Reaction Mounts To Fatal Los Angeles Police Shooting Of 13-Year-Old

[Conservativesux]

Updated: February 9th, 2005 11:01:29 AM

Reaction Mounts To Fatal Los Angeles Police Shooting Of 13-Year-Old

GILLIAN FLACCUS
Associated Press


LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Angry residents and community leaders in South Los Angeles questioned why police shot a 13-year-old boy suspected of stealing a car.

Police fired 10 rounds into a car driven by Devin Brown, who was unarmed, after he led them on a 3 1/2-mile chase and then backed into their cruiser early Sunday.

The boy, an eighth-grader at a magnet school for gifted youth, was pronounced dead at the scene. A 14-year-old passenger was arrested and booked on charges of grand auto theft.

"I know he was wrong for stealing a car, but what I really don't understand is the police have had so much training,'' said Carmen Dorsey, 38, a church youth leader who visited a memorial Monday honoring Brown.


More at:
http://officer.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=21215

[whistle]

1. What exactly is a magnet school for gifted youth...

...?

[htuttle]

2. A school that draws from a wide ranging geographic area...

...for gifted youth. I think the 'magnet' part means it pulls students from several different 'regular' schools.

Or something like that.

[Skittles]

18. I really dislike that term

everyone is gifted in some way

[Career Prole]

23. The pResident being the exception that proves the rule. n/t

[DistantWind88]

36. You never met

my newphews...

[Ilsa]

3. The curriculum at such a school is designed

to educate and work to enhance the talents of students identified as gifted in some area. It might be math, science, writing, arts, etc. They study academics as well, but they get extra opportunites in a the area in which they are exceptional.

(on edit: htuttle's comments are valid as well as it draws students from a larger area..)

[whistle]

4. And this is part of the public education departments, not private

...is that correct? By that I mean, it isn't a private group receiving public funds from the local school taxes or federal funds.

[Hepburn]

5. In Los Angeles...

....it's a PUBLIC school.

[MountainLaurel]

6. Yes, public schools

Generally, magnet schools are created to help enhance the regular school curriculum in some way, by offering a special program for gifted students, a program that teaches all subjects through the prism of the fine arts, or even a language-focused school where all classes are taught solely in a foreign language, except for English. In urban areas, they're often created to help stem the flow of middle-class families from the public school system.

But this is all tangential to the issue of there being a dead 13-year-old.

[Ilsa]

25. Right, it is a public school with puclic finds. n/t

[JohnLocke]

55. It's public.

A magnet school is a public school with public money. Not the same thing as a charter school, which is a private school with public money.

[MrSlayer]

7. It's a shame but you can't blame the cops.

If the kid would have just stopped and given up this would have never happened. Aiming your car at the police is grounds for them to use deadly force. Foolish actions sometimes have harsh consequences.

[Bonobo]

8. I blame them. By the way, very telling screen name ya got there.

[PunkPop]

10. Me too.

How much danger were these cops in? If they had a good enough shot at the driver couldn't they have shot the tires just as easily?

Wouldn't it be pretty obvious that it was a kid in that car or was this kid unusually large for his age?

Would he have been shot if he were white?

[Jack_DeLeon]

13. Thats a pretty silly assumption...

Why would having a good shot at the driver mean that the police have a good shot at the tires?

When you are in you car sitting in traffic, how easily can you see the driver in the car ahead of you? How easily can you see the tires to his car?

I definately think the police were wrong in this, but your statement shows some ignorance.

There is definately a double standard here though. If I was sitting in traffic and the car in front of me decided to back up into my car I would probably not be justified in shooting him for it. However these police will likely get off.

[Conservativesux]

30. Cadet training teaches the cops thats its all about the "officers' safety"

...so "shoot to kill if you THINK your life is endangered".


Whatever happened to the days of "Adam-12" when cops were expected to be able to handle situtations like this without resorting to firepower?

What about PUBLIC SAFETY, instead of "officer safety" and hair-trigger responces to perceived, not real, threats?

[Skeptic_All]

40. Sorry my friend

but the above question is a direct result of watching too much TV. While I will neither back the officers or condemn their action at this point, I believe it is paramount that the Los Angeles District Attorney's office conduct a full and open hearing into this as well as all shootings resulting in use of deadly force. While you cannot make everyone happy with the results of these investigations, accusations of "cover-up" will be few. Grand juries are great for determining probable cause, but because these proceedings are not open to the public, they should be the second step in the long process of absolving police officers of responsibility.

