Woman Demoted for Iraq Mud-Wrestling Party

[maxrandb]

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-soldier-mud-wrestling.story

My God! What is wrong with America! It's funny that I've not seen any "fundies" with their panties in a wad about this incident, but then again, it does not involve a "funny guy in a yellow sponge suit". I guess they were just blowing off steam.

RALEIGH, N.C. -- Military officials have demoted a female member of a National Guard military police unit for indecent exposure after a mud-wrestling party at the Camp Bucca detention center in Iraq.

The party occurred Oct. 30, as the 160th Military Police Battalion, an Army Reserve Unit from Tallahassee, Fla., prepared to turn over its duties to the Asheville-based 105th Military Police Battalion, Johnson said.

In the course of the transfer of duties, "some individuals in their exuberance decided to put together a mud-wrestling thing," Johnson said Sunday by telephone. "There were females involved, and some members of the 105th also became involved, one female soldier in particular."

Waldrop said she was proud of her daughter for joining the National Guard. "But I hate that this happened, and so does she," she said. The party "just got way out of hand, and before you know it, pictures were taken, and she didn't have time to react.

"My mom and I have both had talks with her that she's supposed to be an example for her country."

[merwin]

1. Did the others get demoted as well? Or just the ONE woman?

[demnan]

Yeah that was my question too

why not the people who organized the party? This girl was probably just one soul who couldn't handle liquor well and got rambunctious.

[saigon68]

15. The PHOTOS

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/story/278564p-238671c.html

"Just because a few individuals did not behave honorably that is not reason to lose faith in the soldiers at Camp Bucca."
So said the wife of the FDNY 9/11 hero for whom the U.S. Army prison in Iraq is named after seeing photos in yesterday's Daily News of a wild, mud-wrestling sexcapade there last October.

Eve Bucca told the News her family has "complete confidence" in the soldiers at the camp - named in honor of her husband, Fire Marshal Ronald Bucca, an Army reservist who was killed at the World Trade Center.

The News reported the debauchery at Camp Bucca after receiving more than 30 photos of female G.I.s stripped to their undies and cavorting in a mud-filled pool as their male comrades in arms cheered them on.

[maxrandb]

17. Is That A Sponge Bob Kiddie Pool?

I knew somehow "He" was behind all this!!!

Stupid little gay yellow sponge. <dripping sarcasm off>

[cascadiance]

20. Probably because her photo was the most prominent in earlier story...

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/278075p-238272c.html

[despairing optimist]

49. I thought it was an Army of One

What happened?

[maxrandb]

6. That is an excellent question

What about the supervisors, or leaders. We in the Navy have a pretty standard rule, that if you are the CO of a ship and something goes wrong, YOU ARE HELD ACCOUNTABLE!

We should be asking what happened to the people (ie CO, Division Officer and NCO's) responsible for "good order and discipline" in this command? Obviously, the leadership was absent.

Then again, since we don't hold the Command in Chief accountable, maybe that standard is "trickling" down to the troops! Got to love that "trickle down" theory, don't you?

[paineinthearse]

16. Did you read the entire article? n/t

[maxrandb]

18. Yes! Do You Mean This Part where she is being singled out?

Just about says it all as far as I'm concerned. If I were the CO, some heads would roll all the way down, and I would expect that my career would be over. But then again, I was always brought up to be accountable for my actions, and the Navy has taught me that I am pretty much responsible for the actions of those that work for me. I guess that kind of "character" must be what "Red Amurika" thinks we can do without.

Waldrop said her daughter is devastated by the events.

"It was just a thing where she was coerced by a bunch of people, and with all the excitement, she lost her sanity for a moment and that's all it took," she said.

"It seems like they're just singling her out," Waldrop said. "She's the one getting all the publicity and punishment, and that's not right."

[maxrandb]

19. Or was it the part

Where 4 or 5 other members received counselling? Oh yeah, that hurts! Talk to me about how bad it is, then I'll promise to do better.

[paineinthearse]

23. The part where it describes she is the only one to have ...

exposed her breasts. That was the charge. No others were charged becasue no others exposed themselves.

[maxrandb]

25. I Don't Agree with you

granted, she may have been the only one to expose her breasts, but you cannot ignore the blatantly "titilating" nature of woman wrestling in their underwear.

My point is that, somewhere along the line, the Chain of Command failed miserably. Someone, anyone with half a brain, could have seen that this could turn out badly. Someone, anyone, could have raised their hand and said; "Uh, sir this is probably not a good idea"!

Where was the leadership in this case?

I am in the military. If my Sailors decided, "hey, let's have half naked woman's mud-wrestling", I would either put a stop to it, or I had better understand that when it hits CNN, the participants are not the only ones that are going to get their knees chopped off.

The entire leadership for this division is responsible for this sophmoric display of "moral values". Someone other than the girl who flashed her boobs needs to get in some serious trouble.

Don't you agree?

