Inmate's Rising I.Q. Score Could Mean His Death

[truthpusher]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/06/national/06atkins.html

Inmate's Rising I.Q. Score Could Mean His Death
By ADAM LIPTAK


Mr. Atkins, in court in February 1998, was sentenced to death.

Published: February 6, 2005

ORKTOWN, Va., Feb. 3 - Three years ago, in the case of a Virginia man named Daryl R. Atkins, the United States Supreme Court ruled that it was unconstitutional to execute the mentally retarded. But Mr. Atkins's recent test scores could eliminate him from that group.

His scores have shot up, a defense expert said, thanks to the mental workout his participation in years of litigation gave him.

The Supreme Court, which did not decide whether Mr. Atkins was retarded, noted that he scored 59 on an I.Q. test in 1998. The cutoff for retardation in Virginia is 70.

A defense expert who retested Mr. Atkins last year found that his I.Q. was 74. In court here on Thursday, prosecutors said their expert's latest test yielded 76.

complete story:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/06/national/06atkins.html

[merwin]

1. Can't you just pretend?

[DIKB]

2. The sheer sadism

made me laugh. There should be another judge rather than an IQ test. What about autism ? These people are EXTREMELY intelligent, yet mentally . . .

[uppityperson]

6. You have to laugh or else you cry.

For those who have accuse dme of being unfeeling, this is why I laugh.

[VegasWolf]

3. How can this be, shouldn't his IQ at the time of the crime be the issue?n/

[alarcojon]

37. Absof'inglutely!

This is really, REALLY f'd up.

on edit: If a ten year old commits a crime, we wouldn't sentence him as an adult, even though if we waited a few years, his IQ and moral reasoning skills would increase.

[ultraist]

4. 74 sounds close enough to retarded to me!!! Jeeez.

Retest him, he probably come out below 70. That is REALLY LOW functioning.

[Demeter]

35. Sounds Like He's Smarter Than Bush!

So how about a trade? Bush on Death Row....

[Gyre]

5. Consciousness sucks!

Ask any republican. :evilgrin:

Gyre

[htuttle]

7. 'Coupla hours in front of the teevee, and he'll be back to normal

Maybe even down to 60.

[98geoduck]

8. Real Retards support the Death Penalty. Just a Fact!

[fshrink]

9. 74-76 is borderline

even with the interval of confidence. Problem is that 59 appears unlikely as a valid score in the light of 2 successive scores above 70, particularly since cognitive abilities do not improve that dramatically after adolescence. On the other hand, it is true that IQ tests, or at least the most frequently used (WAIS) largely rests on verbal abilities. There's also a performance IQ, but unless the latter is really low, the Full Scale score will be enhanced by better verbal skills (e.g. Vocabulary, Similarities, Comprehension). I don't know the specifics (e.g. is there a significant difference between the verbal and the performance scales?), but it would sound logical to measure the guy's "true" level through the performance scale, which is less likely to change over-time at his age. People exaggerate so much the meaning of a test... A number tells all...
As to borderline IQs killing people... That's another story. Or is it?

[MidwestTransplant]

13. What about the fact that he has taken a number of tests

could practice have improved the results?

[fshrink]

16. Yes. There is a pratice effect too.

Particularly when two administrations are pretty close to one another.

[kypper]

36. 100 is borderline...

Let alone 70...

[ben_packard]

40. Isn't 100 average?

I thought that was the point?

[fshrink]

43. Yes. 100 is Average (90-110).

Borderline means, "borderline between mental retardation (< 70) and below average (70-90)".

[VegasWolf]

47. So, above aberage is only 111? n/t

[kypper]

55. From personal experience...

100 is still borderline.

[sandnsea]

10. Look at the crime

I don't know his history, but this is a robbery/shooting. I remember when people started pushing for the death penalty again. It was specifically for truly heinous crimes. It was around the time that little girl in CA had her arms chopped off and was left for dead. It was never supposed to be used to execute 20 year old men who made tragic mistakes. I suspect if he weren't black, he'd have never been sentenced to death in the first place.

