could be located by a large majority of those surveyed. Both states were correctly located by 89 percent of the participants. Only 51 percent could find New York, the nation's third most populous state.

... • Only 71 percent of the surveyed Americans could locate on the map the Pacific Ocean, the world's largest body of water. Worldwide, three in 10 of those surveyed could not correctly locate the Pacific Ocean.

[Tafiti]

60. That is pathetic.

You're probably right, I'm sure there's a correlation there.

But Jesus, exactly what are these kids doing during Geography class. That's just unbelievable.

[ashmanonar]

72. geography?

what's that? hell, in my high school (despite being in a VERY conservative area, we had a hell of a lot of art and music stuff...bc of the money) we didn't HAVE to take a geography class. we had to take biology, physics, and chemistry...of which chemistry is very limited and almost not necessary for high school students. we did have a civics class, and a variety of history classes (which were the only classes i really learned much in, besides art) so we were better off than some. but there were plenty of students in my school who just didn't care...it's not even that the opportunities aren't there, it's that many of them just DON'T CARE. apathy is a greater enemy than ignorance.

[Tafiti]

90. Very true.

A lot of kids can't be bothered to learn anything - probably as a knee-jerk rebellion response to authority. But in my high school, Geography class was required, and usually taken sophomore year. Maybe it's a classic case of learn it for the test, then promptly forgotten.

Reminds me of "Jaywalking" on Jay Leno. I remember them interviewing these two college graduates, and they were completely ignorant to the most basic knowledge of history and geography. It boggles the mind how someone can make it through both high school and college without learning some of these things, even if only by accident.

[KansDem]

61. I thought I'd read a coupld of years ago that 99% of Americans...

could not identify the five freedoms guaranteed by the First Amendment...

But I could not find that statistic again. However, I did find these:

"Government of the people, by the people, for the people" are words from President Abraham Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address during the Civil War. They are often quoted as a definition of democracy.

According to the U.S. Department of Education, National Assessment of Education, a mere 23% of college seniors from elite universities and liberal arts colleges could answer this question correctly.

Ratified in 1788, the Constitution is the fundamental document governing the United States, outlining, among other things, the distinct powers of branches of government. According to the Constitution itself, it is the "supreme Law of the Land."

According to the Colonial Williamsburg Foundation, 19 percent of teenagers could not identify the three branches of government.

The first 10 Amendments to the U.S. Constitution, known as the Bill of Rights, were added to ensure fundamental rights of the people and the states against a strong central government.

According to the U.S. Department of Education, National Assessment of Education, 65% of 12th grade students could not identify the purpose of the Bill of Rights.

Americans declared independence from England, as they opposed the oppressive control of the British crown. Specifically colonists objected to "taxation without representation," and England’s refusal to allow self government in the new world.

According to the National Constitution Center’s survey of high school students, 14% think we declared our independence from France. More than 20% did not know that we declared our independence from England.

The stripes on the American Flag represent the original 13 colonies, which became the first 13 states in the United States: Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New Hampshire, New York, Delaware, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Maryland, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia.

According to the U.S. Department of Education, National Assessment of Education, a mere 32 % of 4th and 8th grade students could identify one of the 13 colonies that fought the American Revolution.

http://www.cfif.org/htdocs/freedomline/current/quiz_answers.htm

And here is an additional bit of information:

The least popular First Amendment right once again was freedom of the press. Forty-two percent of respondents said the press in America has too much freedom to do what it wants, roughly the same level as last year.

The survey also found, as in previous years, that many Americans are unable to name the five freedoms guaranteed in the First Amendment. The percentages of those responding who were able to identify individual freedoms:


58% — freedom of speech
18% — freedom of religion
14% — freedom of the press
10% — freedom of assembly/association
2% — freedom of petition

The national survey of 1,000 respondents was conducted by Center for Survey Research and Analysis at the University of Connecticut by telephone between June 12 and July 5, 2002. The sampling error is plus-or-minus 3%.

http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=16836

[BiggJawn]

63. Little twisting going on there...

"Only 71 percent of the surveyed Americans could locate on the map the Pacific Ocean, the world's largest body of water. Worldwide, three in 10 of those surveyed could not correctly locate the Pacific Ocean."

So, 3 out of 10 World-wide could NOT locate the Pacific ocean. Yet only 2.9 out every 10 Americans were unable to locate it.

7 out of 10 world-widers could find it, so let's say 70 out of 100. 71 out of 100 americans could find it.

Ah, well, it's from CNN, whaddaya expect?

