WP: Tighter Bankruptcy Law Favored

[kskiska]

Bills Making It Harder to Erase Debt Set to Clear Congress

Republican leaders in Congress began clearing the way yesterday for swift passage of legislation backed by the credit card industry and opposed by consumer groups that would make it harder for consumers to wipe out debt through bankruptcy.

Congress has tried repeatedly in recent years to pass similar legislation in what would be the most significant change in bankruptcy law in more than a quarter of a century. Twice in the last seven years, bankruptcy bills have passed both the House and Senate, only to face ultimate defeat. In one case, President Clinton refused to sign the legislation, saying it was unfair to consumers. In 2002, House Republicans initially backed the bill but then voted it down after an amendment was attached that sought to prevent individuals from using bankruptcy to shield them from fines imposed for illegal antiabortion protests.

Now two nearly identical bills have been introduced in Congress in the last week that are essentially the same as what House and Senate negotiators worked out in the last Congress, but lacking the controversial abortion amendment. The absence of the amendment, plus the Republican leadership's decision to begin deliberation now, early in the legislative cycle, has industry officials and lawmakers hoping a bill can become law within weeks.

"The timing of bringing it up now, that's a critical difference," said Edward L. Yingling of the American Bankers Association. The Republican majority in Congress has had the votes to overcome opposition but until now lacked time to combat the procedural delays opponents have used to stall the legislation, he said.

more…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A15399-2005Feb10.html

[liberalhistorian]

1. They have GOT to make an exception

for medical debts, that's a MUST! More than half of all bankrupties are filed due to medical debts and they're filed by middle-class families and not the "shiftless poor" that these repuke idiots believe.

It's absolutely sickening that the same lawmakers who receive the best health insurance in the country, courtesy of the taxpayers (many of whom do NOT have insurance but are paying for their legislator's insurance), are sticking it to people who are faced with overwhelming medical debt due to cancer or other serious illness and who do NOT have the same luxurious health insurance. We MUST make sure they make an exception for medical debt! This will simply kill us if they don't.

[depakid]

9. Dream on....

This is a massive giveaway to the credit card companies- and sellout DEMS like Hillary will support it, just like last time- even though these companies give oberwhelmingly to the Republican Party.

PS: the guy from North Carolina, who grew up the poor millworker's son also supported this egregious legislation last go around.

And people wonder why Dems can't get elected....

[saigon68]

18. You are right Lieberman will have his tongue up the ass

Of every Bank in Amerika. He'll vote for this piece of Crap for sure.

[liberalhistorian]

29. Well, then, we must hold

the Dems feet to the fire on this and let them know that we will hold them accountable if they vote for this. Once this goes through and people start experiencing what being under the heel of the repukes is really like, I think you're going to see a major uprising against any politician who supports repuke policies.

[tanyev]

39. I was very surprised when I read

The Two-Income Trap by Elizabeth Warren. She makes a great case about how the relaxing of credit requirements is a big factor in our nation's debt problem. I was surprised when Ms. Warren related how she had the opportunity to discuss her concerns with Hillary Clinton. The author was very impressed with Hillary and felt like she had finally managed to reach one lawmaker who understood the issues at stake.

But when the bill in question came up for vote, Hillary voted the way the credit card companies wanted. The author was quite disappointed. I was too.

[suziedemocrat]

67. IMHO Hillary is out for Hillary - she doesn't care about anyone.

She is NOT a public servant at all. He husband DID seem like he really wanted to make the world a better place. She just seems ambitious. I really don't like her.

[OneBlueSky]

72. if Hillary supports this, she's lost my vote forever . . .

because it will be proof positive that she's in the back pocket of the banks and credit card companies . . . when she runs for re-election, I'll vote for a third party candidate . . . if she runs in the Democratic primaries, I'll oppose her loudly and often . . . and if she manages to get the Democratic nomination (which I don't think she has a snowball's chance in hell of doing), I'll vote Green . . .

if there was ever an issue that clearly pits the people against the corporatocracy, this is it . . . and any Democrats who vote with big business will have their names permanently inscribed on my own personal shit list . . . you have to draw the line somewhere, and for me this is where it's drawn . . .