[Calico Jack Rackham]

12. This is BS. He isn't being executed because of

his skin. I do acknowledge that the death penalty has been disproportionatly applied to minorities in the US but not in this case.

Saying that Daryl Atkins was an unfortunate 20 year old who made a tragic mistake is like saying Charles Manson was a budding obstetrician who was just practicing a C-Section.

Atkins and his partner Bill Jones carjacked and abducted Eric Nesbitt, robbed him had him go to an ATM to pull out more money and then drove him to a remote location and murdered him(these animals shot him eight times in cold blood).

Using the "retarded" defense is also the height of BS. I have a cousin who is as retarded as Mr. Atkins(60IQ) and he knows that robbing and murdering people is wrong. Perhaps Atkins isn't retarded he is just really, really dumb.

[Evergreen Emerald]

15. I agree Calico Jack n/t

[sandnsea]

17. People are animals

Yes. Of course. How could I be so foolish as to think people are humans who are capable of change. Especially 20 year olds. Silly me.

:eyes:

You're thinking process is the reason we have a culture of death in this country and the highest murder rates in the world. It's why we march off to war so easily. It's why we spend $400 billion on weapons when people don't have enough food, medicine or housing.

This guy would not be sitting on death row if he were white. Not unless he had a very long criminal history that I'm not aware of, which I already stated. Which seems unlikley or he would have been in jail anyway. White men just don't get executed for one time shootings.

[Calico Jack Rackham]

21. Yes, Some

people are animals.

Daryl Atkins was a repeat offender a recidivist who does not fit your description of the poor innocent "I made a boo boo" 20 year old(He was 18 when he visciously murdered Eric Nesbitt).

Here is part of your poor misunderstood Mr. Atkins's rap sheet:

At age 13, he was convicted of breaking-and-entering and petty larceny, and in eighth grade he started abusing drugs. At age 17, he was convicted of two counts of grand larceny. Several months before Nesbitt's murder, Atkins participated in two armed robberies; during one of these, he hit the victim on the head with a bottle. Two weeks before the murder, Atkins attacked a woman and shot her in the stomach.

Nice guy. It must be because he is mentally disabled he commits violent crimes. :eyes:

I previously stated that the Death Penalty is applied disproportionatly to minorities and there should be a moratorium on it again; however, you must be able to step away from your personal agenda and look at each case individually. Your misguided statement regarding race shows how disconnected with the facts of the case as well as the convicts prior history. Once again, he is not on Death Row because he is Black. To say a white man would of "gotten away with it" further emphasizes my point.

[sandnsea]

23. Thank you

That is the exact reason I mentioned his record, because I didn't know what it was. On the face of it, a white mentally retarded person committing one murder wouldn't get the death penalty. I would hope you could at least admit that much is true. That was the basis of my statement.

I also do not think anybody commits crimes because they are mentally retarded. That would be insulting to all of the loving and giving mentally retarded people in the world. But I also don't think mentally retarded people are fully capable of comprehending the complexities in the law and sometimes that's important.

Regardless of all of that, people are not animals. Charlie Manson is not an animal. Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, not animals. It actually cheapens the value of life when we reduce anybody to such levels. When you or I or society as a whole degrades humans in that way, we make it acceptable for people to do that at any time or for any purpose. For minorities, gays, muslims, communists, anybody. It is a downward spiral.

We've sunk so low we are executing teen-agers. We've only recently made the exception for the mentally retarded. We have little concern for the mentally ill. We have the President debating torture. We have people saying nuke the middle east. We have our young people committing the atrocitites at Abu Ghraib

Because we don't value life and it's not because of abortion. It's because of the death penalty. And our belief that we are superior enough to not only judge people, but to strip away their humanity. The final condemnation that was never to be left to man to decide.

[Calico Jack Rackham]

24. Unless you can provide specific case law

to substantiate your statement than it is false on its face value

On the face of it, a white mentally retarded person committing one murder wouldn't get the death penalty. I would hope you could at least admit that much is true. That was the basis of my statement.