[MrSlayer]

15. Why? Should they have just allowed him to smash them into oblivion?

There are real consequences when you attempt to kill policemen or they think you are attempting to kill them by your actions. You put their lives in danger and they will shoot you, it's pretty simple. Here are a few tips to save your life. 1) Don't steal a car. 2) If you decide to ignore point one and the cops get on your tail, stop. Do not take them on a high speed chase. 3)If you decide to ignore points one and two at least stop when you are cornered and do not attempt to ram the police car because they will shoot you.

What would you have liked for them to do, get run down? It's a split second life and death decision for those guys out there.


I think it's a terrible thing but I understand why it happened. Because I support the officers' actions does not mean I'm reveling in the carnage. That's just dumb.

[Conservativesux]

32. BS! Excuses wont bring the dead back and they wont make a wrong, right.

[MrSlayer]

51. What excuses?

The facts are the facts. If you attempt to ram your car into policemen they will shoot you, period. End of story. Why does everyone want to make the criminal out to be the victim? He made three very bad mistakes and the last one was fatal. There is no reason it had to turn out this way.

[Conservativesux]

61. Two armed professional police officers against two unarmed Black males..

..nothing to see here folks! Just another day on the street.

Move along now, move along or we will have to Taser you until you drop to your knees before your masters, the Men-in-Blue.

You do know what you can do with your little nightstick, correct, MrSlayer ? :mad:

[MrSlayer]

67. Yes, I have very good ideas of what to do with my "little" nightstick.

None of which I can describe in this forum due to sensitivity rules or some shit.

[thecai]

69. Too Abusive and Threatening?

Is that why you cannot post "what you'll do with your little nightstick", Officer Mr. Slayer?
Do any UPRIGHT, RESPECTABLE PEACE OFFICERS post here? I'd like to read something from THEM for a change.

[jayfish]

37. You Act As Though This Kid Got...

a 100-yard start and was barreling at the cops. This would all happen very quickly, but it sounds like they boxed the vehicle into a confined space then jumped out to make the arrest with weapons drawn. The kid probably put the car into reverse to back away from whatever obstructed his flight and as soon as those reverse lights went on, pop, pop ,pop. I'd like to see video (fat chance) to prove me right or wrong, but that seems like the likely scenario. I don't think your reveling in the carnage, I just think you are making incorrect assumptions about the incident. Hopefully, time will tell.

Jay

[hollywood926]

12. IT'S A LITTLE KID!

Do you expect him to know he's going to be shot at if he doesn't behave a certain way? He was probably scared shitless. They couldn't shoot his tires or use some tear gas?

The trouble is, the people who are usually recruited to become police officers are not-so-bright, barely educated, arrogant assholes - add to that rules that allow them to be above the law and you have a recipe for disaster, as we see with the current occupant of the White House.

[Jack_DeLeon]

14. I have little sympathy for the "victim" here...

The police were wrong in thier actions, but the victim is also responsible.

Hell we would probably all be better off if both vehicles errupted in a fiery explosion and killed them all.

[Red State Rebel]

16. I would expect anyone to know if they drive a vehicle at a cop

they are going to have a problem.

You might want to explaing your description of police officers as "not so bright, barely educated, arrogant assholes" to the police officers who are members of DU. I know of at least one.

[Skittles]

19. I beg to differ on your description of police

the many I have known have for the most part been intelligent, fine folk. As far as these cops go, I withhold judgement because no way in hell would I BE a cop (that split-second decision part just unnerves me) so why would I second-guess what happened? Let the witnesses and experts figure it out.

[Skeptic_All]

42. Being a police officer............

I highly resent the profile you present. While there are still many departments where the "Barney" is still present, many law enforcement officers, especially in your larger cities, are well educated, highly professional public servants. You begin your argument by asserting that the driver of the vehicle was "a little kid". While this fact is irrefutable, it was at the time of this incident, a fact unknown to the officers on the scene. That is not to say these officers would have handled the situation any differently, but I'm not going to speak for them. I wasn't there and the facts concerning the decision of the officer to shoot have not yet been brought to light.