[DistantWind88]

26. You are right.

In any active duty unit, the company, squadron, or whatever unit commander would be fired for this. Period. End of story.

[paineinthearse]

46. Then we agree

She is guilty of "lewd and lacivious behavior, AND the chain of command failed.

[G_j]

27. every person who cheered her on should share equal responsibility. eom

[shamalama]

53. THANK YOU

Thank you for finally saying what should have been said at first. There would have been no incident had there been no hecklers.

[izzie]

2. Maybe she was not busty enough?

Oh well I really can not help my self. I have not stopped laughing since I first read this this morning. I even sent it to people. And to think the army would not let the Dr. blog any more. The whole place is being run by the nuts behind the walls..

[Gman]

3. On the other hand

the girl has a big future making huge bucks at the high end strip clubs.

[lateo]

4. This thread is worthless...

with out pictures...

:)

[bigworld]

9. pix here

<http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005060741,00.html>

[gottaB]

5. Honorem Restituimus?

Ready when called!

[maxrandb]

7. What Does it Say About Me?

That I almost didn't post this, because I feel I'm suffering from "outrage fatigue"?

I feel like we are fighting a "hydra", or sticking our fingers in cracks in the Hoover Damn. When will there be enough "stinking rotten heads" for America to begin to smell the stench coming from OUR White House? When will there be enough breaks in the damn before the whole damn thing comes tumbling down?

When is enough embarrassment ENOUGH? We truly have no shame.

[baldguy]

8. I don't understand. Who was as she wrestling - herself?

[Plaid Adder]

10. See, Senator Inhofe, THIS is what a frat prank looks like.

Yes, it's intensely embarrassing and an indicator of a serious problem with military discipline (which is increasingly starting to look like an oxymoron in this war), but although some of the participants are partially naked, it's not torture. That's because everyone involved is participating of their own free (if clearly alcohol-impaired) will, and nobody has a bag over his or her head, and there are no snarling guard dogs, and there are no electrodes, and nobody's bleeding or getting the crap beaten out of them.

It is interesting that what these people do for fun does superficially resemble what their colleagues were doing to their prisoners for pain, and I hope someone will write an article about that someday. But still, I can't help thinking you could put htese pictures up next to the Abu Ghraib pictures and make a helpful little tutorial out of them that you could use to explain the concept of torture to the reality-impaired.

Sigh,

The Plaid Adder

[stevedeshazer]

11. You're right

This is what the Defense Department said about REAL torture, that some soldiers were just "blowing off some steam."

While this prank is distasteful, it's not anything like being forced to masturbate or having a light stick shoved up your ass or having electrodes applied to your body parts.

[NYC]

29. Good post.

:hi:

[w4rma]

12. Only her? There were at least 3 women there, plus hoards of guys and

even two sergants who opened their rooms up for sex.

[saigon68]

13. CROSS CULTURAL EXPERIENCE FOR IRAQIS

I still want to see Lynddie in her thong.

Between thrashing the Shit out of the POWs and wiring the TIPS OF THEIR PENISES to 220 Volt Electric Current

[DistantWind88]

14. Just Gross

[NNN0LHI]

21. Sounds like Boom Boom was putting on quite a show

I bet the Iraqis who lived nearby were really impressed too.

Don

[DistantWind88]

24. Depends on if they saw it or not.

[deutsey]

22. Great...now they're going to put together "Girls Gone Wild--Iraqi Style"

:eyes:

[Cocoa]

28. so Jenna and Barbara elisted at last

[smoogatz]

37. Perfect. You get a gold star. (nt)

[William Bloode]

30. Ah, come on.......

Can't we find something to really be outraged about? Bombs going off, theocratic goverment taking shape, people dieing everyday whats the big deal?

Besides i figure they are her tits, she should be allowed to show them to whomever she pleases.

Whatta waste of time.

[Blue_Tires]

31. completely unprofessional conduct in a war zone

i don't care what kind of steam they were blowing off, there are just some things that shouldn't be done, imo...

now, i've never been in the military, and maybe i've watched too many movies, but i always thought they were at least held to SOME kind of standards of discipline and level-headed thinking...there was NONE on display here...If this had happened on a base here in the U.S., I think there would have been a much larger outcry, but the fact that this is going on in a war zone is mind-boggling...

and I don't mean to lecture or seem overly prudish or moralizing as a guy, but the women that agreed to give the entire battalion a few cheap thrills just set back the standards of women in the military at least 20 years...they should have felt insulted at the mere suggestion that they participate, and the person in charge that let this go on needs to be the FIRST person to lose his rank.

I shudder to think what the next generation of female enlistees will be expected to do, all in the name of fun and entertainment....but hey, if folks didn't feel that much outrage when Lynndie England set the standard for female reservists, then this whole thing will seem like a mere joke to most americans

[phusion]

33. YEA...

This is one of the most human things that I have heard coming from the Iraq war.

And we all know that war is not human, so, therefore, this is inappropriate.

