Austrian Firm Sells 800 (sniper) Rifles to Iran

[quaoar]

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/10857842.htm?1c

GEORGE JAHN
Associated Press

VIENNA, Austria - Iran has contracted to buy hundreds of high-powered rifles from an Austrian firm, the company's owner said Wednesday. The sale drew an indirect rebuke from the United States, but Austrian government ministries said no laws were broken.

Wolfgang Fuerlinger, head of Steyr Mannlicher GmbH, confirmed the deal between his company and Iranian authorities and said U.S. Embassy officials had expressed concerns the arms could make their way to Iraq for use against American troops.

He said he could not confirm Austrian media reports that part of the order - 800 long-range semiautomatic rifles that can penetrate thick metal, along with high-tech snipers' scopes - was flown to Iran last month.

The United States has strict embargoes in place against Iran on sales of weapons or technology or materials that could be used to make weapons.

[donheld]

1. Looks like some may help the other side this time

We may have a tougher time this go around.

[saigon68]

34. Homeland security will want a few of these

To KILL the disruptors in the US Black Ghettos in a few years. Maybe mow down a few "Peace Protesters" at the same time.

[w4rma]

2. Arnold Schwarzenegger is Austrian. (nt)

[Hobarticus]

5. And I'm sure he's outraged...OUTRAGED, I say!

Unless he gets a slice of the pie.

[DistantWind88]

37. Acually he's

American, now.

[happyslug]

3. Good Weapon......

http://www.steyr-mannlicher.com/publish/indexab5e.html?id=103#


http://www.steyr-mannlicher.com/publish/index6f1e.html?id=440#

http://www.steyr-mannlicher.com/publish/index2c6d.html

[pinniped]

8. Top model looks like the Steyr Scout.

Funny, I never saw a semiautomatic + bolt-action rifle combo.

--800 long-range semiautomatic rifles--

Unless, the order contained other Steyr model rifles as well.

I don't even see why this story became public. Is it common practice for Austrian arms companies to publicly disclose sales to the world?

More likely they're concerned the rifles will be used against invading forces in Iran.

--said U.S. Embassy officials had expressed concerns the arms could make their way to Iraq for use against American troops.--

[Blue_Tires]

23. VERY high quality

[Richard Steele]

24. The actual model mentioned is the '50 HS'

A single-shot bolt action 50-caliber.

Photo and specs are here:

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn64-e.htm

[solinvictus]

38. Mmmm....

precision firearms...I'd love to have one in .338 Lapua or .308 Win.

[Mikimouse]

4. That's not FAIR!

That would mean that those damnable EYE-Rainians could actually shoot back. Foul! Foul! <sarcasm off>

[happyslug]

6. List of Iranian Infrantry Weapons, those Iranian may fight back....

* 12.7 mm Degtyarev (DShK-38 and Model 38/46) heavy machine gun
* 12.7 x 107 mm machine gun
* 23 mm VYa and ZU-23
* 37 mm Marsh Mortar
* 40 mm tandem warhead anti-tank rocket
* 60 mm T1 and T2 Commando mortars
* 7.62 mm MG3 machine gun
* 7.62 x 39 mm M1943
* 7.62 x 51 mm NATO
* 7.62 x 54R Mosin-Nagant
* 73 mm SPG-9 Kopye recoilless gun
* 9 x 19 mm Parabellum
* 9K11 Malyutka anti-tank guided missile system
* Anti-personnel hand grenade
* Defence Industries Organisation (Parchin Missile Industries)
* Defence Industries Organisation
* Hadid 120 mm mortar
* Hadid 60 mm mortar
* Hadid 81 mm mortar
* Hoshdar 2 38 mm signal pistol
* Iranian 120 mm mortar bombs
* Iranian 120 mm rocket-assisted HE mortar bomb
* Iranian 26.5 mm signal cartridges
* Iranian 60 mm HE mortar bomb
* Iranian 81 mm mortar bombs
* M18 coloured smoke grenades
* NAFEZ 40 mm anti-tank rocket
* NATIONAL INVENTORIES
* Parachute signal rocket, red light
* RAAD and I-RAAD anti-tank weapon systems
* Saegheh 40 mm anti-personnel rocket
* Shahid Shah Abady Industrial Group
* ZOAF 9 mm pistol


http://www.steyr-aug.com/contriesarmrorments.htm

[Mikimouse]

7. You have to wonder if Rumsfeld will insist on this being a cakewalk...

just as in the Iraq debacle. Iran has a real Army, a real Air Force, and a real determination not to be an American Vassal state. In addition, they have deals with China and Russia, so it may be that the Iranian 'insurgents' will be wearing the uniforms of the Russian or Chinese Army. And a good time will be had by all. <sarcasm off>

[driver8]

26. We will be met by Iranians with flowers...

...and hand grenades, anti-tank rockets, machine guns...