[progressivebydesign]

45. Often people here jump to "cops are bad" attitudes instantly.

Also, 'drugs are good', is another common theme. I've known many police officers.. and unless an officer has some sort of undiagnosed condition, the officers do not go out every day hoping to shoot someone. And.. they would never knowingly shoot a child, unless the child posed a threat to their safety, or public safety. THey had no idea if this person was armed in the car... I'm sorry they shot him, but there is a level of space that police need in order to avoid a bloodbath, and then the prospect of having an armed suspect attacking citizens, next. My 13 year old is taller than me, and is actually assumed to be an adult sometimes... I'll assume nothing was obvious in a highly charged situation like that. I appreciate the hard work that police officers do every day. I'm grateful that people are willing to take that job. It's not for the weak.

[TX-RAT]

49. Pretty common around here.

This is a very unfriendly place for Peace Officers.
One of the reasons I've almost quit posting. Just get tired of being attacked by people that don't have a clue what Peace Officers go through on a daily basis.

I've always wanted to ask those who cuss and berate us if they would be willing to risk their life, for someone they've never meet.
Peace Officers do it daily.
The 3 deputy's in Fla were a prime example.

[makhno]

54. Pay no mind

There's enough hostility to go around no matter what your point of view or background is. Tis the nature of the medium. :)

[thecai]

56. Peace Officers

Are not always peaceful or peace makers. Too many are too trigger-happy. I feel that upright LE are heroes, and I commend their courage and hard work upholding the law. But we are not safe having trigger-happy officers pumping teen-agers full of bullets. The LE that cannot handle the risks and responsibilities, nor use good judgement in an emergency, may not be qualified for the job.
And since you asked, I risk my life for others ANY day, for free. And I'm unarmed.

[shawn703]

60. Barely educated?

Maybe it's different in Los Angeles, but around here you need to have at least an Associate's degree. A Bachelor's in Criminal Justice is pretty common.

[thecai]

17. Shoot To Kill?

Police cars are equipped with huge black bumper guards for protection and for "nudging" other cars over. I was plowed off a hiway by a car over twice the size of my car, but I would not have wanted to SHOOT the guy.
I believe LE are becoming too hostile, abusive, and trigger-happy.

[saigon68]

33. If He was Black --- its OK

Those guys are dangerous don't you know.

Ever hear of the Watts riots 1965 ?

The cops haven't changed much at all since then.

They have a motto you know when they shoot someone !!!


"If he's Brown---He's Down"

[Conservativesux]

50. Just another Amadou Diallo shooting. Heck he was only a Black Man...

..No need to worry folks, his life didnt count either cause' he lived in the "Hood". x(

Another justifiable shooting my @$$!

[lumpy]

9. Fired ten rounds ?

x

[mudderfudder77]

11. Officers are trained

in situation where deadly force is warranted, to empty their weapon. If he did aim the car at a cruiser and attempted to ram them, then I can see deadly force being justified.

[Rex]

20. He shouldn't have backed into their cruiser.

Before I get flamed - I agree that they used unnecessary force (there should be a full hearing into the matter), but I also know that when you threaten (or appear to threaten) a law enforcement officer, they will respond with deadly force. The vehicle was a weapon and the cops decided to go Rambo on it. Happens in Iraq all the time (and another reason why I believe we are living in a police state).

Why couldn't they just shoot the tires or put down road spikes? Not enough time?

[Blue_Tires]

21. far be it from me to defend the LAPD

but by regular police standards, this is a justified shoot....over the years there have been dozens of similar cases (even a couple in my hometown of Virginia Beach) where someone has aimed a moving car at a cop (or group of cops) and they open fire....IMO, the only thing that makes this story different is the fact that it's a 13-y/o 'gifted' youth...

tragic all around, but ultimately, the victim should have known better...I'm black, and ever since i was 10, my parents drilled into me exactly what to do and how to act when around police, so there's no 'misinterpretation of intentions'...when I was 15, i was drilled on how to act if ever in a traffic stop (incidentally, i've never stolen a car before)

[Bonobo]

22. Look, police work for the citizens. If this is SOP, than SOP sucks. eom

[MasonJar]

24. Magnet schools in Louisville have certain areas that the school

emphasizes even while teaching core curriculum. For example, my school has 4 magnets: Marine ROTC, sports medicine, marketing, and communications. The communications dept., for instance, has a reciprocal agreement with Western Ky. University. The ROTC drill teams usually win national competitions (our women's team has won 4 or 5 years in a row.) Etc.

[GetTheRightVote]

26. The death of the car stealing youth is not right, justice should be done

The police officer must face the court just like we would in a similiar situation. They must know that they are not above the law.

