U.S. Scientists Say They Are Told to Alter Findings -LAT

[Rose Siding]

More than 200 scientists employed by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service say they have been directed to alter official findings to lessen protections for plants and animals, a survey released Wednesday says.

The survey of the agency's scientific staff of 1,400 had a 30% response rate and was conducted jointly by the Union of Concerned Scientists and Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility.

A division of the Department of the Interior, the Fish and Wildlife Service is charged with determining which animals and plants should be placed on the endangered species list and designating areas where such species need to be protected.

More than half of the biologists and other researchers who responded to the survey said they knew of cases in which commercial interests, including timber, grazing, development and energy companies, had applied political pressure to reverse scientific conclusions deemed harmful to their business.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-scientists10feb10,0,4954654.story?coll=la-home-nation

[Moderator]

1. Kick

[petron]

2. Why am I not surprised?

Telltale signs all over the place, if you are paying attention.

Ugg...I hate Bush&Co? This sounds like the same BS tactics they used for "global warming"...er...I mean "climate change". Yea, that's it.

<sarcasm>
And oh yea those plants and animals can defend themselves, we, as humans, shouldn't be bothered with such silly things.
</sarcasm>

[DBoon]

3. Scientists are part of the "reality based community"

They study what is there, and attempt to derive truthful conclusions.

Neocons "make" reality. Through force of will and instruments of power they "change reality" to fit their goals.

This is actually an old idea. Orwell, 1984:

O'Brien silenced him by a movement of his hand. 'We control matter because we control the mind. Reality is inside the skull. You will learn by degrees, Winston. There is nothing that we could not do. Invisibility, levitation -- anything. I could float off this floor like a soap bubble if I wish to. I do not wish to, because the Party does not wish it. You must get rid of those nineteenth-century ideas about the laws of Nature. We make the laws of Nature.'

[ixion]

13. ah, but haven't you heard? Those of us who question are divorced

from reality. :eyes:

[kypper]

25. Terrorist! *NT*

[MARALE]

4. This is important that people know this

We are ruining our planet and nobody seems to care. How did we get to be such a selfish society?

[Just Me]

29. To me, the importance is that this administration is hiding facts,...

,...from the people.

:mad:

[Undercover Owl]

41. more than that

the administration is not only hiding facts, it's fabricating facts.
LYING. About EVERYTHING.

[ClintonTyree]

5. More proof that we are living in a ......................

totalitarian dictatorship. Science, news, EVERYTHING must be scoured by the regime before the information is distributed to the public. Yet the average American snoozes away as their country is quickly pulled out from under them. The ignorantly blissful public needs to WAKE THE FUCK UP before this is irreversible.

[callous taoboy]

21. Pipe down you-

I'm trying to listen to Fox.

[librechik]

6. "changing the facts to fit the policies" is the Bush Doctrine

in a nutshell--would make a good billboard too

These criminals must go

[Thor_MN]

31. From childhood on...

maybe that's not really accurate, since he's never grown up, but I recall that Babs has stated that * as oldest cousin would change the rules of the game when he wasn't winning. Seems that the little ass learned to cheat at a tender age and has been doing it ever since.

[xchrom]

7. how shocking!

eh, not so much.
the corporatists hate science -- cuts into rvenues they don't know how to make with real hard work.

to me, this is stealing. honest to god theft.
they couldn't make their money by following the rules -- so they got the rules bent.

[Straight Shooter]

8. Why do Republicans hate the Earth?

:nuke:

[doubleplusgood]

10. better: Why do Republicans hate God

...and His Creation ?

[Delphinus]

16. That's an excellent question!

One that I've never been able to figure out.

It's always amazed me that those who cling so stridently to the bible as their way to walk through life will let things like taking care of the earth fall by the wayside.

[centristo]

22. they don't hate the earth

no more than a master hates his slave. They are indifferent to its suffering. As long as the land is able to sustain us and provide us resources for industry the Republicans are happy. Republican policies are designed to be of minimal protection, just enough to not kill everyone (read: customers and investors) and avoid class action lawsuits, which hurt profits.

[Wrinkle_In_Time]

27. Excellent insight, centristo...

...and in case no-one else has said it yet (which is unlikely, since there are many polite people here) welcome to DU!