And 1 out of 3 Murkan Junior Ditto-Heads saying they don't like free speech is troubling ANY waay you look at it...

[xchrom]

5. sigh

[bowens43]

6. Why are our children becoming idiots?

[davidinalameda]

14. I don't think that its anything new

these polls about finding states have shown the same results for years--not enough social studies classes

and I think that's probably one of the reasons for the 1-3 survey about the First Amendment

kids aren't being taught these things in school

the school systems have cut back to bare bones in most places--civics class is seen as a luxury

but gods forbid you cut driver's ed because parents get a break on their insurance

[Journeyman]

74. I've seen this same story -- with slight variations -- trotted out...

every half-dozen or so years. If the media goes true to form, expect to see an equally disturbing, hand-wringing account of adult attitudes against our basic rights in the next week or so.

Is it something to be concerned about? Always. An informed electorate with a stake in the continuance of our society is something worth working towards. Will their ignorance hasten the end of free speech? Not as much as the general level of fear has accomplished in the last few years.

There's the culprit that poses our greatest risk: Fear. Fight that, and the ignorant will remain as ineffective as they should be in an informed, functioning society.

[beam me up scottie]

18. Don't you mean "Why IS our children becoming idiots?"?

nt
:evilgrin:

[MADem]

32. Heh, heh...the obvious answer is

...cuz they is too busy makin' the pie higher, and eating it in one sitting!!! They get that sticky pie juice all over their chubby little hands, and they can't turn the pages of the book...and Pretzelboy can't go to EVERY school to read to the kiddies...

The page turner in chief has "hard work" to do!

[ixion]

19. because fundamental critical thinking skills are no longer taught

in public schools, IMO.

[Montanan]

124. They're becoming idiots because that is in the State's best interests. n/t

[libnnc]

7. This is what happens

when you hire football coaches to teach US History and Civics

~slavery wasn't so bad after all
~poor people are just lazy
~nationalism is cool
~"Liberal-Commie Media" booga-booga
~Critical thinkers are "terrists"

It was bad when I was in school back in '85 and it hasn't gotten any better now.

[ashmanonar]

73. the football/wrestling coaches

are actually hired bc they were teaching there...(at least in my school, i don't know about yours) i know one football/wrestling coach who was an excellent english teacher, another who was a fairly good chemistry teacher. so please don't generalize that much. i know what you mean, by hiring f/w coaches to teach history is kinda sad...but for some of these teachers it's a way to get extra money, although then they have no home-life...

[Borgnine]

94. Coaches taught history, civics ,and geography in my high school...

...but most of them were actually pretty liberal.

[libnnc]

102. Y'all were lucky

my high school history teachers were not at all liberal. The head football coach taught US history and used to make racist comments in class on a regular basis "...slavery was the good old days for white folks..." etc.

Being in the south in the mid 1980s was a whole different can 'o worms.

Be grateful for your enlightened teachers...they're fading fast.

[hollowdweller]

123. No, you have warrantless locker searches, drug dogs in school,

metal detectors, expel them for any speech that could be remotely construed as violent, drug test atheletes, remove any controversial books from the library, v chips, content blocking on computers. Liberty and respect for the constitution is taught by example. You can't deny kids rights in the interest of safety and order and then make them respect it magically when they turn 21.

[ElectroPrincess]

8. Oh boy, rise of fascist youth movement. Remind you of something?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

9. Wait a sec. I thought teens were NOT to be considered sources of wisdom?

So, RW trolls, which way is it?

[gratuitous]

10. One of the best things about teen-agers

Is that they eventually get into their 20s, and their adult brains grow in. Rather than sighing plaintively over the state of our nation's youth, we might be better served reaching out to young people, and giving them information that will help them make wiser choices as they grow up.

Because if we're not talking to the young people, I know another political party that's working double-time to indoctrinate them in the me-first attitude that's so destructive to our society.

[OneBlueSky]

46. I know a lot of people in their 20s (and beyond) who reflect . . .

these exact same opinions . . . many of them have "Support the Troops" ribbons on their bumpers and flags on their antennae . . . if these kinds of attitudes are allowed to fester during adolescence, there's a good chance that, for many, they will carry over into adulthood . . . witness the number of people who voted for Bush as evidence of the lack of critical thinking skills among the general population . . .

[gratuitous]

85. Yep, that's just what I'm saying

Attitudes developed and cemented during adolescence have a way of coming out in later life, and it's not too early to give our kids the tools and the practice they need to think critically and look beyond a feel-good me-first idea that seems attractive at first glance.

