Fingerprint school lunch programs raise concern

[rainbow4321]

http://www.woio.com/Global/story.asp?S=2885663&nav=0rd1VqTJ


AKRON, Ohio - Several Ohio schools are identifying students who receive free or reduced-price school lunches by fingerprint -- a high-tech system that has been praised by school officials, but also questioned because of privacy concerns.


Akron Public School district leaders say the adoption of the system, dubbed iMeal, has resulted in more middle-school students taking advantage of free or reduced-price lunches because they don't have to hand over a ticket that identifies them as low income.

"Fingerprinting is for felons not for 5-year-olds," said Christine Link, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Ohio. "We're setting up for children that surrendering your fingerprints or other parts of your identity for school lunches is a good idea." Link said there's also the issues of identity theft or the prints being misused by law enforcement. "If Akron schools has every child's fingerprint on file, think how tempting that is to law enforcement," Link said.

Akron schools keep only a template of each student's fingerprint and deletes the original. Parents who do not want their children fingerprinted may obtain an opt-out form.

[htuttle]

1. Is theft of school lunches THAT much of a problem?

I mean, who would want TWO in a day? Is it going to be worth a retinal scan at some point? You need less ID to buy a gun!

Back when I was in the hot lunch program in it's early days, most students used a paper punch card ticket -- whether it was free hot lunch, or their parents had purchased the tickets. Nobody paid cash for lunch. Few could tell who got free lunch and who'd paid. I'm not even sure if they had a cash register until much later when they started adding 'ala carte' stuff.

on edit:
Here's a thought: How about they just feed every student that's hungry? You can't learn on an empty stomach anyhow.

[rainbow4321]

6. They're making it way more complicated than it has to be...

Our school just has their kids punch in their student ID number in when they get to the cashier and the amount of the lunch bought is subtracted from their lunch "bank account"..I can even access the account from my home computer and put more $$ in it as needed. So WHY has someone thrown fingerprinting into the mix??

[Sunny_Sunshine]

27. Back in the 80's I taught on the Navajo res

I had a student who would go through twice. Knowing something about the family, I was afraid it was the only meal he got so I didn't worry about it. I was shocked when another teacher noticed and had a fit - this didn't hurt anyone and the amount of food thrown away everyday was astronomical.

[pokercat999]

28. I'm really tired of this stupid fucking country

we can spend 40 BILLION a month in Iraq killing innocent civilians but can't give all school kids in the US a free lunch?

It's time for Democratic congressmen and senators to stand up and say enough! Or it's time we elect some that will.

[troubleinwinter]

2. What? No imbedded chips?

FINGERPRINTING CHILDREN for FOOD?!!??!!

[htuttle]

5. Yes, they want to make sure that children only get to eat...

... if they're entitled to. And it's apparently worth the cost of a high-tech fingerprint scanner to ensure this.

on edit:

You know, I bet that Food Not Bombs would be willing to set up a free chow wagon outside the school, but the cops would probably chase them off. Can't allow them children to get any food that aren't entitled to!

[daleo]

12. When they grow up, they can vote for food. n/t

[Undercover Owl]

3. This gadget isn't cheap.

What an EXCELLENT way to spend education dollars!!
:crazy:

[saigon68]

4. The Chimp said

"Keep those darkies away from the FREE FOOD"--

LOL

[LizW]

7. Who sells "iMeal" I wonder?

Someone's brother-in-law or campaign contributor, I'll bet.

The argument that they need to do this because students don't want to be identified as getting free or reduced-price lunches is bogus. There are lots of other systems that take care of this problem without resorting to fingerprinting. At my kids' schools, there is a keypad at the checkout. Every child has a lunch "account" with a number the kids memorize. Parents deposit money into the account and the children "charge" against it by punching in their number on the keypad when they check out. When the balance gets low the school sends home a slip letting us know. Kids who get reduced and free lunches get an account and a number just like everyone else. No one can tell who is on free lunch.