:kick:

[The Blue Knight]

27. The kid stole his car, and aimed it at an officer

If this was a 30 year old guy, nobody would've flinched. If the kid is mature enough to make adult-decisions---then he's mature enough to hand adult-like consequences.

[thecai]

28. You Sure About That

Officer Blue Knight?
The guy who plowed me off a hiway was old, and white, and the Trooper refused to investigate in spite of witnesses accounts and cooperation.
But I still would not have wanted that H&R driver to get shot and killed.
Too many LE are abusing their power and authority.

[Conservativesux]

63. I couldnt agree more! The motto these days is shoot first, ask questions

....Later.

This straight from the mouth of a police cadet, back as a soldier in Iraq, not three days ago!

This is what they are teaching these rookies, people.

They call it "officer safety".

Like the public doesn't deserve any safety from out-of-control, trigger-happy police?

Bottom line: Get used to more shootings like this one, folks!

[Conservativesux]

31. Amen to that !! The cop that opened fire without cause needs to go to jail

[livinginphotographs]

35. If I accidentally run someone over,

I get charged with manslaughter.

If this cop was wrong in shooting this kid, he gets off.

How's that for fair?

[Skeptic_All]

47. If it were an accident which did not

involve you changing a CD in your stereo while tying your shoe and drinking a cup of coffee, I dare say it would be next to impossible to charge you with any criminal wrong-doing.

If it turns out this officer violated departmental procedures and/or the law of California, he will be accorded the punishment deemed appropriate by either the department, the state or both. As police officers, we understand this ain't James Bond stuff and carrying a badge is NOT a license to kill.

[livinginphotographs]

48. If he "violated procedure,"

he doesn't deserve to just be fired. He deserves to serve time.

Just like if I kill someone because I "violated" the correct "procedure" of driving, I get ten years for manslaughter.

I am definitely withholding judgment, seeing as I wasn't there. But all too often, when cops act with negligence that ends up with someone dead, they get fired. Hardly a just punishment, IMO.

[Conservativesux]

62. I'll believe it when I see this coward handcuffed and sent to prison....

.....and not one second before !

[Athame]

29. Here's another POV

The article from officer.com gives one side, here's another.
http://www.kirotv.com/news/4181055/detail.html

L.A. Cops Rush Policy Change After Teen Shot
Mayor Demands 'Swift, Thorough' Investigation

POSTED: 2:12 pm EST February 9, 2005
UPDATED: 3:04 pm EST February 9, 2005

LOS ANGELES -- The Los Angeles Police Department is scrambling to change its policy after the shooting of a 13-year-old boy by police Sunday.

Mayor James Hahn said he's angry and frustrated over the shooting and is demanding that the police department revise its policy governing when officers can fire on moving vehicles.

The boy, Devin Brown, who was black, was shot repeatedly after he led police on a short pursuit that ended when he tried to back into a police cruiser.

Many activists and residents of South Los Angeles have decried the shooting as the latest example of what they called a pattern of police abuse of blacks.
<snip>

Regardless of the right or wrong of this matter, the shooting of Devin Brown is a fuse that has just been lit. I have been listening to angry meetings on Pacifica radio in LA. The tensions are hot, much closer to the edge than the articles I have seen in any paper are letting on.

[truthisfreedom]

34. anyone, no matter what they are guilty of, has a right to live long enough

to face trial. too much about modern police policy is wrong-headed.

[LinuxInsurgent]

38. LAPD, Young Black Male Dead

'Nuff said.

[BiggJawn]

39. It would be ruled a "Good Shoot" in my town...

"He attempted to strike the officers with his vehicle"

That's a Instant Death Sentence in this part of Indiana.
What consititutes "atempting to strike"?

Driving in the general direction of the Fuzz...

[Mikimouse]

41. The Fuzz? You must be one of 'us'!

I haven't heard that term in many years and I am still laughing. Thanks!

[BiggJawn]

43. Who is "Us"?

I know I'm not one of "them"....

[Mikimouse]

59. A 60s free wheeling type...

:hippie:

[progressivebydesign]

44. But.. why don't these crowds protest when hundreds of youth are shot..

.. in L.A. by fellow citizens in gang violence? I feel awfully for the child who was shot. I have a 13 year old. but SHE knows that you can't steal cars, and lead police on chases. She understands that she will likely be shot if she does things like that. This boy was obviously intelligent... I can't comprehend why people get outraged on things like this. Did the police know he was unarmed? No.

