Marine general: It is "fun to shoot some people..." Audience applauds.

[bobweaver]

At a panel discussion in San Diego Tuesday, a top Marine general tells an audience that, among other things, it is "fun to shoot some people.

"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for 5 years because they didn't wear a veil," Mattis continued. "You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."

Story and photo:
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/4153541/detail.html

[Bhaisahab]

1. and you wonder why Bush is your prezdint

on edit, from the report:

"Actually, its a lot of fun to fight. You know, it's a hell of a hoot. I like brawling."

guess we know who this shithead voted for, eh?

won't be a hell of a hoot when that bullet rips your dick off, general.

[teakee]

3. "Who are the people in your neighborhood?"

Skerry. :crazy: Thanks, Buchco.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[peacebird]

88. either that or frighteningly poor spelling....

[teakee]

161. No, it is just a version of spelling from another board where I belong.

Sorry if anyone was offended. I know how to spell scary. I'm a cross between a democrat and liberal; 80% Democrat but those liberals do have a way of endearing you to them.

[saigon68]

232. Adios

[The Zanti Regent]

45. Ask my dead son how much fun it is to get shot in Iraq!

Go ahead and ask him.

He's in the Los Angeles VA Cemetery!

[frictionlessO]

46. Nothing but empathy for you and your loss Zanti.....

there are no words.

peace

[adigal]

58. I am so very sorry

for the loss of your son. My thoughts are with you.

[jackster]

75. Zanti -

all my sympathies and heartfelt desire for your comfort

thank you for your son and your sacrifices

We are all more sorry than any of us can ever express

[CatBoreal]

102. I'm sorry Zanti....

I'm so very sorry.

[ultraist]

118. I'm so sorry. I simply could not imagine.

I have two children and cannot even begin to grasp what you must be going through. Losing a child has got to be the most painful experience any human can endure. You are a strong person!

Condolences and love to you and your family.

[Name removed]

182. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ClayZ]

186. My Prayers are with you

I am so sorry!

My neighbor tells me this is a great org!

Gold Star Families for Peace

http://www.gsfp.org/

My son was in the Navy 4 years then Army reserve 4 years to get his Medic certificate, and is now a Firefighter. I am afraid for him all the time.

God Bless You! I wish you Peace!

[Scairp]

246. This general is a disgrace to his uniform

And, by those comments, insults the memories of all those who have died in this illegal and immoral conflict. But what I was thinking is, if the other side thinks like that, they are the so-called "bad guys" but when our military leaders say it it's somehow "patriotic"? The hypocrisy is deep and smelly in this country. And I add my sympathies along with everyone else here Zanti.

[malachi]

54. What dick? Why do you think he likes brawlin' and killin'?

[purduejake]

104. As if this jerk is on the front lines anyway.

We all know he hasn't seen combat in a while... maybe just the aftermath, and that seems to be what he enjoys.

[hector459]

171. And don't forget he's probably a tithing evangelical too!

eom

[saigon68]

180. Michael Moore will feature this "FUCK FACE" in his next Movie

I think his comment will be played on hundreds of Arab TV stations to fire up the locals.

The same locals who will shoot the Balls off some below the curve "rustic" from Kentucky, who is out to "Grease" a couple of Rag-Heads.

[minorl]

226. Actually, Harrison Ford will play him in the upcoming movie.

I think it is an intentional ploy to stir up controversy, preparation for the new Harrison Ford movie.

As a Marine, I can attest to Gen Mattis's reputation...built on his warfighting prowess not his tact.

[Sterling]

239. No I think he is just a dumb ass and does not know when to STFU.

Seriously, this is the kind of guy that will get his men killed to show how big his dick is. This makes all Americans look bad. Not just the Jarheads. We have already been caught molesting people like perverts. We don't need morons like this going around making us look worse.

The brits seem to have a lot more class than our military leaders do. They kill just fine. They may even enjoy it but they are smart enough not to gloat about it in public. Maybe that is why they are not being targeted as much as our troops? Maybe they just deal with the situation more rationally?

[TaleWgnDg]

2. Yeah. And listen to 'em squeal, too !! n/t

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[theHandpuppet]

26. Um...

Was there anything in this article which may have hinted this four-star nutter was from the "West Virginia backwoods"? If you were attempting a "Deliverance" joke I do believe the setting for the novel was North Carolina... not that this guy was from NC, either. Stereotype much?

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[theHandpuppet]

36. Since you asked...

Since you asked, most of those charged were from Maryland, Virginia and Pennsylvania. The 372nd Military Police Company, some of whose men and women were involved in the horrors at Abu Ghraib, is stationed in Cumberland, Maryland.

http://wtop.com/index.php?sid=199821&nid=116
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/336mp.htm

[Scairp]

37. It was Georgia, wasnt' it?

Filmed in Arkansas, if I remember correctly.

[theHandpuppet]

38. Yep, could have been...

It's been many moons since I've read the book.

To some folks, though, it doesn't make much difference. If you're ignorant and violent, you must be from West Virginia.

[realisticphish]

66. i, an ohioan

i am from southeastern ohio, so i pretty much live in the same state as you. We get the same "redneck" crap from people that you do. Do not despair, you have brethren!

:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[theHandpuppet]

112. That's my home turf

I'm originally from SE Ohio so I know exactly what you mean. Even folks in other parts of Ohio consider SEasterners as hillbilly trash... speaking of which, one of my "fondest" childhood memories was being pelted with trash by the stuck-up snots in the toney Columbus 'burb of Upper Arlington. Our school band was playing in a parade there and the hometown spectators called us names like hillbillies and "river rats" and pelted us with garbage. I had to take it then, but I surely don't have to take it now.

Glad to meet another SE Ohioan! :)

[Name removed]

119. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

155. smartasses and dumbasses and rednecks

that's what mkes the world go round

[realisticphish]

187. i go to OSU now

and i hear people in my high level psych class talking about stupid rednecks (ironic, isn't it? psych students) i just look at them, wearing my anti bush t shirt, and say i'm from down there. they all shut up. It's a great feeling :)


And yeah, UA people can be assholes. In fact, IIRC, that's where the CEO of Diebold lives

:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[MountainLaurel]

62. Yes, Georgia

The area the novel focused on was the mountainous region northwest of Atlanta, where the start of the Appalachian Trail is located.

[Blue_Tires]

111. Rabun County, Ga

[Name removed]

117. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bunkerbuster1]

258. what are you, some kinda of Georgian Mets fan?

how dare you!

[420inTN]

202. Filmed in Tennessee

I forget the name of the river, but it was also used for the kayak racing during the 1996 Summer Olympics in Atlanta.

one of my favorite jokes from jeff "you might be a redneck" foxworthy from his cd "Redneck Games"...

"You know, they are doing the kayaking races on the same river where they filmed the movie 'Deliverence'. Now, if Ned Beatty couldn't make it down that river, what chance does a frenchman in a pair of bicycles shorts have?"

[ultraist]

122. Thank you for calling out the stereotype!

The fact is, there are more Bush voters in Northern states, than in Southern states. DO THE MATH! Take PA compared to NC for example, 2.7 million BUSH REDneck voters in PA vs. 1.9 million REDneck voters in NC.

In actual REAL NUMBERS there are more REDneck voters in the North.

Please don't buy into the Rovian designed model that supports the myth that Bush has a mandate.

We also need to be careful not to dismiss the fact that ignorance and racism exists in the North and is worse in some Northern states than in some Southern states. Times have changed. Compare stats on socio-economic indicators and number of hate crimes and the truth becomes apparent.

Being informed and relying on fact is more powerful than relying on stereotypes and over simplistic biased models.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

156. Stereo Typing on my Key Bored- joking about stoopid people-

what's the big deal?

[realisticphish]

188. because im not stupid

you're stereotyping me (indirectly), and i would like to think that the majority of Duers aren't prejudiced assholes


:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

211. I am prejudice against killers who justify their actions with joyful glee

and those who support them
They are all very stupid in fact.