I know that we've got a lot on our collective plate, but I applaud efforts to teach kids to understand better and see more than just their own world.

[Johnny Noshoes]

101. Maybe I'm the exception.

I'm 51 years old. When I was 18 in 1972 I voted for Nixon and I guess you could say that I was a fairly conservative young guy. I was a fish out of water on the Brooklyn College campus but that was where I began to move from the 'dark side" into the light. I finally became a Democrat after watching ole Tricky give a speech one night in the spring of 1973. I think I finally saw him for what he was and I never turned back. So you see don't count ALL of these young people out because with some guidance and some information some of them can be brought around to our side.


"When you trade your values for the hope of winning, you end up losing and having no values....so you keep losing." Howard Dean 2004

[54anickel]

11. OMG, the future is not looking very "bright", is it?

snip>

...Only half of the students said newspapers should be allowed to publish freely without government approval of stories. :wow:

"These results are not only disturbing; they are dangerous," said Hodding Carter III, president of the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation, which sponsored the $1 million study. "Ignorance about the basics of this free society is a danger to our nation's future."

snip>

"Schools don't do enough to teach the First Amendment. Students often don't know the rights it protects," Linda Puntney, executive director of the Journalism Education Association, said in the report. "This all comes at a time when there is decreasing passion for much of anything. And, you have to be passionate about the First Amendment."

Yeah, and do you think they'll start teaching more of it now that they are "teaching to the test" sanctioned by the gubbermint? :eyes:

Bye, bye America - was great knowin' ya.

[Psephos]

13. What do you expect? They're TEENS. :-)

In their world Eminem and Aesop Rock, AOL IM, and the OC are going to beat out studying the constitution every time. I suppose we could demand more inculcation of constitutional awareness in civics classes. Yeah, that'll do it: let's cram it down their throats.

They'll come around on their own. Just like you did.

[elehhhhna]

15. They're the ones who'll be DRAFTED. They need to pay attention.

[Psephos]

23. Jeez, everyone sounds like a finger-wagging preacher in here :-)

Chill, they're kids. You do remember what that feels like, right?

In case you don't, they're not going to do what they're "supposed" to do, or what's "in their best interests," they're not going to eat their vegetables, and they're not going to spend Saturday night studying the Bill of Rights.

But one day they will stop being kids and then they can take up this dreadful serious political bullshit we all seem so addicted to in here.

[elehhhhna]

I remember but I wasn't threatened with a draft.

[NurseLefty]

88. When I was a teen, I paid attention.

I read newspapers, followed politics and I DID know about the Bill of Rights. I registered to vote as soon as I turned 18. Admittedly, many of my peers weren't so informed (Reagan youth - wow, history is repeating itself).
What I think is happening here is that we had generations that lived through WWI, the Great Depression, WWII, the Korean War and the Vietnam War. They were reminded about what was worth fighting for. My generation and the one after it has never known that kind of hardship. That's good, of course, but the downside is that the younger generations have grown complacent. Will it take another era of hardship to wake people up?!

[ElectroPrincess]

27. Hey when I was a teen, I was anti-authority ... like it was a mission

from God. LOL All my Mom and Dad had to say is "you can't do that" and I was in THAT trouble and more.

Sure there were jerks and insane peace movements in the 60s and 70s but, in general, teenagers could be depended on to tout a pissy attitude and ultra-defiant to most authority figures. My Father slapped me around for sewing a US Army patch on my butt and tore down the neon peace sign in the bedroom. Gee, if you don't counter you parents, what fun is adolescence? LOL

Teenagers are supposed to be anti-authority especially those kids of right wingers (like me).

What's wrong with today's kids?

Part of me hopes for a military draft. Just perhaps that will make the kids wake-up and rebel against being sent to fight and die for the Neo-Con's corporate OIL wars.

[Psephos]

28. LOL, you and me both, Princess! n/t

[ashmanonar]

33. that's an irresponsible attitude...

noone should hope for a draft. i'm 20, and i'd be first to go if i passed the med exams...it's not the "damn rebel teens" who get drafted, it's the people just entering their 20's, the people "just growing into their adult brains."

please don't wish a draft on anyone.

[RaleighNCDUer]

47. I don't know. Some of us seem to be made differently.

When I was 15 I sat down to deconstruct the Constitution -- this was years before 'deconstruction' was even a term. I examined it article by article, clause by clause, and re-wrote it to modernize it.

