Destroyed embryo deemed human

[kskiska]

A frozen embryo destroyed in a Chicago fertility clinic was a human being whose parents are entitled to file a wrongful-death lawsuit, a Cook County judge ruled Friday.

Attorneys on both sides of the abortion issue said it was the first such ruling they had heard of as the country debates whether stem cells derived from embryos can be used in research and medicine.

Alison Miller and Todd Parrish hoped to conceive a child with help from the Center for Human Reproduction, but the one fertilized egg the couple created was thrown out "in error" by a clinic worker.

Friday, Judge Jeffrey Lawrence II said "a pre-embryo is a 'human being' ... whether or not it is implanted in its mother's womb" and the couple is entitled to seek the same compensation awarded to other parents whose children are killed.

(snip)

"This couple was trying to have children," he said. "They had nine blastocysts, the doctor said one looked great. So it was frozen and they came back later to have it unfrozen, when they were told, 'Whoops -- we made a clerical mistake and threw it in the garbage.'"

more…
http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-egg05.html

[Mountainman]

1. This is pure bullshit

If the embryo dies in the mother can she be charged with murder?

Welcome the the brave new world of the Christian taliban.

No other religion would do this.

[rodeodance]

6. "If the embryo dies in the mother can she be charged with murder?

well, there have been cases when mother is using drugs (maybe other instances) whereby the mother has been charged --although I do not know if it was murder or reckless endangerment or some other legelese.

[Warpy]

17. Women who miscarry could be charged with

involuntary manslaughter. Sexually active women who have menses could be charged with involuntary manslaughter. This whole thing is STUPID.

Yes, their property was destroyed. Considering what a woman has to go through for invitro fertilization, yes, this is tragic.

However, there was no guarantee that blastocyst would ever have implanted, or that once implanted, it would have resulted in an infant.

This addlepated sentimentalization of a fertilized ovum as an entire human being with self determination is insane.

I wish these people would just go away. Maybe if they get crazy enough, we'll finally be able to march them back to the lunatic fringe where they belong.

[DBoon]

27. That recent bill introduced in VA

Where a woman who has a miscarriage had to report it to the police within 12 hours?

Yup, they are already thinking along those lines

[Eurobabe]

65. Which VA loon thought this up??

Eric Cantor??

[katamaran]

68. Miscarriage bill was introduced...

...by John Cosgrove (R)-Chesapeake. The wording said that if a woman had a miscarriage and didn't report it to police within 12 hours (including the sex and whether the baby was of Hispanic origin), she could face 12 months in jail and a $2000 fine. His "reasoning" was to help create a larger penalty on people who either miscarry and dump the fetus in a ditch or have a full term baby and leave them to die. The language of the bill was both WAY too general and too specific. He got a couple thousand letters and emails and he withdrew the bill, saying that we liberals were all a bunch of morons.

[DBoon]

78. Search DU

I think it lasted about a week before it was ridiculed out of existence. About a month ago or so.

[Demeter]

56. She Should Have Got Her Money Back

Those blastocysts cost several thou apiece.

[rodeodance]

2. oh, my gosh--"a pre-embryo is a 'human being' . says this judge.

[noamnety]

3. Is it legal to deep freeze humans?

Seems to me if they are going to claim it's a human, they need to shut down the clinic for putting people in a freezer. :)

Mandatory death certificates for all embryos that aren't implanted!

[postulater]

21. Yes!

That is cruel and unusual punishment and probably would be considered torture. Those parents who froze their pre-embryonic child should be arrested for war-crimes!
:evilgrin:

[whatelseisnew]

86. Remember Ted Williams?

Ted Williams Frozen In Two Pieces

NEW YORK, August 12, 2003

(AP) Ted Williams was decapitated by
surgeons at the cryonics company where
his body is suspended in liquid nitrogen,
and several samples of his DNA are
missing, Sports Illustrated reported.

