New Hampshire May Repeal Gay Hate Crime Law

[davidinalameda]

http://www.365gay.com/newscon05/01/013105nhHate.htm

Legislation before the New Hampshire legislation would repeal the state's groundbreaking civil rights law.

The state was one of the first in the nation to enact laws imposing stiffer penalties on those convicted of a hate crime on the basis of "religion, race, creed, sexual orientation, national origin, or sex."

But now, Rep. Elbert Bicknell (R-Deerfield) the repeal bill's sponsor, says that the law is unnecessary. Bicknell says that it is impossible for a jury to get into the mind of an attacker and determine that a hate crime had been committed.


what an utter load of crap--if they're going to repeal it for gays, repeal it for it every group

and it's not the jury's responsibility to "get into the mind of an attacker", it's the prosecution's. The jury is there to weigh the evidence presented by both sides.

[ET Awful]

1. Sorry, but if the accused is yelling derogatory comments such as

"Faggot", etc., it's pretty freakin' obvious what was going on in his mind. In most crimes of this nature, it's readily apparent why the crime was being committed.

Yup, a repeal is utter crap.

[sniffa]

2. it sounds famiLiar

to some of the 'repeaLings' during the demise of the weimar repubLic (and post weimar).

[eyesroll]

3. I'm not big on hate-crime laws in general, because it does criminalize

opinion (and it's not like murder, arson, intimidation, etc. aren't illegal already).

HOWEVER -- if we are going to have hate-crime laws at all, then, yes, sexual orientation should be included.

[oneold1-4u]

4. The party orientation

It is in the "good (hit the goons) republican manual". Those who follow will reap many rewards. Just hit every thing the master has hit upon and move up toward more power. he will love all that cause any dissent among the masses. he must still change the minds and mentality of far over half of the people. Any "little" thing helps their ugly strength.

[asthmaticeog]

5. Warning!!!

Faith IS NOT knowledge.
Believers are ignorant of Cubic Creation
and will be destroyed by their own word.
All Creation occurs between Opposites.
On Earth between opposite hemispheres,
and for humans, opposites sexes. The 2
opposite sexes equate to 2 separate Cubes,
as if dice of femininity and masculinity -
equating Human Life to a Crap-Shoot
chance of exciting lifetime possibilities.
Academic and religious taught singularity
creation deserves a coming horrific hell.

I have demonstrated absolute proof
of "Cubic Creation", through its
attributes of 4 simultaneous 24 hour
days within a single rotation of Earth.

I have $10,000.00 that I will
wager that Cubicism transcends
and disproves Theism Creation.

Also, proof that humans are Cubic
forms that rotate a 4 corner face
lifetime, not an entity as the 4 corner
stage faces do not occur at the same
time for the 1 corner face individual.
There is absolute proof that Earth is
not an entity as Earth is composed of
2 opposite hemispheres (as in plus
and minus), that would cancel each
out if unified as an entity.  There is
proof that all humans exist between
the 2 opposites of femininity and
masculinity, and would cancel each
other out if unified as academic or
religious "singularity" - equating to
stupidity and suicide for humanity.

"Why something rather than nothing?"

[VegasWolf]

11. Not true, Cubic Creationism was long ago replaced by Hexagonal

Creationism.

[Damien]

21. i don't want to know

what any of you do with cubes, hexagons, or other shapes (especially not for "creation"). :spank:

[VegasWolf]

24. Okay, then how about Mobius Strip Creationism. n/t

[Damien]

28. i don't believe that would go anywhere

isn't it just kinda circular? doesn't seem to have a start or finish...

[VegasWolf]

31. Exactly, it represents the infinity of hell! n/t

[Wat_Tyler]

14. That's bullshit.

I've never been this angry with another DUer as I am now. HOW DARE YOU!

[Damien]

19. huh?

what's up with this thread? what are you mad about? i'm very confused

[Damien]

18. what the hell

does that have to do with anything on this thread?

[Beware the Beast Man]

6. What happen ?

Mechanic: Somebody set up us the bomb.
Operator: We get signal.
Captain: What !
Operator: Main screen turn on.
Captain: It's You !!
Cats: How are you gentlemen !!
Cats: All your base are belong to us.
Cats: You are on the way to destruction.
Captain: What you say !!
Cats: You have no chance to survive make your time.
Cats: HA HA HA HA ....
Captain: Take off every 'zig' !!
Captain: You know what you doing.
Captain: Move 'zig'.
Captain: For great justice.