{On Edit} Can someone help me out with locating a cartoon that is related to this topic? It was a single panel (B&W) showing a laboratory. A hooded, monk-like figure is sweeping test-tubes and other equipment off the bench and onto the floor. Two scientists observe this. One says to the other something like: "Well, he said he was The President's new science advisor". I remember seeing it sometime in the last 2-3 years, but I can't remember where and I haven't been able to find it. Anyone?

[0rganism]

24. It's one of the dominionist methods for hastening the return of Jesus

When the last tree is cut down, Jesus will return to lead the faithful into paradise. Get it?

Here's what former Interior Secretary James G. Watt (1981-1983) had to say about the job:

"That is the delicate balance the Secretary of the Interior must have -- to be steward for the natural resources for this generation as well as future generations. I do not know how many future generations we can count on before the Lord returns." (Sec. Watt's testimony to Congress)

Like so very many devout republicans, he left office with a cloud of felony indictments, but his legacy endures to this day.

[leftofthedial]

9. we are headed over the cliff

and the theo, neocon death cult wack jobs are at the wheel

[bobthedrummer]

11. The global warming and human influence "debate" is another example of

this administrations disregard for real science and ethics. Meanwhile polar bears are running for their lives as the broken ice goes into the sea. How's your weather been this winter? Got chemtrails?

[MadisonRush]

19. Am I the only one who looks up in Minneapolis?

There was a big X in the sky today with mare trails. I thought we were supposed to have sunny skies today, but instead it turned cloudy. And why is the snow falling everywhere but here? Texas? Snow...Arizona, snow...New Mexico, snow....Minneapolis? No snow.

[GHOSTDANCER]

20. I've been noticing a lot of strange things especially after the tsunami.

I work outside around plants and have never seen a plants bloom this early in the year. I just read that in the UK bears, bees and other hibernating animals are waking up which is way to soon.
I know it sounds like a got a tin foil hat on but I think this planet is gonna change someday soon.

[Merope215]

26. What *are* chemtrails?

Someone mentioned them yesterday, so I Googled it just to see what would happen, but I didn't come across anything that looked even the slightest bit credible (I didn't spend that much time looking, so maybe that's why, but it was all something about a global Illuminati-linked plot to reverse global warming with an underground bunker, and Monsanto was involved, or something). Would one of you please explain the "chemtrails" thing to me? I'm not sniping - I really would like to know. Thanks!

[MadisonRush]

28. You know, I'm not trying to start anything here...

I've been lurking here for about 3 years, and have learned a lot. I've also found other websites that talk about what's going on with the weather and the climate. But the subject of chemtrails is so murky I don't know what to believe. I first came across it when someone was talking about Kucinich and his bill to ban space weapons & chemtrails. I know some good DU'er can help me with this. I'm drawing a blank right now. Anyway, the short of it is, I did some looking into it too, and now I've read so many crazy things that I don't know what to think. But I did learn to start looking up, and I've noticed the lines, and then the clouds, and then the lack of precipitation, and it makes me wonder...and think....and wonder again why more people aren't noticing. I see it happen every day it starts out sunny...

[sam sarrha]

40. my mother called me to see "contrails" that spread WAY out and Raining

long wisps all along their length all the way across the sky.. and we are not in a flight path. the long wide fluffy contrails..wider than the length of you hand held vertically at arms length at a 45* angle from wrist to finger tip.. the contrails were very dense like clouds and were criss crossed.

[Robert Oak]

12. when your science is corrupted, you society is in decay n/t

[donsu]

14. agree - wish they would give us a list of what was suppressed or

changed so we could work on getting the real reports out.

[bling bling]

15. I posted a related comment last night on another thread about the MSM:

"The MSM has been slowly and carefuly infiltrated by the GOP who pull strings to get "their" people jobs.

Similarly, they take any conservative who has a relatively high profile and pull strings to get them either in the media as a "pundit" or in the government.

How many conservative celebreties are there? Not many. But anytime a celebrety voices that he/she is conservative, suddenly they're invited to either host a political talk-show, become a politician, or speak at a Republican function.

These very real tactics are a very real part of the GOP strategic formula.

No doubt there are also strings are being pulled by the GOP for "their" teachers, judges, and scientists to fill key positions where ever possible.