Get ready people -- it is going to get ugly!

[hack89]

32. They are no better armed than the Iraq army was ...

why is there any reason to think they will perform any better?

[NickB79]

33. For many reasons

For one, they DO appear better-armed than Saddam's army was. I noticed they have anti-tank missile systems listed, something Saddam had very little of. A large supply of decent anti-tank missiles can definitely mess up most armored vehicles we have, including an M1 Abrams tank with a good hit, or several concurrent hits. This is almost certainly an impartial list as well, so what they have there is only what we know for sure they have. Since Iran hasn't been under enforced sanctions like Iraq, you can bet they have a whole lot more of the more advanced weapons than Iraq had.

For another reason, the Iranians have an incredible ability to fight in the face of overwhelming odds. In the Iran-Iraq war, they employed human wave assaults to overwhelm Iraqi positions, at the cost of tens of thousands of Iranian soldiers. They are not afraid to die for their country and their way of life. Most of Iraq's military, on the other hand, quickly surrendered or retreated when faced with US opposition.

One more, the Iranian army is much more well-organized than Saddam's army was in 2003. They've had two years now to observe US military action next door in Iraq and train their soldiers on how to counter our tactics as best they can. Before this, they saw what happened in the first Gulf War, a full 14 yrs earlier. They've had plenty of time to train their soldiers about what methods work best to neutralize US military superiority (such as urban and guerrilla warfare).

Another reason is that there are FAR more Iranian soldiers than Saddam could ever field. Iran has a population almost 3 times as large as Iraq's. They have the ability to call up several million soldiers in a short period of time to defend their country in time of war. The US, on the other hand, has almost no troops left to devote to invading Iran because of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Finally, the very terrain of Iran gives a significant advantage to Iranian fighters. While Iraq is mostly flat desert, Iran is largely mountain ranges that are hard to move large convoys of vehicles and armor through. These provide excellent spots for Iranian soldiers to set up and shoot artillery, mortar and heavy weapons fire (such as these .50 BMG sniper rifles) down onto oncoming enemies. And don't forget that Iran is over twice the size of Iraq, meaning twice the land we have to control and twice the land Iranian fighters can use to hide and counterattack.

[Tempest]

9. How is this any different...

From Reagan selling weapons to the Contras which were then used against Guatemalans?

Why are Americans such hypocrites?

[Randi_Listener]

10. .308 is no fucking joke

That round can make mince fucking meat of your skull.

[jmowreader]

20. These aren't .308

This rifle, according to the original piece, is the Steyr .50-caliber sniper rifle--which fires the same round the .50-caliber machine gun uses.

That round can make mince fucking meat of your engine block.

[BrotherBuzz]

25. You neglected to mention that mincemeat engine block....

could be a half mile away. You know what I mean, Vern?

[driver8]

27. Holy shit, batman!! A .50 cal sniper rifle??

That is some serious weaponry. Does the US have any of those? If not, we should buy some from the Austrians.

[BrotherBuzz]

31. Yes...and made in america

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/01/06/60minutes/main665257.shtml
<snip>

First, a police sharpshooter fired the NYPD’s own .30 caliber sniper rifle at a steel target. Downrange, three football fields away, the three shots from the .30 caliber (remember, the 308 is a .30 cal) rifle bounced off the half-inch thick steel.

"You can see it hasn’t penetrated it," says Kelly.

Then the sharpshooter fired three rounds from a Barrett .50-caliber rifle at the same target.

"Went right through," says Kelly. "It is clearly a weapon of war, a round to be used in a wartime situation. It’s appropriate for the military. The effective range is about 2,000 yards. It’s a very formidable weapon."

In other words, if the NYPD’s range had been 20 football fields long, instead of three, the .50-caliber rifle – firing ordinary ammunition -- still would have been devastatingly effective.