[theHandpuppet]

222. Then aim your attacks at their proper target...

... and not expose your own class prejudices by making mocking attacks on poor and Appalachian people. As was pointed out to you, the majority of those charged in the Abu Ghraib horror were from Maryland, Pennsylvania and Virginia, two of which are BLUE states. No one here in any way justifies what happened at Abu Ghraib, but there are those here who do take objection to your own misguided mockery of those involved (including the bloodthirsty general actually addressed in the topic) as a bunch of West Virginia dumbasses -- and those who take objection to your own prejudices then being called smartasses, dumbasses and rednecks.

Hypocrisy, violence and hatred have no barriers to class, no claim on any border. Their practitioners may include not only the uneducated but those with Ivy League degrees; they may include the poor but just as often the wealthy; they are sustained not only by the sadistic sergeant but a sociopathic commander-in-chief. In the end, where lies the greatest danger, from the uneducated private or from a president of privilege and his wealthy, educated, amoral minions?

Next time you decide to launch a broadside against those who wrap themselves in the flag to justify having committed unspeakable horrors, perhaps you might consider improving the accuracy of your aim.

[TaleWgnDg]

33. Lt. Gen. James Mattis *animates* for microphones and cameras . . .

*War Stories* . . . *jokes* or was it merely ill-stated?

What a fool is this Lt. Gen. James Mattis in front of mikes and camera and . . . "About 200 people gathered for a discussion Tuesday on military tactics in the Iraq War. It was held at the San Diego Convention Center."





My immediate *take* on all of this is that Mattis is headed for immediate *retirement* -- so quickly that Mattis won't feel the door hit him on his *posterior.* However, the image of America decreases, yet, again, in the eyes of the world.

[Zech Marquis]

43. alot of fun to fight huh?

i've neevr been to combat--the closest was my 6 weeks at the Army ROTC camp Challenege at Fort Knox. when we had to train on the M-16, I was scared, it wasn't a hrill rush for me. The night time obstacle course when they shoot blanks over your heads wasn't fun. Putting together the "practice" hand grenades wasn't fun for me. Walking through the gas chamber wasn't fun. Seeing some veteran who had a part of his body blwon of in Vietnam wasn't fun.

War in real life is NOT like my Xox--I can turn off a game, and have a soda and pizza afterwards. In real life, war is hell, and this Marine geeneral seems to have forgotten that.

[hootinholler]

78. More telling is the statement in the lower left panel...

"historic forms of warfare that we have not mastered."

Then WTF are they teaching in Annapolis? How about the War College?

Ike is rolling in his grave about now.

-Hoot

[Ian David]

97. Retire or not, Bush is going to give him a Medal of Freedom n/t

[Laurab]

214. Doesn't * usually promote guys like this? n/t

[MADem]

217. NO, he's safe

He's touting the BushCO line--freedom lovin' peoples, protecting the wimmens, and so forth. If Jerry Boykin can get up in a pulpit, in uniform, and say that Islam has a BAD GOD, and his GOD is BETTER than THEIR GOD, and get PROMOTED, this ain't shit by comparison.

Take a good look at his epaulets. Anything over two stars is a prezteldunce call. And something tells me that Boyking scrubs the Flag and General lists personally.

[DRoseDARs]

4. Despite that it was taken out of context, he should still be reprimanded..

...He was making the point that people like the Taliban are bad people and he didn't shed a tear for a single one of them who died; that they got what was coming to them. Still, this isn't something you ought to say in a public forum. Tacky and abhorant. :thumbsdown:

[aquart]

14. I don't shed a tear for Taliban men either.

But for one of ours to ENJOY killing them? That's a big leap from not grieving.

[DRoseDARs]

18. Ergo: Tacky and abhorant

[donheld]

174. So i guess i shouldn't shed a tear.

When some of the Christian Taliban are shot? You know we have men in our own country who if they could, would try to get away with behavior like that. Some of them are at the heart of our government too.

[BulletproofLandshark]

5. What the hell is the matter with people?!

Anyone who gets a kick out of shooting people, or applauds others who like to shoot people, is soulless.

[Erika]

6. And it is Christian

to whoop up killing others from foreign countries? Did they giggle as the body fell into a heap? You see the fruition of the chickenhawks led by Bush.

[rodeodance]

7. this guy is in charge of "combat development"--the minds of the

marines.

[DulceDecorum]

8. Luke 19:22

'Out of your own mouth will I judge you, you wicked servant!

The General has spoken
and since we aim to practise what he preaches, ON HIM,
ANNIE GIT YOUR GUN.

Plug him right in the kisser.
Ah, I enjoyed gobsmacking that twit.

Now, who wants to be next?

[hootinholler]

81. What's the chapter and verse of 'Jesus Cried'? N/T

-Hoot

[Erika]

9. In the last days evil will be known as good

and good known as evil. I'm glad I'm not a Bushie.

[Sentath]

94. The best of them is like a briar, The most upright like a thorn hedge.

The day when you post your watchmen, Your punishment will come. Then their confusion will occur. Micah 7:4

Micah 7:2. The godly person has perished from the land, And there is no upright person among men. All of them lie in wait for bloodshed; Each of them hunts the other with a net.

Micah 6 and 7 are quite nice in their entirety http://www.countrykeepers.com/nasb/index.php?p=440

[Sterling]

198. Is that in the bible?

nt

[Elwood P Dowd]

10. Bush, Cheney, Wolfie, Rummy, and crowd like to watch the videos

They get a big kick out of people getting blown to bits. I would imagine Limbaugh, O'Rielly, Hannity, and most of the RW and Fox crowd enjoy it just as much.

[Erika]

11. As Christ sheds

more tears. They didn't "get" his message.

[UL_Approved]

They don't want his message

In order to understand these people, follow this link:

http://www.infowars.com/bg1.html

These people aren't Christians. They are the anti-Christ... :nuke:

[Megahurtz]

190. WOW!!!Creepy.

You are right.:wow: This is something that everyone should know about.
Thanks for the link and info.

[mordarlar]

12. I don't even know what to say.

[Bluebear]

13. "Ain't got no manhood left" Yeehaw.

This is now America, evidently.

[Supersedeas]

57. like nobody in these here neighborhood ever EVER beat womens

[tubbacheez]

76. Sooo... insisting upon 13th century standards for women is unmanly...

Yet insisting upon 13th century standards for homosexuals, church heretics, and the poor is somehow macho grande?

[Skittles]

15. sick

nt

[Pinboy]

16. It was never fun

when I served in Vietnam . . .

[BikeWriter]

25. Welcome home, Brother, thank you for your service.

:)

[Pinboy]

29. Thanks, Bro

You know how it is. Good to find some brothers here. Hang in there . . . as we all try to do . . .

[Pinboy]

30. And Thankyou for YOUR Service

[BikeWriter]

39. I think you'll like it here. We're well represented.

:)

[hootinholler]

87. Will a welcome from a coldwar SSBN bubblehead do?

:D
-Hoot

[Ezlivin]

98. How about a cold war SSN bubblehead?

We both served in the country's longest war!

It's a pity that all wars are not fought like we waged the Cold War.

[hootinholler]

116. Yeah, but I want a Theater ribbon and VFW membership..

You had it worse than I did on the SSN during those times.

ET3 SS - NavTech '78-'83

-Hoot

[Ezlivin]

158. You got yer dolphins, right?

What more does a submariner want? :)

IC2 SS - LPO USS Skate IC Div (forward puke) '77 - '80

I'm a life member of the DAV and PVA (paralyzed due to a hit-and-run in Army housing in Aiea, Hawaii). But the VFW is fun!

[hootinholler]

166. LOL, I still got marks from the tacking.

-Hoot

[kentuck]

50. Welcome.....

from a fellow Viet vet.

[Nordmadr]

108. Welcome from this Navy vet. N/T

[LilBitRad]

269. It was fun the day I left

But it hasn't left me. I still have the dreams.

Wolfhound. 68-69 Welcome home Bro.

[Phelan]

17. This is actually part of their psyc training

Buddy of mine in the Marines explained it to me,
I'll paraphrase
"You know when you read those interviews with high ranking marines in the papers that are just completely macho and frightening. Like 'yeah we mowed them all down, just sad there weren't more of them.' Its not that they actually believe in this stuff its there to build an intimidating reputation for the marines and give them a psychological edge in combat."

[atreides1]

191. It Only Works Until They Get Beaten

Yes this type of tactic has been done for centuries, build an intimidating reputation for an alledged "elite" type of unit, and give your side a psychological edge against the enemy.

The probelm with this, is that eventually the enemy will commit to beating the unit, and when they do, the edge is lost.

Happened in WWII on the Russian front, in the beginning the Waffen SS
frightened the Russian army, until the Russians sent Siberian troops against them and won, from that time on the edge that the Waffen SS
had was lost.

[daleo]

220. Elite units come in handy for military dictatorships, too.

Just the thing, when you want to put down dissent among your own citizens. I think that's why the founders of the U.S. constitution had a preference for militias over large standing armies.

[chicagojoe]

19. "aint got no" ?!?! How did this MORON become a general?!?!

[phasev]

69. I was going to ask the same thing n/t

[Sirveri]

20. Reminds me of when I went to MEPS.

Sat down next to a army and Marine guy. Marine guy asks the army guy, so why you joining the army?

His Reply.

To kill babies.

Thank god he was joking, he wanted to be a MP and then transfer into civilian service. But well... fuck dude.

[tubbacheez]

96. When I went to MEPS...

The guy in front of me wanted to be a Marine because "it's fuckin' bad-ass". He said quietly with no expression and wearing mirrored sunglasses, so I couldn't tell how serious he was.

The guy behind me wanted to go Army because of career options. I talked to him for a few minutes since he had some interesting ideas.

Then the guy in front of me suddenly fainted.

I half-caught him and lowered him to the floor. When I looked up, I saw a medical technician standing a few feet away put down a tray of needles and hurry over to help.

Apparently, Mr. Marine wasn't aware there'd be a blood test.

I don't know what happened to him. The techs took him to another room to recover.

[Swamp Rat]

23. James Mattis is a Nazi n/t

[oblivious]

24. You can talk tough when you have 10,000 times the power of your opponent

[Flammable Materials]

28. So when the right-wing NASCAR dad next door ...

... starts beating on his wife again for going out of the trailer without his permission while he's off at the bar, can I shoot him and join in on all this fun I seem to be missing out on?

[Sparky McGruff]

68. Shoot 'em all. It's fun!

You shouldn't just shoot him. Shoot his wife, his kids, his dog. If there are any neighbors, shoot them too. Jesus wants you to. It's fun.

[NJCher]

205. splurph!

OMG, Sparky.

ROFLOL.


Cher

[FuzzyDicePHL]

123. ROFL!

nt

[monobrau]

152. It's coming to that

The day those pigs cross that line, I'm armed and ready.

[eridani]

31. Fucking hell! The CIA financed the goddam fundies in the 80s

The Pakistan ISI created the Taliban with its full knowledge and approval. Like they gave a good goddam about the women of Afghanistan back then.

[Lisa]

176. excellent point -- the women (like the 9/11 victims) are an excuse!

Protecting the womenfolk -- fighting to avenge the dead of New York (whether the families want it or not) -- they know that without a rationale, they sound like a bunch of bullies.

It's one thing for a frightened teenager in a foxhole to be pumping himself up so he doesn't freeze up or have nightmares -- but an experienced senior officer?

I've met combat soldiers (WWII, Vietnam, UN peacekeeping tours) who do not feel the need to "talk tough" about killing and clearly admit that they'e struggled with fear, depression, and grief. This guy doesn't speak for the troops (some of them Marines too) I've talked to.

[leftchick]

32. He looks like an old withered NAZI....

:puke:

[bowens43]

34. what a fucking animal.

No wonder we are the most hated people on the planet.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mari333]

53. enjoy your short stay...

[stevedeshazer]

60. Wanna try to defend the General's comments?

Didn't think so.

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MissB]

90. Welcome to DU!

enjoy your stay

[HysteryDiagnosis]

199. Yeah... welcome to DU now go home. eom

[daleo]

101. The general might want to attack parts of Utah then.

Not to mention Saudi Arabia and plenty of other U.S. allies.

[VegasWolf]

120. Boy, it's true! Freepers really are inarticulate clowns masquerading

as humans. They take after their chimp faced leader.

[stevedeshazer]

132. Want you dead?

Perish the thought!

:hi:

[Freedomist]

266. Reminds me of the "Patton" movie

Remember the part where George C. Scott says "God, forgive me, I love this so." I think people are best at what they love and love what they are best at. If they are good at it we win and ourselves and our children get to live and live in freedom and that is something to love even with war being horrific, whether it is your advanced ability maintaining our freedom or the Generals, even with it being politically incorrect to say so. In that context I understand the Generals statement. That said, it was stupid to say something that undermines winning the hearts and minds of Iraqi fence sitters that could be swayed either way and who might think we are a bunch of homicidal maniacs based on the Generals comment. That comment could even endanger lives of our boys should such fence sitters take up arms against them.

[saigon68]

206. Adios

[Southsideirish]

147. Hey! Animals are much, much superior to this dude!

[HysteryDiagnosis]

35. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."

They shoot horses don't they??

Thank the dear lord that we don't have problems with that sort of thing here otherwise men would be laying heaped in the streets.... what a good Christian nation....</sarcasm>

http://www.lib.msu.edu/harris23/crimjust/victim.htm
CRIMINAL JUSTICE RESOURCES
Domestic Violence and Victim Resources

ABA Commission on Domestic Violence
Anti-Stalking Web Site
Crime Victim Statutory and Constitutional Provisions by State
Cyberstalking: Pathological Pursuit Online
Domestic Violence (Ingham County Prosecutor's Office)
Domestic Violence Resource Documents (University of Buffalo)
Domestic Violence Resources
Domestic Violence Resources (Paladin Group)
ESIA: End Stalking in America
Family Violence Prevention Fund
FindLaw Cyberstalking and E-Mail Threats
Husband Battering
Justice for All
International Victimology Website
MenWeb's Battered Men
Michigan Coalition Against Domestic and Sexual Violence
Michigan Crime Victims
Michigan Resource Center on Domestic and Sexual Violence
Michigan Victim Resources and Links
Mickey's Place in the Sun:
Domestic, Child, Elder, and Sexual Abuse Resources
National Center for State Courts Family Violence State Links
National Center for Victims of Crime
National Clearinghouse on Child Abuse and Neglect
National Coalition Against Domestic Violence
National Victims Constitutional Amendment Network
NCJRS Virtual Library: Victims of Crime
Not One More
NOW and Violence Against Women
Office for Victims of Crime
Pavnet: Partnerships Against Violence Network
Responding to Domestic Violence
Safety Zone
Stalking Victims' Sanctuary
State Computer Harassment or "Cyberstalking" Laws (NCSL)
Toolkit to End Violence Against Women
Victim Assistance Online
Victim Resources
Victims Rights and Resources in Michigan
Victims' Rights Compliance Efforts: Experiences in Three States
Violence Against Women : Electronic Journal (Online Journal)
Violence Against Women Office
Violence Against Women Online Resources
Women's Law Institute

[Disturbed]

41. It is damn hard to support the troops.

Yeah, I know a lot of them aren't like this but many do become like this after a few months in the zone. When the U.S. has Generals like this Boykin and others it is no surprise that atrocities and torture occur. Troops are encouraged to be like this. Having seen documentaries and actually talking to Viet Vets that collected ears and wore them around their necks I know what real combat can do to some. I was in the Army but got my orders changed to go to Nahm. Long story but I was also in the Stockade for 90 days and witnessed some shit there. People can be twisted in some brutal shapes given the situations.

This book is one of the best that I have read about the topic of war.