When I re-read it upon finishing, I discovered I was a fascist. I tore it up and started to really study the issues, and have been a liberal dem ever since.

I wish today I had kept a copy of it, just to remind myself of what can happen when you get all your news and opinions from the Stars & Stripes.

[Dickie Flatt]

108. Well then we need to tell them

that if the Republicans have their way, then the first amendment protections that some of these teens take for granted will mean that you can't listen to Eminem and you can't watch The OC.

[MidwestTransplant]

16. Good, only 33% are Republicans!!!

The trick is to make sure more don't convert as they get older!

[Straight Shooter]

20. Aha! Someone has found the pony in the pile of horse manure.

:D

[demnan]

17. No one reads growing up anymore

and it shows. Sure they teach you nothing but crap in school, always have, but at least some students used to go to the library and actually check out some books on American History, among other things.

[tom_paine]

21. They don't have to worry about the bad old First Amendment

The Old Constitution is dead, onyl observed as lip service and as a "trasitional order" to keep people in line while the Imperial Family finishes doing the Caeser to us.

I wouldn't give a bucket of warm spit to be alive in Imperial Amerika 2050, and those "teens" will have distant, yet fond memories of The Good Old Days, which erversely enough is TODAY and every day that there is a little of the Old America left in the Empire.

But that won't last, at least that's what history says, and the Amerikan Empire, like others before it, will rapidly fall into despotism and corruption once it is finally "freed" of the ways of Freedom, of Checks and Balnces.

1 in 3 teens won't even notice, as long as they obey Der Fuhrer and don't speak out against The Party.

[ElectroPrincess]

29. Yikes, I better take counter-measures in case my grade schooler

has been tasked by TIPs to "spy on your liberal parent."

[tom_paine]

43. I think you're probably safe for the moment

Whether you're being facetious or not.

But wait...some psychologically devastating event is on the horizon to speed up the Next Phase of Transformation.

[Toots]

22. But the second ammendment doesn't go far enough

What a sick sick society we live in.

[nolabels]

62. In other words they should never let stupid republicans have guns

I think should have all the guns they needed or want
(just as long as the whole lot of them can be shipped out to some far away island to shoot it up against each other :evilgrin:)

[gottaB]

24. What gives them the right to say that?

[GiovanniC]

70. Clever :) n/t

[Katidid]

25. What is this ...

I have 3 grand nieces, 2 grand kids ... and I am really worried. Is this an example of revisionist education?

[B3Nut]

26. "Can you rule a thinking man? We don't want any thinking men!"

Yeah it's an Ayn Rand quote, IIRC from The Fountainhead, but it fits. Boy does it ever.

TP

[mediaman007]

30. That's because they have listened to their parents whine

at teachers and coaches all their lives. They have never had to speak against the establishment, mom and dad have done it for them.

Their children will grow up to be Stepford children: no thoughts or creative process.

[durablend]

31. There ya go...

"Mommy and daddy told me that liberals suck and that's all I need to know"

[ElectroPrincess]

34. The good news is ...

If mommy and daddy wiped their noses and told them that they can do NO wrong, these spoiled brats are NOT going to be worth "a damn" in the real world of cut throat competition.

Yes, DRAFT YOUNG REPUBLICANS! They need the discipline.

I might have had a major case of the a** for my parents but they held me to task on all my mistakes. Real or imagined. LOL

[prodigal_green]

35. but just wait until somebody tries to ban

some speech that they believe in, no matter how much horsepoop it is and they'll cry, "that's like, uhhhh, totally unfair, like what about the first commandment?"

[sarcasmo]

36. 1/3 have already drank the Kool Aid a scary situation.

[dethl]

37. WHAT?!

For crying out loud this is my generation that is saying this....WTF?! I think they've been watching Channel One for a bit too long.

[NYC]

107. Good for you.

I'm glad you know better. :hi:

[tinymontgomery]

38. Our founding fathers

Our founding fathers our turning over in their graves. To think the experiment lasted over two hundred years, its going down fast.

[slackmaster]

39. Well they should just shut the fuck up or leave the country

And take their Commie opinions with them.