It seems simplistic, but I've found a very trustworthy method to figuring out what the GOP is up to. All you have to do is listen to them. Whatever they are whining and complaining about "liberals" doing, is EXACTLY what they themselves are guilty of - i.e. nation building, biased media, big government, deficits, government spending, etc. etc. etc.."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3079980&mesg_id=3084100

So, we can only hope the good scientists and whistleblowers continue to outnumber the coerced, GOP placed bad scientists for at least another four years.

[tom_paine]

17. This is the identical strategy of the Afrikaener Broederbund

when they took over their country from the "Liberal British" to create their Bushevik Paradise.

The EXACT strategy.

It worked as well back then as it does today.

[Roland99]

18. My email to Mitch Snow

Dear Mr. Snow.

Your all but dismissing the new survey showing Fish and Wildlife scientists being pressured to change their findings to be more favorable to businesses belies your true loyalties. The Bush administration has shown its disdain of protecting our environment in favor of making corporations more profitable.

I guess you're more interested in keeping campaign coffers full instead of being sure our wildlife are protected.

Disappointingly yours,



Contact him at:
[e-mail]
Washington Office - External Affairs at [phone]

[Anakin Skywalker]

23. Admin Trying to Alter Findings.

And some joe schmoes still say this admin isn't fascist. It creeps slowly, little by little, mmmkay?

[LinuxInsurgent]

30. propaganda...

more lying..more government LYING to the American people...when you alter results that are needed to make sound decisions...you are LYING to the American public...

I'm putting this on my blog

[truthpusher]

32. Scientists say they often censor themselves to avoid controversy

http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2930575

Scientists say they often censor themselves to avoid controversy

ANN ARBOR, Mich. Some scientists say they're thinking twice about doing or reporting on certain research.

They say it's a response to political and social controversy, as well as legal restrictions.

University of Michigan researcher Joanne Kempner says it appears that controversy shapes what scientists study and how they do it.

Kempner and colleagues interviewed 41 scientists engaged in a variety of studies.

Half said they felt constrained by formal limits, but even more said they were affected by informal rules on what and how studies can be done.

story:
http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2930575

[AuntiBush]

33. I don't know whether to laugh, or cry.

With respects to the Scientists whom have tried to get the word out about Global Warming, I think I'll opt for the latter and just cry. The RePuks don't care, nor their fearful followers.

[DIKB]

34. Let's see.

A number of scientists and scholars have been KILLED over the years for revealing what wasn't popular. I seriously doubt that the right wing will make you take Hemlock for revealing the truth about a study.

Hell they just IGNORE all reports on Global Warming, so who cares if your ideas aren't popular, they'll get someone who can be bought to say the opposite.

Get the truth out there for those who want to know. Maybe we can help some, even if the banshees on the right choose to live in oblivion.

There is a certain satisfaction to be had in saying, "I Told You So."

[htuttle]

35. Where's Giordano Bruno when you need him?

'Course, he'd probably suffer a similar fate nowdays...

[Lindacooks]

36. Here's a great quote from Carl Sagan:

"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion."

[depakid]

37. Scientists censor themselves alright

It's called "academic publishing." :grr:

These bastards extort exhorbitant rates from Univeristies to access peer reviewed journals online- and frequently place one year "embargos" on the articles-

Even on matters of major public interest that it would be in their best interests to have everyone see. Like this particular article....

[Igel]

38. Why would anybody thing differently?

Every academic is at the mercy of his peers and dean for things like grants, publications, merit pay increases, promotions, invited talks, and conference presentations.

Freedom is seldom absolute.

[CindyDale]

39. There's the case of the dead microbiologists:

Washington,DC -
While the so-called more reputable press has been busy reporting the details of the anthrax scare, TheRealTruth has learned that in a secret internal report, the Federal Bureau of Investigation has raised concerns about the mysterious deaths of at least a dozen well-known microbiologists. A copy of the report was given to TheRealTruth by a source inside the FBI who must remain anonymous for obvious reasons.

http://www.therealtruth.us/microbiologists.html

among other things.

Also, Dr. Thomas Butler was arrested after he reported vials of plague bacilli were missing.

[donheld]

42. It seems our government likes lies better than facts.

The earth really is flat. :eyes: