Kansas board to seek experts' opinion on science standards

[atommom]

Conservatives on the Kansas Board of Education agreed today to solicit opinions from experts on how evolution should be taught in science classrooms.

The board voted 6-4 to establish a subcommittee that will conduct hearings to “investigate the merits of two opposing views” offered by a 26-member committee that is charged with revising the standards. The two Democrats and two moderate Republicans on the board voted against the proposal.

The three-member subcommittee is made up of all conservatives. No one from the other side would agree to be on it, said John Calvert, who is serving as an attorney for eight members of the science standards committee who split from the full committee. The eight support changes that fall in line with intelligent design, the theory that some aspects of the universe are best explained by intelligent causes.

The state board also voted to pay for experts to travel to Kansas to testify. And it agreed that the proposal from the eight would be posted on the state department's Web site.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/10857022.htm?1c

Hmm, a subcommittee made up of conservative ID supporters? What kind of "experts" do you think they will call on? And what conclusion do you think they'll reach? This is truly turning into a circus.

[MichiganVote]

1. The firm of Falwell, Dobson & Pope

[DrWeird]

2. I'm sure they'll have somebody out from "Creation Science Museums."

The kind of people whose evidence includes painted murals of people living with dinosaurs and Johnny Hart cartoons.

[0007]

3. Will junior be trucking to Kansas?

This is truly turning from a first class circus act into a first class carnival with a ride for even the handicap.

[oneighty]

4. Intelligent designer

Would that ID be the God of the Christians? Jews? Muslims? Buddhists? Others? Or a new mystery man/woman? Maybe a bug-eyed green beast with suction cups for eating things?

180

[Charlie Brown]

7. I think we know which "designer" they're referring to

Student: is the Intelligent Designer God?

Teacher: It could be anything, we don't know (wink, wink)

By the way,how do they know the "designer" is intelligent?

[damntexdem]

5. They didn't like what they got from experts who know science, so ...

they're turning to experts in ignorance to deliver what they want. Hey, Kansas is going for the record: international laughingstock twice in a decade (first time was 1999, the last time the yahoos controlled the BOE) on the same issue!

Meanwhile, efforts are underway to establish a Missouri/Kansas biotech corridor in the KC area. Good luck!

[mainer]

6. Strip wacko Kansas schools of their accreditation

That's it, in a nutshell. If the school doesn't teach evolution, then its students won't get taken seriously by major universities. Oh sure, Bob Jones will take you, but these kids are going to have a hard time getting into an Ivy League university.

And if you're a smart student who wants a good science education? You can be sure there will be certain target schools who'll advertise the fact they DO teach evolution -- and those will be magnets for the serious students.

Once the religious nuts figure out their kids are only getting into second-rate colleges, they'll realize there are consequences.

[atommom]

8. Unfortunately, it's the state BOE that has the power, and we keep

getting people in there that are nuttier than fruitcakes. Let the fundies split off and form their own private schools, I say. Of course, that might strengthen the Repub's case for axing all of public ed and issuing vouchers instead. :eyes: It's hard to see your way in this nest of snakes....

[mitchtv]

10. let them let their schools go

it's not like they're doing any good. Most thinking people will leave that god forsaken , backwards, hellhole.Maybe we can start a fund to take refugees into secular states.

[atommom]

11. But .... this is also the home of a lot of people who aren't nuts ...

(at least in the religious sense). We live in a good school district right now. I'm fervently against anything that would reduce the quality of my children's education. I also don't want to pull up stakes just because some fundies want to make over the public school system. (Though I'd love to see what a "secular state" looks like. ;) ) I'd prefer that they leave. So we're at a stalemate there.

[hlthe2b]

12. You should be VERY concerned. The best universities are NOT going

to ignore this most basic deficiency in science education. I'm sorry for you, but having Repug relatives (conservative, not religious fundies) in Kansas, this is probably the only thing that will wake up those moderates to stand with most DEMS to fight this.

Good luck. It isn't easy being sane in an insane world, is it?

[mitchtv]

13. It's time for Sane people and real Christians

to speak up loudly or you are lost in Jesusland.(with Dumb kids)

[atommom]

16. I agree! I want my kids educated in Secularland, dammit.

[Thor_MN]

28. My opinion on vouchers

I am single and have no children. I do not complain about paying for the public education of other people's children. If, however, people start whining about vouchers so they can get "their" money and send their kids to private schools - then I want MY money back too.

Here's the deal - we all agree it is a good thing to educate children, that's why we pay taxes. If you want some other type of education for your children, fine, it's on your dime. That does not mean you get out of chipping in your share for public education - that money is for educating ALL children, it has nothing to do with educating YOUR children in a different manner.

[VegasWolf]

9. "the merits of two opposing views". Talk about mixing apples and oranges.