I also do not think anybody commits crimes because they are mentally retarded. That would be insulting to all of the loving and giving mentally retarded people in the world. But I also don't think mentally retarded people are fully capable of comprehending the complexities in the law and sometimes that's important.

This is why I said that the facts case must be viewed independently on an individual basis.


Regardless of all of that, people are not animals. Charlie Manson is not an animal. Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, not animals. It actually cheapens the value of life when we reduce anybody to such levels. When you or I or society as a whole degrades humans in that way, we make it acceptable for people to do that at any time or for any purpose. For minorities, gays, muslims, communists, anybody. It is a downward spiral.

This is your view. While I respect it I must respectfully disagree with you. Those "individuals" that you mentioned, would not hesitate to treat you or I as inanimate objects devoid of any value besides for therir own twisted pleasure. IMHO the world would be much better served without the presence of these beings. i guess the fact that two of the three are no longer with us is a good start.

As I said before look at the individual subject. You are making broad generalizations comprising a vast spectrum of social groups.


We've sunk so low we are executing teen-agers. We've only recently made the exception for the mentally retarded. We have little concern for the mentally ill. We have the President debating torture. We have people saying nuke the middle east. We have our young people committing the atrocitites at Abu Ghraib

In todays legal system we do not execute teen-agers. This is one of the myths perpetrated by the Anti-CP crowd; however, it is flat out false.
As far as torture, and Abu Gharaib. These are criminal acts perpetrated by vile people with a twisted sense of humanity. They deserve the punishment they get.

Because we don't value life and it's not because of abortion. It's because of the death penalty. And our belief that we are superior enough to not only judge people, but to strip away their humanity. The final condemnation that was never to be left to man to decide.

The Pro-Life crowd would differ with you there. Who left man(actually woman) with the right to decide the final condemnation of a fetus, baby, etc.?

Personally I believe in accountability. A woman has a right to decide on what happens with her body; however, in that same breath society also has a right to hold muderers accountable for there actions.

[sandnsea]

27. Case law?

Case law where it's legal to execute a black and not a white man? :shrug: Is that what you mean? That's a phony argument and you know it.

As to your views on human beings, they're disgusting. That you would flat out deny that we sentence teen-agers to death is just beyond the pale. What purpose does it serve to rationalize all of this behavior? Why is it so critically important to you that we execute people instead of putting them in prison for life? How is that not holding people accountable? I just don't understand why people would prefer to live in a world that enjoys vengeance and dehumanization the way death penalty people do. It is the exact opposite of civil, the opposite of Christian, the opposite of sanity even because it doesn't even serve to stop murders anyway. It just makes no sense at all.

Women are not condemning fetuses. They are not having abortions because little globs of cells are evil. Many religions don't even believe the little globs of cells are spiritual life. It is not the same thing as condemning birthed humans as unworthy of living because of sin. People just don't have that right and the process of taking that right creates an ugliness in people because it always takes ugly feelings in order to kill.

[Calico Jack Rackham]

28. Your whole argument is phony.

We are discussing this specific case. You are saying Atkins was condemned because of his color, I say it is because of his actions.


As to your views on human beings, they're disgusting.

Thats you opinion, I believe my view is a realistic approach.

That you would flat out deny that we sentence teen-agers to death is just beyond the pale.

Don't flip the script in the middle of filming my friend. You said we EXECUTE teens. I simply disputed that myth. The fact that teens are sentenced to death was never brought up nor disputed.

What purpose does it serve to rationalize all of this behavior? Why is it so critically important to you that we execute people instead of putting them in prison for life? How is that not holding people accountable? I just don't understand why people would prefer to live in a world that enjoys vengeance and dehumanization the way death penalty people do. It is the exact opposite of civil, the opposite of Christian, the opposite of sanity even because it doesn't even serve to stop murders anyway. It just makes no sense at all

belive it or not I totally agree with you; however, I still am under the belief that morality is relative. Some people do not deserve to live. They forfeit all rights to life as a consequence of their heinous acts. Therin lies the societal hypocracy(of which I am a part of) we must suspend our moral convictions from time to time in order to execute duties for the security of the society.

Women are not condemning fetuses. They are not having abortions because little globs of cells are evil. Many religions don't even believe the little globs of cells are spiritual life. It is not the same thing as condemning birthed humans as unworthy of living because of sin. People just don't have that right and the process of taking that right creates an ugliness in people because it always takes ugly feelings in order to kill.


Now my point is brought to fruition. You suspend your morality in order to exempt abortion. You bring up Christianity to defend your position on CP yet you drop that shield at the doorstep of abortion and trivialize the existance of life because it does notfit your definition of life. In other words you have now decided who/what gets to live. Some Pro-choice wing nut may take exception to that.

Either way it only serves to reinforce the fact that you, I, all of us are part of the same moral hypocracy.

[sandnsea]

30. People are just weird

You posted additional information on this case and I thanked you for it. I acknowledged that I didn't know his record in my very first post. I went on to say he did not commit crimes because he was mentally retarded. After learning of his criminal history, I never said he was given this sentence because he was black.

I made a separate point that a white mentally retarded man who had committed one crime wouldn't be executed and that was the point regarding the death penalty. And it's still true, even though it doesn't apply to this case. That's all. I don't know why you'd bother to say you know sentencing is biased and then turn around and deny it.

Pretending that sentencing a 16 year old to death row isn't executing him because of the time constraints in our judicial system is just flat bullshit. We would if the death penalty crowd had their way.

I don't even know what to say to somebody who believes the death penalty is harmful to society and doesn't deter murder, but wants to keep it anyway. I must say, that's a new one.

And on abortion, the star came out, the shephard and wise men came, at Christ's birth. We celebrate his birth, not his conception. We don't mourn the passing of menses every month, on the chance a fertilized egg is in it. I honestly do not believe cells are sacred life. There are plenty of religious scholars, even Catholics, who agree with me. So, no, it isn't suspending morality at all.

Besides, a true culture of life mentality wouldn't create a society that was so dog eat dog that people couldn't function in it causing them to be unable to welcome children into the world.

[Calico Jack Rackham]

32. Youu must back that up sandnsea

all you are doing right now is making opinionated statements devoid of any factual basis. We both know that the death penalty is applied disproportionatly to Blacks in America; however, you are saying that a mentally retarded white man who commits one murder will not get the DP but a black one will. Now I simply ask you to back this up with case law.
In many many cases sentencing is biased; however, you are trying to assert that in every case regarding similar circumstances that the White guy would get life and the Black guy would get death. This is simply not the case; therefore, my acknowledgement of bias in sentencing is not contradictary you are making broad generalizations while I am talking about specifics.

Pretending that sentencing a 16 year old to death row isn't executing him because of the time constraints in our judicial system is just flat bullshit. We would if the death penalty crowd had their way.

Please list the number of inmates on death row or inmates who have been executed in the past 25 years who were under 18 at the time of their sentencing.

I don't even know what to say to somebody who believes the death penalty is harmful to society and doesn't deter murder, but wants to keep it anyway. I must say, that's a new one.

All people should be held accountable for their actions.


And on abortion, the star came out, the shephard and wise men came, at Christ's birth. We celebrate his birth, not his conception. We don't mourn the passing of menses every month, on the chance a fertilized egg is in it. I honestly do not believe cells are sacred life. There are plenty of religious scholars, even Catholics, who agree with me. So, no, it isn't suspending morality at all.

Sure it is. You just CHOOSE to believe at what point life begins. Oh and BTW most Christian religions DO celebrate Jesus' conception. Ever hear of a little event called the Annunciation(Evangelismos)? Major religious day, especially in the Eastern Orthodox tradition.

Once again your beliefs are not others the same convictions which sway you to believe that we have no right to end life(no matter what stage it is in) unless it just a bunch of cells sways others to believe that society has a say in the fate of people who violates its mores.

Besides, a true culture of life mentality wouldn't create a society that was so dog eat dog that people couldn't function in it causing them to be unable to welcome children into the world.