[barb162]

36. you got that straight. Let's face it ,there are some truly shiftless

fuckoffs out there who manipulate the system but most people who declare bankruptcy wish like hell they didn't have to do it. I wish there was some way to go after the ones who purposely buy a lot of stuff and then declare bankruptcy; I know a person who did it twice with the INTENTION of doing it and I got into tremendous arguments with her about it. She felt entitled to do it and then she did it. ARGGHHH!!!! (that was a primal scream)

But for many many people who have to declare bankruptcy because of medical bills and true emergencies of other kinds all I can say is there but for the grace of GOd go I. Many of us are one step away from bankruptcy, job loss, etc. I wish there was some way to strengthen the laws against the bad apples who manipulate the system instead of hurting everyone. Many people are losing their houses now because of job cuts, what with all the jobs Bush is creating in this so-called economic recovery.

[Digit]

49. My thoughts.....

You have to list who your creditors are to file, am I right?

If it is due to skyrocketing medical bills, it is a misfortune and you should not be blamed.
It is difficult enough dealing with a medical crisis.
Are we going to put people on the streets? You betcha! Will this policy trigger suicides, sadly, I can imagine it will.
I believe I have heard that bankruptcy will not allow to avoid medical expenses. Our poor seniors will be cast aside. Families will be torn apart. That is deplorable in a country such as America.

If your bankrupcy is due to overspending on retail goods, shame on you...you need to live within your means.

It is a travesty that we have to pay for top medical treatment of our elected (and unelected) officials and their families while we are on our own to deal with serious medical bills.
They are usually wealthy and since we have to tighten our belts, they should as well.

[geniph]

40. Bankruptcies due to medical bills went up 2,200% in 20 years

while bankruptcies due to other causes went up 360%. And those other causes include folks who had health insurance, but still couldn't pay their bills because of medical problems - you lose your paycheck because you're sick, you lose your house too. Yeah, that's a "compassionate conservative" all right - one who says, OK, you got cancer - now pay the hospital $50,000 or live in a cardboard box on the street until you die. No filing bankruptcy and hoping to keep your house anymore - get the hell out on the street and DIE already.

I hate that mindset, I truly hate it.

[AP]

2. Conservative strict father moralists are going to love this, even as they

have to spend the rest of their lives as indentured servants to their credit card companies.

Also watch credit card companies jack up credit limits now that they'll ALWAYS get their money.

[The Zanti Regent]

62. and WHO voted for this bill in the last Congress????

One John Edwards, CORRECT?

Wow, he sure cares about people who struggle for a living, doesn't he?

[AP]

75. Making legislation is like making sausage.

What came out at the end of tha vote was a bill that didn't become law.

Next time I get a chance, I'll ask Edwards why he vote for it.

[merwin]

3. Why do conservatives hate America?

[Tux]

6. I would say

It but I'd be banned.

Only 49% of Americans love this nation. Poll last Nov proved it.

[GetTheRightVote]

4. This is a crime against the consumer

:kick:

[asjr]

5. Yes, it will effect all of us. The Republicans are so blatant

now. They have been eroding our "freedoms" inch by inch and now they crow about it. They will now take so much away we will not have recourse to any laws. What can we do? Letters and e-mails to our congress people are left unread. There have been so many illegal things they have done. How much more can America take? All the credit card companies will up the interest rates probably up to 40% or more because we can't stop them. We are definitely going back to the 1930s.

[NVMojo]

7. and it will impact repukes and dems alike ...the wailing of the poor

will eventually reach beyond a scream.

[SoCalDem]

8. How to CRASH the economy...BIGTIME

Here's what will happen:

MILLIONS of people have re-fied their houses over and over, and have no equity left.. They have paid off credit card debt (unsecured) with home equity, turning unsecured debt into debt tied to their HOMES...30 years' worth for most..

Interest rates are going to go UP.. that's the only way they CAN go..

When this BK bill looks like it's a sure thing, MILLIONS of people will rush out to get rid of the CC debt they still have, while they still can, and WHAM....there goes a TON of written off bad debt.. Credit will tighten like it was in the 80's and we all know how much fun that decade was..:puke:

I hope everyone enjoys their spin in the Retro time machine :(
(2nd time through the 80's for us.. SUCKS !!!)

[barb162]

42. please explain something here, this part

"MILLIONS of people will rush out to get rid of the CC debt they still have, while they still can"

are you meaning they will declare bankruptcy now before the new law comes in

what do you mean by credit tightening...stricter underwriting?

By the way I was there in the 80s but I am trying to figure out here if you are meaning what I am thinking or not

[SoCalDem]

46. Those two things are exactly what I meant

And when people have no more credit cards and it's harder for people to GET credit, who's gonna buy all that plastic crap at Walmart??