War is a Force That Gives Us Meaning-Chris Hedges

"Chris Hedges has been a war reporter for the past 15 years, most recently for The New York Times. His book, War is a Force That Gives Us Meaning, is one of the most striking analyses and critiques of what happens to people and societies as they go to war to be published in many years. Writing with a clarity and tone reminiscent of Albert Camus, Hedges unravels the myths and dysfunctional nationalism that grip nations heading to war; the intoxicating effect of these causes and rhetoric; and the terrible costs that soldiers, victims and societies pay -- when the realities of war -- not the rhetoric -- are experienced." Steven Rosenfeld.

[MSgt213]

40. How's that boot taste general? Memo: your not Bush so don't try and just

say anything that pops in your head.

[Massachusetts]

42. Time for General Gramps Mattis to hang up the sword!

[0007]

44. .....and we wonder why people in the world hate us!

If shooting ignorant people is such a sport then there are plenty to shoot in this country.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[peacebird]

73. So kizzdogg - when are you enlisting in the Army? you know - to

do your part to spread "democracy" and all?
bush needs some more soldiers, seems not enough kids are signing up to be cannon fodder....

[Name removed]

91. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ian David]

105. Apparently we DO need help defending our borders. Why not pitch-in?

Why not get in on some of this action?
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-minuteman2feb02.story


Taking Border Patrol Into Their Own Hands
Criticizing Bush's handling of migration, hundreds volunteer to stand watch in Arizona.

DENVER — Fed up with illegal immigration and eager to send a message to federal lawmakers, hundreds of volunteers from across the nation will spend the month of April patrolling the Arizona-Mexico border, helping to apprehend migrants coming into the U.S.

<snip>

Arizona is the nation's busiest gateway for illegal immigrants, with about 580,000 arrests last year — more than in California, Texas and New Mexico combined.
<snip>

Simcox — the founder of Civil Homeland Defense, which runs its own border patrols — said 416 people from 41 states had volunteered to take up positions between the Arizona towns of Naco and Douglas and around Coronado National Forest. A rally is planned for April 1, when organizers expect 2,000 people to park their cars along the border, forming a gantlet to repel illegals.
<snip>
"This is a violent area. We deal with drug smugglers every day. We don't want to say we don't want the public's help; we just don't want it in this format."
<snip>
Douglas Mayor Ray Borane has called the citizens' border effort racist. "You are going to get every misfit, everyone with a warrant out for their arrest, everyone who needs new scenery or climate out here," he said. "If they come into this community, it could lead to an international incident."
More:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-minuteman2feb02.story

[peacebird]

121. I don't spit on or ridicule the military

But I must say we are NOT doing "just fine" in terms of retention or enlistment in the Army and Marines, or in the National Guard and reserves.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0501050223jan05,1,5464715.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true

Our military is being spread too thin and rotated back into combat too frequently. Our military equipment is also being worn out at a much faster rate than usual due to extreme weather conditions and heavy usage.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/_/id/6862691?pageid=rs.Home&pageregion=single7&rnd=1107366052236&has-player=unknown

[DrWeird]

126. LOL.

Actually, the armed forces are in dire need of recruits. They're way, way behind their recruitment goals.

So that excuse really doesn't fly. Got any others?

[ultraist]

131. PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS! GO enlist!

They NEED people to enlist, they fell short on their enlistment quotas.

If you are sincere, you'd enlist.

People who "pretend" to support the troops by slapping yellow ribbon magnets on the back of their vehicles, don't REALLY support the troops. If they did, they would enlist. They should just shut the fuck up. The hypocrisy is quite apparent.

[Megahurtz]

197. I agree.

And I'm sick and tired of seeing those vehicles with yellow ribbon magnets AND W in '04 stickers on them too.:puke:

Those hypocrites should go enlist.

[Occulus]

137. It's actually not the soldiers on the ground I spit on

It's the men in the Pentagon- the ones actually making the horrible policies- that I reserve my ire for.

That said, when individual soldiers or groups of soldiers commit horrible acts, acts which are potentially crimes of war, they need to be held accountable and if there is evidence that it was not an 'isolated incident' and was, in fact, the result of an actual policy, those who instituted those policies need to be held accountable also.

Accountability? Personal responsibility? Just where are those traits in this administration, anyway?

[leesa]

47. Sounds like San Diego...lots of sick people there.

Bet he can't wait to get home to slap his wife around for not having dinner on the table.

[slackmaster]

163. We're not all Neanderthal here

There are boorish, stupid people in every town and city I've ever visited.

[leesa]

210. I live there. I know what people are like.

[slackmaster]

221. "people" is a rather broad term, don't you think?

There are people and there are people.

If all people in San Diego were bad people then...

Never mind.

[leesa]

242. Of course that's not what I said but play your little game.

[slackmaster]

256. Why don't you tell me what you were really trying to say?

[jwirr]

209. When my daughter and her family

were the Army spousal and family abuse was a major problem and the military was just beginning to address the problem. I doubt that it has changed much since then. When you are placed under extreme stress and taught to use violence then it is very easy to take it home.

[Boswells_Johnson]

48. While that was in very poor taste, it does reflect the reality that

efficient, professional soldiers are, in fact, killing machines. You have to be of a particular mindset to be able to kill anyone and everything considered the enemy, and the fact of it is, is that in order to do that, you must debase those to be killed.

I think the only way a person could keep their sanity would be to think of the enemy as something less than human. It's not pretty, and it's certainly not healthy, but I can't see any other way.

[donheld]

175. Then they complain when some

have a hard time supporting the troops. We want to support the troops, but when you run into military men like these it makes it hard.

[TacticalPeek]

49. "no manhood left" ????

Maybe not, but they do still have Bin Laden, Mullah Omar, al-Zawahiri . . .

And we have what - Kabul?

To be fair (not easy with such stupid remarks), Mattis appears to have done a decent job in the initial invasion, at least judging by this interview on the NewsHour. If memory serves, he had his bunch setting up voting booths in 2003 and packing to leave, until reversed by the Coalition Provisional Authority, who ordered him to destroy the voting booths, etc.

Still . . .

---------------------

September 26, 2003

MARGARET WARNER: Major General James Mattis, a veteran of the Gulf and Afghan wars, led the first marine division into Iraq when that war began March 20. His 24,000 troops charged north from Kuwait, clashing with Iraqi forces and Fedayeen irregulars around Basra, Nasiriyah, Diwaniyah, and Kut, before entering Baghdad April 9. That day, with the help of local Iraqis, Mattis's troops toppled the statue of Saddam Hussein.

When major combat ended, Mattis' marine division was assigned to occupy seven provinces in south- central Iraq, from south of Baghdad to the British- controlled sphere around Basra. General Mattis ran the area from a command post at the ancient city of Babylon. On September 3, his division transferred military authority over most of the area to Polish- led foreign troops. His marines completed their withdrawal this week, handing control of Najaf to Spanish-led forces. And with me now is General Mattis. General, welcome.

MAJ. GEN. JAMES MATTIS: Thank you.

MARGARET WARNER: We want to talk about your experience running the occupation for these months. The most remarkable statistics, in the months running the huge area of Iraq while the army was taking all kinds of casualties up around north of Baghdad, you lost not one marine to hostile attack. How do you explain that?

MAJ. GEN. JAMES MATTIS: Well, we didn't lose one killed. We had about 40 men wounded, but we sat out there to carry out the commander in chief's intent, and that was that we were going to liberate these people. We were going to try to avoid adversarial relationships and we were going to try to remain friendly one week longer, one day longer, one hour longer than perhaps some of the people who distrusted us coming in might have expected. And that's worked out pretty well.

MARGARET WARNER: How did you go about it? I read that you said one of your principles was do no harm. Describe that for us.

MAJ. GEN. JAMES MATTIS: We went into the attack with the motto that said no better friend, no worse enemy. So if you want to be our friend, we'll be the best friends you ever had. If you want to fight us, you're going to regret it. When we were up there in the stability operations, we added to it, first do no harm. In other words, if the enemy tried to provoke us into a fight and that fight would cause innocent people to die, then we would forgo the fight. We would try to find a way to get them another day.

