DJ Pope John Paul II Taken To Hospital- TV

[cthrumatrix]

just came across a reuters tube ....no link yet


NEW YORK (Dow Jones)--Pope John Paul II, who cancelled his appointments Monday
because of a bout with the flu, was taken to a Rome hospital Tuesday night,
according to television reports.
The Vatican said the move was taken as a precaution, NBC News reported from
Rome.

[Walt Starr]

1. MSNBC has it right now

Only one of the cable whore channels with this news right now.

[muriel_volestrangler]

2. Just said on on BBC TV too

said it is confirmed by the Italian press.

[MADem]

7. They're hauling him all the way to Gemelli Hospital

...yet saying it ain't serious.

Sounds like pnuemonia to me, at least. They've got everything they need to treat him at home, he must be in pretty bad shape.

[henrik larssonisking]

24. yup if hes on his way to Gemelli

its must be bad.

[cliss]

49. I'd say the Pope is

about to pop his clogs.

[Donailin]

106. first thing I thought too, Pnuemonia.

Which oddly enough can be made worse in a hospital. I know a few seniors who passed away because their stay in the hospital exposed them to even more germs.

[Name removed]

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[henrik larssonisking]

4. not funny in any way at all

[Walt Starr]

11. Many people do not consider this pope to be a good man

Many people look at him the way much of DU looks at Bush.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

16. and many DO look at him as a great man..can we please not turn....

this thread into a Catholic bash?...not that you were bashing Walt ...I'm just using this post to plead for some sensitivity here

[Walt Starr]

27. Many look at Bush as a great man

and I personally do not have a high opinion of Karol Józef Wojtyla. In fact, he is little better than Bush, IMO.

[arcos]

37. I agree... I respect those who think highly of him...

but I won't be sorry when he's gone.

[mom cat]

97. Depends on who replaces him.

[arcos]

115. Sadly, you are right...

I hope John Paul II is not remembered as a great liberal, because that would say lots of whoever replaces him...

[calimary]

117. Hoooeeee - that is SO true!

If they put in another reactionary, it'll just be more of the same. And MAN does my poor, battered, idiotic, mind-numbed church need a breath of fresh air. New thinking. New mindset. New leadership.

At least JP2 was against the war. And he finally got around to apologizing to Gallileo. Which was nice. But there was SO much left to be desired. I think when he was chosen, it was a chance to take a big hard smack against the then-floundering Soviet Union as the Solidarity movement in Poland was starting to flower. I remember so much being made of having a Polish pope.

Hope he doesn't linger. Long dragged-out passings are just a lousy thing all around. I'm not a JP2 hater, but I'm not a raging fan, either. Even so, it was good to have his voice out there against the war, and rebuking bush when he needed to be knocked down a few hundred thousand pegs.

[piece sine]

44. If we must criticize the Pope

as he lay dying, can't we all simply voice our disagreement with Papal and Catholic Church policies and not turn it into personal debasement of this man.

[Walt Starr]

54. As he lay dying?

We don't know that. He went to the hospital for the flu. He could live another decade for all we know.

I disagree with the man and his policies. He's the leader of a "nation" and religion. I have a right to disagree with him.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

55. ya know, last sunday when i saw the 2 peace doves he released and .....

one flew back inside, twice no less...i said to my husband "that gave me a feeling that PJII time is short"

[msanthrope]

121. Yes, this is exactly what I thought, too, n/t

[Name removed]

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[Melynn]

81. Before people start comparing the Pope to Bush

Maybe they should know that there has been rumors of late that say the Pope was against the Iraqi war and that the Pope thought that Bush was the anti-Christ.

I don't know how much stock you would put in such rumors but they have been out there for a while. :shrug:

[Name removed]

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[alcuno]

94. "If you go to war with Iraq, you go without God."

This was in the letter that the Holy Father sent with his envoy to *. The anti-Christ part is the rumor. The other is fact.

[Melynn]

95. That was what I thought too

I could see the Pope being against the Iraq war. The Pope was very liberal on certain social issues like war.

The anti-Christ part sounds like B.S. to me.

[arcos]

116. he was openly against the war, since the beginning... nt

[Jonathan_Hoag]

124. No rumor

At least on the Iraq war thing. He was very outspoken against it.

