LA police kill 13-year-old suspected car thief

[Alpharetta]

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=149852005

LA police kill 13-year-old suspected car thief

MARGARET NEIGHBOUR

POLICE shot dead a 13-year-old suspected car thief following a three and a half-mile chase which ended when he reversed into their patrol car, sparking anger and shock in a Los Angeles neighbourhood.

Friends and neighbours of Devin Brown said they could not understand why police opened fire on him. "I know he was wrong for stealing a car, but what I really don’t understand is the police have had so much training," said Carmen Dorsey, who stopped by an impromptu memorial at the site where the teenager was killed.

...

Police declined to comment on the incident, but issued statements summarising the shooting and identifying the officers involved. Two officers, Steven Garcia, 31, who fired the shots, and Dana Grant, 26, have been assigned to desk duty following the shooting.

[Alpharetta]

1. Been a while since L.A. had a riot....

.

[Yuugal]

3. Riot? Then call out the national guard!

Hello? HELLO? ::cricket sound::

[Jack_DeLeon]

2. I dont support the police in this...

but if some kid tried to jack my car I would probably shoot him too.

[juajen]

7. No car is worth a life. That's what you have insurance for.

This is a disgusting loss of a young life, and it could have been two lives. Imagine, a thirteen and a fourteen year-old.

[okieinpain]

22. sorry, but that's what happens when you commit those types of

crimes. the only way I would get pissed at the police for using lethal force. is if the kid got of the car and gave up. other then that, if you can't do the time, don't commit the crime.

if he had slammed into one of my kids or wife, and killed them. what is the community to tell me sorry, but he's just a kid.

[gatlingforme]

25. I guess what you are saying is that if the kid was just sitting there

then the cops have every right to shoot. To think that one deserves to be killed because he chose to steal a car is beyond me.

[jayfish]

32. Then Would Would Be A Murderer.

A car is a thing that can be replaced, a human life is not.

Jay

[sonicx]

4. *prepares for flamewar*

:beer:

[Lauri16]

5. I'd like to know more of the details

before I make a judgement on the kids or the cops. I mean, the article says that there were two of them in the car. Did they ignore orders to show their hands or get out of the car? If they were told to do so in the first place?

I agree with the one person interviewed about the rubber bullets, but if the person in the car is packing the real thing, then rubber bullets aren't really going to do much good.

Tough call. The cops obviously don't know how old the kid was at the time. Not that age has anything to do with it.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

6. Age has a hell of a lot to do with it.

The kid was 13 and his passenger was 14. If you are saying that a 13 year old that commits a crime should be treated the same as a 30 year old that commits a crime, I have to disagree. What's next? Are they going to shoot that 4 year old that took his parent's car on a joy ride?

[Lauri16]

8. But the cops don't know that at the time

There's no way they could have known how old they were. I've seen 13 year old kids that look like they're 25.

I'm not saying that the cops were right to just blast away, but i'd like to know the circumstances.

[Jack_DeLeon]

9. Yes they should be treated the same...

The only way someone is going to get my car is if they make me fear for my life.

If I fear for my life I'm legally justified in using deadly force.

I'm sorry if someone threatens my life I'm not paticularly concerned if they are 10 or if they are 80.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NYC]

12. That 4 year old backed his car

into the cop's car, too.

[Sandpiper]

11. The LAPD - Lowering the bar for our nation's police departments since 1991

This doesn't surprise me at all.

[Heyo]

13. I don't know about this one...

.. definitely need more details about the circumstances. I hate to see it happen, but remember the cop has just been in a chase with a car theif in a stolen car, and has no idea what to expect, the guy did ram the police car.

Cops never know what is going in in the car, what is going through people's minds or what to expect...

... they might have that remote possibility of "Okay bro, as a soon as this 5-0 gets up the window, CAP his ass and step on it homie!!" to look forward to. Rare, no doubt, but it happens. People get desperate.

I hate to see this happen and somtimes cops are too trigger happy, but I understand the fear.

Heyo

[tooncesj0nes]

14. dont any of you read these articles before commenting?

..it states clearly that the driver drove into the police car?..its standard procedure that when you use a vehicle on an officer, its treated as a weapon..and you are treated the same way one would be if you pointed a weapon at an officer..we had a similar incident where a driver in a drug arrest a few weeks ago pinned an officer against a car, pinning the officer..the driver was shot dead..no wonder moderates are going conservative. im sure he was 'a good boy' just having a little mischeif (the 13 year old)...

[depakid]

15. You might do a little reading yourself

because otherwise you sound foolish chiding people for not knowing the facts when you yourself don't know them, either.

From the LA Times:

"Police are entitled to use deadly force to protect themselves or others from the immediate threat of death or serious bodily injury."

That does not appear to be the case here- the officer was not in danger of being sandwiched- if he was, there wouldn't be an issue.

Moreover, "the department's manual states that "firing at or from moving vehicles is generally prohibited."

"....Garcia, standing outside his police car, opened fire when Devin allegedly backed the Toyota toward the patrol unit.

