At least 3 US soldiers killed in Iraq ambush - BBC news

[Kipper58]

No link as yet - Live news show. Ambush of convoy in western Iraq with RPG's. BBC reporter is in the area, and details are beginning to come in.

UPDATE - first report on BBC website - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3119778.stm

[phillybri]

1. Yahoo link....

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030918/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_ambush&cid=540&ncid=716

Possibly as many as 8 dead....

[wryter2000]

27. OMG

The poor families. When is this madness going to stop?

If there is a hell, Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden, and George W. Bush are going to be cell-mates.

:cry:

[Guaranteed]

79. Funny how the politicians start these things...

...but it's the civilians who end up dying for it.

[Braden]

37. when do Minor Combat Operations End?

my condolences to the families of these brave soldiers.

The Bush White House has all but admitted this to be a purely speculative folly. At what point can the families try Bush for a wrongful death lawsuit?

[TacticalPeek]

70. "When do Minor Combat Operations End?"

I see a T-shirt.

[Maeve]

2. Damn! I was thinking it had been awfully quiet

Of course, getting news is even more awful...;(

[Vikingking66]

3. wow, just when Cheney says things in Iraq are quieting down

Poor guys; I can't imagine what goes through their
heads when they're told they have to suit up for
a convoy mission.

[FauxNewsBlues]

4. They are saying 8 dead now

US troops burned alive in their transport vehicle after coming under grenade attack, and their transporter catching on fire.

[markses]

6. Who is saying that?

Al-Arabiyah? Do you have another source?

[northernsoul]

17. I hope this is not true

I can't imagine a worse way to go.
My research partner here at school has a boyfriend over there right now. He joined an engineering guard unit to help pay for school and because he wanted to be a civil engineer. He thought he'd help rebuild bridges for people after a tornado had gone through or something like that. He was supposed to come home next month, but now it's not going to be until next May. I can't imagine what kind of hell the families of our troops are being put through right now.

[saigon68]

53. Ugly Business

I wonder when the U.S. authorities will fess up?

[UpInArms]

5. and then the US tank fired on the reporter??

The AP reporter was fired on by one of the tanks with three rounds from its 50-caliber machine gun.

was this intentional?

[DuctapeFatwa]

7. I think they have killed 17 reporters so far

someone else may have a more accurate total, and/or a link.

[underpants]

9. No they are scared and firing at anything that moves

The report (as you know) paints a picture of a frantic scene. Tanks, hovering helicopters, and firing all around as they don't know where the original fire came from. I'm not trying to make excuses but put yourself in their situation-tired, burnedout, and invisible enemy.

This SUCKS!!!!!!! What can be said to their families that could possibly explain this? No Link to Saddam (announced in time for Isabel to wash the story away) No WMD and LIES to start the whole thing.

Just sad.

[IndianaGreen]

12. American troops are trigger happy in Iraq

A common complaint, heard several times before, is that every time US troops arrive at the scene of an attack they form a circle around it and open fire in every direction. A fine example of what command and control is not supposed to be!

I wonder how many wounded we have. CNN just showed a clip of an Humvee and a truck in flames. Whoever was in those vehicles is either dead or badly wounded.

[freeforall]

18. They're trigger-happy everywhere...

Look at Afghanistan, and the Canadians they killed. I've said this before, but I don't think the US troops are trained properely - will shoot at anything that moves.

[Nevernose]

21. A very small defense of our military

Those pilots that bombed the Canadians in Afghanistan were high on prescription amphetamines ... still the fault of USAF policies, but not quite the same thing as "trigger-happy."

This current article mentioned that the 14-year old they killed last week had been using his weapon in a "celebratory firing" ... I don't call it trigger happy to shoot someone when you have a very real, very probable belief that they are shooting at you.

When, precisely, did this whole thing turn into one gigantic clusterfuck?

[Skittles]

52. the clusterfuck started in Dec 2000

when this illiterate, illegitimate piece of SHIT was installed into the White House.

[IndianaGreen]

75. US troops have been firing on reporters since the war began

Remember when US tanks opened fire on the Palestine Hotel in Baghdad, killing an Al-Jazeera reporter?