Don't know about the antichrist thing. I do not think Catholics are so eager to identify the Antichrist like some Evangelicals are (like LaHey and other Premillenialists)

Also he could have gotten the clue from Spanish Catholics about condoms. I think the pope is the single most responsible individual for spreading of AIDS in poor countries where Catholics still listen to the guy.

[n2mark]

25. Speak for yourself

[Walt Starr]

28. You're free to disagree

just as Republicans are free to disagree with me with regards to *.

[pacifictiger]

119. that catholic church

hierarchy contains many flaws. In terms of historical comparison, this pope is streets ahead of those that have gone before.

[RPM]

12. he's been going for a long time

i don't see where the humor was in that

[Name removed]

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[roguevalley]

52. I am worried about the secessor. This pope was conservative

but I hear the next one in line is positively medieval. That is what worries me now.

[Walt Starr]

56. 1,000 to 1 it will be a cardinal from Latin America

I'll betcha anything.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

63. i've heard rumors it will be ratzinger...he is an radical conservative...

much in the stripe of Opus Dei

[Zynx]

64. He's so old he wouldn't last long.

[Donailin]

111. Rumor has it Ratzinger,

practically the most conservative backward and political Cardinal there is, may replace JP2. As a baptized Roman Catholic who has fallen away from the Church since I learned and saw what lengths they would go to to protect child molestors, this won't be bringing me back into the fold anytime soon.

IMO, this Pope rendered the Chruch irrelevant. He should have been more adamant against the war, more adamant and intolerant of priests using the cloth and collar to sexually abuse children and not retiring when it was clear that he was not well enough to lead the faithful into the 21st century.

[Name removed]

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[saigon68]

122. Adios

[Name removed]

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[Lex]

10. ohhhhh

:spank:

[donheld]

13. I'm on your side

Don't spank raggedcompany :evilfrown:

[Lex]

15. Raggedcompany is enjoying it

--can't you tell by the look on his little smilie face?

[raggedcompany]

17. hmm. First time I've had a post deleted.

I guess dark humor isn't allowed. Duly noted.

[Lex]

18. The spanking smilie

:whispers: was my way of laughing at your dark humor.

[Name removed]

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[donheld]

9. Link

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6886516/

[Kelvin Mace]

14. The Vatican is just like TASS in the old days

By the time they actually admit the guy is dead, he's been stone cold about a week.

[Name removed]

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[earthside]

20. Media Frenzy

If Karl W. shuffles off this mortal coil ... be prepared for a media frenzy bigger than when Reagan kicked the bucket.

And Bush and Rove will milk it for everything they can to cozy up to the Catholic vote for 2006.

[Name removed]

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[Lex]

29. Tolerance?

Just like the Pope was tolerant of me.

Wait, I forgot--he condemned me to hell.

[BamaLefty]

30. He he

:D

[Maine-ah]

34. I was never baptized or anything, so according to them I'm

going to hell or is it limbo? I can never remember which. At least thats what my catholic grandmother said. {edit} Though I do know many good catholics, this was in no way to be derogatory towards all, there are bad apples in every bunch:-)

[ElsewheresDaughter]

45. you know, it would be the decent thing just to ignore this thread?

you have informed us a number of times already how you feel and i respect that ..but must you keep harping and harrassing those of us who might like to discuss it without intimidation?

make nice?

[Lex]

50. I'm "harping and harassing" you?

Hmmmm.

Interesting perspective. Sorry, I didn't mean to do so.

Please accept my most humble apologies.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

57. i'm sorry i meant to respond to the post you responded to.

[AngryOldDem]

53. Agreed n/t

[Dorian Gray]

129. When was that?

The Pope has NEVER condemned anyone to hell. He has spoken of God's mercy, many times. If he believes that some of your practices are sinful, that's one thing. And disagree with that. But, he's NEVER condemned anybody to hell.

I get that people don't like him or his beliefs. That's fine. If he believes that birth control is sinful, homosexuality is sinful, or anything else is sinful, and we disagree, fine. But, he has never purported to condemn anybody to hell. He doesn't have the power to do so, and he has faith in God's infinite mercy.