The magazine's report, appearing in the
issue that hits newsstands Wednesday, is
based on internal documents, e-mails,
photographs and tape recordings supplied
by a former employee of Alcor Life
Extension Foundation.
...
The operation was completed and
Williams' head and body were preserved
separately. The head is stored in a steel
can filled with liquid nitrogen. It has been
shaved, drilled with holes and accidentally
cracked 10 times, the magazine said.
Williams' body stands upright in a 9-foot
tall cylindrical steel tank, also filled with
liquid nitrogen.

[bahrbearian]

4. Is this one of the "Frivolous Lawsuits " I hear about?

[dsc]

10. No

While it is a stretch to call it a human being, that clinic charged a mint to provide a service which is the only way that couple had a shot of conceiving. They deserve compensation for this malpractice just like any other.

[bahrbearian]

19. Maybe its Gods will that they can't conceive in a conventional way.

[dsc]

23. It is God's will I have 20/200 vision without my glass

I will still sue your ass if you break them.

[Castilleja]

38. I think they deserve compensation, but not thru

a wrongful death suit. No death occurred here.

[NashVegas]

61. And There Is Never Any Guarantee

a woman would be able to carry to term, for that matter.

[never_get_over_it]

63. Exactly

thank you!

[dansolo]

45. Malpractice, but not wrongful death

I agree that they have grounds for a malpractice suit. But to charge the clinic with wrongful death seems to be politically motivated.

[AngryAmish]

82. IL law is the problem with malpractice v. wrongful death

In IL a death resulting from malpractice is still considered malpractice. The real problem is called the "Moorman Doctrine". In IL, when there is a tort that does not cause physical injury the only recoverable damages are economic. (There are exceptions but these are well defined).

So, in this case, these people have no damages for the destruction of what they hoped to be their famalies. Should they have no remedy? A breach of contract claim - with no damages for their loss of society - is all they have left. This ruling gives them a remedy.

[renegade000]

5. they look human to me

:eyes:

[rodeodance]

7. I was thinking the same thing-but BushCo would not put this case in

that category.

[rodeodance]

11. as far as I can tell from this story --it is a 'wrongful-death' action

.......While the state's definitions of when life begins provided the basis for their case, they also relied on a pair of memos from clinic chairman Dr. Norbert Gleicher.

Gleicher says he was "extremely sorry" for "this very obvious error" caused by a "communication mix-up," finishing with an "offer of a free cycle as a gesture of goodwill on our part."

He said those responsible no longer work for the clinic: One left to work for a different Chicago fertility clinic, and another left to spend more time with her children.

Connell and Roberts said the couple should be able to sue for their loss, but under a tort or breach-of-contract claim, not a wrongful-death action.

[DBoon]

29. Didn't they vote for Bush/Cheney in Ohio?

They must be human then!

[Cats Against Frist]

49. If those things are Human Beings, why can't I marry a penguin???

People are having a really hard time, these days, dealing with what's real and what's arbitrary and what's symbolic, and what's subjective.

And to think, it's the supposed "moral absolutists" that are fucking everything up.

1. These are humans and if you un-freeze them, you murder them, because "any human in any stage of development is protected."

2. But they're for the death penalty for retarded people and slaughtering in the name of foreign investment.

3. But that's a secondary problem because men are marrying men, and women are marrying women, and if that happens, I might marry a penguin, which

4. is still more sentient than the above globs.


These people are fucking nuts. They're not really "absolutes" if you have a whole bunch of "conditions." Are they not smart enough to realize this? They're making rules that are just as arbitrary as anyone else's set of rules.

If these decisions are being based on one set of arbitrary criteria, which is derived from one interpretation of a very symbolic and metaphorical morality tale, it sounds to me like we're a full-fledged theocracy. The only absolutes I see, however, is that they are absolutely full of bullshit.

[lawladyprof]

58. When I think of the thousands and thousands of Iraqi children

who laughed and played and were learning to read and count and understand their world and loved their parents and fought with the brothers and sisters and then I find their deaths equated with the destruction of a cluster of cells--truly I find that my country has gone absolutely mad.

[LiberalFighter]

69. Look like frog eggs to me

[Mike Niendorff]

8. good god.

> "This couple was trying to have children," he said. "They had nine
> blastocysts, the doctor said one looked great. So it was frozen and
> they came back later to have it unfrozen, when they were told, 'Whoops
> -- we made a clerical mistake and threw it in the garbage.'"

"... and then, just by sheer godly fortune, this nice Republican lawyer shows up on our doorstep and says 'Hey, I think we can use your misfortune to push our political agenda!' I mean, wow, is that a great break or what? Praise the Lord and get thee to the courthouse!"


MDN

[NC_Nurse]

9. So why don't they just make some more?

The company could pay for their expenses to create a new embryo since they made a mistake. Why do they have to act like it's a murder? What a bunch of shit!
Many of the embryos that "look great" still aren't successfully implanted and carried to term...

What they'll end up with is fertility docs who will have skyrocketing malpractice insurance and storage facilities with same and then they'll be bitching about THAT!

Christ! What a bunch of idiots!

[rodeodance]

12. oh, but Bush is sympathic to all those docs with rising malpractice!

[VegasWolf]

36. Yes, and I will bet these Conservative lawyers don't want to limit

the damage awards to 100,000.

[arwalden]

13. Oh Bro-therrr! Gimme A Fucking Break!

Their damages amount to NO MORE than the service fees paid to the clinic and maybe a couple of extra bucks for cab-fare and their time and trouble.

[dsc]

14. and if for some reason they can't replace them?

what about that? On edit. Harvesting eggs is a very painful proceedure from what I have heard.

[arwalden]

16. Okay... Throw In A Couple Of More Bucks For Their Discomfort...

... and inconvenience. Also factor in with that dollar figure the actual likelihood that the single egg would have attached itself to the wall of the uterus (or not). Their disappointment is understandable, but successful results are never 100% certain. Fertility clinics that advertise in the DC area offer 7 attempts with multiple eggs for one set price (or your money back)... so clearly one attempt with a SINGLE egg is extremely unlikely to have produced a pregnancy.

It's still not a human and it's not subject to the same civil penalties normally associated with "wrongful death" suits of HUMAN BEINGS. On the very face of it this is completely absurd.

One might even say "frivolous".


edit: clarity

[Mike Niendorff]

18. point taken, but that doesn't put it on par with loss of a child.

I can certainly see arguments for financial recovery here, but redefining this situation to be identical to when a hospital mistake kills someone's son or daughter, that's just absurd.


MDN

[Crunchy Frog]

20. No, it's not painful.

They put you under for it. However, the entire process is very grueling. It involves a few weeks of multiple daily injections, whacked out hormone levels, abdominal pain from ovaries that are swollen with multiple ripening eggs, daily blood draws and ultrasounds. In other words, it's not simply a matter of "oh, just give them a free cycle and that will compensate them". Especially considering that some cycles are unsuccessful.

I think that they are entitled to pretty major compensation, but that wrongful death is taking things too far. I can't agree that a blastocyst is a human being and its destruction should be treated the same way as a homicide. That opens up a huge can of worms, and plays into the RW agenda on abortion and on reducing women's rights over their own bodies if they could potentially be harboring an embryo.

[dsc]

22. Even your post says it is

abdominal pain from ovaries that are swollen with multiple ripening eggs,

This couple does deserve major compensation and I also agree it is a stretch to call this wrongful death. I was taking issue with the description frivolous.

[arwalden]

26. But The Lawsuit IS Frivolous... (EDIT: Added a PS)

isn't the crux of their argument based on their claim that the egg was a human being? Isn't THAT why this is so controversial and newsworthy?

>> I was taking issue with the description frivolous. <<

I'm uncertain how I could have been any clearer, but obviously this is my fault for not being more precise in my message.

-- Allen

(PS: If you were taking exception to the use of the word "frivolous", then why did you take issue with *my* post when I had not yet used that word? I only used the word "frivolous" after your first objection to my post, but in your last message, you explain that "frivolous" was the word you were objecting to... but I had not yet said that word. Hmmm. I think you might have responded to the wrong person... I hate it whenever I do that.)

[dsc]

30. According to the article they sued under lots of grounds

and the judge made them take this route.

[arwalden]

32. Must Be One Of Those "Activist" Judges We Hear So Much About, Huh?

:eyes:

[Crunchy Frog]

28. Actually, discomfort probably would have

been a more accurate word to use, at least based on my experience. At any rate, I had thought you were referring to the egg retrieval process itself. That one, I think, would be extremely painful if you weren't under for it.

At any rate, I appreciate that what you're really disputing is people's attempts to minimize what's actually involved in the process. I completely agree with you on that.

[LiberalFighter]

71. Cycle being the procedure??

If so, then why would anyone in their right mind want to go thru that procedure again? ESPECIALLY with the same clinic?

[Ilsa]

53. Taking the drugs for multiple ovulation is dangerous also.

For starters, you feel like crap because of the hormones. The procedure involves pain, and we don't know for certain if taking the hormones might cause a long term health problem from over stimulating the ovaries.

Also, I don't know how old that woman is, but what if she can't ovulate any more? What if she did this because she needed chemo and did the IVF so she'd have good eggs if she survived her cancer?

Their pain is being hijacked for a political agenda. They should get their investment back and a fine, but not a "wrongful death" deal. But I would caution anyone not to jump to conclusions that re-doing this procedure is no big deal.

[LiberalFighter]

70. It was a risk they took with no guarantees

They should be compensated for the one embryo only and there should be punitive damages for incompetency on the part of the clinic.

[proudbluestater]

79. DSC re:

"Harvesting eggs is a very painful proceedure from what I have heard."

Nothing is more painful that drug-free childbirth, believe me!

This is pure bullshit. Now a zygote has rights superior to the mother?

[Coastie for Truth]

15. This is just an "Activist Judge" who is "Legislating from the bench"

Same dollar award result - but no "judicial activism" or "judicial legislating"--

"This is medical malpractice - like amputating the wrong leg. Since this is a case of first impression on the measure of damages, we hold that the measure of damages should be the measure of damages for wrongful death."

But, like Houston trial lawyer John O'Neil, Judge Lawrence is "running" for Federal Judge.

[mulethree]

24. what about the other 8?

"They had nine blastocysts, the doctor said one looked great.
So it was frozen "

The other 8 were presumably not great and not frozen?

I get the impression that the parents made the decision, on
the doctors advise, to dispose of 8 pre-embryo's. But when
one is disposed through error then it's wrongful death?

[dsc]

25. I think looked great here

meant looked like it had fertilized. They often don't. The other 8 were just dishes filled with sperm and egg.

[NickB79]

46. No, they were all fertilized embryos

It says there were 9 blastocysts total. A blastocyst by definition is formed 5-7 days after an egg is fertilized, and has started to differentiate into two different cell types and a central cavity.

[bettyellen]

47. nope, a blastocyst is fertilized and this woman allowed 8 to be discarded

sounds like conspiricy to commit murder. unless this woman wants the clinc judged for crimes she also commited.....
they look at the blastocysts for vigor and potential genetic damage, just as some decide to abort after amnio due to probable birth defects, these people create more blastocysts than they intend to implant to help insure a healthy baby. what this judge calls "wronful death" is a premditated decision made all the time in these clinics by both doctors and the potential mothers. this judge is an idiot.
why aren't the fundies all over this? because they like having families too much? because they can't accept god's hand in preventing them from reproducing?

[lowreed]

73. Thank you...

I always wonder how the right to lifers can justify the trashing of
embryos/blastocysts/fertilized eggs by prospective parents undergoing
fertility "treatment". Who decides which one of the little tadpoles are "viable" and which go in the trash bin?

[bettyellen]

74. yep, it's a dirty little secret, and the selective abortions when

women doing fertility treatments have quints and whatnot....
what does the religous right say about that?
and i'm sorry, but i want some stem cells out of those fucking clinics!
hey, it's the least they could do if they are going to throw them away...
both the patients and the doctors owe a significant a beneficial part of their lives to genetic research. so i think they ought to pony up some blastocytes already!

[Canuckistanian]

31. Pretty soon we'll be charged with mass murder for masturbating

Just watch...

[Old and In the Way]

34. Crimes against humanity.

The government will need to put webcams in the rooms of all males to make sure no one is creating mass murder. 14 year old boys taken to the Hague to stand trial for their crimes....oh, the humanity!

:-)

[ultraist]

41. Spill & kill! Watch out boys, your next!

How ironic that the Repukes are pushing for tort reform yet this lawsuit is being precedented on Repuke stand, that an unplanted embyro is a child.

POTENTIAL, with and an UNKNOWN PROBABILITY of developing into a human life does not equate to human life. I'd say the defense team ought to bring in some statisticians to present some numbers. How can any judge rule, since there was a 1 in 1000 chance (or whatever the odds are) it would develop into a human, we are going to rule it was human.

You cannot decide IF it is a human life based on probabilities. It either WAS or WAS NOT.

This judge is being irrational predicating rulings on HIS RELIGIOUS beliefs! That Repuke judge better CAP the settlement! NO MORE THAN $250,000. Under Tort Reform, it doesn't matter if someone threw out some cells in a petri dish or killed your ten year old through negligence, $250,000 is the MAXIMUM. Whether you lost your pinky or your child is permenantly brain damaged and requires costly medical care for life, there is a cap.

[PassingFair]

50. Death penalty...

if it could happen to Onan....

[LizW]

33. Potential scenarios arising from this ruling

Cleaning crew accidently bumps the plug and cuts power to a cryogenic container in a fertility clinic. 300,000 "human beings" perish.

Fertility clinic fails to provide backup generators for its facility. Severe winter storm hits and power is out for three days. Millions of "human beings" die.

A fertility doctor evaluates ten fertilized eggs and chooses four to implant in a woman seeking to become pregnant by IVF. The embryos the doctor deems to be unviable for implantation are discarded at the request of the parents. Did someone just commit "murder"? Who?

[Mend]

39. Another potential:

doctor, realizing egg was erroneously discarded and fearing murder charges, finds a spare egg from someone else and implants it instead.....

[Canuckistanian]

59. Or uses one from the vial that says "Experimental Use Only!"

I think that's how Johnah Goldberg was conceived.

[athenap]

76. Still more fun scenarios...

All miscarriages become involuntary manslaughter.

Police required to form "menstrual examination squads" to determine if manslaughter was committed at any point in a woman's cycle.

Failure to take prenatal vitamins becomes endangering the life of a minor. Missing an ob appointment same thing.

Wow...we're really forming a culture of life here, aren't we?

[rodeodance]

42. scary scenarios--but could happen!!

[underpants]

35. Did they name it "Conner"?

You knew that was where that was going the first time you heard it now didn't you?

[VegasWolf]

37. boy here is a potential bush supreme court nominee. n/t

[rodeodance]

44. yes, keep quit and don't tell bushco!!

[leesa]

40. People this ignorant shouldn't be having kids anyway.

[rodeodance]

43. "a member of the species homo sapiens at any stage of development,"

I got this email some time ago. This bill did pass the House and

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACT: JENNY THALHEIMER, 202-628-8669 ext. 116

NOW Urges Immediate Action to Prevent Devastating "Unborn Victims of
Violence Act" from Passing in Senate

February 26, 2004

"Under the disguise of maternal and fetal protection, reproductive
freedoms are once again under attack," said NOW President Kim Gandy
responding to today's vote in favor of the Unborn Victims of Violence Act
(H.R. 1997). "This legislation is another despicable attempt to undermine
abortion rights guaranteed under Roe v. Wade."

"If members of Congress want to address the pervasive problem of violence
against pregnant women, then they need to pass increased funding for
education and for enforcement," said Gandy.

The conservative sponsors of this cynical bill are using a strategy to
redefine the Fourteenth Amendment, which guarantees equal protection of
the law to persons, not fetuses. The inventive language of H.R. 1997
covers "a member of the species homo sapiens at any stage of development,"
so that even zygotes, blastocysts or embryos are included in the
definition. This new definition would give rights to fertilized eggs,
embryos and fetuses—ultimately, setting the stage to legally reverse Roe.

Any injury inflicted on a woman, pregnant or not, should be prosecuted as
a crime against the woman. "This is a deceptive ploy that allows abortion
foes to whittle away at women's reproductive rights," Gandy remarked.

"The approach taken in this bill is deeply misguided and does nothing to
enhance protection for a pregnant woman," said Gandy. "We are encouraging
NOW members and supporters of women's rights to immediately contact their
senators with an urgent message to vote 'NO' against this disturbing piece
of legislation."


###

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACT: JENNY THALHEIMER, 202-628-8669 ext. 116

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

48. "deemed"

Oy. :eyes:

[sarcasmo]

51. Sperm will be next, ejaculation a crime off to jail you go.

[pfitz59]

52. No it won't......

Its women they're after. The fundies want women to be entirely subservient to men. These type of laws only affect women's rights. The lying, hypocritical bastards who write this stuff are cut from the same cloth as Osama!

[VegasWolf]

62. By this logic it will be illegal for women to have a period. n/t

[Ilsa]

54. IVF is not easy! It is a big deal to do and redo.

I would caution anyone not to jump to conclusions that re-doing this procedure is no big deal. What if the woman cannot ovulate any more because of her age? What if they did the IVF so she could have children after having cancer? Couples have been torn apart over the stress of trying to have a baby and start a family. Redoing this this isn't that easy, and maybe it's dangerous for her to try again.

But ITA that their situation has been hijacked for political reasons. This is not a wrongful death.

[mordarlar]

55. While this to me is INCREDIBLY ridiculous on it's surface,i wonder....

what the personal circumstances are. I know a couple, they froze their sperm and eggs prior to each of them losing these things to cancer in their teens. It was bonding over this experience that led them fall in love. At one point the woman believed that the clinic had wrongly disposed of her new husbands sperm. She was very upset over it. This would have eliminated the option of them having their child because of a mistake on the part of another. They were 22.

If the circumstances where something like this where the embryo could not be replaced because of someone's negligence i can see some compensation. I do think the judges words are concerning though.

It is not a wrongful death but i believe a property issue. Just my opinion.

[Adrian Luca]

57. The "parents" are nuts

Do they even know how many cute widdle blastocysts are destroyed in the process of producing the ones the clinic actually froze for them?

On the bright side, I think my miniature blastocyst coffin business is really gonna kick off now.

[fugue]

60. Women have been paying for this mindset for years

If it weren't for this mindset, my mother would have been allowed to have an abortion, I wouldn't be here. And she wouldn't have suffered permanent back and leg damage or psychologically tortured me for my entire childhood.

If it weren't for this mindset, I would've been allowed a hysterectomy on insurance years ago. I've had terrible dysmenorrhea since age eleven. The problem, apparently, is an exceptionally tight cervix; in order to expel the menses, I have to go into the early stages of labor. The solution used by the women in my family (among whom this problem occures 100% of the time and has for at least three generations): have a baby. But I passionately dislike children (I'm autistic, and children are bearers of noise, chaos, and abuse). "Have one anyway," my mother and her mother urged. I told them that was the most morally reprehensible reason for having a child that I had ever heard. (Give me a break; I was fifteen and hadn't heard of selling babies.) They just stared at me.

The birth-control pills bring my period to a complete stop; I don't have one during the time allotted for it in the pill cycle, so I have to go off entirely periodically. And then readjust again; that first month is hell (it's essentially a month-long period).

But no, not even a woman going on forty, no more interested in human children than she ever was but who nonetheless has gone into the early stages of labor over 300 times, and deprived of at least one day (and usually more) of her life whenever she has a period (hence, more than a year and nearly two of my life has been spent coping with the agony) is allowed to get a medical hysterectomy. Never mind that most of those lost days are to writhing in pain rather than zonked out on pain killers. I've developed a very high tolerance for them. I can't use Tylenol at all; twelve or fifteen of them do nothing. Last July, in a fit of utter desperation, I took some codiene-laced ibuprofen left over from a gallbladder attack. Did not budge the pain, and I'd already had four ibuprofen liquigels.

"Your uterus is normal," they tell me after every ultrasound. "Insurance only pays for a hysterectomy when the uterus is abnormal."

Everyone who has ever told me that should have to feel any pain I ever suffer from my uterus. And all the fear I feel (like right now, this very second) when the pain is low and I am wondering whether it's gonna explode again. . . .

[NYC]

64. "a pre-embryo is a 'human being"

When will a thought be considered a human being? When will an intent be considered a human being?

[mulethree]

66. AP story on this - more info - Couple May Sue Over Discarded Embryo

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=7&u=/ap/20050205/ap_on_he_me/frozen_embryo_lawsuit
The suit was filed by Alison Miller and Todd Parrish, who stored nine embryos in January 2000 at the Center for Human Reproduction in Chicago. Their doctor said one embryo looked particularly promising, but the Chicago couple were told six months later the embryos had been accidentally discarded.

In his ruling, Lawrence relied on the state's Wrongful Death Act, which allows lawsuits to be filed if unborn fetuses are killed in an accident or assault. "The state of gestation or development of a human being" does not preclude taking legal action, the act says.
-
While the ruling likely is too narrow to affect abortion law, it increases legal risks for fertility clinics, said John Mayoue, a family attorney in Atlanta and specialist on in-vitro law
-
"We are considering embryos to be property for certain purposes and life for others, and that's the incongruity," he said.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=7&u=/ap/20050205/ap_on_he_me/frozen_embryo_lawsuit

[Kimber Scott]

67. Seems they could sue for having had property destroyed, not a child

killed. This is wacky. To compare it to having a child killed, is to belittle the value of a child. How do they even know the implant would have taken? Ridiculous.

[w4rma]

72. This ruling is pure thoughtless bullcrap. (nt)

[sakabatou]

75. A blastocysts deemed human?

It's a friggin' collection of cells! Nothing more! Jeez...

[RPM]

77. and so it begins...

f*** the fundegelicals

[SoCalDem]

80. Here's a pic of the "little dickens"

What were they planning on naming their little blastocyst?? Tiffany...Jason...Brittney...

A "potential" human is NOT a person... Right up until the time of birth, things can (and DO) go wrong..

This couple chose to inject HUMAN frailties into the conception process, and by doing so, the "accepted" the fact that things "could go wrong"..

Unless someone at the clinic said " Hey, let's mess with these folks and throw their embryos away", there is ALWAYS the possibility that something could happen.

The clinic should actually be commended for "fessing up".. they could have just "substituted" another embryo incorrectly and told them "it didn't take"...

In past times this couple would have just been a "childless" couple and that woould be the END of it. They obviously have the money and insurance to TRY to become parents.. They should be adult enough to accept that sometimes things just happen.. that's why it's called "accidentally"..

[Gin]

81. Maybe this story was a plan......as stated in an earlier reply....and

the people who threw the little darlins away...were working in conjunction with the clinic owner... who was working in conjunction with bushco.....who was working in conjunction with the rethuglican judge...to push their ridiculous agenda of making embryos classified as human beings. Maybe the parents were in on it too.

After the last 4 years, I don't trust a thing they say or do, and I think conspiracy about each and every action.

This case is so ridiculous that it has to be a plot.

[bling bling]

83. It will be interesting to how this ends up.

The implications could be huge.

[Misunderestimator]

84. LMAO... A perfect marriage... Fundie Idiocy and Frivolous Lawsuits

Had to happen eventually.

[AngryAmish]

85. I know some of the people involved in this case.

Judge Lawrence is a good man, a good judge and Democrat (not too many Repub officeholders in Cook County).

The Plaintiff's attorney is a lifelong Democrat. Not some sort of fundy plant. I don't know the Plaintiffs so I have no idea about them.

The real problem is IL law in this case. This case would most likely be a contract case - ie I paid you to store these things, and you threw them out. However, the measure of damages in a contract case does not consider non-economic damages like loss of society. Wrongful death does.

Please also remember that this a motion to dismiss the case. The Clinic can still try to make the case go away through summary judgment or at trial. This has no precidential value at this point. It only will if the case is appealed.