More from The Guardian:

An Associated Press reporter at the scene said two US tanks and helicopters were guarding a smouldering transport truck, which had apparently been destroyed by rebels.

The reporter was unable to get close enough to verify the casualty reports and was fired on by one of the tanks with three rounds from its 50-calibre machine gun. It appeared the troops, who were taking fire from unknown positions, were trying to protect themselves until reinforcements arrived.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1044840,00.html

[ps1074]

8. CNN International is showing

a burning truck and a burning humvee (sp). Reporting 'there are casualties' but the exact number still not known.

[underpants]

10. W live on Fox NOW!!!

Said the attacks ~"are further proof of the indescriminate kiiling of innocent people and spreading of fear"

[saigon68]

11. FAUX= SPIN PROPAGANDA---

They are worthless. They might as well have their headquarters in the basement of the White House

[Spentastic]

16. He's right you know

Shooting 14 year olds at weddings is exactly what he means.

Oh sorry he meant when people shoot at American trrops.

[Bucky__Badger]

43. so basically it took Bunnypants....

less than an hour to use the deaths of our soldiers for his own political gain- to prop up his policies, etc. Or try to.

F@*&ING CHICKENHAWK

[chiburb]

13. Picture of the truck from BBC:

[markses]

14. Here is CBS's edit of the AP story

AP:

Al-Arabiya television reported eight Americans were killed and one wounded. There was no confirmation of any casualties, and initial casualty reports have proven incorrect in the past.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030918/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_ambush_5

CBS:

"There were unconfirmed reports of American casualties, but such reports have often been unfounded."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/24/iraq/main541815.shtml

Nice, eh?

[LostInAmerica]

15. Now they're saying there was a second attack

"a few miles distant."

Link

[underpants]

19. FOX: TWO soldiers wounded (no confirmation of other reports)

Now "A banner day for the American auto industry"

Smile all is well.

[underpants]

20. CNN now reported THREE wounded

Now back to Isabel

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

45. I think Dubya has seen Weekend at Bernie's one time too often...

They aren't really dead until he's caught with the corpse.

Not to make light of the tragic deaths occuring in Iraq, but the constant glossing over of casualties by this administration is a discrace.

[IndianaGreen]

22. There were two attacks

The first one is the one involving the Humvee and the truck that were shown burning by CNN. Initial reports is that there were 2 killed in that incident.

Here is the second incident, as reported by MSNBC in its usual way of burying it within another story:

Shortly afterward a huge explosion rocked the area, and there were unconfirmed reports from residents that U.S. Humvees had come under attack a few miles away.

Locals said the vehicles had hit landmines on the main highway between Khaldiya and Habbaniya, west of Baghdad.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/870749.asp?0cv=CB10

If the Iraqi resistance is now attacking convoys in order to atract US troops to the scene and then attacking the rescuers in force, then they are more organized than we were led to believe.

[dArKeR]

25. Police backed by U.S. soldiers and helicopters sealed a large part

of the center of the city Thursday in a raid to capture car thieves. Two men were arrested at an auto repair shop on suspicion of having stolen a police vehicle.

http://msnbc.com/news/870749.asp?0cv=CB10

For 2 suspects of car stealing.

[underpants]

28. I know. Reports are coming in so it will probably be a day before we know.

Unless Rummy has a briefing today which is unlikely as DC is shut/shutting down. W wouldn't dare address this directly.

Maybe a Centcom briefing but I think it is the middle of the night there now. Damn I forgot what the time difference is.

[0007]

23. Wish we could get some straight answers

Ho hum!

[spinbaby]

24. Interesting lines from the yahoo article

An Associated Press reporter who arrived on the scene saw four U.S. tanks surrounding the smoldering truck as helicopters hovered above.

Taking fire from unknown positions, U.S forces were firing with no obvious targets, in an apparent effort to protect themselves until reinforcements arrived, a witness said.

-------

I'm running across more and more articles that suggest that convoys are now routinely being guarded by tanks now. In this case, they don't actually say, but certainly impy, that the convoy was traveling with FOUR tanks.