[Occulus]

21. I've disagreed with the Church,

I've said some bad things about the organization- but this is an old man who truly believes his faith and going down from the flu is just plain undignified. I for one wish him well, as one human to another.

May he recover as swiftly as his age permits.

[Jersey Devil]

32. Being reported on Reuters

http://www.reuters.com/printerFriendlyPopup.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=7504298

[DrWeird]

33. I wouldn't give him that much longer.

Having seen Parkinson's first hand, I'm surprised he's still around.

How long do they usually take between the old pope dying and them electing a new one? Days? Weeks? This will be my first new pope.

[DoYouEverWonder]

38. Days

the only thing I'm afraid of is that the next one will be worse, much worse. Especially if Opus Dei has their way.

[DrWeird]

40. Yeah, due to the Pope's senility...

whoever's been pulling the ropes has been advocating some pretty fucked up stuff. Unfortunately.

[Jersey Devil]

41. Parkinson's is NOT senility

It is a debilitating disease to be sure but it has nothing to do with senility. Though often accompanied by it, it is a separate issue.

[DrWeird]

43. senility. noun.

1. Old age.

2. The mental and physical deterioration associated with aging.

The Pope's not in control of his own faculties. These "messages" coming from the Pope are most definitely not coming from the man. If the Pope's asking for anything, it's likely euthenasia.

[Name removed]

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[saigon68]

123. Adios

[DemBones DemBones]

126. John Paul II still keeps a busy schedule, saying Mass, meeting with

people. His bodily health has deteriorated but there's no evidence of mental deterioration. He sometimes has difficulty talking above a whisper but it's a fair bet that he still reads and speaks more languages than all of us who've posted in this thread.

And I can assure you that the Holy Father would never ask for euthanasia. He understands that aging and illness are a part of life and he has continued to work despite his infirmities. He's an inspiration to all the disabled people who want most to be able to participate in the world as fully as possible.

[Name removed]

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[Cooley Hurd]

39. IIRC, about 2-3 weeks...

...back in '78, we went through a couple of pope picks.;)

[AngryOldDem]

46. It depends

There's really no set timetable for election. I believe JPII was elected pretty quickly, but some have taken a long time.

[jmowreader]

92. Sometimes it takes years

The College of Cardinals has to convene on the Vatican first, and then they start arguing.

[davidinalameda]

35. I for one won't be sorry to see him go

sorry--that's how I feel

it has nothing to do with the Catholic Church nor its members but the leadership

[seventythree]

36. Saint Malachi

what is that last prediction? The pope which will be next to the last will have something to do with an olive I believe? Gloria Oliva? Or maybe that is to be the last -- anyone recall? We always wondered if it would be a Benedictine as the olive branch, I believe, is their symbol. Could be one who presides over peace. This Pope has had a long and successful reign; may his health condition not cause him any pain.

[cliss]

69. Exactly what I was thinking, 73.

I'll try to find the prediction. It was very interesting.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

72. the prophesy is he will be a Peter either it will be his birth name or ...

his taken name and he will be the last Pope....the first and the last
:shrug:...if you believe that kind of stuff

[seventythree]

130. looked it up

You are right. The last Pope is to be Petrus Romanus who will reign over the destruction of the 7 hilled city, Rome. Pope Pius the X also, allegedly, had the same vision. John Paul II's successor is called "Gloria Olivae." St Benedict 6th century prediction was that a member of his order would lead the church in its fight against evil just before the apocalypse. The Benedictine order is known by the name, Olivetans. As the Jews are also symbolized by the olive branch, some think this Pope will reign over peace in the Middle East, or even the conversion of Jews. I actually think there is more to be said about self-fulfilling prophecy than true prognostication. I just find it interesting and in a world of right wing Christians hankering for the "rapture", it's good to be aware of group think.
Interestingly, I heard a commentator the other night say that the church has been in tumult, as this Pope is very much a strict interpreter of doctrine, not allowing for any reforms, and that maybe a new Pope will bring peace to the church. My ears perked up. Even if he weathers this medical storm, he is elderly, frail, and declining so a new Pope can't be far off.