Hell than what are you complaining about? What do the Bundy's Manson's and Dahmer's of the world have to offer us?

May I suggest that you pickup a book called Practical Homicide Investigation. Perhaps viewing the handiwork of some of these butchers will soften your opinion on the subject.

[sandnsea]

34. Like I said, weird

Faith is all about choice, everybody chooses their faith. Stating an opinion about abortion is never anything but an opinion based on choice.

"We both know that the death penalty is applied disproportionatly to Blacks in America"

If you know it, why are you arguing about it?

22 people have been executed for juvenile crimes since 1973. 226 were sentenced to death, ages 15 - 17. Most have been reversed or commuted, but 78 remain on death row. 45% were black, 20% latino, 35% white. Most of them were mentally retarded and mentally ill, as well as being raised by abusive parents. In a dog eat dog society that prides itself in its condemnation and dehumanization of people and tossing aside those at the bottom of the barrel. A society that worships cells but refuses to provide respectful care for those at real risk, the mentally ill and retarded. Then wonders why this crazy-making backfires with murder and mayhem. It isn't ABOUT Dahmer and Manson, it's about YOU. Why do YOU lust after vengeance and killing? YOU. Why is killing YOUR answer? Why is nothing less than KILLING the only acceptable method of dealing with murderers? Why are YOU a KILLER?

That's the goddamned question for this country to face. And you've consistently refused to answer it.

[Calico Jack Rackham]

42. In this case

Faith is all about choice, everybody chooses their faith. Stating an opinion about abortion is never anything but an opinion based on choice.

Agreed, but you are the one using religion to defend your position on Capital punishment and poo pooing abortion using the same logic. I'm simply playing Devil's Advocate

"We both know that the death penalty is applied disproportionatly to Blacks in America"

If you know it, why are you arguing about it?

I'm arguing the statement that you made which said if a retarded white man committed this crime he would not recieve the DP. Your own data refutes this false claim.


22 people have been executed for juvenile crimes since 1973. 226 were sentenced to death, ages 15 - 17. Most have been reversed or commuted, but 78 remain on death row. 45% were black, 20% latino, 35% white. Most of them were mentally retarded and mentally ill, as well as being raised by abusive parents.

Link please. A ten percent difference between black and white does not do much to help your claim either.

In a dog eat dog society that prides itself in its condemnation and dehumanization of people and tossing aside those at the bottom of the barrel. A society that worships cells but refuses to provide respectful care for those at real risk, the mentally ill and retarded. Then wonders why this crazy-making backfires with murder and mayhem. It isn't ABOUT Dahmer and Manson, it's about YOU. Why do YOU lust after vengeance and killing? YOU. Why is killing YOUR answer? Why is nothing less than KILLING the only acceptable method of dealing with murderers? Why are YOU a KILLER?

I'm the KILLER because not only do I have the sense to realize that some "humans" would better serve society by being culled from the herd, as well as being able to seperate my OWN moral convictions in order to ensure that the vast majority of society can remain safe. I don't lust after vengeance and killing I just see it as a neccessary evil and I have the abilty to suspend my own moral code to see it through.

You are a hypocrite and refuse to admit it, while I embrace it. You refuse to see a fetus as a human and categorically disregard it as a bunch of cells while championing the poor downtrodden dregs of society who would just as soon slit your throat as look at you.

I see those cells as life, worthy of being allowed to be birthed yet I suspend my morality in regards to abortion because I believe that the choice is a womans to make and also because society is better served without having millions more unwanted children roaming the earth. In the same breath I suspend my morality in regards to CP because I believe society is better served without having a bunch of butchering pigs consuming the same oxygen as my children(remember case by case not broad generalization).

I am more honest than most of my other fellow Liberals and way more honest than the Right Wing Nuts because not only do I admit my hypocracy but I also am consistant in my beliefs. Perhaps its your turn to step up to the plate.

[sandnsea]

44. Last post

I've already stated I do not beleive cells are sacred life. I don't believe sperm is sacred, I don't believe eggs are sacred, I don't believe them joining instantaneously makes them sacred. They're cells. Nothing hypocritical about it at all. It's common sense. Just because you worship them doesn't mean I have to.