Rmember how, in early Iraq coverage, we'd see footage of soldiers in markets and driving hummers around town? And then there was an announcement that the humvees would now travel in at least groups of three. Now we seem to have convoys guarded by tanks.

[underpants]

26. There was an article about wear and tear on Bradleys

I'm at home so posting a link would take 1/2 an hour, it was here in LBN I think.

Bradleys are now logging 1,200 miles a month, usually they travel about 800 miles a YEAR. AS someone who spent 3 years in a Bradley I can tell you that is a rough ride. In the article it had a quote from someone in the DoD or Centcom saying that no one had planned to have to use Bradleys to guard every convoy. The tracks, their wheels, are tearing up from the usage and sand and there is horrible problems in getting them new tracks and gear.

The lines you cited illustrate that the attackS came from out of nowhere and they didn't see where they came from. Could be from a mixture of more complicated attacks and fatigue, just a guess.

[alfredo]

34. Gee Clinton was roundly criticized when Americans

died in Somalia*, when is Bush going to be held accountable.

*an action that began during poppy Bush's term.

[DuctapeFatwa]

38. Clinton was roundly criticized because it was on TV

The bush regime would be roundly criticized if anyone got footage of dead Americans being dragged through Baghdad too.

Which of the 3 Crusader News Nets do you think would dare to show such footage if they had it?

[bluestateguy]

29. I told you so...

I have to say "I told you so" again. If this Administration had not pursued this policy these soldiers would still be alive today. Believe it or not, not every attack comes from a "Saddam loyalist". When you kill Iraqi police officers who are just doing their jobs or teenagers who just get in the wrong place at the wrong time it is foolish to think that there will not be a response.

[underpants]

31. MILLIONS told them so

Common sense comes into (or should have) play here too.

The question I continue to hear even middle-of-the-roaders ask is "What would YOU do if someone invaded us?"

This attack is definitely more coordinated and planned than we have seen or at least been told about. Man I feel for those guys and girls.

[snippy]

30. "Bring 'em on Bush" gets his wish. Again.

Whistle Ass needs terrorists.

[bemildred]

32. So, where are the "smart weapons"?

What is up with the "revolution in military affairs"?

And why is not more public attention being directed to
these miserable assholes degradation and destruction of the
US military's conventional warfighting capabilities in this
pointless foreign clusterfuck?

[Ashcroft Kutcher]

33. this is the site i go by

http://lunaville.org/warcasualties/Summary.aspx

[catmandu57]

35. Jesus fucking tap dancing christ on a crutch

What is this now, yesterday my count was 295. 295 + 3 = 298, 295 + 8 = 303. Bart had it at 314 yesterday, using his numbers at least 317, maybe 322 and who knows how many wounded there is.

Equipment is wearing out, our forces are wearing out, I haven't heard anything about morale for a while now but it has to be less than zero.
How long? How much longer before America demands answers and heads? Jesus fucking christ.

[wellst0nev0ter]

42. Number Who Died In Vietnam During 1963-1964: 324

Boy, can't wait till we pass THAT threshold :eyes:

[drewb]

58. Sadly enough that is a great statistic...

When is the rest of the country going to wake up???

[DuctapeFatwa]

36. Telegraph Link

At least eight American soldiers have been killed in a bomb and grenade attack on a military convoy west of Baghdad, according to reports.

Witnesses said up to 10 burned bodies were carried from a US transport vehicle after it drove over a bomb in the town of Khaldiya, about 50 miles west of Baghdad.

They said the convoy tried to continue after the first explosion but was hit by rocket-propelled grenades shortly afterwards.

Al-Arabiya television said eight Americans were killed and one wounded in the ambush.

US Central Command has not confirmed the attacks but reports said US tanks and helicopters have sealed off the area.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/09/18/ukhal.xml&sSheet=/portal/2003/09/18/ixportaltop.html

[saigon68]

41. BRING EM ON----g.w. bush (the unelected CHIMPANZEE) May 2003

Coming home to roost boys.

[TacticalPeek]

69. Fn A.

"I've been to war." - aWol January, 2003

http://www.motherjones.com/news/outfront/2003/02/ma_217_01.html



Shrub's got that Raygun vision: lala land.

