Rumsfeld tried to resign during scandal....

[TwilightZone]

WASHINGTON - Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld twice submitted his resignation last year during the scandal over the U.S. abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib, Iraq, but President Bush declined both times, officials at the Defense Department told NBC News on Thursday.

More....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6909202/

[DainBramaged]

1. I guess * was worried about losing his chump fall guy

[Pam-Moby]

2. What the matter Donald? Is it getting to hot for you? n/t

[Cyrano]

3. Did he think resigning would make him any less of a war criminal?

[Inland]

4. Plaid Adder's theory--nobody will take the job

Rummy doesn't want it, but nobody worth a shit will pick up after his mess.

[purduejake]

5. As if the administration wants to install somebody...

that is worthy of the job.

[Inland]

11. But the usual suspects are radioactive

EG, Feith, who resigned.

PA's thought makes some sense. 99% of Bush policy gets done through DOD. The secry is the elephant in the room.

So it has to be a person of some heft, and who wants it?

[CottonBear]

10. Exactly. Plaid Adder was spot on.

She wrote about this months ago. Who the hell would want his job? Would his deputy SoD have to step up to the plate if they let the Donald resign or could he refuse?

[TwilightZone]

15. Agreed. I suspect that we'd see a lot of "more-time-with-the-family"-itis.

I'm sorry, Mr. President, but I must decline. I have this sudden urge to spend more time with my family.

[fob]

20. That's a valid theory for why he's still there, but the reason for this

story is another prop up bush* as the solid guy who won't let a "good" man quit on his country. Pure bs spin job IMO.

[Dulcinea]

33. How about Wolfowitz?

He may be the only one worse than Rummy.

[Inland]

38. Oh, HE want's it. But he is radioactive. nt

[bluestateguy]

6. Why would he need Bush's permission to resign?

If he were to quit and stop coming to work every day, what would Bush do? Put him in jail? ...Never mind.

[TahitiNut]

8. "Serve the pleasure of the President."

If he didn't, he'd be in an airplane accident - a martyr for the Reich.

[grace0418]

13. sorry, I didn't see this post when i asked my question

I suppose he could've been threatened with the "Wellstone Special"

[Cocoa]

55. that's a very good question

and an obvious one, and I wonder if NBC News asked it.

[JAbuchan08]

7. My theory - a resignation would look bad for Bush

because it would go beyond vague condemnations of torture into recognition of the "abuses" at Abu Gharib actually being torture and something worth a resignation.

See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. Then you have no reason to resign.

[TwilightZone]

16. Though, he did have the opportunity to not stay on for term 2.

That seems to have worked for everyone else in the administration.

[w4rma]

24. "Admit no mistakes" - That is exactly why he wasn't allowed to quit. (nt)

[rocktivity]

50. DING DING DING! Gonnabuymeagun, you're our grand prize winner!

I don't think it's anything more complicated than that. Rummy's departure under any circumstances would send the message that President Mightymouse made a mistake in valuing Rummy, and President Mightmouse doesn't make mistakes. But assuming this is true, why would Rummy be bragging about it now? To make him look more "human" and worthy of public sympathy, and equally important, to make President Mightymouse look decisive and heroic.

Here's the dead giveaway: Rummy says he "...submitted my resignation to President Bush...and told him that...I felt that he ought to make the decision as to whether or not I stayed on..." That BUSH ought to make the decision? Rummy had ALREADY made the decision to hand in his resignation! You're supposed to go to your boss and either VOLUNTEER to resign, or ASK if he or she wants you to. And if the answer is no, you DAMN sure don't make it public knowledge!

:headbang:
rocknation

[NewYorkerfromMass]

63. Yep. Bush is perfect. He makes no mistakes.

This is a huge story. I wish the hell the press had asked this question last year. Anyway, it is stilla huge story.
Bush's incompetence must come to the fore.