[NashVegas]

51. Hey DUers

I know there are many of us who have very strong feelings where the leader of one of the world's largest religious denominations is concerned, and those feelings bear the range from great respect to outright scorn.

Both and all are entitled to their opinion. No one is entitled the right to prance all over other DUers' sensibilities for the fun of it. Even those who have personal issues with the church, and for good reason, are asked to treat this matter with some respect at this time. Those who have personal issues with those who have personal issues with the church (oy!) are asked to treat those who feel differently, equally with respect that not everyone shares your opinion, either.


Thanks.

[Name removed]

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[ElsewheresDaughter]

59. well said!...thank you and i especially enjoyed the "(oy)" lol i wanted to

breathe for you :7

[Name removed]

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[andyg]

61. Not to be a downer but i think this is more then the flu!

[Walt Starr]

68. It hasn't been announced that it is anything other than the flu

He's been in the hospital numerous times with worse ailments.

[DrWeird]

71. Yeah, but I think it's reasonable to expect...

that this time it's not just the flu.

[Zynx]

74. 84 year olds, particularly ones in his condition, have a hard time with

the flu. Many thousands die in this country every year. The body can only take so much after a while.

[Walt Starr]

77. Which is why, I would suspect, they took him to the hospital

as younger people reuperate from the lfu generally in the comfort of their own home.

[Walt Starr]

62. I've looked at what he's done

That's why I dislike the man.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Zynx]

67. He may have been hard line internally, but externally he has been open.

Sure, he's conservative about church doctrine, but he has gone to great lengths to heal the wounds of centuries of religious conflict between the various Christian denominations and he has also reached out to non-Christian denominations. He was the first pope to do this.

[Jersey Devil]

70. I don't know if non-Catholics truly understand

that a Pope is not free to do whatever he wants to do and must deal with layers and layers of bureacracy and tradition built up over the millenia.

While I am nominally a Catholic but not a practicing one and disagree with a great deal of church dogma, I look at this man and see only a good man with a good heart who has tried to lead the world to peace and the souls of the faithful to salvation. How anyone could be resentful of him is beyond my understanding.

[Name removed]

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[Walt Starr]

76. The Catholic Church is certainly not the root of all evil in the World

Pat Robem$ome is.

[DrWeird]

79. It's exactly because I respect the Catholic Church

that I criticize those that degrade it.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

75. agreed

[Lex]

83. Anti-stem cell research, Anti-Choice, Anti-condom (in the face of HIV),

Anti-birth control (in countries that desperately need it), not to even get into Homophobia, etc.

These are not just Catholic issues, but issues about how Religion and Progressives must cross paths.

I think the Pope serves as a lightening rod for these issues, considering what he has said as Pope and head of the Catholic Church.

That said, I wish no ill will on an old man who is dying.

[Jersey Devil]

89. You cannot use litmus paper to test an ocean

I disagree strongly with the church's positions on all the issues you mention, yet in the big picture I think he has been good for the church and good for the world, a man of peace and a man of faith that others would do well to emulate.

[DemBones DemBones]

127. Amen to that. Unfortunately, a lack of knowledge rarely

stops people from speaking.

[JerseygirlCT]

112. He HAS done some good

however, he remains a bigot when it comes to women. Women get flowery language and a firm push back in their place.

I don't wish him any harm, but I do wish he would open his eyes and see the immense harm he's done and change.

[Hobarticus]

78. Lookit all the deleted posts...must some kinda record...eom

[Cooley Hurd]

80. We interrupt this flamewar - UPDATE on Pope's condition...

Vatican says Pope admitted to hospital, had "breathing crisis." Vatican calls this an "acute respiratory infection."

From CNN Vatican correspondent (on Lou Dobbs).

Doesn't sound very good, IMO...

[Sgent]

84. NBC Nightly News

Said that he was suffering from Layrnx Spasms. Not good.

The only reasons I could see for him needing to go to a hospital is a fear of acute respritory or other organ failure, or needing a respirator. The can get nursing support and IV fluids, as well as a visiting doctor, at the Vatican.

This Pope, good or bad, has been one of the most liberal in Catholic history. I am not prepared to write off all the good he has done because I happen to disagree with some of his policies.

[cap]

87. not liberal pope...

the Pope has done some really great things foreign policy wise but not in terms of dogma -- very conservative.