His little mind's still AWOL.

[Mari333]

39. Burning to death..the worst possible way to die

and the parents of these kids will get the news..and the f*cking news stations will ignore it...

[Cush]

40. US Press still says 'wounded'

WIth Hurricane Izzy, this story will be downplayed..or they'll slip it in when peopel aren't paying attention

[LivingInTheBubble]

61. I'm amazed..

looking at google news, outlets worldwide (australia,uk,india) are reporting many dead. US news is still suggesting there were merely a couple wounded.

Is it a simple cover up or are they technically not lying, perhaps there were two soldiers killed and some from another countries force(or mercenaries).

I've a theory perhaps they hold off reporting for as long as possible and move on quickly to another story to reduce eyeball time.

Whichever way, I really wonder how compromised the american news media is.

[ellie]

44. Has anyone heard what

division was involved? My nephew is with the 82nd Airborne and my mom told me they were attached to the 10th Armored Division. I am trying to keep track of where he is. Thx

[zauberflote]

46. cnn reporting its the 82nd

CNN saying it's the 82nd Airborne. No further details.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/09/18/sprj.irq.main/index.html
Keep your fingers crossed.

[smallprint]

47. the numbers are fuzzy

uk telegraph is reporting 8 dead
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/09/18/ukhal.xml&sSheet=/portal/2003/09/18/ixportalto

so is an AP story in the guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1044840,00.html

but no u.s. media is reporting any deaths at all yet-- they are trying to hold back the news as best they can, i guess

i wonder how they will cover up this one?

[saigon68]

50. don't worry, they will cover it up

that's the new way to control the sheep. remember "we are winning" in my war they called it a "BODY COUNT"

[Fish Eye]

56. We need to bring back the body count

I remember asking my parents what that was when I was five years old. The truth must be told for the sheep to stand up against the fucking asshole who sent our troops to die in Iraq....for no good fucking reason!! 9/11 my ass.

[FlashHarry]

48. kick

:kick:

[Minstrel Boy]

49. There's mission creep, and there's also

casualty creep.

Eight reported dead in one ambush? A few months ago this would have been THE story, Isabel or no Isabel. But so far as they're aware of the news, many Americans have simply become inured to the deaths of their servicemen.

If things are heating up, what's another degree? Lobsters in the pot also adjust to new realities.

[IndianaGreen]

54. Update from MSNBC

It was not clear if the military casualty report included the second attack.

Hours later, soldiers pointed tank cannons at reporters every time they tried to approach to find out what had happen.

As it grew dark, the Americans pulled out, removing the burned truck with a crane.

About 100 Iraqis danced in the streets and carried a large photo of Saddam dressed in military fatigues. There was celebratory gunfire and the people chanted: “With our blood, with our souls, we sacrifice ourselves for you, Saddam.”

http://www.msnbc.com/news/870749.asp?0cv=CB10

The MSNBC story also describes several incidents in which US soldiers opened fire on civilians even though they were not under attack. Iraq is beginning to sound like the Philippines during the Philippines Insurrection. It was there where US Marines coined the term "gook" to refer to the guerrillas and the Filipino civilians they slaughtered. Iraqis could be the new "gooks"!

[screembloodymurder]

59. When you don't know who the enemy is

it pays to be a little trigger happy. I can't blame our troops. It's survival time.

[skip fox]

67. It's bad all the way around. Hard to "blame"

troops for being nervous and wired and shooting before they are "absolutely certain." Hard to blame Iraqis for wanting us gone. NOT HARD TO BLAME those who put this clusterf*ck in motion (i.e., W, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove, and other Neo-Cons).

[VolcanoJen]

51. Message from the Moderator

Although this story has changed, and in a tragic way, since first reported here at LBN, it's best if we can keep our discussion consolidated within the original thread, which happens to be this thread.

If you wish to post a significant update to the story within the original thread, it's helpful to use the word UPDATE within your subject line.

Thanks everyone!
VolcanoJen
DU Moderator

[trapper914]

55. Kick

Kick

[FlemingsGhost]

57. "Death by a thousand cuts."