:crazy:

[Sentath]

41. Look to their training! It has never applied to them!

Why should they think it applies to others?

http://www.soros.org/initiatives/youth/articles_publications/articles/censorcrosshairs_20021001">In the Censor's Crosshairs

http://www.ajr.org/Article.asp?id=2554">High School Confidential : In their efforts to suppress negative news, administrators are increasingly apt these days to censor student newspapers. And the young journalists are fighting back.

http://www.freeexpression.org/schools/schools02.htm">Free Expression Network

http://www.rethinkingschools.org/archive/12_03/eweb123.shtml">Fighting High School Censorship : High school is often the place where young people think seriously about their legal status for the first time. It's where the childhood cry, "That's not fair," becomes the adult assertion, "I've got my Constitutional rights!" How young people see those rights treated by those in charge is a formative political experience.

[bear425]

44. The assimilation to the Borg is nearly complete. n/t

[nashville_brook]

45. this is what happens when lynn cheney has control of history books

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1014-21.htm

[shawn703]

48. This is the quote that scares me even more:

"Only half of the students said newspapers should be allowed to publish freely without government approval of stories."

I'm dumbfounded.

[iamjoy]

49. Sometimes Censorship Is A Good Thing

or at least necessary. Just to give a couple of examples of when censorship might be necessary - say a newspaper found out the advance plans for a covert military operation. They shouldn't publish it, to do so would put the men and women of armed forces in danger. Don't we wish some one had censored Bob Novak before he outed Valerie Plame?
Or, what if some Radical Cleric writes and tries to publish an article telling people it is their Christian duty to kill sinners in their midsts (and defines "sinners")?

But it is a slippery slope, what else would they censor in the name of "national security" or protecting the public? Anyway, I think some Conservative group asked the question in a loaded way.

[BiggJawn]

65. Isn't that a "Straw Man"?

Outside of a FR rant about the "Liberal Media", when was the last time any news org published the "advance plans for a covert military operation."?

Censorship is always abhorrant.

[bvar22]

80. Fox News.

During the invasion, Fox's Lead reporter drew the invasion plans in the sand in front of the Fox cameras who broadcast them to the World.

[Hissyspit]

83. The Examples Quoted Should Prob Not Be Done; Not Same Thing As Outlawing

[iamjoy]

95. Bay Of Pigs/Geraldo Rivera

The NYT published stuff about The Bay of Pigs, before the operation happened.

Geraldo Rivera drew a map in the sand giving away "his" unit's location.

[BiggJawn]

110. Bay of Pigs was an illegal operation and SHOULD have been "outed"

Maybe we would have been spared poppy Bush if the "Barbara" had been sunk.

Horrendo Revolver is just a damn fool, and to use him as an example of a "Journalist" is almost intellectually dishonest.

hope you got hob-nail boots on. that slippery slope's damn hard to get stopped on once you start sliding.

[iamjoy]

111. The Slippery Slope Is What Scares Me

a lot could be deemed as being in the "interest of public protection" even when it isn't, it is more in the interst of "the administration's protection"

If our schoolkids think the government should approve news stories as practice, one of two things is happening

1) Because our Supreme Court ruled in the 80's that school newspapers could be censored, they don't know any different and once they grow up and get into the real world they will see things differently

2) Our schools have failed to teach our children sufficient history so that they can understand WHY a free press is so important

At least, I would like to think it is one of those two things, not that we are raising a generation of facists.

BTW - if it was okay for the media to reveal Bay of Pigs since it was a covert operation, was it okay for Novak to "Out" Plame (a covert operative who possibly participated in out "illegal" operations?). If you say yes, you are saying that the government can censor the media. If you say no, then we really can't have much of a CIA, can we?

[shawn703]

67. The picture I get when I hear the phrase "government approval of stories"

is one where I picture all news articles going through and being edited by a government censor. The only thing we'd get are good news for the government and lies - I guess all our news would end up like Faux News.

I also think free speech (and I'm probably wrong on this assumption) is limited so far as it doesn't put other people's lives in danger isn't it?

[iamjoy]

113. You Think That Isn't Happening Now

I mean, to some extent?
Respectable media has to verify stories. In their verification process for a story about politics or issues, they may call some one from government.

You don't think if our government really wanted a story shut down, they couldn't do it? Your picture is very obvious and literal, mine is more abstract. Maybe that is why I'm not in a panic, because I don't think these kids understood the question. Maybe I'm the naive one.

[Spacejet]

76. Oh please

even in your fake scenario it would probably be BETTER that they published it so the military could scrap the whole operation.

*IF* a newspaper were to find out about such an operation, don't you think the cover has already been blown? And if a newspaper of all organizations has found out, don't you think it's likely the enemy could have just as well? Going in to an operation when you THINK the enemy doesn't know you're coming and they do is NOT a good idea...