But we were out to win the trust of the Iraqi people. We knew we were an American foreign force, largely Christian force, and we occupied, for example, two of the holy cities of the Shiia. What we did not want to do was find ourselves in a position of creating a conflict. So I sent about 15,000 of my 23,000 men home. I got rid of all my tanks and armored personnel carriers. Marines went on dismounted patrols. We had wave tactics, waving to the people, assuming we were there as friends. Eventually that expectation paid off.

MARGARET WARNER: I gather -- I read somewhere that you gave your troops instructions about things like eye contact.

MAJ. GEN. JAMES MATTIS: Yes, when soldiers walk into a city, and they're foreign soldiers, the first thing people are going to look at is all that gear and the weapons hanging off them. Generally the second place people look is into people's eyes, to see if they can trust them. So Marines removed their sunglasses and we tried to build the trust one act at a time. They learned quickly to trust us; they would even protest against us at times. On the suggestion of my Catholic chaplain, the marines would take chilled drinking water in bottles and walk out amongst the protestors and hand it out. It is just hard to throw a rock at somebody who has given you a cold drink of water and it's 120 degrees outside.

more
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/july-dec03/marine_9-26.html

[lebkuchen]

55. This is another "bring 'em on" comment,

Let's just hope the terrorists aren't listening.

[meisje]

56. and then he goes home and beats or kills his wife from the stress

[MountainLaurel]

65. Or because

Since he's been gone, she's realized that she can actually exist and succeed without having his sorry ass to lead her around by the nose while she does her biblical duty and remains submissive.

[peacetalksforall]

59. Big brag hate. It is anti-Bush you know, because just before he

made his wish to shoot the men who veiled the woman (the weakest example a soldier could use), the Taliban were visiting in Texas to talk about a partnership with some Texans and Texas companies and aministration type officials, which was right before or after Halliburton was making deals with them? Besides being brainwashed or being the brainwasher, isn't he supposed to be saying al Queda instead of the Taliban?

Well, we know who won the war in Vietnam in spite of tons of steel, aluminum, lead, titanium, patents, huge corporate money profits, and bad a** brass like him.

This is an American hero? And he will probably tell you that we are hated for our freedom.

[Sabriel]

61. Thank you, Vice Adm. Martin

"I was a little surprised," said Retired Vice Adm. Edward H. Martin. "I don't think any of us who have ever fought in wars liked to kill anybody."

At least not everyone's a sociopath.

Ask my mom if my dad, who fought in Korea, still wakes up screaming....

I gather he didn't find it "a hell of a lot of fun...."

[Magleetis]

63. What a jerk

Yep, war is just one big hunting trip with the boys. He obviously has no regard for human life. I wonder what his views are on the abortion issue.

[liberal N proud]

64. Where is the MORAL F@#KING MAJORITY on this one?

This son-of-a-b should be Court Marshalled and sent to prison.

[shaolinmonkey]

67. On the issue of the mistreatment of women,

for four of those years, Republicans said "that's not our problem" and "we can't police the world". But now it's fun! Yay!

Note the rise in use of terms like "them" and "those people" on the right. Now let's all listen to the preacher telling us that our wives should be subordinate, barefoot and pregnant. Hypocritcal mentality. My God's bigger than yours.

Paging Dr. Freud...Dr. Freud?

[Kadie]

70. There are men in this country that slap women around

I wonder what he would say if women started shooting men that abuse them and call it "fun".

[zbdent]

71. "you got guys who slap women around for 5 years because they didn't wear

a veil".

That's a good reason to shoot people?

Well, that would be a relief to a lot of battered women in America, right? Call the cops in to have some fun because her husband broke her arm because his eggs were runnier than he likes.

Way to kill off your red-state base . . .

[ultraist]

136. Correction: REDneck voters

We are dropping the Red State model because it's biased/over simplistic and supports Bush's fantasy of having a mandate. :D

Democrats LOVE the South and Swing states! LOTS of fertile ground there and unactualized votes. It's the NEW Dean plan. Get on board.

Thank you

[bobthedrummer]

72. The War pResident has the USMC taking reprisals for mercenaries too,

private military companies employed by this fascist administration. And the Rumsfeld/Myers DoD views soldiers, sailors, flyers and USMC as "fungible":bounce::nuke:

[tubbacheez]

74. As a long-time martial arts student, I know there IS an adrenaline rush...

... when you're fighting. And yes, it's somewhat more intense when you're winning (or think you're winning).


But any competent instructor (or sensei, sifu, or master) will tell you that this rush is NOT for your enjoyment. The truly experienced "warriors" know that such macho talk and ego are DISTRACTIONS and potentially FATAL in combat.

I feel bad for every soldier (living or deceased) who served under the this general. Their orders probably were not as efficient as they could've been. It doesn't matter that this general has been victorious. Anybody can win with enough advantages. This guy is a hack.

[mojavekid]

77. Disgusting. n/t

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cocoa]

85. Colonel Jessup?

is that you?

[Name removed]

138. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bridget Burke]

150. Since when did the Taliban threaten me?

And it's not as if the plight of Afghani women has improved since our invasion.

By the way, do you know what "White Feather" means?

[Name removed]

160. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bridget Burke]

162. A "White Feather" has also symbolized cowardice.

What have you, personally, done to help the women of Afghanistan?

[Name removed]

169. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MADem]

218. Yeah, I remember that smarmy old Brit movie

It was made back in the thirties, I think, very overdone, but got the point across clearly. I always thought of a white feather in that context.

[Sterling]

200. "Starship Troopers":

You do realize that whole story was a slam at the Nazi's right. SS troopers. Get it? Obviously not.

[notadmblnd]

103. We didn't go to Afghanistan to liberate women

we went there to capture OBL. In fact the current admin had no problems with the Taliban before 911. In fact they were negotiating for normalized relations. These negotiations failed when the US gave them the ultimatum that it could either rain gold or bombs.

I find it ironic that these fine "christian morals" only come into play when this admin fails to meet their original objectives.

[athenap]

140. If he's shooting men for veiling women...

Why isn't he in Saudi Arabia?

[Sterling]

201. Yes if that Gen. was in Afghanistan he sucks.

Where's Osama bitch!!!!! That "war" is/was a complete farce. If tjis guy is the A team we are in a world of hurt.

[Mich Otter]

179. Questions about this...

Is it possible that Al Jazeera will spread the message that some Americans enjoy killing people in the Middle East? Are we doing enough to win the hearts and minds of people everywhere? How many Europeans will want to sign up to stand beside us in Iraq or anywhere else?

[smoogatz]

82. "I love the smell of napalm in the morning..."

"...It smells like--victory."

[kypper]

83. My thoughts on a Volunteer Military

I know I'll get flamed for this, but I have to say it.
Who in their right mind would volunteer to go into the military to do violence to others at the political whim of month? I mean, it's one thing if it's the only way to get a college education and you think there's no way in hell you'll have to actually go to these places... but the people who WANT to fight because they think it's FUN? There's something not right in their heads.

People speak out against the draft, but at least there you have NORMAL people, the vast majority of which do NOT want to be there, and would NOT enjoy the killing of another. I think that a drafted military would be far more moral than some of the freaks committing all the atrocities in this one.

[ShaneGR]

84. I believe wife beaters should be hung by the nuts in public.....

But thats just me.

[98geoduck]

86. I wonder how many wife beaters were in the audience, and still applauding.

[lutefisk]

93. Rush calls for prison for drug users...

Diamond Bill Bennett and Liar-Pervert O'Reilly are appalled by the moral degeneration of society (all caused by Clinton, of course). Being a Five Star Hypocrite is a badge the Right Wingers wear proudly.

[kypper]

89. But who are these soldiers

Who are they to claim that they're wife-beaters? Have they been tried and convicted?
Why is it that only Westerners are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty.

I don't doubt that the majority of men there do heinous things to their women... but how in the hell would this jackass know about the individual he just shot?

[daleo]

130. Actually, I doubt that most men there mistreat women

Most are probably nice enough to their mothers, sisters, daughters, wives, etc., just like most men here. Some elements of their cultural norms may be unacceptable to us (e.g. veils), but that doesn't imply that they all go around beating women.