[calimary]

66. I think this is part of it, too, plus Plaid Adder's suspicion.

Check this out - from the Village Voice, just after the inauguration: "Eve of Destruction"

http://www.truthout.org/docs_05/012105Z.shtml

Furthermore, as all good mafiosi know, you keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

[merwin]

9. THIS MEANS that it is something we should be pressing HARD.

If it was so bad that Rummy wanted to resign TWICE, then we should definately keep digging.

[physioex]

22. I think we dug pretty hard....

And I am glad to hear he resigned twice. But I think it's highly unlikely Shrub will let him go. The other boys at PNAC wouldn't be too happy.....

[Judi Lynn]

64. It almost sounds as if they didn't think they could expect

public reaction to be as subdued as it has been, and that they were originally afraid there would be a real backlash over this.

Apparently their "liberal media" did them proud by keeping significant coverage to a bare minimum and covering it up as quickly as possible with new, more important stuff, like the Lacey Peterson trial, Michael Jackson, etc.

[grace0418]

12. I don't get how you can refuse a resignation

Could he be arrested or something for just walking out? I'm not defending the asshat Rumsfeld, just trying to understand how that works.

[Kinkistyle]

14. Unless your a slave, or your boss has some goods on you.

Bush must really hold some scary info about Rumsfeld that would probably crush him if he let it loose.

[rooboy]

29. The convention is that you offer your resignation rather than announce it.

So in public office, there is usually the perogative of the boss to refuse to accept it. At that level of corruption in government, I'm sure Rummy was told to stay or else...

[Hobarticus]

62. I'm sure that was the case, offering to leave if Dubya wanted...

No way would Rummy leave, unless it was on a rail.

[rzemanfl]

17. * won't accept letters that are signed by a machine. n/t

[TwilightZone]

19. Great response.

Bravo. :thumbsup:

[DrZeeLit]

18. He knows too much. They can't let him out of the box.

Especially pre-election -- he's a time bomb waiting to blow. He knows where all the bodies are buried -- literally and figuratively.

I'd tell him... no small/private planes/jets.

[F33040]

21. twice

[karlrschneider]

23. It's like you can't "quit" the Mafia...

:eyes:

[annabanana]

25. Every time I try to get out..They PULL me back in.........hahahaha eom

[Megahurtz]

26. They probably threatened

to set him on fire or something..................:evilgrin:

[V Lee]

27. Maybe he can try again?

It's never too late. He and Perle and Feith can go crawl back under whatever rock they came from. And sit around recounting their PNAC fantasies of dominating the world and controlling all the oil in the Middle East with their buddies Israel and Saudi Arabia.

[TwilightZone]

28. If at first you don't succeed...

resign, resign again!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

30. Hrm...

“I submitted my resignation to President Bush twice during that period and told him that ... I felt that he ought to make the decision as to whether or not I stayed on,” Rumsfeld told Larry King in an interview airing later Thursday on CNN. “And he made that decision and said he did want me to stay on.”


Submitting his resignation or getting political ass-coverage?

Easy call.

[Roland99]

31. I wouldn't be surprised if he spoke to Bush about it...but submitting one?

Doubtful.



We know Bush's decision-making process revolves around keeping those who will not question him. Rumsfeld is one of those people and Bush couldn't dare let any hint of failure or making the wrong decision come out in the press in an election year.

Heavens to Betsy!!

[TwilightZone]

35. I wouldn't be surprised if he did submit it.

It wouldn't surprise me if he did actually submit the resignation and was talked out of it. I can't imagine he's too thrilled to stay in that job. He's target #1 for criticism as Iraq worsens and our troops keep dying, and he can count on being the fall guy when the time comes.

The administration could have easily couched it in "Rumsfeld has chosen not to stay on for the second term" language and it wouldn't have been all that negative. That worked pretty well for Powell and the others that took that approach.

[Roland99]

58. Well....3rd time's a charm, eh?

:)

[TwilightZone]

59. We can hope.

I personally can't believe the idiot still has a job.