I have a sneaky suspicion that the same people who are spending like there's no tomorrow (and on credit cards) will see this as their last chance to bail out..

If enough of them bail.... well.... look out below :(

[barb162]

47. except they are maybe too busy spending to be reading that the

bankruptcy laws are going to be tightened. Seriously, I worry most about the refinanced houses. when people kept getting those refi's I thought, okay, you're gonna max out the value on the houses and when you can't refi any more, then you'll need to get more credit cards and be paying the minimums each month at outrageous rates. I don't know how many people % wise who are really doing this and I have no feel for it either. And I have no feel at all for people who did refi's to pay off expensive credit card debt and then just stopped with the credit crap. Do you?

[SoCalDem]

48. My friend has ZERO equity in her house now

and after several rounds of refi-pay CC-refi again, she did decalre BK a few years back.. She has about as many CCs as before..just higher interest and lower limits:(

I was so disappointed I could cry..

She put down 35K on that house 10 yrs ago and only paid 99 for it.. It's "worth" $280K on the market today..

Her "boyfriend" conned her into paying of HIS car and credit card debt by cashing in HER IRA (it had almost $25K in it when she did it)..

and then the refi-binge started..

He's a gambler so it didn't take long for all her intitial downpayment and all the equity to be "dissolved"..

Now they are splitting up, and HER house will probably just go back to the bank, and she'll be hard pressed to even find a rental she can afford..

Right now "they" are paying $2000 a month on a 2 year interest-only loan, and when that term is "up" they will have to refi once again..

It makes me sick to see what has transpired.. She was so worried when she bought that house with her divorce settlement..

She would come over with her bills in-hand, so have me help her budget,.,She was scared that she couldn't manage on her own, and was "ripe for the picking"..

I fear what has happened to her, is happening all over the country:(

[barb162]

50. May I ask if the refi's were for "valid" stuff or just more & more junk

junk being stuff like the boyfriend's toys and gambling. What did she say to you when you told her to quit the refi's for the junk (as I imagine you did).

I have a sister-in-law like this who is draining my brother's 401K for my my niece's expensive private college bills. She should be in a much cheaper state school as she is not interested in school other than to goof off; she never takes more than 12 hours and stays out all night drinking. When my brother retires and there is nothing in that account, then she'll be screaming about that too. I also fear my brother may be losing his job but this doesn't stop my wild spender sister-in-law from spending her weekends at the shopping center buying endless amounts of crap. If my niece wants a $500 dress, $200 shoes,etc., princess gets it.

[SoCalDem]

54. She "loved" the bum, and believed him

and even put HIM on the deed (which increased their property taxes..prop 13) and now whenevr she suggested just selling the house and going their separate ways he said "you can't sell without MY signature"..so they live as hateful roommates, in a house that neither of them can afford to sell OR live in :cry:

and the bastard will move on when the "newest" re-fi has to be re-done...he probably has a "new" girlfriend in the wings already..

Their latest re-fi is one for the books.. They ended up with $17K cash out, and she still trusted him then.. On the DAY they got the check, he transferred $15K of it into HIS private account. She was livid, but there was nothing she could do about it since his name is on the house as well as hers.:grr:..

I hate it when "love" makes people stupid :(

She may end up living with US ..

[barb162]

55. whoa, so she gets 2000 bucks, I could cry with you

[ace2u_in_MD]

74. Yes, she can sell...

"you can't sell without MY signature"

Oh, yes she can. It is called a "Partition Lawsuit". Contact a real estate attorney for details. Of course, it may not be worth it if there is no equity, but if she stalls on the latest re-fi and files the partition lawsuit, she may be able to get some cash out of the sale.

[SoCalDem]

78. She's very depressed right now, and broke too

I wanted her to get a lawyer ages ago, and see if she could get him OFF her title..and of course out of her life too.. This man is a cagey guy, and knows exactly when to pounce.. When her son was killed in a car accident at 24, a few years back, her "boyfriend" had already started to leave, and she was resigned to it, but he waltzed back in and consoled her in her grief, and told her he loved her and was sorry..so ...well you know what happened..

It infuriated me when he did that (he never even LIKED her son), but she was in a bad place and he offered her a lifeline and she took it.

I try not to suggest too much, because this pair has a history of 10 years worth of squabbling and then getting back together..I manily listen and console her and only suggest things when she asks..