[kypper]

164. Perhaps...

Although the culture there still involves subjugation of women. It wasn't so long ago that Western society was the same way. Regardless, this jackass' actions aren't justified.

[MountainLaurel]

183. Actually

The Armed Forces have an incredibly high rate of domestic violence and an utterly disgraceful record of telling women to suck it up, or that it's not their problem.

[FuzzyDicePHL]

134. Just wife beaters?

It may be a good start, but how about just anybody that doesn't respect life -- fundies who would seem to rather a woman die of a complication during pregnancy rather than allow her to terminate it, the military who try and compensate for lack of self-respect by killing innocent, unarmed humans, and the sick fucks who spray their dogs down with WD40 and set them on fire... just to name a few.

Also kindly remember that it's not just straight men who abuse others. I know of a lesbian couple who have engaged in brutal domestic violence against each other (who I suppose would need to be hung up by the labia?), as well as a few gay male couples who've beaten (or been beaten) bloody.

[DrWeird]

135. I feel the same way about murderers.

nt

[donheld]

177. Hopefully you mean both

Christian, Muslim, Agnostic or any other type of wife beater. Sadly wife beaters come in ALL nationalities and religions.

[chrisbur]

92. My step-uncle is a Major...

in the army. He was in Baghdad 2003-2004. He would send e-mails to my step-father. Apparently after getting mortared all the time they were happy to have someone to shoot at when they actually made contact with "insurgents". He said they "hoped they sent more".

I don't get along with him really well. He's always been a bully. It's funny though, when the arguing started at Thanksgiving he just got up and left the room. He had nothing to say. In fact, the biggest proponents of the war were of course his wife and one sister. The two people in the family who are by far the most shallow, self-absorbed, self-gratifying, child spoiling, magnetic ribbon sticking, IGNORANT members of the family.
My mother and his other sister are very strongly anti-war so they sat and insulted each other as all the males left the table. It pretty much ruined Thanksgiving.

[janetle]

129. magnetic ribbon stickers

This entire topic of this thread just makes me cringe and makes me sad and angry and ashamed--but when I saw your use of this as a description, I laughed. And you know, all of those magnetic ribbons are made in China.

[ultraist]

141. LMAO! That sounds a bit like my Thanksgiving!

My sister in law (no blood relation) is a born again zealot anti-choice activist. LOL! She is really fucking loopy so the rest of the family doesn't take her too seriously. AMAZING what comes out of her mouth sometimes.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ultraist]

146. Have you enlisted yet? They REALLY need people to enlist.

What are you waiting for? If you support the military, you'd sign up today.

WTF do you mean by your statement here, Mat?
"But in so far as I am concerned, its whoever doesn't have the balls to speak up to women "got no manhood left anyway".

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MissB]

100. Please head down to your local recruiting station

The Army needs you.

[saigon68]

207. Adios

Go join up and kill the "Rag-Heads"

[bloom]

106. The same people who think it sounds like "fun" to shoot "some" people...

are probably the same people who send Ward Churchill death threats.

They just don't get it.

[Toucano]

107. Anyone remember "the chick got in the way"?

by John Pilger

We now glimpse the forbidden truths of the invasion of Iraq. A man cuddles the body of his infant daughter; her blood drenches them. A woman in black pursues a tank, her arms outstretched; all seven in her family are dead. An American Marine murders a woman because she happens to be standing next to a man in a uniform. "I'm sorry", he says, "but the chick got in the way".

http://www.cpa.org.au/garchve03/1134pilger.html

Bush's "culture of life".

[Zerex71]

109. I hope he realizes this goes both ways.

But of course he doesn't, he's an ignorant jarhead.

[Guns Aximbo]

110. What a bunch of losers

I'm getting sick of theis place...

[Sterling]

203. Which place would that be?

nt

[Guns Aximbo]

227. this country

[Sterling]

240. Got ya.

thx.

[caligirl]

113. Gees!! Another egotistitical General out on a mission at a dog and

pony show. He mastered that aspect of the Marine Corps.

[Roland99]

114. 1,436 Families are now more than pissed off about this fuckstick

[Moderator]

115. just a reminder per DU rules

When posting articles, always use the published title of the article as the title of the discussion thread. Additional information may be included in a thread title (in parentheses) if it helps to make the title more clear.

[bobweaver]

194. Sorry I was angry and I forgot.

[Democrats_win]

124. Red State hate turning to talk of murder. Surprised?

Look at "Blue Colar TV." When one of the "comedians" does a cute skit against Political Correctness, and ends with an inflamtory comment, he gets a standing ovation. Not because it was funny, but because its a slap in the face to the people they hate: people who love others so much that they don't even want the words to hurt.

[ultraist]

149. REDneck voters, not RED State

I believe that most of the soldiers charged with torture were from a Blue state (PA).

There are lots of REDneck Bush voters in Blue states. Furthermore, using this pro Bush model is very destructive to our cause. No state is pure Red, many of the states that went to Bush will swing to Democrats next election, IF we work it and stop ostracizing entire states.

Thank you

[theHandpuppet]

181. Most were from Maryland and Pennsylvania

Both blue states. In fact, the military police unit involved is from Cumberland, Maryland.

Thanks for pointing that out to some who may unintentionally be continuing this misperception about the torturers of Abu Ghraib.

[tabasco]

125. This man is a disgrace to the officer corps.

I knew a Marine Colonel who went on to become the Deputy Cmdt. of the Marine Corps. He was a fine man and would hold this officer and his comments in utter contempt.

[Rex]

127. war crime

nt

[bobweaver]

128. It fits right in with the Abu Grhaib mentality

[sui generis]

133. so if I understand this, we should institute the death penalty

for wife beaters. Okay, I'm okay with that. Just want to be sure we're doing this here in the states before we spread it to other countries we're trying to "liberate".

too bad the good general doesn't get that the other side thinks it's fun to shoot Americans too. . .

[Maestro]

139. What an assinine comment

Even if you are a soldier defending what you think is right, it is never "fun" to take another's life even if justified. And the freepers infiltrating here trying to justify this guy show an incredible lack of values, moral character, and just plain logical thought.

[VegasWolf]

142. Yeah, and that little 8 year old boy is picking his nose, BLOW him

away!!!

[spunky]

143. That's just disgusting. Soldiers should be punished for

remarks like that. War is not a game. It is not sport. You kill in war because you have to, not because you want to. Its like those shits who go around saying "Good Hunting" to soldiers.

I REALLY REALLY hope karma repays this guy fully. He deserves what he gets. IMO.

[tk2kewl]

144. If you apply this fuckwad's logic to the world . . .

there are a whole lot of folks that deserve killin'. I would suppose that Lt. Gen. James Mattis might appear near the top of some peoples lists.

[Nailzberg]

145. Perhaps the Gen. will lead the next unarmored convoy in the Sunni Triangle

Doesn't sound like he's opposed to a combat tour.

Another tough talker who doesn't have to get in harm's way himself. This guy should be on the short list for a position in the White House soon.

[MADem]

219. Are you kidding? The closest he'll get

...is a quick in and out, well behind the revetments, in an air-conditioned bunker, stocked with the best goodies, well away from any danger. Three stars, baby, he's as safe as a baby in mama's arms!

[Gregorian]

148. LOVE IS UNAMERICAN.

Bowie was right.

[lupita]

151. Just another compassionate conservative... n/t

[enki23]

153. and we've got people in these areas who put leashes on detainees

who haven't been charged with any crimes, and many of whom are actually completely innocent. they are beaten, tortured, in a number of cases ending in their death.

so, would it be fun to shoot some of those people too?

how can you tell which muslims have been beating up women? same way you can tell which soldiers have been torturing prisoners, i suppose. just assume the ones which are shot are the ones who have done it.

[KissMeKate]

154. breathtaking.

every time I think my outrage standard has been breached and it cant get any worse, I hear stuff like this.

The gop is taking this country down the hole.

[ClayZ]

157. Republican family values....

Mr. bu$h and his team have killed more CHILDREN in Iraq than total number of people who died in the World Trade Center.

[adarling]

159. just sick

I hope someone calls this a**hole out. When there are so many people dying, on both sides, this kind of crap is not at all appropriate. Shame on anyone that cheers for that crap.

[slackmaster]

165. Poor dumb bastard

One stupid remark that will follow him for life.

[Xenotime]

167. Easy for you to say...

Killing is wrong, General. It's easy to talk about other people's manhood when you are safe in San Diego. <sigh>

[queeg]

168. I agree with him

Until democrats grow some balls, and stop being pansy asses, we are going to keep getting out asses kicked in elections. I agree with the General that there is a limit to the tollerance that should be shown for just plain bad manners. It would be nice to live somewhere where even the doves agree that sometimes you need to teach the other guy respect at the end of a gun.

[daleo]

189. It was all about weapons of mass destruction

Now its about teaching foreigners some manners. That's a lot of lives and a lot of money over an etiquette lesson.

On edit - Or as Cartman would say "Respect my authoritie".

[d_b]

170. What a sick f...

[demo dutch]

172. Has nothing to do with * The Military mentality has always been that way!

[SmokingJacket]

260. But generals didn't used to be so cavalier about it.

That's the point. If shooting people weren't "fun" to some people, why would there be so many video games about it?

But now we're now okay with it! It's just like Bush thinking it was fine to mock a woman on death row pleading for her life. Of course people felt that way before, but we used to have a sense of shame about our baser instincts. No more. And that's what's freaking scary.

I blame Bush and his sociopathic personality.

[indepat]

173. Was it Stonewall Jackson who said "kill'um, kill'um all?"

[Oreo]

178. More on Mattis

From what I gather everywhere he's out and out Marine gung-ho material and is a serious big cheese in the entire "war on terra"

If so, he was president of the republic, or, more accurately, its benevolent dictator. Mattis is a legend inside the Marine Corps, having led the Marines into both Afghanistan and Iraq. He was so hell-bent on reaching Baghdad that he fired one of his brigade commanders for not going fast enough. It was his men who toppled the statue of Saddam Hussein in central Baghdad on April 9, signaling the end of the war.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/078vlxzr.asp

"I don't have to apologize for the conduct of my men."
http://iraqnow.blogspot.com/2004/05/all-right-you-bastards-im-calling-you.html

"It's very secure, very few incidents of violence anywhere in town, we have gone from fighting our way into the country to where it's very unusual to have any shooting in a 24-hour period, that's a tremendous truth-teller," Mattis said. "We continue to get waves and smiles which shows that something we're doing is right," he said.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2986.htm

[bajamary]

184. Work for Peace and Justice

God help us all.



www.4-my-country.com

[ClayZ]

185. "Kill without Mercy" is what they taught in VietNam era USArmy bootcamp

I remember my ex-husband being sick about having to scream "WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THE BAYONET....TO KILL WITHOUT MERCY, TO KILL WITHOUT MERCY" over and over while an 18 year old army draftee in bootcamp 1969. I bet that is when this guy started.....



Clayz

"Whenever I despair, I remember that the way of truth and love has always won. There may be tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they may seem invincible, but in the end, they always fail. Think of it: always." - Gandhi

[Name removed]

192. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[saigon68]

224. Adios

[spanone]

193. Why aren't we winning their Hearts & Minds? God help us.

[Solly Mack]

195. that fool is suffering from a deep disconnect...among other things

what a disgusting thing to say.

[V Lee]

196. People like this are heartless and morally bankrupt.

No other way around it.

Does he (and the audience) also applaud the fact that Iraqi insurgents feel the same way about shooting our troops?

What they don't seem to be able to grasp (because they have no empathy for others and aren't capable of seeing beyond their own little world) is that the concept of having fun shooting people is either worth applauding, or it's not, regardless of which direction the bullets are traveling.

[90-percent]

204. this General

What a crappy General.

He made no mention of the sheer delight of the TORTURE Service guys can also enjoy!

He should be demoted by forgetting to mention such an important selling point for "serving your country"!

Iraqi naked pyramid has got TWISTER beat by a mile for sure!

-85%

[jwirr]

208. This ignorance is so hard to stomach.

Two nights ago I watched a documentary on Japanese Prisoner of War Camps in WWII. It was full of this kind of soldier but they were the "bad" Japanese. I watched torture, forced marches, forced labor and just plain abuse of prisoners and local citizens alike. I am proud of the soldiers who fought for America in WWII as my family was among them. Less that 4 years ago I would have sat and cried for the waste of human life that we were forced to endure, for the cruelty the men and women faced and for the need for war at all. BUT in the middle of this documentary I began to see the parallel between what the Japanese did to our people then and what we are doing to anyone who disagrees with us or has oil we can steal now. I felt sick to my stomach. I am ashamed. I do not think that the History Channel meant that to be so obvious but I thank them. We are losing the very democracy that those WWII heroes were tortured to preserve and build and this documentary even made me wonder if their sacrifice was worth it when we have become the mirror image of the enemy we were fighting then?

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

212. Thank you for speaking the truth

So many here on this thread don't seem to see it.

[theHandpuppet]

223. And what you have failed to see...

... is that hatred, ignorance and bigotry is not a class issue which can be measured by the size of one's bank account, for humble circumstances of birth or by the manner in which one speaks. Look around you and see who is truly leading these crusades of violence, hatred and persecution -- it's not the have-nots but the "have-mores".

To attribute the horror of what is happening solely to "ignorance" is misleading, for ignorance itself implies a lack of awareness. Those who are leading this country into a hell of killing and injustice are quite aware of what they're doing and their crimes are borne from malicious intent and deliberate, all-consuming greed.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

230. what?

Ignorance "implies a lack of self awareness" -where'd you get that?

******NO********

Ignorance= IGNORE+ance
the root is ignore.
The people leading this country are ignorant of the consequences as they choose to ignore the sufering they inflict and focus on the bank they gain.

"not a class issue" -sure it is-
The have want the have nots to have less.

when you enjoy killing people it reflects knuckle dragging consiousness-->When people applaude this it reflects support for knuckle dragging.
And the methods of sexual abuse and torture imposed on prisioners by the Bush Administration confirms their intent.

Get the less fortunate to do what you want to do but haven't got the balls to do.
And make it an order. yes sir.

[Name removed]

233. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

235. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

241. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

247. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

265. Deleted message

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[Carl Brennan]

213. This is why the US NEEEEDS its ass kicked and kicked good

in both of these wars.

[SpaceBuddy008]

215. Zeitgeist2005 when crass,path-illogical lies accepted by wider public....

BeWare!

But then, it's a very punitive culture. Look at the death penalty. When George Ryan stopped killing innocent men on death row in Illinois, the press and public opinion crucified him. I still find this response the most disturbing and revealing of all the many disturbing responses of Mr. and Mrs. America.

The society will waste endless ink on the Peterson trial...demonizing this dumb fuck...but never question Abu Ghraib seriously.

John,

The fires of human passion have been submerged by our punitive and petty age. The spurious Eros of the corporatist advertising/entertainment/consumer paradigm has risen as manifest Thanatos. I've heard stories of fires that burned unseen in sealed-off, abandon mines -- whereby years later, miles from the original location of the blaze, dead trees will burst into flames...the fire having traveled the length of the mine and up the kindling of the tree's root system to explode in the open air. We witness these sorts of sudden conflagrations, constantly: road rage, workplace and school shooting sprees, foaming at the mouth right-wing pundits, George Bush's oscillations between dead-eyed blankness and prickly anger (I don't know which state is more terrifying), and seemly -- an entire culture that willing accepts the outright murder of civilians, for no discernable reason. As if there is a good one.

If the fires of passion are left to burn, unattended, in chthonic denial -- how can an individual or a culture learn to temper those raging fires of passions into warmth and compassion? Hence: the coldness of the corporate culture and the lifelessness of suburban existence, resulting into chronic dissatisfaction (the feeling something is missing) and the dark Eros of perpetual war.

The fire next time, indeed.

America Has Left The Building...
A Conversation About Culture


Phil Rockstroh & John Steppling



Part II



http://www.swans.com/library/art11/prjs02.html

Part I

http://www.swans.com/library/art11/prjs01.html

John,

Place, landscape, situation, and the mythos of its people are inextricably bound. When I was child, growing up in the south, on the occasion of fishing expeditions and such, I would have contact with rural black farmers who still lived by the agrarian rhythms of the nineteenth century. We would sit on wooden porches, snapping string beans, and I would listen as they quoted scripture. Like their life-sustaining crops, the figure of Christ was born of humble beginnings (a mere seed), and grew beneath the hot sun -- but, at the height of maturity, was cut down, sacrificed to sustain their lives, then, like the figure of Christ -- resurrected -- as next year's seed crop. This held mythic resonance; the metaphors resounded with the verities of place and circumstance. Jesus was as real to them as the green beans beneath their fingertips.

[zmdem]

216. Heaven forbid that our soldiers should kill our enemas

Isn't that what they are for ?

[theHandpuppet]

225. I don't know about you...

... but I absolutely hate enemas.

[Sterling]

228. Enema's can be good for people.

I think this general needs one really really bad. Fuck it, thge whole country could use one at this point.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

237. seriously, didn't they give "enemas" as torure in Gitmo (exposed recently)

I think it was a couple of weeks ago- a big story about giving enemas to prisoner, oh excuse me, "dee tain ees".

Sick idea for torture- Who thought that one up...I mean don't you have to be a real perve (with a capitol pee) to want to shove something up the ass of the "enemy"?

Who thinks up these torures?
Rumsfoiled? I heard he likes young boys.

[ClayZ]

245. A round of enemas for the neo-cons.

Maybe it would make the effects of the Cool-Aid wear off!

heh heh

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

234. A memorable post

Although not for the reasons you intended.

[Sterling]

238. What else can you expect from a "Zell Miller Democrat"

:eyes:

[zmdem]

244. Stay tuned and find out

This is a site for democrats, is it not ?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

252. So this really IS what the ZM stands for?

Do you agree with the guy's choice in the presidential campaign?

[zmdem]

243. I don't use spell check, give me a break (n/t)

[Bridget Burke]

250. Spell check would not have caught that error.

It helps not to be a moran!

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

251. I give breaks to people who think bloodlust is a bad thing. (nt)

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

229. What's the big deal? Those dirty arabs aren't human, anyway...

Welcome to the beginning of the Fourth Reich. Just subsitute Arab for Jew and replay the late 1930s history of Nazi Germany.

AT SOME POINT WE WILL NEED TO PUSH FOR A COUP; OTHERWISE, THOSE WHO A HORRIFIED BUT SILENT ARE COMPLICIT IN GENOCIDE.

The America that made me proud is DEAD.

JB

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

236. watch out! some here don't understand sarcasm!!

You're totally right. I was just saying this to a friend last night while watching the History Channel show about Nazi extermination of the Jews.

These Fourth Reich Chimpy bastards have every intention of making the "A-rab" ,or more accurately the "Muslim", the culprit and the threat that must be cleansed from our society.

The Third Reich portrayed the Jews as the cause of all their troubles.
And solving the problem meant eliminating the "source" of the problem by any means necessary (ends justified the means).

I have no doubt there will be concentration camps and executions
---oh, wait a minute,...they already do have them-Gitmo, and the ones in Iraq!
They don't only kill and torture them, they get jollies off on them too-just like their heroes did back in Germany in the 30's& 40's)
What a wonderful wonderful time we live in in History!

[lebkuchen]

231. "We're going to Iraq to strike at the 'terrorists.'"

Same sentiment, different decade:

[Ganja Ninja]

248. They'll probably make this guy the head of the Joint Chiefs.

That's how it works in Bush world. The more you screw up the higher you go. If you can outrage the sensibilities of liberals and thinking people everywhere than your on your way to the top.

[trapper914]

249. So what he's saying is...

..."I enjoy shooting people if their religious beliefs aren't in lockstep with mine."

[rainbow4321]

253. Marine general counseled over comments

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/MARINES_COMMENTS?SITE=TXSAE&SECTION=US&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

WASHINGTON (AP) -- A Marine Corps general with battle awards is being counseled to watch his words more carefully after publicly observing that "it's fun to shoot some people."

Lt. Gen. James Mattis, a career infantry officer now in charge of developing ways to better train and equip Marines, also made fun of the manhood of Afghans during comments Tuesday while speaking at a forum in San Diego.

On Thursday, Gen. Mike Hagee, the commandant of the U.S. Marine Corps, issued a statement of regret about Mattis' remarks, saying they reflected "the unfortunate and harsh realities of war."

Gen. Hagee's statement said, "Lt. Gen. Mattis often speaks with a great deal of candor. I have counseled him concerning his remarks and he agrees he should have chosen his words more carefully." "While I understand that some people may take issue with the comments made by him, I also know he intended to reflect the unfortunate and harsh realities of war," Hagee's statement added.

[HoosierClarkie]

255. Hagee is saying

"the unfortunate and harsh realities of war"=fun! Hmmm....that's nice of him to clarify the Generals feelings. /sarcasm

[TexGal NotBushGal]

254. What a complete idiot.

I bet nothing happens to him either. Typical Marines.

[lebkuchen]

257. This story made today's Stars and Stripes

Hagee gave no indication that Mattis would suffer any punishment.

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=26974

And that's the way it is in the Bush administration. No one gets punished, no matter how heinous the act, no matter how incriminating the comments implicating one's self in heinous acts.

[reichstag911]

259. Same as Boykin

This country loves to arm morons, and those morons love uniforms. Perfect match, really. When nobody suffers adverse consequences for the unprecedented failures of 9/11, you think this idiot in the White House is going to bitch-slap an overenthusiastic, murderous bigot? Come on!

Gawd bless Amurrika, land that I loathe...

[lebkuchen]

262. You

have a point.

[rjbny62]

261. CNN - general "should have chosen words more carefully"

When it gets to the point that killing is "fun" you know how sick things have become. It doesn't really matter what words were chosen.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/03/general.shoot/index.html

>>>>>>>

General: It's 'fun to shoot some people'
Commandant gives counsel, acknowledges wrong word choice

Friday, February 4, 2005 Posted: 11:02 AM EST (1602 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A three-star Marine general who said it was "fun to shoot some people" should have chosen his words more carefully, the Marine Corps commandant said Thursday.

Lt. Gen. James Mattis, who commanded Marine expeditions in Afghanistan and Iraq, made the comments Tuesday during a panel discussion in San Diego, California.

"Actually it's quite fun to fight them, you know. It's a hell of a hoot," Mattis said, prompting laughter from some military members in the audience. "It's fun to shoot some people. I'll be right up there with you. I like brawling.

>>>>

[Tom Rinaldo]

267. He should have chose careers more carefully

He certainly shouldn't be representing our military. I can understand that in the heat of combat there can be a sense of relief, excitement even, if you get them instead of them getting you. With your life on the line you literally can't afford "losing" in combat so even "joy" at "winning" is understandable. "Fun" in the context of killing however is an obscenity.

[ClayZ]

263. He was in my graduating class from High School

Jim Mattis YIKES!

http://members.tripod.com/richlandbombers.1968/68columbian/ss/119.html


I grew up in Richland Washington. That is the closest town to Hanford where they helped make the A-bomb. The school's motto is still "Richland BOMBERS". {{{{ARGH}}}} http://richlandbombers.1968.tripod.com/ check out the logo!

I escaped! I became a Flute Maker.. HE likes to kill people.. ARGH!

I only vaguely remember him.
http://www.tri-cityherald.com/news/2001/1229/story2.html

Hanging my head in shame!

:kick:

[apple_ridge]

268. That HS logo is truly sick.

[Coltrane]

264. Marine General Told To Watch Mouth After Shooting Comments/Video

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/02/04.html#a1496 has the video