[Roland99]

60. No kidding. Imagine if this had happened under Clinton?

The right would be attempting to impeach the entire government.

[TwilightZone]

61. And the media would have already convicted them.

Interesting how Clinton was responsible for everything that happened during his presidency (according to the RW and the media), yet Bush is responsible for nothing, even though Bush's transgressions are exponentially more severe than Clinton's were.

[underpants]

32. Nope sorry try again I don't believe a word of it

Rummy and Cheney call the shots Rove and Bartlett write the script and W sells it and for some unexplainable reason people buy it.

[lebkuchen]

34. If Rummy leaves, corporations will flee Iraq

and the RW corporate campaign donations will go up in smoke.

[jmcgowanjm]

36. Like Hitler saying byebye 110842, ain't gonna happen

Rummy/Cheney are the architects here.

They'll leave when bush43 does a "Nixon on
the helo" routine.

BTW-that torture scandal thing ain't over.
There is no statute of limitations on war crimes.

The murder of René Schneider

These facts and circumstances presented a clear picture
of complete cooperation between the appellants and
the Klansmen, which amply justified the jury in finding that
the prisoners were not taken from the appellants by threat
or intimidation, but were voluntarily surrendered to the
Klansmen to be beaten by them. It was evidently inconceivable
to the jury that the officers in this rural community did not at
least recognize some of these disguised men and condone
their acts.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jksonc/schneider.html

[lebkuchen]

48. They're the architects, alright

All the more reason to force one out, and neuter Bush.

As you probably know, when an army division returns from a 12 -18 mo. deployment from Iraq, unlike Vietnam (I presume), a big meeting tent is set up by the runways where the troops enter. There is a debrief on expectations, and cautions about avoiding domestic violence, which is common before/after a deployment. The couple must go through a two week seminar to reacclimate to each other in order to avoid what had happened at Fort Bragg.

While the army is taking measures to preempt personal violence post-deployment, the DoD is headed by a guy, Rumsfeld, who is so "busy" in his job that he "can't possibly anticipate" tortures going on under his watch. He's too busy to hold accountable 1) generals who give public speeches about the joy of shooting other people 2) generals who were responsible for subordinates perpetrating torture at Abu Ghraib/Gitmo, thereby forcing the hand of a public advocacy legal center to file suit in a different country to hold Rumsfeld accountable.

Now we have a WH counsel turned AG who couldn't care less about the Geneva Conventions.

So, I wonder, why are we setting up all these tents?

[TwilightZone]

37. Why?

I don't see that happening. The RW corporations that are making a killing (pardon the intentional pun) certainly aren't going to leave because Rumsfeld does.

Halliburton and subsidiaries, for example, are going nowhere. Their meal ticket isn't Rumsfeld; it's Cheney. Other companies with no-bid contracts are supported by the entire administration, so they'd have no reason to bail.

[jmcgowanjm]

40. Watch the players move their pieces. 1st sign Vietnam was lost

First, the US was taken off the gold standard in 1971.
Oil went up in 1973.

Faced with waning international economic power,
military superiority is the United States’ only tool for
world domination.

Project Censored
(#19) U.S. Dollar vs. the Euro:
Another Reason for the Invasion of Iraq

http://www.projectcensored.org/publications/2004/19.html

The only reason Halliburton is viable today
is because of 911 and the massive bailout it
has recieved since. Which will stop once the War on Terror
is over, which it will be once the US has been driven out of
Iraq. And heads will roll in DC when this happens.

A Letter to America

You're gutting the Constitution. Already your home can
be entered without your knowledge or permission, you can
be snatched away and incarcerated without cause, your mail
can be spied on, your private records searched. Why isn't this
a recipe for widespread business theft, political intimidation,
and fraud? I know you've been told all this is for your own
safety and protection, but think about it for a minute.
Anyway, when did you get so scared? You didn't used to
be easily frightened.