It kills me to see her taken advantage of..

[barb162]

51. I also meant to say , geez, she could have had 200 thousand in her

pocket if she would have played her cards right (280 less 99)

[SoCalDem]

53. More than THAT.. she put down 35.. she only owed 60 something

TEN years ago..:grr:

[depakid]

10. List of Democratic sellouts from the last time around:

Akaka (D-HI), Yea
Baucus (D-MT), Yea
Bayh (D-IN), Yea
Biden (D-DE), Yea
Bingaman (D-NM), Yea
Boxer (D-CA), Not Voting
Breaux (D-LA), Yea
Byrd (D-WV), Yea
Cantwell (D-WA), Yea
Carnahan (D-MO), Yea
Carper (D-DE), Yea
Cleland (D-GA), Yea
Clinton (D-NY), Yea this even though Bill veto'd it as president.
Conrad (D-ND), Yea
Daschle (D-SD), Yea
Dorgan (D-ND), Yea
Edwards (D-NC), Yea Mr. Poor son of a Millworker.
Feinstein (D-CA), Yea
Graham (D-FL), Yea
Hollings (D-SC), Yea
Inouye (D-HI), Yea
Johnson (D-SD), Yea
Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Landrieu (D-LA), Yea
Leahy (D-VT), Yea
Levin (D-MI), Yea
Lieberman (D-CT), Yea
Lincoln (D-AR), Yea
Mikulski (D-MD), Yea
Miller (D-GA), Yea
Murray (D-WA), Yea
Nelson (D-NE), Yea
Reid (D-NV), Yea
Schumer (D-NY), Yea
Stabenow (D-MI), Yea
Torricelli (D-NJ), Yea
Wyden (D-OR), Yea

All Republicans voted "yea"

[gulfcoastliberal]

44. Looks like Reid & Co will be ready to hand Bush his next victory

on a silver platter, with nary a peep. Proof things are getting worse every year. They have precious little, if any, decency nor principles left - only the mighty K St $ counts, even for dems.

This law will prove that.

[suziedemocrat]

64. Who voted against it? Kennedy? Kerry? The list of yea's is huge! nt

[lovuian]

11. I'm waiting for Debtor Prison to be built again!!!

Its ok for Enron or WorldCom but the individual lets screw him more!!!

[fasttense]

22. Yeah and workhouses

Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?

Credit card companies will give a card to my dog. They are not held accountable to who they give a card to, yet the consumer can't scream uncle when medical bills exceed his lifetime expected income.

Bah, humbug let the poor rot in prison.

[BlueInRed]

12. Even for those that meet the requirements, it will be harder

because they will have to file very detailed financial information just to prove they meet the requirements. Of course, this will make the legal fees go up for the very people who can't afford it at all.

[applegrove]

13. A draft by any other name never smelt so sweet! NOT

I mean exactly how willing to drive the truck through insurgents was that first American hostage? He had his wife's heart surgery to pay for.

[applegrove]

14. Isn't it up the the lending institution to assess credit risk accurately

Isn't it up to the lending institution to assess credit risk accurately before they start throwing the credit cars at you? I mean - shoddy assessment gets you shoddy returns.

Man these corporations are the most 'risk averse' bunch of wimps I have ever seen. Apparently it is not okay for American to share 'risk' in things like health care, retirement, unemployment any longer (or in the case of health care in the USA: ever)- but those corporations want a new "nanny state" directed at wiping their asses with regulations that baby them.

***holes!

[ArchTeryx]

73. Oh?

Veteran's health care is no panacea any more, either. Remember, it's due to be cut in the latest Bush budget. Send ya to war, patch you up and kick you out. No better then much of the rest of the middle class is getting these days.

[Robert Oak]

15. this is one to letter write your representatives on

check out Frontline's show on the credit card

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/

goes in depth on the incredible loan sharking practises of
credit cards...


so this would be a final straw...someone gets into trouble..
now their interest shoots up to 29% due to a late payment...

then of course the principle balloons up and they further can't make
the payments...

to have it law in the US they cannot escape the debt load...

even under these circumstances only 1% of all bankruptcies are due to
credit card debt...50% medical bills and pretty much other reasons
are lost of a job, health and divorce.

this is basically debtor's prison, part II.

[PA Democrat]

26. That Frontline show should be shown to every American before

they apply for a credit card. I was shocked to learn that the credit card company can up your interest rate if you are late paying any other loan, credit card and even your PHONE BILL! And they don't even have to notify you that they've increased your rate.