Science is science and philosophy is philosophy, and a very
poor philosophy it is.

[CO Liberal]

14. Ever Notice That "Intelligent Design" Is Supported By Idiots?

:shrug:

[Norquist Nemesis]

25. LOL! Yes, and they wear it like a badge

More and more, I see cars with the fish on them. That didn't used to bother me until I started seeing more and more that are a fish with "DARWIN" or "TRUTH" inside of it. The latest ones are a fish with an open mouth 'eating' the words 'DARWIN' and 'TRUTH'. It's getting down right frightening anymore.

I'll practice religion on my own terms and refuse to impose it on others, thank you very much!

[atommom]

15. The circus just gained another ring, as our AG, Phill Kline, met

with (only) the conservative members of the BOE to suggest putting stickers in bio textbooks urging students to consider evolution "only a theory."

[MHalblaub]

17. Can anybody explain IC to me? -EOM-

[Southern Dem 2005]

20. Do you mean "ID"

If so, here's a link to an article. I had another one that is better but can't find it.

http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/articles/996_intelligent_design_not_accep_9_10_2002.asp

[MHalblaub]

23. IC - irreducible complexity? What is that? -EOM-

[KansDem]

18. Last week, I posted that Phil Kline (KS's AG) met secretly with neo-cons..

Phill Kline, Kansas's Attorney Gerneral, has been meeting secretly with the BOE's neo-Cons about placing stickers on the state's science textbooks.

Although not the exact article, here is the gist of it:

Kline met Tuesday with the six members of the board's conservative majority in two groups of three, which moderate board member Sue Gamble said violated the spirit of the state's open meetings law. The law requires meetings of six or more board members -- a quorum -- be held in public.

........

The board's four moderate members were not included in the meetings, Gamble said. She wasn't surprised the stickers were discussed, but said she didn't know if anyone on the board was pushing the idea.

"This is just the start. Abstinence education is waiting in the wings," Gamble said.

Kline's comments came as the board, voting Wednesday along its 6-4 conservative majority, created a three-member panel of board members to hear expert testimony about evolution and its place in the state's science education standards.

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:rPm9veEuFd8J:www.cjonline.com/stories/020905/bre_kline.shtml+kline+secret+%22sue+gamble%22+stickers&hl=en

I'm anxious to see what this "expert" testimony is...

[Toots]

19. In Science you begin with a hypothesis

After you have tested your hypothesis and others from the field have also and can find no fault then it becomes "Scientific Theory" Such as Atomic Theory or Theory of Gravity. If we treated Atomic Theory the same way they are treating Theory of Evolution we would suspect that Atomic (Nuclear) Bombs were only theory and could not exist so no need to fear North Korea or Iran. That form of thought process is called "Logic". Many Christians don't seem to have that.

[atommom]

21. Here's an interesting summary of the evolution drama thus far,

including a link to a transcript of one of the public hearings on science standards in Kansas.

<snip>
And why aren’t the public hearings the right process? Well, because the vast bulk of the supporters for Intelligent Design creationism are there for religious reasons, and they are not shy about making that clear. They know very little about what Intelligent Design creationism claims scientifically, but they know it’s their best bet against evolution.

And why do we need an “expert panel”? Because there are very few scientists who will and can speak for Intelligent Design creationism in a way that can superficially pass for science, and most of them work for the Discovery Institute. Without a protected forum for the “scientific experts” in Intelligent Design creationism (with expenses paid for by the state, by the way), there is no way for them to get an opportunity to have the floor.

And so now we have this Science Hearing Committee, which is what Calvert said we needed; and this is no coincidence. The state Board will do what they have to to try to give an air of legitimacy to their eventual decision (which is almost certain) to insert Intelligent Design creationism into the standards. Having hearings which supposedly focus on the “science” of Intelligent Design creationism is meant to blunt, or even negate, the effect of the public hearings and the work of the writing committee, which is, we might remember, the body with the official responsibility to consider all input in revising the standards.

But the Intelligent Design creationists didn’t like what the committee has done (voting down their proposals) and they didn’t like what the public hearings did (showcasing the religious issues), so they manufactured a third option – their own personal showcase, playing by their rules and with them in control.

http://www.pandasthumb.org/pt-archives/000813.html#more

[skip fox]

22. I'm sure they's be after real scientists who publish in refrereed journals

and teach at accreditated universities as professors of Biology. Right?

(You bet.)

[JI7]

24. what a joke

[Norquist Nemesis]

26. It would be funny if it weren't actually occurring. n/t

[JI7]

27. true, how many years has it been since the scopes trial ?

if it was just a few communities around the country it might not be so bad. but these are entire states doing it.

i'm very convinced it's things like this rather than those fanatics like the "god hates fags", rush limbaugh and other loud extremists who are really the problem in this country.