You're running up a record level of debt. Keep spending at
this rate and pretty soon you won't be able to afford any
big military adventures. Either that or you'll go the way of
the USSR: lots of tanks, but no air conditioning. That will
make folks very cross. They'll be even crosser when they
can't take a shower because your short-sighted bulldozing
of environmental protections has dirtied most of the water
and dried up the rest. Then things will get hot and dirty
indeed.

Indeed

http://www.countercurrents.org/iraq-atwood9403.htm

[lebkuchen]

53. How are you invested these days?

Property, I'll bet.

[jmcgowanjm]

67. Well, what my ancestors are/were fond of saying

they're not making any more of it.

Instead of property, raw land. but being out of debt
1st, then laddering money market, CD's, 10 yr
notes. Finally, doin' my best to keep the outflow
below the income.

[lebkuchen]

42. Then why do you think Rummy is staying?

To boost morale and ensure (re)enlistment quotas are met? :)

[TwilightZone]

43. I think he's staying because he makes a convenient target.

If you "let" Rumsfeld resign, you lose the primary target in the Iraq mess. With Rumsfeld gone, Bush no longer has a buffer to absorb blame/criticism as Iraq drags on.

[lebkuchen]

44. Army Sec. White would still be around then

taking the hits while allowing Rumsfeld to "do his job."

[TwilightZone]

46. No, I'm talking about if Bush had let Rumsfeld resign.

With Rumsfeld gone, the most prominent figure(head) in the Iraq mess, and the person to whom many people and much of the media target their criticism of Iraq, would be gone.

White has nowhere near the exposure publicly that Rumsfeld does, so I just don't see the majority of the blame/criticism shifting to him if Rumsfeld goes away. That being the case, I think Bush would face a lot more heat.

[lebkuchen]

49. You don't think the big reason why White left

was because he was a huge lightning rod for the Bush administration, drawing too much negative attention?

[TwilightZone]

51. Sure, he's a lightning rod, but not at the level of Rumsfeld...

now and certainly not if things continue to worsen and the "war" drags on. Rumsfeld will be *the* target as public opinion of Iraq continues to decline.

[lebkuchen]

56. Rumsfeld as lightning rod

Given that, will he show up to Munich next week?

[jmcgowanjm]

47. To boost morale and ensure (re)enlistment quotas?

Only if he's handing out Meth. Rummy and Chertoff
are the Scariest looking 1/2 humans I've ever seen.
I could easily see both in a ReichsMarshall uniform
w/ that big IronCross around their necks.

29 Feb 1968 Robert McNamara resigns as Secretary
of Defense, apparently deciding the Vietnam War
was unwinnable.

When Rummy goes, the War on Terror will be seen
as unwinnable. No more invasions of Sovereign
Nations-not Iran not Venezuela, not Cuba.

The $ will no longer be the world's reserve currency,
and on and on.

[lebkuchen]

52. When Rummy goes,

the "war on terror," aka foreign control of the Iraqi freedom fighters, will be seen as unwinnable, leaving Rummy/Cheney/Bush's corporate friends without a future in Iraqi investment--on top of no more invasions etc. I agree, that's why he's still around, but also why it's essential he leave.

[earth mom]

39. Rummy realized that he could run, but couldn't hide...

and it'll all catch up with him someday, one way or another.

[indepat]

41. Must like where Rummy, Wolfie, Condi, and Alberto are taking this nation

[Earth_First]

45. Sounds like a criminal on the run to me...

n/t

[Bouncy Ball]

54. They won't let you out of gangs, either.

Unless you die.

[EST]

57. Gotta remember, too-

Rumfilled knows where ALL the other bodies are buried! Hehe

On Edit: Sorry did not read preceeding poswts closely enough. Now I'm redundant-again.

[Jacobin]

65. He didn't try hard enough, as far as I'm concerned

[Rose Siding]

68. He's such a screw up, he can't even QUIT effectively!

It would be a bushie first- usually the biggest failures get a nice promotion.