I think a consumer economics class where such information would be taught should be a required course for all high school students. But the credit card companies would fight this tooth and nail because they are making obscene profits by screwing unsuspecting and uninformed consumers.

[mbperrin]

58. I've been teaching this to my 12th grade economics students

for 3 years now. State regs say they MUST be taught credit regulations, altho I'm pretty sure this wasn't what they had in mind. (Shoulda spelled it out!)

[barb162]

37. it is fascinating that the credit card companies aren't forced by

Congress to reduce those 29% rates huh? They can go in for legislation to protect themselves and maybe Congress should add a rider that anything more than 5% over prime would be unlawful. Watch the fucking credit card companies scream about that.

[keopeli]

16. kick

[salin]

17. Two major points: 1) Does the bill do anything about predatory

lending practices, if not - (and it has not been addressed in the previous two times they tried to pass this), then essentially the big credit card biz will keep taking on BIG risk per granting credit where, in the past business practice would not grant the credit. Why do they get out of bearing the costs of their own business practices?

and 2) Isn't it ironic that the branch of government responsible for the BIGGEST deficits and quickest accumulation of debt in US history would be the branch to pass more draconian responses to individuals with debt? Isn't it grossly ironic that Bush's most recent SS rhetoric is starting to suggest that the US will default on the US Treasuries in the "lock box" of overpayments into SS (all those dollars WE pay in, but are not needed now to pay current beneficiaries that are invested in treasuries to be paid off to cover benefits in the future.

It isn't even funny anymore.

[Jacobin]

19. Hey, if you are wealthy and get in trouble, you need not despair

The way the thing is written, if you owe a WHOLE LOT OF MONEY compared to your income, you can still do a Chapter 7 and walk away from debt. Only if you are middle class or working poor will this mean you have to pay for five years and live on a 'subsistence level' income.

Horrid. Can't believe Hillary and Edwards voted for this crap.

[Jose Diablo]

20. These credit card companies and financial institutions sound

more and more like mob loan sharks. Could the corporations and government have been taken over by organized crime?

Could the War on Drugs actually have been a war on the American people to corrupt our various institutions? Where did all the drug profits go? I think the money bought the corporations using international investment bankers supplied with money from the laundered drug profits and theft from many pension plans.

I am beginning to believe the largest criminal enterprise in history is our government today. Cattle prods (TASERS) being used by police on people. Holding pens for political protesters. A permanent state of war. Suppression of the Bill of Rights and ignoring many parts of the Constitution. Corruption of elections. Military intrusion into civilian police and spying on citizens. Advocating torture by the highest levels within the government. Government propaganda spread by a so called free and independent press which is actually being paid from tax money.

I am sorry folks, but our country has been taken over. We have no recourse to laws, courts or even the vote to get it back.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

23. IMHO, it's much more like Big Business took over organized crime....

...they knew a good scam when they saw one.

[earthboundmisfit]

31. Many once-independent Credit Cards are actually CITIBANK now

I helped a friend with serious health problems file bankruptcy recently. As we gathered his creditors' names & addresses, I noticed several credit cards that used to be independent are now owned by CITIBANK. It's there in small print on the backs of the billings. I can't remember exactly but I THINK Sears & Phillips gasoline were a couple of them.
Do I remember correctly that in Fahrenheit 911 it was mentioned that Citibank was mainly owned by the SAUDIS? If you have credit cards, look on the back of the billings in the tiny-print details (not the address on the front where you send your payment). It would be interesting to see just how many are now under the Citi "umbrella".

[doodadem]

35. Citibank and Bank One

Oh great.......I just switched my business checking account over to Citibank.
I posted this in another discussion, and didn't get much response. I am waiting to hear back from Bank One, after sending them a blistering email. They just suddenly TRIPLED the % rate on my credit card, with no explanation, to almost 30%. Never missed a payment, have not been late. Although I did notice a few times that even though they showed a payment being received on time, they did not credit it until after the due date, and charged us a late fee. It's exactly those kinds of tactics that recently lost them a big class action suit in Illinois. Do a little web research--you'll find this is one of the main ways banks are now raking in bunches of money.
So now, if they're going to get away with this crap (it says in the fine print that they can change your rate at any time for no reason), they're not going to let people file bankruptcy, and they're going to severely limit class action suits (just passed)--what the hell are we supposed to do? No recourse, no way out. I predict a major rise (again) in suicide rates, spousal/kid abuse, and stress-related disease, etc.