[Media_Lies_Daily]

117. If our security measures were so screwed up to allow that kind of....

...information to reach the media, don't you think the opposing forces would also know that the operation was coming?

Personally speaking from my own military experience, exposing that kind of stupidity might save a lot of lives.

You went out on a limb and don't even realize that it's been cut.

[genieroze]

50. Obviously their parents are morons, my kids learned about these

things from ME. A third sounds about right to me because about a third of this country are RW idiots and they are the ones influencing their kids. I bet these same kids think that Jesus discovered America and that forced prayer in skools are the way to go. If kids did the opposite of what their parents say then mine would be RW fundamentalists. They aren't, they know their rights, they vote and are registered Democrats.

[jmowreader]

51. NCLB strikes again!

If it's not on that damn test, it won't be taught any more.

[Greylyn58]

52. As much as I hate to say this

I think when the draft is reinstated, it might shake the 1 in 3 kids up and help them to rethink their views concerning that particular Amendment and all the other items listed in the Constitution.

Mostly because things will begin to change in their little corner of the world.

Of course I could be wrong and nothing will rattle them.

:shrug:

[Massachusetts]

53. This is where the REAL DUMBING of AMERICANS

is taking place.


"Programs are under siege or dying from neglect. Many students do not get the opportunity to practice our basic freedoms."

To many parents have been worried about their kid being "Student Of The Week".


:scared:

[GiovanniC]

55. I Conducted a Test In a College Sociology Class

It was supposed to compare news viewing habits, gender, and general knowledge of current events for college-aged students (19 to 25, roughly). It found that most had no clue what was going on in the world around them. The questions were very simple fill-in-the-blank questions ripped directly out of top news stories from television, cable news, major newspapers (Wash. Post, USA Today, LA & NY Times), radio (NPR), and the Internet (google, yahoo!).

Average score among males was 7.45 out of 25, and 5.67 out of 25 for females. Questions (which were topical at the time) ranged from winners of Democratic primaries, the Martha Stewart trial, the unrest in Haiti, the winner of the Superbowl, gay marriage in Massachussetts and San Francisco, the sniper in Ohio, the Mars rovers and more.

82% of all males and 75% of all females could not name ONE of our US Senators. More than half knew the stars of "The Simple Life" and could name the first and last name of each character on Friends and identify the actor who played them.

People who listened to NPR scored nearly twice as well as those who got their news from all other sources. Newspaper readers came in second. Cable news (surprise, surprise) came in dead last, nearly tied with those who didn't pay attention to ANY news sources.

[Damien]

64. out of curiosity

what state was this in? How old were most of the kids? Not that the results suprise me, but I'm curious.

[GiovanniC]

69. The State Was Michigan, and the Ages Were College-Aged (19 to 25, mostly)

[Damien]

71. interesting

sad, but interesting. thanks. I'm a college student myself, and I know this is true.

[shantipriya]

56. Morons

I wonder where the majority of these students are located. Red Sates I suppose!!!

[Solly Mack]

57. so who's teaching them that ignorance?

[Cocoa]

58. good news for the right wing

the ignoranter the better.

Ignorant enough, you have a great shot at being the RW's idea of a great president.

[peterh]

59. when you have little hitlers on an increasing number of school boards....

dictating curriculum and combined with an increasing number of fascist parents on PTA’s…..ta da….

I do believe there is a hidden or not-so hidden agenda to sway the view from a liberal (accurate) to a conservative (askew) picture. College campuses have been on a well documented hit list with conservatives, whereas, grade schools and high schools have been for the most part trying to stay under the radar screen, but has risen above it of late…

The big picture is that Religion is incompatible with freedom and democracy….religion is about control of thought and uncompromising rules, hence, a slight conflict with the 1st amendment not to mention possibly other parts of the constitution….

[Hissyspit]

66. This Needs To Be On Front Page, I Believe

[orthogonal]

75. DUers say it goes too far too

Anybody recall all the DUers who were cheering about anti-gay Christians facing 47 years in jail in Philadelphia for exercising their free speech at a Gay Pride Day event?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

77. You don't get 47 years in jail

for using your free speech rights. They must have made threats or broke some other laws.

[Spacejet]

78. No, you don't understand

According to the right physically injurying/killing GLBT people IS "free speech".

[orthogonal]

86. Martin Luther King was a law-breaker too

They must have made threats or broke some other laws.

They are charged with, I believe, uttering "fighting words" -- which is to say, they may go to jail because their listeners wanted to punch them for exercising their rights.