[rainbow4321]

11. The inventor can't even be Googled...

least in the way I was trying....lots of articles about Imeal but in all of them it just refers to them as "inventors" of imeal software. That is probably not a good sign that they don't want to be named.
Interestingly, though, the same software was used in a Florida school district but it was used as a "bussing and transportation" tool.
Given how much FUN we have had with SOFTWARE issues in BOTH of these states, I'd really, really like to know who invented this "software".

[Alenne]

8. This is stupid

At my children's school they use pin numbers so there are no tickets that identify the low income children.

In the story they say kids whose parents opt them out get a pin number instead. I'm wondering why they just didn't give everyone a pin number? Wouldn't it have been easier and cheaper to give every student a pin number instead of fingerprinting the whole school, making a template and transferring them onto computer software?

Just another way to get everyone's fingerprints on file.

[libnnc]

9. Good Lord that's the creepyest thing I've ever heard

It gets more Orwellian everyday doesn't it? Talk about shaming kids.

I remember those little white punch cards too. 80% of the kids in my school were on reduced or free lunches. I wasn't--we probably could have qualified but my Mom got mad everytime I brought home the application.

:shrug:

[Whoa_Nelly]

10. Could this affect confidentiality for SPEd/Needs students?

just wondering....In my experience, many of my SpEd students were eligible for and received free/reduced-price lunch.

[jmowreader]

13. We had punch cards too

IIRC there were daily tickets (you bought those if you usually carried bag lunch but maybe liked what they were having that day--pigs in a blanket day basically meant no one brown-bagged it), 5-day tickets and 20-day tickets.

The "hero" kids all had 20-day tickets--enough to last them the whole month. For some reason, we thought that having the 20-day ticket was the coolest thing. If you were on the free/reduced lunch program you had the 20-day ticket too, so you couldn't tell who was on the free lunch program. And the teachers kept the tickets, so no problems with kids losing them. You bought your ticket before lunch on Monday, gave it to the teacher right after you got it, and she passed them out just before lunch. The cashier collected them and handed them right back to the teacher.

All I can think is that this iMeal shit is REALLY fucking expensive. How many kids could you feed for the price of the system?

[LeftyMom]

16. That's how they did it at my school

Free lunches and prepaid ones looked the same. Kids who hasn't brought anything or didn't want what was served got PB&J and milk or juice. The cost of this setup would buy a whole lot of punchcards and peanutbutter.

[rainbow4321]

19. School's lame excuse: tickets lost...privacy concerns (yeah, sure)

This is their excuse for cards...but there should be NO excuse for just using a keypad and having them punch in a PIN number...our school has their kids use their student ID#


http://www.wcpo.com/news/2004/local/04/24/fingerprints.html

School leaders decided against using identification cards because they thought the cards would contain too much private information.

Then it might have become problematic if students -- who routinely misplace meal tickets -- lost their I-D cards.

[LeftyMom]

21. Our cards had the name, room # and 20 lunch slots.

No privacy concerns, everybody at school knew your name and classroom anyhow, it was a small school. In middle and high school they used the same cards but kids had to keep track of them themselves.

In elementary school every morning the cards were delivered in a manilla envelope and were distributed on the way out the door to lunch, collected by the lunch ladies and redistributed the following morning. It was really no big deal.

All it took was cardstock, a hole punch, some manilla envelopes and a pen. There was a bit of time invoved to redistribute the cards, but I'm sure the maintainace of a computerized fingerprint scanner takes nearly as much time (if not more.)

[jmowreader]

24. If you have the elementary kids hold the cards, you would have problems

In a large school this wouldn't work, but the Heyburn elementary school in St. Maries (the grade school I went to) still does it this way:

Step 1: each classroom is given a time to be at the lunch line.
Step 2: five minutes before that time, the teacher opens her desk and pulls out the stack of lunch tickets. Each student is given his or her lunch ticket, and they line up by the door.
Step 3: holding the ticket in their right hand (the handrail on the staircase leading to the lunch room is on the left), all the children walk to the lunchroom. The teacher follows the class.
Step 4: when the child gets to the lunch counter, he or she hands the ticket to the ticket-taker, who punches the ticket and puts it in a pile.
Step 5: when the teacher gets to the ticket-taker, she gets all of the lunch tickets back. The teacher gets to eat free because free lunch is one of the benefits Joint School District 41 gives its employees.
Step 6: after the teacher eats, she goes back to her classroom and puts the tickets back in her desk.

I say she, she, she because at this time there are no male elementary teachers in St. Maries. There have only ever been three of them in the history of the town.

Junior high and high school students are required to hold their lunch tickets, and some do get lost. Oh well, shit happens.

[burn the bush]

14. they are identifying the poor kids so they will have their prints on file

for later when they become felons.

[arikara]

26. Bingo

My thoughts exactly. With the dismantling and religifying of the social programs, there is going to be more crime in the future. This is a pilot program.

[MountainLaurel]

33. Or to draft them

Got to be able to track down the cannon fodder.

[LeftyMom]

15. A school here is tracking students' whereabouts with radio tags

I don't have a link yet but they showed it on the local news last night. It's a bit creepy, all these little kids with id tags hanging off thier necks that transmit thier location all the time.

[Divine Discontent]

17. here's a link

to a catholic (forgive me) website with lots of stuff they say they've found in the news about these things... (just don't click on any other link on the top or bottom! lol)

http://www.tldm.org/News4/MarkoftheBeast.htm

[LeftyMom]

20. Different school

The one I saw on the news was someplace near Sacramento. Yolo county I think.

[One_Life_To_Give]

34. When I was in school

we had a vice principal who could sniff out where the troublemakers were. No RFID required.

[Swamp Rat]

18. Gettin' the young'uns ready for fascism.

LIVE FREE OR DIE!!!!!!!!!

[UL_Approved]

22. The quiet battles

This is the line that separates precaution from persecution. ID numbers and a keypad would suffice, without identifying people or giving away free stuff.

Besides, these biometric scanners are not that great, and can be defeated with relatively inexpensive techniques. I seriously wonder if the system even works.

The "authorities" will have us all tagged and branded before too long. Literlly...

[carpediem]

23. that's awful - at my kids' school they get a number they punch

into a keypad. Noone knows anything about their account except the lunch lady operating the register/computer.

I think there is another, less admirable, reason they are using fingerprints and I think it is awful. My kids would be eating bag lunches that's for sure.

[Midlodemocrat]

25. That is an outrageous plan.

At my children's schools, elementary, middle, and high, if you are on reduced/free lunch no one knows, not even the cafeteria worker. Each child has an account and they give give the cafeteria worker the number if they are not paying cash. It allows parents to put money into the account over the internet, and the free and reduced price lunches are programmed by the guidance department via computer.

It works great and prevents panic if you don't have cash (which I never do) to pay for lunch and no bread for a sandwich.

[meow2u3]

29. No wonder 1/3 of high school kids think the 1st amendment goes too far

They've been brainwashed since childhood that freedom is bad and dictatorship is good.

[rocktivity]

30. Huh?

...more middle-school students (are)taking advantage of free or reduced-price lunches because they don't have to hand over a ticket that identifies them as low income.

"What we've accomplished is taking that stigma away," said Debra Foulk, coordinator of the Akron schools' Child Nutrition Services.

...When students go through the lunch line, they place their finger on a scanner that identifies them based on the stored template...

Unless ALL students have to put their fingers on the scanner, how does it remove the stigma?

:headbang:
rocknation

[InternalDialogue]

31. Let's just put RFIDs into the mashed potatoes

We can track the kids who have already eaten and then follow them home to make sure they don't dig toy guns out of the ground or watch lesbians make maple syrup.

[mudderfudder77]

32. Fingerprints - Not a good idea...

But a matrix isn't such a bad idea. No print is kept on file, rather a 16 digit number is used and corresponds to the finger that is pushed onto the pad...