I'm certain this thread will be full of 'cops are pig' type statements, etc. ANd a few brave DUers will say that if you commit a crime like that, and you threaten the police (with the car), you're open to being shot. Regardless of your age. My 13 year old is taller than me, and looks like an adult in the car...

[lala_rawraw]

46. 6 Year Old...

In Florida had some fun with tasers and cops. A 6 year old child!!!

[gopsucks]

52. well...

the world could use a few less car stealing teenagers

[Gaben]

53. Cops shooting unarmed motorists

Indeed, especially ones dumb enough to ram cop cars. My mom's a lawyer, we've had this discussion before when a florida attourney general tried to try a cop for homicide in a similar circumstance. If someone drives at a cop, and in course cause damage to bystanders, property, or police equipment, its deemed reasonable to presume that the suspect will not stop and is intending to use deadly force on the officers, who will return force in kind.

The speed with which the average handgun user, let alone a trained and qualified officer, could rattle off 8 rounds compared to how long it would take to notice a change in the suspects course and disengage firing has also been shown to be too quick to judge against many times.

[JimmyJazz]

58. Mmmmh - funny how just a few posts ago,

your mom was in law school graduating in '06 - am I missing something?

[makhno]

57. Don't back-up a stolen vehicle into cops

It's not as if the kid was executed in his own car during a routine traffic stop.

[monobrau]

64. Play like a gangsta, die like one

As soon as some scumbag steals my car, it's shoot to kill. I don't care how old you are, as soon as you are behind the wheel running from the cops, you are a lethal weapon. You want to play the part of a big man, then take the consequences. And if you take my shit or break into my house, you are dead, end of story.

[thecai]

65. Cops Favorite Expression

"scum bags", (and now the vocabulary grows to include ghettoese). What a trigger-happy person you are, monobrau.
I'll tell you big, bad cops something, if my car gets stolen or someone "takes my shit" DO NOT shoot the thief, even if he is a "gangsta". If he backs the car into your car, BACK UP and shoot the tires. Especially if the perp is a mere CHILD. On second thought, I'd rather not even call a cop for help anymore.
Obviously, the police department needs to retrain for emergencies, and eliminate the hostile, hateful, trigger-happy officers.

[Barkley]

66. LAPD Does Treats White Residents Better

In November, I participated in an anti-war demonstration in Hollywood.

The demonstration attracted about 1,000 people who gathered at the
corner of Hollywood and Highland at 12:00 noon and marched to an Army recruiting station on Sunset and La Brea. The crowd was racially diverse but mostly white.

When we arrived at Sunset and La Brea about 75 demonstrators entered the strip mall area where the recruiting station was located -- which is on private property

I chose to stay out of strip malls parking lot knowing that marchers would get arrested for trespassing etc.

Soon thereafter about 70 LAPD officers showed up in full riot gear. Evidently some object was thrown at the police officers and four people got arrested.

The head LAPD officer addressed the remaining protestors with a megaphone saying something to the effect:

‘You can stay here on the streets for another 2 hours but you cannot
break the law by entering the strip mall and throwing articles at the
police.’

‘…throwing articles at the police’!?!?!?!?!?!

If this incident had been in South Central L.A. and those offending protestors had been Blacks or Latinos, they would have been shot dead-- Falluja style!

‘Stay two more hours ...’

Blacks and Latinos would have gotten two minuets to immediately disperse or face arrest.

If this incident had been in South Central L.A. the LAPD would have showed up on horseback and they would have done everything in their power to incite a race riot.

At any rate, I dressed up as the infamous hooded Abu Ghraib prisoner that was forced to stand on a carton for hours with electrical wires connected to his body. U.S. prison guards erroneously told the Iraqi prisoner that he would be electrocuted if he stepped off the box.

Instead of wires I had a plunger (signifying the NYC police brutality) in one hand and a flashlight (signifying the LAPD police brutality) in the other hand and a sign hanging around my neck that read:

"Stand against RACISM at home and abroad"

The Black and Latino spectators understood my message immediately, whites required an explanation.

[thecai]

68. That's True....

...Although in Washington State, the racism extends to whites who have black friends.
I agree... "Stand Against RACISM at Home and Abroad". And I always say, "Unite 2 Fight Against Injustice and Corruption".