[happynewyear]

114. you are right

When Pope John Paul II was chosen in 1979 I believe it was, he brought a breath of fresh air to the Catholic church. Many things did change but few remember I suppose.

Divorce - there are now workshops for Catholics getting divorced. Prior to Pope John Paul II, divorce was certainly not the topic for a Catholic workshop.

Women: They used to have to wear a head covering/veil when going to the Church. Now they don't have to cover their heads.

Confession: Much less a requirement these days. Confessions tend to be by appt. rather than a mandatory requirement before mass if you were to receive communion. Now, its between you and God.

I've noted many changes to the Church since the times of the 1950-1970s. I am certain the Pope was behind many of these changes which I view in a positive light.

In the meantime, I think it is horrible to bash a man that is ill and in the hospital - any man.

So I hope he gets better soon.

[Hardrada]

86. JPII has tried to be a force for peace

So he deserves credit there. A pity no one ever listened to him. I am still curious as to what exactly happened to JPI (I don't think the current Pope was involved) but it is still quite a mystery. I read a book on that once.

[Cooley Hurd]

88. He was killed in Godfather III...

...before he could stop the Vatican Bank dealie.:silly:

[Digit]

103. I wish him all the best

I am not a Catholic, but I hope he has a speedy recovery.

[Chicago Democrat]

85. The most important pope...

ever.

[alcuno]

93. The Holy Father is a rock of consistency. I believe that he deserves

the credit for the downfall of communism and he has never waivered when it comes to the teachings of the Church. Many may disagree with the Catholic Church, but I think that's for Catholics to deal with.

I'm praying that the Holy Father has the strength to recover and continue.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

96. that makes two of us ..and it was PJII and Solidarity that brought down...

"the wall"...NOT reagan...reagan merely gave a silly speech and pretended he was at jericho :puke:

[donco6]

90. Keeping my fingers crossed . . .

. . . and that's all I'm saying.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

108. I hope he survives too!

:thumbsup:

[Name removed]

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[happyslug]

98. Here is a list of the present Cardinals, the next pope will be one of them

A Cardinal can be a Cardinal-Bishop, Cardinal-Priest, or a Cardinal- Deacon. The real difference is minor. A Cardinal Bishop is the titular Bishop of one of the Seven Dioceses in Rome (Or a "Patriarch Bishop" which is related to the late Roman Empire Patriarchs of the Church). A Cardinal Priest is the titular Priest of a Parish in Rome. A Cardinal Deacon is a member of he Curia.

What is meant by the term "Titular" is that is the title position but someone else does the actual work. Thus H.E. Jean-Marie Cardinal LUSTIGER, Archbishop of Paris is also the titular Cardinal priest of the Roman Parish S Luigi dei Francesi. His real position is Bishop of Paris NOT parish priest of S. Luigi dei Francesi (Through S. Luigi dei Francesi is the French National Church in Rome). Why the Cardinals are set up the way their are is more history than theology, but at time important history.

Lustiger is consider one of the Contenders for the Next pope.

List of Today's Cardinals
http://www.catholic-pages.com/hierarchy/cardinals_list.asp

List of All Cardinals 1903 till present:
http://www.fiu.edu/~mirandas/a-z-all.htm

Background on the College of Cardinals:
http://www.catholic-pages.com/hierarchy/cardinals.asp

More on S. Luigi dei Francesi.
http://www.goporta.com/rome/StFrancesi.htm
http://www.italycyberguide.com/Geography/cities/rome2000/E41a.htm
http://web.tiscali.it/romaonlineguide/Pages/ita/rbarocca/sBHy4.htm

[ElsewheresDaughter]

100. i count 4 Peters amongst them...does Pedro & Pierre mean Peter?

[happyslug]

101. Unimportant, Remember John Paul II name was KAROL

Karol Wajtyla was the name used by the person we now call John Paul II prior to Karol becoming Pope John Paul II. Prior to Vatican II it was the rule that Nuns and Monk adopt a new name whenever their took holy vows. While it was NOT required of Priests, Priests and Bishops could also take on new names upon promotion to a new position. When it comes to the position of Pope adopting a new name has been the RULE more than the Exception.