75-80% of the population is white. 35% of death row juveniles are white. That's the appropriate math. And I'll be goddamned if I go find the link again because you're too lazy to do it yourself. Do you think I just made the shit up?

I am not defending the dregs of society. I have said repeatedly that the death penalty isn't about defending them. It's about the sick sons a bitches like you who have the need to kill. YOU. I know they're mentally fucked up and need to be kept out of society forever. I can keep those bastards away from my children easily.

YOU. I don't know what the hell your mental malfunction is that makes you desire killing so much. You admit it's disproportionately applied to minorities. You admit it isn't a deterrant. You admit it serves absolutely no purpose. But you still want to KILL KILL KILL. YOU, you're allowed to roam free with your kill 'em all attitude and warp the minds of more kids. "culled from the herd" Yeah, that's so spiritual. That this passes for Christiantiy or any sort of spirituality sickens me.

[Calico Jack Rackham]

45. Never mind... You have

no desire to seriously debate this issue so I'll desist because all your doing now is spewing bullshit and throwing out Ad Hominums.

For future reference before you try to portray yourself as some kind of peace loving save the criminals persona try not to seethe with so much venom and try to actually READ the other persons posts. You'll come off looking like less of a jag off.

[sandnsea]

46. You can't read

I never "tried to portray myself as some kind of peace loving save the criminals persona". I consistently said the death penalty is not about THEM, it's about the supposedly sane segment of society that has a lust for killing. Which you consistently avoided discussing so don't talk to me about a serious debate. You have absolutely no argument, refuse to acknowledge the facts I gave you after you said they didn't exist, and yet continue to want to kill. In any sane world, that would make you the jag off.

[Calico Jack Rackham]

48. You continued to dance around every single point I made

without addressing the issue. When I asked you for a link to your "facts" you insinuated I was lazy and should look it up myself(I guess cutting and pasting a link was too much work for you).

So seeing that this has devolved into a pissing contest I'll quit. Maybe some other time you'll feel up to really debating the issue, instead of taking a play out of the right-wing playbook and start throwing out ad-homs when you cannot support your argument.

[sandnsea]

54. killing is like a drug

It must be. It's amazing the lengths people will go to insure this society is able to do it.

[LanternWaste]

56. Keep smilin'!

After reading the back and forth between you and your admirer, I kinda lean toward your camp on this one. Without being in the jury or having read the transcript, it's a bit difficult for me to jump on the "hang the bastard up!" side of the room.

Listening to the man-on-the-street filibusters about who needs to die, how long it should take and how painful it should be both amazes me and depresses me.

I'm the first to admit that I'm a Christian, and the first to admit that I'd looove to live in a Christian society (there ain't no such animal, though-- never has been , never will) and now, I'm the first to admit that a culture which glorifies death in the movies, in music and in video-games, trickles that fascination down towards the people is but a few steps removed from the coliseums of Roman lore.

But I'm gonna go you one further...

I've got no problem with anyone defending the dregs of society. The fact that our dregs *are* defended gives me hope. And, writ small- the fact that you vehemently defend a man no one on this board knows the full details of, illustrates (to me) the kind of compassion and kindness that brought me firmly into the Democratic camp so many years ago.

Anyway, keep smilin'! :)

[sandnsea]

57. Thank you

What a pleasant surpise!

The glorification of killing and violence in this country saddens me most and either the death penalty comes from it or contributes to it, or both. I know what you mean about Rome too. I was watching a bit of Troy the other day and it's the same thing. There they are with their businesses and homes and roads and wheeled vehicles, undoubtedly thinking they're sophisticated and cultured. But how far have we progressed really? We've got indoor plumbing, electricity and motorized vehicles. Wohoo! Society has not progressed at all.

In the effort of fighting against the death penalty, I lean towards the argument of the harm it causes society itself. It hurts US, as a people, and that's the main reason it needs to go.