But I'm surprised by your comment for more fundamental reasons: surely, a poster of DU doesn't;'t believe that the government is always right, or that all laws are just, or that all laws are applied fairly and without bias by a prosecutors prejudices or politics?

Martin Luther King also "broke some laws" -- laws he later convinced many of are unjust, but laws nonetheless. Surely you'd not dismiss Dr. King as merely a "law-breaker" without looking into the circumstances under which he was charged.

But when it's fundamentalist anti-gay Christians who are charged, the normal DU skepticism of government action, the desire to judge the justness of an arrest on one's own without necessarily trusting the government's or mainstream media's opinion, is thrown out the window.

You just accept the government line: "They must have made threats or broke some other laws."

Why are you so willing to trust the governemtn on this? Where is the outrage against injustice that makes DU so valuable?

[Spacejet]

91. You know

"They are charged with"

"I believe" - Key words here. Maybe you should get all the facts before you go off on this?

"Martin Luther King also "broke some laws" -- laws he later convinced many of are unjust, but laws nonetheless. Surely you'd not dismiss Dr. King as merely a "law-breaker" without looking into the circumstances under which he was charged."

Wow. Comparing MLK to right wing bigots. Nice way to disgrace his name. These people have NOTHING in common with MLK. Your comparison is BS.

[Spacejet]

79. This isn't surprising, as someone who just graduated from HS

I can tell you the "students have no rights what so ever" mantra has sunk in.

School now is basically an instrument of the state and corporations to prepare people for there life of corporate servitude. In fact, this WAS the mission statement of my grade schools. Not in those words, of course, but same thing worded nicer. The point is NOT to learn how government works. NOT to learn anything BUT what would be helpful for a corporation.

Students have next to no constitutional rights in school, and they are taught that. So why would they think they have rights when they leave when they've been taught them don't?

Ironically, a republican told me it best - we don't have schools anymore, we have trade schools. And that goes for everything from pre-k to college.

[kath]

115. Right on, Spacejet. The things you mention are some of the main reasons

that I'm really glad we homeschool.

[Guns Aximbo]

81. Ahhh, it warms my cockles to hear the Kinder repeat

the propaganda they've learned at the Hitler Youth meetings

[GoddessOfGuinness]

82. Give them 6-10 years...

The majority of that 1/3rd will figure it out.

[Endangered Specie]

87. Well, I wish those 33% would put their money where their mouth is...

and shut up! ;)

[LilBitRad]

89. Kick for later read after work n/t

[RedCloud]

92. They were once called greaser morans.

What can you expect from those who get off watching Iraqi prisoner abuse porno?

[Sean Reynolds]

93. Since when was 33% many?

MANY more share a different view. I hate articles like this.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

118. Yeah, but later on in the article

it says that half of American teenagers think new stories should be required to get government approval. That's the scary part.

[progressoid]

96. 33% of teens have dumbass freeper and ditto-head parents

[ultraist]

97. Geeez...and I thought it was bad in the early eighties.

I thought we were experiencing a backlash in the early eighties with all of the little Reagan wanna be yuppie types. "Look out for #1" was the most popular phrase of the era.

It seems that things are even worse now. I suppose the public schools have done a fine job indoctrinating our children. 'Compliance and obediance' have replaced 'question authority' and 'dissent is patriotic.'

Frightening...

[indepat]

99. May I invite them all to just leave, to go somewhere more to their liking?

[Borgnine]

100. I'm 21.

I'm not too far removed from the teenage world, and I can attest that these figures sound about right. However, you have to remember this is only 33%, and that pretty much squares away with the adult population as well.

Still, a lot of teenagers, especially today, take a lot of things for granted. I have a feeling this will be the last generation to do that though, especially where the Republicans are planning on taking us.

[Igel]

103. The school I went to the student paper editorials

were either in favor of all speech (1st amendment) or against "hate speech": articles, tracts, forums, lecturers that were anti-gay, anti-affirmative action, etc.

When the frat slate won student government, the drive for speech codes faltered and flagged. When the student advocacy group slate won, the administration was beleaguered until it set up a committee to make regulations to ensure that nobody could be offended. (I left before the committee came up with draft recommendations.)

[0rganism]

104. Alternate spin: TEEN MANDATE FOR THE FIRST AMENDMENT!!!

When 50% of Americans vote for shrub, he has a Mandate Special with a side order of Destiny.

So if 2/3 of teenagers see the First Amendment as not going too far, then we can presume a RAGING FULL-ON MANDATE FOR FREE SPEECH among the youth of America.