As to the nuns and monks adopting new names that was from the Middle ages movement by the Catholic Church to break itself from the inbred families that dominated certain regions of Europe. By making monks and Nuns adopt new names, that new name indicated a break with their old family and entrance into a new one (The Catholic Church). Priests did NOT have to do this but it was not uncommon. The only bishop position that it has been common to change one's name has been the Bishop of Rome (i.e. the Pope).

For more on Cardinal Karol Wojtyla (Now John Paul II):
http://www.fiu.edu/~mirandas/bios-w.htm#Wojtyla

For more on Cardinal Albino LUCIANI (Pope John Paul I):
http://www.fiu.edu/~mirandas/bios-l.htm#Luciani

For more on Giovanni Battista Montini (Pope Paul VI):
http://www.fiu.edu/~mirandas/bios-m.htm#Montini

For more on Cardinal Angelo Giuseppe RONCALLI, (Pope John XXII):
http://www.fiu.edu/~mirandas/bios-r.htm#Roncalli

For more on Eugenio Maria Giuseppe Giovanni Eugenio Pacelli (Pope Pius XII):
http://www.fiu.edu/~mirandas/bios-p.htm#Pacelli

Note NONE of them took their "Christian name" as their Papal Name.

[seventythree]

132. Before Petrus Romanus

there is to be Gloria Olivae -- we've got time :)

[seventythree]

131. thanks

Wow -- only a handful are in their 60's, most are quite elderly. I clicked on a few but could find nothing about orders -- would you know if any are Benedictine?

[Minstrel Boy]

99. "Pope 'fighting for breath'"

Pope 'fighting for breath'

From correspondents in Rome
February 02, 2005
From: Agence France-Presse

POPE John Paul II was fighting for breath when he was taken to hospital in an emergency, Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls said today.

The Pope was taken to hospital last night with complications from a flu he had been suffering for days.

"The flu which has been affecting the Holy Father for three days was complicated with acute inflammation of the larynx and laryngo-spasm," a condition where one cannot catch one's breath, Mr Navarro-Valls said.

"For this reason it was urgently decided that he be taken to the Policlinico Gemelli which happened at 10:50pm (8.50am AEDT)," the spokesman said in a statement released shortly before midnight yesterday (Rome time).

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,12123871-23109,00.html

[Walt Starr]

104. That's defnitely not good

Hopefully he will recover.

[goodboy]

105. Well I hope the next Pope isn't Opus Dei...John Paul, I wish you well.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

107. Hail Mary, full of Grace. The Lord is with thee.

Blessed art thou amongst women.
And blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God
Pray for us sinners, now

Amen

Papa - I hope you pull through. If not I know you will be with both of your Mothers soon.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

110. Amen

[Tinoire]

120. Amen.

[JohnnyCougar]

128. Amen

[genieroze]

109. He should have had a flu shot at his age. eom

[kris10ep]

113. Having grown up Catholic and

having gone to Catholic school for 9 years, I'm going to throw my 2 cents in on this one.

I don't want what I am saying to getting taken out of context. I am NOT wishing death on this poor old man.

I am, however, of the opinion that it is time for a new wave in the Catholic church. One of my favorite things about the Catholic faith is the tradition of it all. All Christian faiths we have today developed from the beliefs of Catholicism.

But I have grown frustrated as I have grown up. Being 24 years old now and on my own, I've really thought about my faith and values in terms of how I really believe and not just how I was brought up. And while I really think the Catholic faith is a wonderful tradition, tradition must also adjust with the passage of time and development. No marriage for priests and no women clergy are my 2 biggest problems and 2 things that this pope won't budge on.

I send him many prayers and get well wishes, as he has served the Catholic community in so many commendable ways.

[Nigel_Tufnel]

118. Pope John Paul has unbelievable charisma...

and this is the opinion of a lapsed catholic who was dragged unwilling to see him in New York long ago. he has a personal magnetism unlike any i've ever seen. imagine, hysterical nuns pushing and shoving to get near him. i've never seen anything like it.

i wish he could've done more to bring the church into the 21st century. even my mom, who's religious as they come, thinks that priests should be able to marry.

[Name removed]

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