[CoffeeCat]

79. My husband and I pd off all debt due to stuff like this...

...we grew worried during the first * administration: The skyrocketing nat'l debt, hatred of the poor/middle class, kow towing to corporations, etc. It was obvious that Iraq and the tax cuts for the rich, were the first steps to the govt "starving the beast."

We paid off both cars, all medical debts, all credit cards and we refinanced to a 15 yr fixed mortgage. We were planning on moving out of our $150k condo into a big house. Instead we're saving money, and trying to pay off the house because we anticipated that companies would only grow more abusive (cuz * allows it), and the middle class would only become more poor.

We were only making 50k when we paid off all of the debt--within 2 years. We followed Dave Ramsey's plan. Plus, I learned how to use "coupon", and our grocery bill for a family of 4 is less than $50 per week. I've got massive stockpiles of food, toiletries and paper products in the pantry and garage. Most of it I got for free/near free. I give a lot to charity, have sent some to Iraq and once a year I sell some of the stockpile in a garage sale. Last year, I made $1000, so the grocery bill is actually well below $50.

I saw the writing on the wall a few years ago--with regard to the economics and I think planning for dire circumstances is essential.

[dbt]

21. On the one hand, medical costs are driving half of bankruptcies.

On the other hand, CONgress wants to make it harder to file for bankruptcy. On the THIRD hand, it was EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVIL for Hitlery to try to do something about medical costs All Those Years Ago.

Shit O Goodness, you'd think the fix was in or something! Good thing "the government would never do anything to hurt us," innit?

:argh:
dbt

[Supersedeas]

27. Medical Costs driving Bankruptcies..so make it harder to file & do nothing

about the high costs of medical care.

Two birds with one stone.

[geniph]

41. It's far more than half

if you take into account all the people driven into bankruptcy who have health insurance, but are still unable to meet their other financial obligations because they've lost their jobs due to health problems.

No other industrialized nation has this problem. Guess why?

Three words: National Health Care.

[MikeG]

24. Its the ownership society. They will OWN us.

[tanyev]

25. Yeah, tighten the bankruptcy laws

because the real problem is irresponsible people spending money like drunken sailors even though they know there's not enough money coming in.

Oh wait, I just described our Republican controlled Congress. How can we tighten their bankruptcy laws?

[mudderfudder77]

28. Exactly

The Administration shouldn't be given a pass, but neither should citizens who spend their money and rack up credit debt like there are no consequences. Exceptions of course should be made for debt related to Medical Expenses.

[tanyev]

34. Actually, I was being a little sarcastic in my post.

I think that the percentage of incidents of bankruptcy caused merely by people living too high on the hog is probably quite small. Most often I suspect there has been a disruptive incident like loss of job or medical crisis. Since there are fewer and fewer agencies people can now turn to in a crisis, many use their credit cards in the hopes that they will be able to get back on their feet before the debt gets out of hand.

It is the height of hypocrisy for Republican lawmakers, who are busily gutting the safety net of social programs, to raise a hue and cry about the abuse of bankruptcy when they are the ones who are responsible for a)the crushing deficit our government has racked up and b)the deregulation of the banking and credit industries, allowing more and more credit to be given to people who would not have qualified for it 30 years ago.

Who cares if they cut unemployment benefits and health insurance? We now qualify for lots more credit! Wheeeeeee!!!

[barb162]

38. see my post 36. I believe there is some small % who do screw the

system as I knew one or two personally . However,I wish there were a way to come up with a tighter law aimed at them, the screwers/manipulators only, and not all the rest of consumers who are in true financial pain over job loss, medical bills, etc.

[Triana]

30. Just Grand...

...now all those people who go bankrupt due to medical problems / disasters / disease / accidents and their inability to pay the ridiculously expensive medical bills that result, will just be in even worse shape and be treated even MORE like criminals than they already are - all because they had the AUDACITY to become ill or have an accident or a disease.

If THIS isn't just a typically Repuke George bu$hit policy I don't know what is. Kick 'em while they're down and kick 'em again.

How bu$hlike. How Rovian. How REPUBLICAN.

Bastards.

[VegasWolf]

32. The poor and middle-class simply don't matter to this president.n/t

[adigal]

33. So what shall we do with them???

Debtor's prison, perhaps???

