Cop challenges bigamy law on religious grounds

[truthpusher]

http://www.harktheherald.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=46960&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

Cop challenges bigamy law on religious grounds

Travis Reed THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

SALT LAKE CITY -- A former police officer and convicted polygamist challenged Utah's 100-year-plus ban on plural marriage before the state Supreme Court Thursday, calling it an infringement of his right to practice his religion.

Rodney Holm, an officer in the polygamous community of Hildale, was convicted of bigamy and illegal sex with a 16-year-old girl that he had taken as a third wife.

His lawyer, Rodney Parker, argued Thursday that polygamy is essential to Holm's religion, and barring him from practicing it violates his First Amendment rights.

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http://www.harktheherald.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=46960&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

[htuttle]

1. Is statutory rape essential to his religion, too?

What is it with polygamists and young girls?


Are they polygamists just so that they can keep picking up younger wives as their current ones get older?

[arcane1]

3. young girls and forced marriage...

I'm not against the idea of being married to more than one person, I don't really see why that is illegal, but it seems w/this bunch it always includes extra baggage that's always never in the interest of the woman (or girl)

[Bridget Burke]

6. The wives in these groups have about 10 children each...

So they tend to age quickly.

[AllyCat]

21. Jon Krakauer's book Under the Banner of Heaven

explores this idea of this sect of Mormons always marrying young girls. Mostly, they do it because that age is so much more gullible, mentally maleable, able to be brainwashed, however you want to call it. If they were older, they wouldn't be as easily swayed. Younger, and they might not be fertile. For these freaks, it is essential to have sex only when the woman is ovulating, hence the reason to have so many of them. That way, they he can have more sex without it being bad in the eyes of God.

Basically, I think they are a bunch of sick, perverted fucks.

[jdj]

27. what's perverted about them is their linking it with religion.

many men (and some women) fantasize about having a harem. That's about sex, and human nature.

What is perverted is saying that because you want something, God wants you to have it, says you should have it, and that anyone who tries to keep you from having it is wrong and is going to hell. That's the sickness, that, and the fact that the girls are children and the children are subject to physical abuse, rape and incest. I don't add psychological abuse because the whole lifestyle is psychologically abusive.

God does not care who they fuck or that they fuck. If there is a God, he sure doesn't want them fucking minors that are genetically related to them.

[geniph]

2. While the bigamy doesn't trouble me, the statutory rape does

It is not legal for a grown man to have sex with a 16-year-old girl in the state of Utah. By Utah state law, the age of consent is 18.

I could care less how many spouses someone has, provided they aren't drawing illegal amounts of state-provided benefits. What does bother me is statutory (and sometimes more than statutory) rape of a child. No 16-year-old is mature enough to make a contract for life. They are not consenting adults; they aren't old enough to understand the ramifications well enough to give informed consent.

[Scairp]

15. That's the thing

"I could care less how many spouses someone has, provided they aren't drawing illegal amounts of state-provided benefits".

They are almost always getting welfare, because the women who are not legally married to the "husband" can AFDC, or whatever it's called these days, for all of those dozens of children he has fathered. That's how they got that Green guy who has about 5 or 6 "wives" and was living out in the Utah desert in trailers. He was convicted of some kind of welfare fraud. Can't get them for bigamy if they don't apply for marriage licenses while still married to another woman.

As for the age of the girls, most states consider 16 to be the age of consent. But forcing teenage girls into a faux marriage to men old enough to be their fathers isn't legal. This whole practice makes me ill but no politician in Utah has the cajones to do anything about it. The guy who prosecuted Green lost his job afterward.

[smiley_glad_hands]

4. I have a hard enough time dealing with my one wife.

What in the hell does he mean by religion----some kind a sadistic religion---wanting more than one wife! Jeesh---one is enough. 16yo = jail time by the way

[rogerashton]

13. Bigamy is a crime that the wisdom of the future will punish

with a penalty called trigamy.

Bierce, I believe

[Voltaire99]

26. Brilliant. :-)

Ah, Bierce. His wit is purest, er, Ambrosia. ;-)

[KissMeKate]

5. Hildale- historic forced teen marriage Mormon town.

This place has some REALLY sick stuff going on.

[kimchi]

7. I've got no problem with CONSENSUAL polygamy.

I do have a problem when it is forced, or coerced, or mandated for only one gender, through religion or any other means. And I have a problem with those who prey on 16 year olds. Very few people that age are mature enough to know what they want for the rest of their lives.

My religion says that the naked body is beautiful and sacred. Unfortunately we don't have enough political power to push for laws allowing nudity in public.

[TahitiNut]

10. I want to go to your church.

:evilgrin: Anyone who'd regard my naked body as beautiful and sacred is someone I'd like to hang around with.

[kimchi]

14. TN, you know you are always welcome at my church!

It is under the auspices of the UU. Whether one may be nude during ritual is up to the host/ess of the event. When we use a regular church is isn't allowed.

Almost all the warm weather rituals are held on a huge farm in the middle of nowere, so clothing is optional. No one bats an eye at my nudity; except for when I was pregnant and my husband drew a beautiful Earth on my huge belly! (I'm pretty sure the cows don't mind, either.)

On edit: I'm already a practicing feminist witch, and I've tried lesbianism. When you gonna make me leave my husband?:evilgrin:

[TahitiNut]

17. Well, UU's one of my preferred churches already.

At least when I choose to join some 'organized' group. I tend to frequent outdoor gardens and off-hours Buddhist temples for the stimulation of 'place' as I contemplate the IS. I wish I'd gotten to giggle in lovingly respectful awe at the EarthBelly. Nifty idea!

I'd never disrespect the integrity of someone's commitments, least of all my favorite folk like y'all, little cabbage. :loveya:
As you surely know, I prefer to celebrate loving relationships with group hugs and puppy piles. :grouphug:

[Anakin Skywalker]

18. "...the naked body is beautiful and sacred".

So is the tenet of your religion "Look, but don't touch"? :( What a shame! Heh heh heh.

[Blue_Tires]

8. my religion calls for me to KILL freep assclowns like this

any lawyers here think i can win that case in court??? LOL

[TahitiNut]

9. Oh great. Let's have human sacrifices!

:eyes:

[Mari333]

11. Well, if he wins, that opens the door to polyandry

10 husbands for one wife. Watch peoples heads explode if that becomes law.

[havocmom]

23. Mr. Twain alluded to the differences in the genders' capacity for sex

being a good agruement in favor of it. That old rascal was WAY ahead of his time!

[Megahurtz]

12. Just another fucking pervert

wanting to make it legal.

[lazarus]

19. polygamy is perverted?

That's an odd sentiment for a liberal.

[geniph]

20. I think (I hope) the previous poster was referring to the statutory rape

not the polygyny.

[susanna]

25. That was my take...

It isn't the multiple wife issue so much; it's the age of consent issue for me. The fact that certain types of men, who have a "thing" for underage women, could suddenly convert to a religion that allows their sickness some sort of legitimacy appalls me.

[lazarus]

30. That's what I'm hoping

:shrug:

[NYC Liberal]

16. Human sacrifices are essential to my religion.

WHY ARE YOU INFRINGING ON MY RIGHTS?? </sarcasm>

[Psephos]

22. Gay marriage. Polygamy. Polyandry. I say why the hell not?

With the usual disclaimers re: marrying sixteen-year-olds.

They used to call interracial marriage miscegeny and outlaw it, too. Times change.

If you want to live in a hetero two-person marriage, do it. If you want to marry your lesbian gf, do it. If you want to live with four husbands or six wives, do it. As long as everyone goes in with their eyes open, then who else's business is it?

There have been humans on Earth for a lot longer than there have been marriages. We seem to have survived just fine.

[jdj]

28. Good luck with that.

The fundies won't allow THAT either.

I'm not sure that this is the best environment for children, and if the mormon example bears out it's a horrible environment.

I can see a grouping of three people or four even, but when you get one asshole playing God and a household of other partners competing for his limited time and affection, and they keep getting younger and the older ones keep getting shoved further to the back of the line.. well, it seems like it would seethe with resentment and buried anger, which they won't know, because they don't even know what feelings are anyway. And children absorb everything in their immediate enviroment, they can't help it..so they would always be drinking this in.

[Psephos]

29. I hear you, but...

I hear the same kinds of obstructionist arguments from traditionalists regarding gay marriage (same in terms of worry "for the children," not in terms of family heirarchical competition). And no, I'm not calling you an obstructionist! In fact, I rather agree with you - but am trying to avoid having different sets of standards for different sets of people.

It's probably a political nonstarter, at least for now. But as a matter of discussion, it's worth a few keystrokes.

From where I sit, the taboo against interracial marriage is over, and good riddance. The taboo against gay marriage is beginning to disintegrate, and good riddance. The taboo against other forms of marriage will be next - and cautiously I say, good riddance. I don't see how you can say to some groups of people they're free to transcend traditional definitions of marriage, and not say it to others. It's discrimination. Especially when all the old options remain open to those who wish to continue them.

My guess is that's exactly what the disenfranchised will say, too.

Peace.

[LiviaOlivia]

24. I recommend the following for informative read

God's Brothel: The Extortion of Sex for Salvation in Contemporary Mormon and Christian Fundamentalist Polygamy and the Stories of 18

by Andrea Moore-Emmett