---

On a less sarcastic note, why is this all of a sudden a "standards of women" issue? What's to say there weren't men wrestling? And what is so evil and degrading about mud wrestling?

[Blue_Tires]

35. there was no mention of men in the story

(but maybe they did) and if men did wrestle, there would be photos of them as well, i think (and maybe there are)...but something tells me that if it were just 100 guys alone with nothing to do, the whole "Let's all get piss drunk and have our own manly mud wrestling!!" idea would not have gotten off the ground (or maybe it would; you really never know)

and for the record, i have nothing against mud wrestling (personally, it's not my thing for kicks, and i've never quite understood the sexual appeal)...If people want to do it, that's fine--but my point is I think there are some times and places where it would be inappropriate, like say, a wake, a maternity ward, a busy office building, or a DFA meetup...

and even though I've never been military, i do know that women have had a hard time dealing in an atmosphere where some of the higher-ups view them as easy fucks, conquests in the making, or think that women can advance faster by using sexual charms/favors....The sex favor scandal at the army post in MD was national news (1998 or 99, iirc)..The stories the past two years about the culture of rape at the Air Force Academy has been national news...i just feel (and correct me if i'm wrong) that this little 'incident' will not improve the way women in the military are percieved, or what they will be expected to do to go along with the program

[phusion]

39. Thank you..I agree n/t

:toast:

[VegasWolf]

43. Yes, but I would just as soon NOT see men mud wrestling. n/t

[Blue_Tires]

32. this quote just tears it

Allen "is very patriotic and 100% American," Tomlin said. "She was a leader and she had tremendous potential but she wants to fit in so much she doesn't always use as much discretion as she should."

Other soldiers "dared her to do it," Tomlin said.

"She is a very beautiful young woman," the grandmother said, "and she is built like the proverbial ... well, you know. She gets a lot of male attention."
-------------------

oh, i see...because she's got the moneymakers and knows how to shake them, it's all right?

[NNN0LHI]

36. Yes, but she is very patriotic

This story reads like a script for a John Candy/Harold Ramis film.

Don

[struggle4progress]

34. We invaded to bring the Iraqis naked mud wrestling. eom

[smoogatz]

38. They're all adults, right?

This is mighty tame stuff compared to any given Saturday night in Saigon, c. 1969. Extra credit to anyone here who knows what a "Special Forces Wedding" is.

[fortyfeetunder]

50. Ok, I don't know..give me a clue

Welcome to DU smoogatz

Now, since I was too young to know...can you whisper in my ear what a "Special Forces Wedding" is?

[MrSlayer]

40. Much ado about nothing.

I fail to see the crime in this. It seems to me that everyone was simply having a good time in a place where there are surely too few.

[fortyfeetunder]

41. This was all?

Mud wrestling...I can't believe that was the only thing going on. I bet there were some orgies going on too.

We are about to go backward with women serving in the military, segregated ranks, etc...wait and see.

[blue neen]

42. Well, this story was on our local newscast tonight.

I hadn't heard anything about it yet today, so I thought I'd check the DU. Sure enough, here it is! I can always count on my fellow DU'ers! :)

IMHO, it is unprofessional and undignified behavior, however I have never served in the military. It does seem that we should be able to show a little more respect than this, though.

[Skittles]

44. women like this give females in the military a very bad name

yes, they hold us to a higher standard than they do the men and they always will

[VegasWolf]

45. Hey, mud wrestling is a good murikan pasttime. n/t

[Cheney Killed Bambi]

47. This is Stripes!

Who remembers Stripes?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083131/

[jayfish]

48. A Demotion?

I Don't get it. Looks like a funny college prank to me. What's the big deal?

Jay

[Disturbed]

51. Much ado about nothing?

To most Amerikans it's not that big of a deal but to Muslims this is an outrage. It will be all over the Muslim media and reinforces the concept that Amerikans are decadent people. It will further alianate Muslims toward Amerikans, so yea it Is a NOT about NOTHING!!!

[jayfish]

52. I Know, I Know D.

I was just a little ironic joke about Abu Ghraib and our current dive toward puritanism. It will take 1000 years (literally) for the US to remove our stain from the minds of the Muslim world.

Jay

[indepat]

54. Great. Now instead of earning perhaps 5% of what civilain contractors

are earning, she will get 4%. Don't you just love this sort of justice?

[DistantWind88]

55. Come 'on she

earns a bit more than that.

[indepat]

56. Was going on a reported $2,000 per day x 365 or $730,000 per annum

for a contractor (someone's uncle who made $60,000 back home) compared to an estimated pay of $36,500 the soldier perhaps received before being demoted. These estimates, while perhaps wildly inaccurate, may not, on the other hand, be that far from reality.

[DistantWind88]

57. Who the HELL is getting that much money???

DAMN!

[lebkuchen]

58. What's worse:mud wrestling sponsored by MPs at an Iraq prison or Tailhook?

Or rape at an Air Force Academy?