Dickens anyone?

[geniph]

43. The credit card companies CAUSED this problem

They started loosening credit card requirements years ago. When I was first applying for credit some 30 years ago, it actually wasn't that easy to get. You had to have an income, your debt-to-income ratio had to be fairly low, you had to have something in the way of assets, etc. Now they give credit cards with $5K or $10K limits to college students with NO income and no prospects of an income. Their lending practices are more and more predatory.

My husband's older brother is mentally retarded. Charlie cannot understand concepts like credit, amortization, or interest rates. He did not have a job, just a small income from SSDI. A credit card offer came in the mail, and his (very elderly and somewhat confused) mother helped him complete it. He got a credit card in the mail with a $5,000 limit. Now, neither he or his mother really quite understood what that meant. He thought it was some kind of gift or supplement check, like the IRS tax refunds he used to get when he was working, or his monthly SSDI check. He went out and bought a car when his died - not a fancy car, but a good used car that, unsurprisingly, the used car dealership priced at his credit limit once they figured out he was using a credit card. Then the bills started to come. He had no way to pay them. The account went into collection. He still had no way to pay them. The car was repossessed, but he was still being harassed by the credit collection agency. This confused and frightened him. Finally, my husband and their sister had to sit down and figure out how to get him filed for bankruptcy. It was the only way to get the lenders' attack dogs away from him. Even after he filed, the collectors continued to phone and visit, despite the law forbidding that after bankruptcy has been filed - they knew someone who didn't know his rights when they saw him.

Yeah, let's make it harder for people like that. What a good idea. </sarcasm> Let's not go after predatory lending practices, which cause this kind of thing in the first place. After all, the credit issuers are big campaign donors.

[suziedemocrat]

63. Don't worry -- There's always suicide.

"A consumers group has pointed an accusing finger at colleges and universities for allowing credit card companies to market their products to students on campus.

On Tuesday, the Consumer Federation of America (CFA) released the results of a study by Robert Manning, a sociology professor at Georgetown University. Manning interviewed 300 college students and surveyed 400 other students with a questionnaire about their use of credit cards. He concluded that a growing number of students are racking up huge debts on cards, forcing some students to reduce their course load or drop out altogether in order to work to pay off the cards. Manning says some students try to keep up a full class schedule while working long hours, resulting in mediocre grades. He claims some students are being denied employment after graduation due to negative credit reports stemming from maxed-out cards. In two extreme cases, credit card debt has been blamed for driving college students to suicide.

...more..."

http://www.nacs.org/news/061099-creditcards.asp

[thethinker]

45. Let's do something about this

Is it possible to do a "recall" on congressmen - like they did in California to the governor?

If possible, I think we should start a recall on every congressmen that is in the pockets of the credit card companies and vote for this bill.

We are just watching our country go down the tubes. They are destroying the constitution, social security, and our economy. We can just watch and feel helpless or we can figure out what to do about it.

This administration is evil but they can't do much with out the consent of congress which is rubber stamping their policies.

[Digit]

52. Yes, we need to do an email campaign

Although I personally am not needing to file bankruptcy, nor is my credit card debt in overload at this point, I can imagine others who ARE.
It can happen to any of us, to our parents, our children, our best friends, or our siblings.

Can someone compile a list of Congresspeople and Senators email addys to send a statement regarding our feelings on this?

[llmart]

56. I have very mixed feelings about this.....

Maybe that's because I know a lot of people who are living way beyond their means and take great pleasure in bragging about the "stuff" they have and keeping up with the Joneses. They need to learn that they don't need all that crap and they are making someone else rich while they're at it. How stupid can you get?

However, if your money problems are due to medical expenses, then there should be an exception.

[mbperrin]

57. Why not just go the whole way with what they really want?

"...help the poor and destitute:

``Are there no prisons?'' asked Scrooge.

``Plenty of prisons,'' said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.

``And the Union workhouses?'' demanded Scrooge. ``Are they still in operation?''

``They are. Still,'' returned the gentleman, `` I wish I could say they were not.''

``The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?'' said Scrooge.

``Both very busy, sir.''

``Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course,'' said Scrooge. ``I'm very glad to hear it.''

[depakid]

59. That would appear to be the Democratic "strategy"

although what you'll hear from constantly from the apologists on this site is "we need to choose our battles."

Seems to me that aside from a few judicial nominees (who Bush got around with recess appointments, there haven't been many battles "chosen."