[Dookus]

7. I couldn't agree more....

or less. I'm not sure.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

8. Lightining, thunder, ball of fire, 1980 and 8 future.

Mossiah Zodiac, the weather interpretor. Pipecock Jackson, Jack Lightning, Jesse the Hammer, Magnetic Abaja Perry. Push Bush alight, 'cause it is Lee 'Scratch' Perry who control all the American assets and world economic structure: The 100 cash index, all millions, trillions, zillions of dollars, and millions, trillions, and billions in pounds hijack and kidnap by Jesus Christ - my sweet prick who piss, and rain come; shake his cock, and lightning flash; fart, and thunder roll.

Seven seas and seven seal, Neptune world, nose code. I am the future - and all who doubt it, go and ask Satan: Lucifer, de Devil, Phantom Pluto, Lex Luther, the arch-criminal from Krypton (Phantom Zone Jail), where he escape in a pail of shit by drinking acid and turning into mercury, in Oblivion. But I came and I saw and I conquer. I came to London, England, Britian, and conquered. I capture Lex Luthor with my Teddy Bear, my hair, and my Invisible Chair, and my 144,000 Mosquito Angels what sting with lightning, psssst.

I, Pipecock Jackxon, Jack Lightning, Jesse the Hammer, Lee 'Scratch' Perry (Perry Lee: £ for pound, $ for Scratch, and 'D' for Daniel Dandelion the Lion; Jah, Jehoviah, Jah Rastafari the Crumbler; black supremacy, black music; the ghost of King Arthur and his sword, Excalibur - the oath of the King: 'Death before dishonor') put a curse on BBC radio and television, and BBC government that they can never overcome or undo until they repent and start playing Mr. Perry records morning, noon, night and day, and around the clock- tic toc.

[tigereye]

9. put down those Dr. Bronner bottles

and step away from the keyboard...

on the serious side, the arguments of the mentioned legislator wanting the appeal are absurd, tired and really reductionistic.

[terrya]

10. Thank you!! Somebody had to say it!!

Even though I'm not quite sure what "it" is.....

[sui generis]

12. ummmm, let's see:

if a straight person is hanging out around gay bars driving down the road screaming "faggot" and has pretended to be gay to pick up gay people and bash their skulls in with a baseball bat, I would say it's pretty clear what's going on in their mind.

So what if a gay person went crazy and started shooting heteros for no other reason than that they were straight and he hated them? I'll betcha they'd pull a hate crime right on up outta their ass in a heartbeat.

Stupid asses can never think to reverse the meaning of the protections they seek to destroy . . .

[ultraist]

13. That's really too bad...

MOTIVE is always a factor in criminal cases and a hate driven crime against an oppressed group should receive a bigger penality.

It's absurd to say, "we can't into the mind of a criminal." THEY ALWAYS LOOK AT MOTIVE.

If we don't punish hateful, violent discrimination IT WONT STOP!

Terrorizing an entire group of people goes beyond "hate crime" it is TERRORISM. WHY DON'T THEY CHARGE THEM AS TERRORISTS?

[justin899]

15. From the way I read the story that IS what they're proposing

I don't see where it says they're only wanting to remove sexual orientation from the legislation.

The 365gay headline reads "gay hate crime law" because their news stories are oriented to gay readership so it is from the point of view, but the way I read the story (both in this article and an independent article from another source) is that the proposal is to repeal the hate crimes statute (which would be a repeal for all groups currently protected under it).

At least that's the way I read it.

[struggle4progress]

16. Utah attorney general backs hate crime bill

By BLAIR DEE HODGES | assistant news editor
January 31, 2005


Surrounded by photographs of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff spoke to students and faculty at Weber State University Friday afternoon about the hatred that still exists today in the United States.

Shutleff offered his views on supporting a hate crime bill that is on its way to Utah's House of Representatives again for the fifth time in nine years. Utah is one of the only states in the country without a specific hate crimes bill in effect.

"I think it's great that you still have this display about Dr. King up, because it shows that we have come a long way," Shurtleff said, "but it also reminds us that hate and intolerance are still strong in this country, and that is what this bill is all about."

If passed, House Bill 50 will provide enhanced penalties for attacks motivated by bias or prejudice. Unlike other hate crimes bills, which have been rejected in the past, HB50 is more specific, in that it defines "bias or prejudice" as "intentionally selecting the victim based on race, disability, religion, sexual orientation, national origin, age, gender, or other categories." <snip>

http://www.wsusignpost.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/01/31/41fd92164fa35

[struggle4progress]

17. Grinding the FBI 2002 numbers suggests that NH has one of the highest ...

... hate crimes rates in the nation.

The rate from total hate crimes in the nation that year was about 3 reported hate crimes per hundred thousand of population. New Hampshire's rate was over 4 reported hated crimes per hundred thousand.

Raw data at http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/html/web/offreported/02-nhatecrime12.html

[ultraist]

23. Really? How interesting and I thought racism was worse in our red states

I wonder what the socio-economic indicators tell us about NH. Is there a smaller gap between educational and income levels of blacks and whites?

It's about time people start looking at how discrimination and racism is not just confined to the South and very possibly not worse in the South anymore.

Pretty pathetic for a state with VERY FEW minorities to have such a high hate crime rate. They really know how to terrorize groups and keep them in their place in some places, don't they?

Let's not forget the HOLOCAUST where millions were put to death due to their religious orientation.

Oppression of a group of persons through VIOLENCE is NOT the same as a random crime.

[struggle4progress]

30. I've never claimed racism in the US was a purely Southern ...

... problem. Remember the white-trash anti-bussing riots in Massachussetts in the mid 70s?

[ultraist]

29. Hate Crimes: Blue State vs. Red State

New York Population: 19,154,571 # of incidents: 693
North Carolina Population: 8,242,488 # of incidents: 62

The population in NY is a little over double that in NC yet there were 10x the number of hate crimes in NY.

[orthogonal]

20. Good

Repeal "hate crime" laws for all groups.

If you bash in my head to get my purse, it injures me just as much as if you'd bashed my head in because you don't like who I am.

"Hate crime" laws come far too close to punishing thought: everybody has a fundamental right to believe what they believe, even if it's that blacks are inferior to whites or that gays are going to hell.

Additional punishment for hate crimes is additional punishment for the attacker's beliefs, and punishment for belief is inconsistent with liberty.

[davidinalameda]

22. everyone has the right to believe what they want

but no one has the right to beat the crap out of me for being gay, and yes, I've been threatened and yes, I've had friends who have been attacked for no other reason then they're gay

[mudderfudder77]

25. Well then...

They were prosecuted for battery. Why does it matter why they hit you? Battery is Battery, Assault is Assault; what does it matter whether or not they are racist or homophobic at the time they are beating you, does it hurt less if they are only after your money? We're allowed to have any fucked up thoughts we can fit in our mind, only when we act should we be punished, hate crimes punish the thought.

[VegasWolf]

26. ""Hate crime" laws come far too close to punishing thought", hate

crimes by definition are actions not thoughts.
I am all for additional punishment for people who
advocate hatred.

[sui generis]

32. you've hit the nail on the head

and I'd go one further:

If a certain kind of thought causes you to commit a crime, it should be punished.

We already do it to child molesters by arbitrarily extending their prison sentences, and by not allowing them near children and requiring ongoing psychiatric evaluation.

Why not do it for the sick bastards who would beat a child into a coma and leave him tied to a fencepost in freezing weather? For the disgusting human filth that would prey upon someone's loneliness for the opportunity to bash their head in with a hammer or a baseball bat?

I don't know how that level of mental pathology is any different from a child molester, so we really do need hate crimes laws as much as we need laws that recognize the issues and pathologies surrounding child molestation.

[ultraist]

27. Uh...last time I looked discrimination and terrorism were illegal

Targeting someone due to their race, gender or sexual orientation is terrorism and SHOULD recieve a bigger penalty.

Lynchings affected more than just the black that was put to death by hanging and the grieving family. It terrorized the entire black race.

The young gay guy that was crucified affected more than just him and his family, it affected ALL GAYS.

These crimes are NOT the same as isolated random crimes.

[renaissanceguy]

33. Excellent point.

The fundamental argument here should be whether or not ALL hate crimes should be included in law or repealed. If you protect certain minority groups, then you have an obligation to protect ALL of them.

Yes, it hurts just as much if someone bashes your head in randomly or because you're gay. But ultraist makes an excellent point: when a hate crime occurs, it is often premeditated, and it affects the WHOLE minority community.

Picture it this way.... In Chicago, there were two slayings of gay men over the past year. To this day, no one is sure if both murders were committed by the same suspect (no suspect has been arrested or found). What we do know is that both victims had been at the bars the night they were murdered. For a long time, the gay Chicago community was afraid that there was a homophobe/nutcase going around picking up guys at bars. Thus, while this may or may not have been a hate crime in actuality, just the thought of it stirred up an entire community.

http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.14744291