<more>

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

41. A Very Formidable Weapon...

Providing that nobody is dropping several thousand pounds of high explosives right on your head. A few hundred sniper rifles in the teeth of an an arsenal of air-to-surface missiles isn't exactly a level playing field.

My point here is that this is part of BushCo's newest "hysteria initiative." They want to whip up fear wherever they can as justification for invading Iran.

Sweet Mother of God! The Iranian military has (gasp) MILITARY WEAPONS! We'd better invade now before it's too late.

[Anakin Skywalker]

11. All Right! Good Ole Capitalism at Work, Baby!

Don't frigging cry, Rethugs. It is your RELIGION, no?

[EVDebs]

12. What kind of Air Force does Iran have ? Also navy ? If you look

at what happened during Gulf War I, it didn't matter much what they had on the ground and if you weren't planning to occupy. The air force pretty much made consistent mincemeat out of the ground armies. And nighttime was no time to come out to play.

Wonder how much intelligence the NRO see www.nro.gov has going about now on these characters in Iran ? The only thing I'm afraid of is how badly the Delta Force guys (remember the picture of the mullahs pissing on the dead from the botched rescue mission Carter ordered ? ) with short fuses might not be in the 'merciful and compassionate' mode with these mullahs nowadays, if you know what I mean Vern.

Very good posts giving the Order of Battle. Let's lighten up a bit here though, and give peace a chance. Before something EVERYBODY will regret happens.

BTW, anyone ever hear of Ted Shackley's Third Option ? You arm everyone in a region of conflict and profit on the mess but at the same time keep the best weapons for yourself. Looks like that going on here.

[bemildred]

13. Here:

http://meria.idc.ac.il/journal/2001/issue1/jv5n1a2.html

FWIW, opinions vary widely on this subject, but it seems clear it will
be a much more expensive enterprise than the Iraq fandango, which we
are losing.

[solinvictus]

42. Holy crap! Look at this inventory of just what we know ot...

"Major transfers between 1989 and 2000 include at least 104 T-72 tanks from Poland, 422 T-72s from Russia, 413 BMP-2 IFVs from Russia, self-propelled artillery from Russia and 106 artillery pieces from China; small numbers of SA-2 SAMs from China and SA-5 and SA-6 SAMs from Russia; five Mi-17 helicopters, twelve Su-24 strike aircraft, and twenty-four MiG-29 fighters from Russia, and twenty older F-7 fighters from China; ten Houdong-class fast attack craft and C-802 anti-ship cruise missiles from China, three Kilo-class submarines from Russia, and large numbers of wake-homing torpedoes from Russia and advanced naval mines from Russia and China.(25) "

In light of the way things are going so wonderfully in Iraq, sure, let's go ahead and take on an even better armed opponent.

[quaoar]

16. Iran does have significant missile capability

They have missiles with a range of about 1,500 km on mobile launchers.

[EVDebs]

21. So, you're saying they will play 'hide the salami' so to speak ?

Hmmm. All this b.s. just so some paranoid mullahs can tweak Israel and the US. Of course they will say just the opposite. The Arabs have a saying 'show the sword and you are condemned to use it'. Maybe more diplomacy is needed here all the way 'round.

Our 'crazy mullah', the Pentagon brass, think almost identically to these guys ! Amazing.

[PurityOfEssence]

30. Peace has no chance

Do you not read? How many among us simply couldn't imagine that Iraq would be attacked? I was wrong about the pace and outcome of the war (I even thought Iran might take part, silly me) but never had any doubt that they'd do it; all this is amply--and stridently--documented on this board.

I'm wrong about many things, but these things are true: Syria is going to be fucked with and probably invaded, and Iran will be clamped down on and hit with pinpoint attacks. Whatever else is attempted is beyond me; I'm too logical to be able to predict the actions of "believers".

I'm sorry to be so harsh; you're obviously bright and decent, but those are often dangerous traits in a world that is neither. Laissez les bon temps roulez.

[DistantWind88]

39. The NRO has no intelligence on anyone

since they are not an intelligence gathering nor intelligence producing agency. They acquire and operate satellites for the intelligence gathering and producing agencies.