Frankly, it's gotten to the point where I don't why anyone would want to vote for many Dems- I mean, who wants a coward to represent them?

[suziedemocrat]

65. If they want people to have money to pay their debts - why outsource?r

As an IT worker who has watched banks outsource their IT departments to India, I have no sympathy for them when they say people are declaring bankruptcy. If they cared about people having the money to pay their debts, they wouldn't out-source millions of jobs.

[distantearlywarning]

60. We saw this coming last year after Nov. 2nd

Before we got married in December, my husband filed for bankruptcy. His final hearing is next week. We did this because we were already starting to struggle with the overwhelming debt, and anticipated these laws coming soon, and wanted to make the break while we still could (although we weren't in complete trouble yet like many filers are). It was a precautionary measure, and one that we didn't take lightly. I lost sleep and worried for weeks over it, but after reading this article, I feel this vast sense of relief that we went ahead and did it. Like we got out just at the right time.

His credit is destroyed now, or will be shortly, but mine is very good (because he filed before marriage and PA isn't a community property state) and now we have no debt other than student loans in deferment. We may be a couple of the lucky ones who make it through what I believe is a coming depression (when combined with this legislation will probably totally drive many middle class and poorer Americans to total destitution).

By the way, his outstanding debt (over 35K) was primarily due to not one but 3 separate long term layoffs in a 5 year period in which we had to use credit to avoid being homeless. We both drive 10+ year old cars with no outstanding auto loans, had an extremely cheap wedding, have an apartment renting for less than 20% of our income, etc. We were making $1500 month minimum payments on the cards, and were managing to do because we are so frugal otherwise, but not getting ahead or saving money either. If interest rates were raised, we would probably have gone under in a month or two. We were not buying luxury items with credit, but rather necessary life expenses in the economic downturn after 9-11. I don't feel all that guilty about reneging on our debts.

[cosmicdot]

61. when do they change currency, etc.,to read: the U.S. of Corporate America?

Democrats voting with the Republicans are enabling the GOP/corporate/Ownership Society agenda.

I guess we could have a mass-filing of bankruptcy in protest.

[suziedemocrat]

66. Will this go into effect immediately after signed by Bush?

It looks like it takes effect the day it becomes law? That probably means if you haven't started bankruptcy already - it is too late.

[Psephos]

71. No, it would take effect 180 days after the bill is signed into law

Here's a link for the actual bill. The part about when it would take effect is at the very end.

http://www.law.unlv.edu/faculty/rlawless/bra-feb52005.pdf

[suziedemocrat]

76. Thank You Very Much for the information!!!

[hoi polloi]

68. Small Business

There are times when a small business experiences a loss of income that leads to closing the business. But, the bills continue. The business closes, but the owner is strapped with debt, often credit card debt that he borrowed to pay of suppliers, utilities, and others.
Often there are other people involved and bankrupcy would hurt family members and others thus making it impossible to do without ruining relationships of husbands and wives and other people that trusted in you.
In those cases, I have heard that some lawyers say, ok just don't pay.
Your heard me.
Rather than declaring bankrupcy, just don't pay the credit card whores.
In one way I can see it. When they charge you 30% interest (and they do) they are just as bad as you could ever be and there comes a time when retalilation is reasonable.
Most of these companies will just write you off as a business expense.
What do you think of this idea?

[Mountainman]

69. 9 out of ten businesses fail in the first year. Mine did. I paid back

what I borrowed. It took many years and selling my house but I did it. I don't have any sympathy because the debt is business related. Most people shouldn't try going into business. A debt is a debt be it personal or business related.

If you can't pay back what you borrowed and it is hurting your family and yourself, like forcing you not to have the basic necessities of life, then do what you must. But no sympathy from me because your business failed. That is not as catastrophic as a medical crisis I think. And I am also a person who has filed bankruptcy.

We put way to much stock in owing your own business in this country and we put small business owners on too high of a pedestal in my opinion.

[SoCalDem]

70. either way your credits is toast... why not make it legal and have some

peace of mind..?? I have never filed, but I know people who have, and they all said that the thing that made them most relieved was that the phone calls and letters stopped.

and with BK, I think they cannot come after you later on.. don';t know that for sure though :)

[SammyWinstonJack]

77. Bankruptcy is only for the rich

And taxes are only for the little people. This one screwed up Country. I remember listening to Sen Wellstone speaking out against this on the Senate floor in '02.