Our fall will be epic...

[drewb]

60. Although I hope you are wrong, I fear that you are right...

WAKE UP AMERICA!!! WAKE THE F UP!!!

[RamboLiberal]

62. ABC has up on their site 3 KIA Breaking News

No link yet

[Sticky]

63. WHY is every other country reporting 8?

Here's tomorrow's Sydney Morning Herald:

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/09/18/1063625160267.html

....and yes, it says "According to an unconfirmed report by Dubai-based Al-Arabiya television, eight American soldiers were killed. "

So .... who do these news outlets depend on for confirmation? If it's Centcom then we're doomed in terms of ever finding out true facts.

[RamboLiberal]

65. MSNBC Web now reporting 3 as well

Though the story the headline is attached to hasn't yet been updated to reflect this.

[LivingInTheBubble]

64. is this a different attack though - here is an article

link
http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=3470676

[VolcanoJen]

66. Wolfie on CNN said it was the same attack...

... but it doesn't sound like it to me. Your link talks about Tikrit, where it seems the report of 8 dead came from a different region??

Nic Robertson filed an excellent report about the convoy attack in the Sunni Triangle, the one in which US CENTCOM insists we suffered two casualties (wounded). He showed riveting footage of Iraqis celebrating the convoy attack in the street, with one man insisting the attacks are not from pro-Saddam Baathists, but from anti-American Occupation Iraqis.

The fog of war... it's impossible to get to the truth, isn't it??

[smallprint]

68. reports of 8 dead come from Khaldiyah

this new attack is in Tikrit...

[dArKeR]

71. "The Americans opened fire when I took out my camera to film" - News24

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraq/0,,2-10-1460_1418430,00.html

[VolcanoJen]

72. Message from the Moderator

I realize there's been some confusion about the U.S. casualties suffered in Iraq today, but we really need to keep an eye out for duplicate threads.

It appears initially that there were two seperate attacks in which U.S. soldiers were killed; if we figure out that the stories below describe the same attack, we'll lock the latter thread. In the meantime, let's keep our LBN discussion consolidated into one of the below threads:

This is the latter thread:
MSNBC confirming 3 US soldiers killed in Tikrit today and 2 wounded

This is the thread you're currently in:
At least 3 US soldiers killed in Iraq ambush - BBC news

Thanks for your understanding on this sad day indeed,
VolcanoJen
DU Moderator

[dArKeR]

73. Mortars - It must be a terrible feeling for our children.

It seems this would change their attitude; mortars. Because before they were threatened while on patrols and when they got back to base at least they could feel at some type of ease. But now for them to have the feeling that not even their 'home' is safe must be just a terrible feeling. In my opinion everything will degrade seriously from here. Soldiers not up to a 'good mental state' while on patrols to accomplish their daily missions and protect themselves in the process. Also being more nervous and killing innocent civilians.

Pat Robertson should be praying for God to:
1. Impeach Bush
2. Convict Bush for the Murder of 40,000 human beings
3. Bring our children home by Sunday, (Before Me The Press whore show airs.)
4. Replace all our troops with the GOP Party and their operatives in the Whore Media and the Bush twins and all GOP Party children ages 18 to 80.

(Since God didn't listen to his Hurricane prayer)

[Mass_Liberal]

74. thats one of the biggest attacks

I've heard of in recent days

[Rebel_with_a_cause]

76. Three soldiers that we know of. They died for Cheney' oil.

It's sad and it's frustrating, knowing that there will be many others...

[joshcryer]

77. FUCK YOU BUSH.

FUCK YOU.

[Bozita]

78. Robert Fisk in Khaldiya reports eight Americans killed

This looks like an update to the story about 3 Americans killed in an ambush.

The rest of the article is available for a fee.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fisk/story.jsp?story=444826

Another day, another death-trap for the US

Eight American troops killed as Bush admits no link between Iraq and 11 September attacks

By Robert Fisk in Khaldiya

19 September 2003

The American Humvee had burnt out, the US troop transporter had been smashed by rockets and an Iraqi lorry - riddled by American bullets in the aftermath of the attack - still lay smouldering on the central reservation.