In an interview, Bratton expressed concerns about Garcia's tactics, but said he would leave it to investigators to get to the bottom of the incident. Bratton said he believes that five of 10 shots fired by Garcia struck his police car and created the potential for assisting officers "to be caught in the cross-fire."

"The residents are very disturbed over this tragic and needless shooting," said John Mack, president of the Los Angeles Urban League. "We have a pattern here where some police officers don't value the lives of young African American males. There's a frustration here that's building up and makes it difficult to build a partnership with police."

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-shoot8feb08,1,2646709.story?coll=la-headlines-california&ctrack=1&cset=true

[tooncesj0nes]

16. depakid- how do you know

..the proximity of the officer to the squad car and the toyota?...what do you know about the angle of the Toyota as it approached the officer and the squad car?.....its up to the investigation to make this determination...even the L A Times articles states in the end (which you conveniently left out of this discussion) that investigations reveal more often than not force is justified in these incidents.....

[depakid]

17. You're right- investigations DO usually conclude

that force is justified (even in cases where it clearly not). It gets rubber stamped, which is one reason why the LAPD has earned such a bad reputation. And that reputation creates a law enforcement and public safety problem, because people often won't cooperate with them.

[tooncesj0nes]

19. depakid- I agree that bad police work is counterproductive to a society...

..my wife was a plaintiff in a successful suit that was just settled in Indianapolis last week that cost the city $45,000...Im sure that there will be much scrutiny over this shooting of the 13 year old. I take issue with the officer being found 'guilty' of misconduct before all the facts are on the table.

[depakid]

20. I hope you are right

I've just seen this happen over and over for too many years in LA. Things never seem to change there, and the city forks out something to the tune of $20 million a year on settlements for LAPD and sheriff's department abuse, much of which is needless.

It looks like there were witnesses in this case- and the matter was egrigious enough to make the paper (which almost never happens unless they've got the goods).

PS: I hope you wife is OK and satisified with her settlement. No one likes to be inolved in lawsuits....

[tooncesj0nes]

21. depakid..my wife was a witness to the raid in Indianapolis.

..at Solidarity Books (an Anarchist group). They were planning a protest at the National Governor Convention here last year and were raided by IPD without consent to enter..half the money went to the ICLU..all the plaintiff $ will be donated to charity...I expect this to be in the news in a few weeks as I believe they are planning an annoucement.

[Athame]

23. "The residents are very disturbed over this tragic and needless shooting,"

KPFK, the local Pacifica station played some of these residents at a town hall meeting with the police chief. They are more than a little disturbed! One man told the chief that he had better take control of the situation before the moment for control is past.

This comes on the heels of the two police officers who beat that young boy on the car a couple of years ago were not only reinstated their jobs, but were given huge settlements. The LA urban league and other activists did not even know there was a hearing or trial going on.

Things are boiling down in LA. Many referring to the Rodney King riots.

[Vladimir]

27. Was it cos 'e was black?

why am I not surprised that the answer seems to be yes...

[Scurrilous]

18. Yep...

..."when you use a vehicle on an officer, it's treated as a weapon."

Here in South Florida, there's a first grade teacher on trial for assault against a police officer. Her offense? She rolled her car window up on the officers fingers as he leaned inside to yell at her (over a parking violation at the airport). Lucky he didn't shoot her.

[Jack_DeLeon]

24. I dont know if you have noticed it...

but in many of these incidents the police intentionally put themselves in danger by moving in front of the vehicle so that they will be justified in using deadly force.

[gatlingforme]

26. interesting, how did you notice that? I don't recall seeing any

stats regarding your assumption.

[NickB79]

29. They intentionally do so in order to stop cars driven by fleeing suspects

They are trained to use their squad cars as tools to stop a speeding car that could potentially injure or kill innocent bystanders. Have you ever watched police chases on TV, where they use their cars to form roadblocks, box in fleeing suspects, or nudge them off the road? That is standard operation procedure, and I feel it is the correct thing for them to do. The sooner they can stop the chase, the less chance there is that a major accident will occur that kills other motorists. If they have to total out a police cruiser to do so, so be it. Do you really think that even a small percentage of police are so bloodthirsty and trigger-happy that they intentionally put themselves in harm's way just to get to shoot someone? I'm well aware that there are plenty of racist, power-hungry asshole police officers on the force today, but to say they are also eager to kill someone for fun is quite the logical leap.

[Der Blaue Engel]

28. I am a tad appalled at some of the responses on this thread

Though I can't say I'm surprised.

What have we become, and where can I turn in my membership card and resign from the human race?

This story breaks my heart, for a number of reasons, not the least of which is being the mother of a 13-yr-old boy. (Sure; go ahead and flame me for feeling pain over the death of a car thief just because I'm a mom. Tell me it's all the parents' fault they raised such a terrible human being. Then go look at yourself in the mirror.)

[Ilsa]

30. When I hear stories like this,

I have a tiny inkling of why some societies advocate for returning to a simpler way of living.

[thecai]

31. This is CRAZY!

I was plowed off the highway by a car over twice the size of my car, but I would not have wanted to SHOOT the guy.
Those big black things on the front of police cars PROTECT them some.
Who is going to start policing THE POLICE?