[porkrind]

48. Sunburn supersonic cruise missile: Aegis cruiser killer

This is a soviet weapon (optionally nuclear armed) Iran has purchased. It's designed to destroy a carrier group. :scared:

[DistantWind88]

49. Only works if the launch

platform doesn't get hit before it launches those bad boys.

[DoNotRefill]

14. This really IS bad news....

these guns are incredibly easy to trace. If even ONE turns up being used against US troops in Iraq, that'll be all the provocation Bush would need to go into Iran. YOU KNOW HE WOULD LOVE TO.

[BadGimp]

15. wow

if true = Bad

if not True = REAL BAD

seems like a win win for GW and friends

[oneighty]

17. Perhaps the college

Republicans will have a new program. 'Kill the Iranian Sniper.'

Sarcasm by 180

[driver8]

28. No, they will have a new program called "Draft the poor, student

loan carrying Democrats." You know these Bushitler youth m-fers aren't going to fight it.

[Igel]

18. "The United States has strict embargoes in place against

Iran on sales of weapons or technology or materials that could be used to make weapons."

And other nations routinely ignore them ... because they're US embargoes.

Then again, they routinely ignore UN embargoes when it's in their interests.

[RuleofLaw]

43. I believe Iraq was the only country with an UN embargo

All orther embargoes are imposed by the individual countries!

[Gyre]

19. Dept of Homeland Security(HS)

just bought a shitload (like 60,000) of HK p2000sk pistols. Only the most goddamn expensive sidearm made. Only the best for those protecting us from those who hate us for our freedoms, whoever that is. Probably nobody. Though there's millions who really do hate us for our stupidity and arrogance.

Oh well, HS can shoot them anti-democracy types with some serious style. Smith and Wesson is just too proletariat for OUR domestic brownshirts. They need some of them really good German weapons. None of that american shit.

Gyre

[EVDebs]

22. Gives a whole new meaning to phrase 'Smoke 'em if you got 'em' eom

[PurityOfEssence]

29. Ah knew'd it afore I even saw it: Mannlicher-Carcanno was Oswald's gun

All I read was "Austrian" and "sniper rifle" and my swirling prejudices were in full flood.

Funny how you see a little flash of news and it sparks a "wait a minute" moment...

The United States has strict embargoes in place, unless it involves Halliburton's need to make massive money, in which case it can be off-shored and raked in in spades.

Can't imagine why the Iranians would want such things...

Junior and his psycho rangers have opened up a world of shit, and they don't even know it. You can get along on connections and money for a long time, but when you try to mess with the order of things you don't understand, you need to be competent. That, mercifully, is the one saving grace about all this: they're fuck-ups. Unmercifully, though, is the reality that we will all pay for their greed. Sadly, too, is the obvious conclusion that the weakest and most at risk will pay the most.

[BikeWriter]

35. Accurate to 1,000 yards or so.

[TahitiNut]

36. That rifle would go through Humvee armor like it was butter.

I wonder how it'd do with DU rounds. I wouldn't want to be inside an APC.

[DainBramaged]

40. The saying 'close only counts for horseshoes and hand grenades'

Also applies here. ANY strike anywhere on a human with this round is instan't death.

[Rush1184]

44. True, even getting shot in the arm with a .50

The force of the impact of the round WILL knock the person down.

[Zynx]

47. Well, the KE won't knock them down - but it will splatter the arm.

They will probably fall down once they realize their arm is gone.

[BikeWriter]

51. Warm butter.

[LinuxInsurgent]

45. looks like we should send our soldiers in there...

so that the Iranian Revolutionary Guard snipers take them out! /sarcasm off

I wouldn't mess with Iran...they got a much larger, trained army...not like the laughable "reserves" army that saddam had.

and they don't got ETHNIC divisions to deal with. They are all Persian...and highly nationalistic...and they got Sunburn missiles, and at the very least, tanks and an airforce.

Yeah...they're technology doesn't match ours...but they got just enough to make life hell for us...did the Vietcong have weaponry to match us? And the Iranians are MUCH better armed than the Vietcong was.

[Redstone]

46. Now that's a dog

that can bark here and bite WAY down the street!

Good thing I'm too old to get drafted; I wouldn't want to be in the crosshairs of one of those things.

Redstone

[sarcasmo]

50. You can't blame Iran for getting ready. They only want to arm themselves

for the inevitable invaders from the west.