To treat the Dahmer's and Bundy's humanely, even while keeping them separate from society, is a whole other battle to fight. Again, it's about US as a people. We are only as good as the way we treat the least of us. Jesus said to love your enemies because how hard is it to love your friends. True spiritualism comes from a faith that finds a way to love the unloveable, not condemn and dehumanize them. When we do that, we change our society. Why wouldn't people want to live without that vengeance in their heart? It doesn't seem complicated to me, I don't know why people fight it so much. You can keep these people out of society without treating them like human garbage.

Not that I'm all sweetness and roses myself! lol.

[Sterling]

33. All people are animals.

You do know that right? Mybe you are refering to a specific animal, like bears or tigers or something?

[bloom]

20. What I've heard is that the death penalty

is disproportionately applied based on the color of the victims skin.


I doubt this has changed.

[karlrschneider]

11. Welcome to Murika...become intelligent & die.

:grr:

[VegasWolf]

14. 74 is only 6 points away from georgie. n/t

[FuzzySlippers]

18. Which direction?

Is *'s IQ 68? Surely you don't credit him with 80?

[Conservativesux]

31. Nice! LOL!

[leesa]

19. Only in America...sheesh!

[VegasWolf]

22. Death for intelligent people!!! Only in the fundie driven Murika!n/t

[JohnLocke]

25. Wow.

The death penalty in this country is just a sad, cruel, sick joke. To everyone: convicts, victims, their families. This nation really needs to reexamine capital punishment.

[Disturbed]

26. Killing people is good.

Killing people is fun. Welcome to Amerika.

[buddysmellgood]

29. Yes! I agree! We have many fun and exciting ways to kill people here!

[Canuckistanian]

38. Quick! Start watching FOX news!

There's no time to waste!

[Judi Lynn]

39. That'll do it! n/t

[RedCappedBandit]

41. Not to mention..

that an IQ is not an accurate way to determine if somebody is mentally retarded..
It is a test, like any other test, and the results can be skewed for more reasons than simply being unintelligent.

[Moderator]

49. kick

[emad]

50. The killer who could be condemned by rising IQ

Telegraph
By Tom Leonard in New York
(Filed: 07/02/2005)

A man who was sentenced to death for murdering an airman is to go on trial again, this time to decide whether he is now intelligent enough to be executed.

Three years ago Daryl Atkins, 27, from Virginia, was rescued from death row by a supreme court ruling that capital punishment on retarded criminals was unconstitutional. But the prosecution lawyers argue that his IQ has risen sharply since.

In a further bizarre twist, his lawyers say he should not be executed because the reason he is no longer regarded as retarded under state law is the mental stimulation he has received from the case itself.

A jury will have to consider whether his IQ is less than 70, the level below which Virginia recognises someone as retarded, or 70 or above, qualifying him for death by lethal injection.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/02/07/wexec07.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/02/07/ixworld.html

[slackmaster]

51. He needs to start acting dumb

:dunce:

[rkc3]

53. That might get him elected as POTUS, but won't keep him out of the

chair.

[bobbobbins]

52. even if he did get smarter, which doesn't seem bloody likely

at the time of the murder, he was stupid...so it shouldn't matter if hes smart now.

[EST]

58. It is amazing how much smarter anyone can get when facing

threat to survival! I'm wondering if a piece of the problem is based on whether (and when) one considers humanity in terms of a "herd," or mob, or as individuals."Culling the herd" seems easier than picking out you, and you, and you to die because you don't measure up.
Mostly, I think, people are animals with a drive that primarily focuses on our own (individual) needs, and we start demonstrating "peopleness" over "animalness" when we begin perceiving the needs of others as important to us. My own feelings as re: the death penalty can vary depending on my own perception of the criminal's perception of me, although an awareness of the coarseness and generally bad karma associated with the legality of capital punishment keeps me pretty firmly in the anti camp.
It appears that states which commonly resort to CP actually have the highest rates of crimes for which the DP is imposed, yet the apparent cause-effect relationship is rarely examined by those who have the power to effect changes.
(tsk, tsk)