[d_b]

105. That sounds about right.

[eagler]

106. These teens should not be allowed to

critcize the first amendment.

[LWolf]

109. I am dismayed.

But I'm sure not despairing. I can assure you that the 10-11 year-olds in my 5th grade classroom, who are formally introduced to the Constitution & Bill of Rights for the first time in school as 5th graders, will not be silenced. They will not be among those 1/3.

[Flapjacks]

112. Mis-understanding the Bill of rights cuts both ways

There are plenty of young people who don't understand the Bill of Rights. Actually the so-called "Freepers" probably understand their freedom of speech better than most teenagers in school. I'd be willing to bet that most of that 1/3 or so are probably referring to speech that is considered "Hate Speech" (i.e. anti-homosexual and the like). When it comes to free speech, I agree with Voltaire, who was attributed the following: "...I hate what you say, but I would defend to the death your right to say it." Truth be told, our country owes a great deal to philosophy of Voltaire.
Bottom line, we need to put in to practice freedom of speech in schools. Our children only see their freedom of speech stifled.

[Skittles]

119. LOL - freepers?

they know nothing about freedom of speech; they would love to shut up Kennedy and Hillary and Boxer.

[Blue_State_Elitist]

114. I'd like to see the percent of teens that know what the first amendment is

That might give us a better perspective.

[IndianaGreen]

122. I wonder how many of them think that Evolution is an unproven theory

and believe that Creationism, or "intelligent design," should be taught in science classes.

Just trying to determine the moronic level of our schools.

[flaminbats]

125. we're doomed!

these opinions didn't just appear, they were handed down and spread by nuts. How many of the students have not been taught about the holocaust and slavery? How many of these respondents will be our nation's future leaders?

[Charon]

126. 1 in 3 teens

Does any know what the distribution of those polled was by state, ethnicity & gender?

[architect359]

127. silent revolution

The best way to effect change in a society is to go after the next generation. Totalitarian regimes that have been more or less successful (and I don't mean to promote this type of governance. I mean "successful" as in staying in power - not being toppled by another group in a matter of months or few short years).

Take a look at Mao's cultural revolution. OK, this is an extreme example but my point is this: The vanguard of the cultural revolution were young people indoctrinated to think that the old values or old ways of thinking were not in the best interest of their society. Never underestimate the power of the idealism of youth - we know that it is a good thing but it can also be so easily perverted into something else altogether.

Nazi Germany of the 30s was like this, the old Soviet regime was like this, the ex-Taliban regime was like this, Iran at one point was effectively ruled this way - at present, they seem to be moving away, I don't know if it because of people power or policy revisions. I want to say North Korea too BUT, they seem to be their own special case, I don't know. I think that North Korea is the same way, the populace is taught that their leader is akin to a god; he will protect them from the enemy, etc.

I really don't think that there is an active effort to effect the education / values of our next generation but I do know that with program cuts in the creative arts (which provide analytical thought as well as creative individual expression), also in subjects that deals with world geography and history (these topics help us ground ourselves in the context of...well, the world.), we have created individuals that become easily manipulated. What about civics? This teaches us the real meaning of the codes that were originally laid down to form our nation and it means to be a citizen with all it's rights and privileges.

To top it all off, we have the perpetual youth angst to always rebel against the establishment. It has always been so and it will always be so. Hopefully, we give them the tools to understand why certain things are such and so. Hopefully, we teach they NOT to react without thinking, but how can we huh? How can we when we've cut funding because of cost? How can we when we have to dumb everything down to the lowest common denominator?

It is unsettling in my view point that in a country that was founded on idealism and had became an example to the world of a better society has become cynical, sarcastic, and so ready to discard our freedom (freedoms we espouse to bring to the world at that!) without even understanding the implications! *#$*^#*^$(^@#($^ argh!

I apologize as this has become more of a rant and is starting to go off on tangents. Every time, I see surveys or studies that indicate problems with our education system, I get, well, pissed; because it shouldn't have to be this way. Really. It shouldn't.

[twenty2strings]

128. I remember the good old days...

Self imposed restrictions have and always will be part of society. Most times I don't say or express the things I think or feel. I don't think my ideas would be well received. That's the function of this forum. :hi:

[Catfight]

129. Same students failed "American Government," I'm certain. n/t

[paineinthearse]

130. See discussion in EDUCATION forum

There is a parallel thread running in the EDUCATION forum - see http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=219&topic_id=1210#1226