Eastwood Baffled by Attacks (Million Dollar Baby SPOILERS!!!!!)

[sonicx]

http://www.imdb.com/news/sb/2005-02-10/

Clint Eastwood has expressed bafflement over the partisan controversy that has developed over his Oscar-nominated Million Dollar Baby. Interviewed by New York Times media critic Frank Rich for his column in Sunday's edition, Eastwood indicated that he had not suspected that a scene in the film in which a paralyzed character is removed from life-support would be characterized as an endorsement of euthanasia by such conservative commentators as Rush Limbaugh, Michael Medved and Debbie Schlussel.

"What do you have to give these people to make them happy?" Eastwood, a former Republican mayor of Carmel, CA, remarked, noting that he had not considered "the political side of this" while making the film. "You used to be able to disagree with people and still be friends. Now you hear these talk shows, and everyone who believes differently from you is a moron and an idiot -- both on the right and the left." He pointed out that the film presents a heroine who is "willing to pull herself up by the bootstraps, to work hard and persevere no matter what" to realize her dream.

"That all sounds like Americana to me, like something out of Wendell Willkie," he told Rich. "And the villains in the movie include people who are participating in welfare fraud." Eastwood denied that efforts to give away the plot device in the film will wind up harming it, and Rich himself wrote: "My own experience is that knowing the ultimate direction of Million Dollar Baby ... only deepened my second viewing of it."

[Anakin Skywalker]

1. Fundies are so agenda-driven!

Those talking heads mentioned above just love to dig into everything and find hidden "messages". The recent Dobson vs. SpongeBob is just one of many hilarious examples.

[hector459]

53. You have to be really stupid not figure out what the RW-funddie-conservs

are really angry about in that movie and it isn't taking that girl off life support. Go see the movie and then tell me what you think.

[progressivebydesign]

2. Wait.. I thought Michael Medved was a movie reviewer or something..

He's a conservative commentator? Oh well. Sorry that Clint has to find out what assholes the people of his party can be. They'll turn on anyone just to promote their own holier-than-thou personna.

[sonicx]

5. He's both...

Medved's not good at either. He liked "Christmas with the Cranks."

[Hissyspit]

17. He's an idiot...

[niceypoo]

30. Eastwood threatened to shoot Michael Moore

If he "shows up on my doorstep". Republicans are like Piranas. When they are on a feeding frenzy they take bites out of each other.

[lateo]

31. Yes he did...

Good catch and it makes Clint look like a moron doesn't it?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

33. I think that was meant as a joke

In reference to the scene in BFC with Charlton Heston

[JI7]

3. one of the few talented entertainers who is a Republican

and they don't like him anymore.

[Anakin Skywalker]

58. I Suspect He's a Fiscal Rethuglican

like most actors who vote Rethug. Socially speaking, they seem (or at least, I'd expect them to be) more relaxed than your average fundy, religious fanatic Rethuglican.

[gottaB]

4. Bonfires.

That's what you have to give people like Michael Mevded to make them happy.

[RBHam]

9. What Nightmares Doth Religious Insanity Seed?

God save us from your messengers!

[BrutalEntropy]

59. heh

Don't forget about the books to FUEL the bonfires...

[applegrove]

6. First it was cartoon characters - now movie characters.

First it was cartoon characters - now movie characters. Always things that cannot defend themselves. So you can motivate your own base without getting the Democrats all riled up (that proved a little dangerous - I take it). And plead innocence when one of your own gets knocked down for professional reasons (ManGate).Then claim to be the victim - or be only talking about ideas.

Once again a new "reality" this one where only ideas are tossed around and those bygone days of skewering people and candidates and ripping their faces off - well those days ... did that ever happen? It seems such a long time ago ...And the Europeans cannot 'think' about the last 4 years or the French are not allowed a "take" on Frenchgate. No the previous scapegoats are all erased and we start with a clean slate and a new reality.

Pretty soon Democrats will not be allowed to talk about the heinous divorce rate amongst fundamentalists (you cannot talk about us - we are people).

***holes!

[okoboji]

15. this is nothing new

remember Dan Quale and his comment about fictional character Murphy Brown?

[applegrove]

20. Euthanasia is a serious issue. I am totally against it.

Euthanasia is a serious issue. I am totally against it. The disabled community is totally terrified of the issue (for obvious reasons). It is murder in most cases. What was portrayed in the movie was right to die issues, not euthanasia - and something tells me the freeper critics are quite aware of the difference between the two issues - which is exactly why they want to mix up the two in the minds of America

I am also against kidnapping. I think most freeper are too (though I am not sure about that one). Why don't they go after the movies that show murder or kidnapping? Because if you follow their logic - that is what they should do next.

But they are not a logical entity. They are just a rag, tag bunch of broken down adults (ergo the renewed adolescent behavior) who have traded their souls for the illusion of more power in a world that is less and less powerful for Americans and America.

[stlsaxman]

24. Definition: euthanasia

From Merriam-Webster Online:

One entry found for euthanasia.


Main Entry: eu·tha·na·sia
Pronunciation: "yü-th&-'nA-zh(E-)&
Function: noun
Etymology: Greek, easy death, from euthanatos, from eu- + thanatos death -- more at THANATOS
: the act or practice of killing or permitting the death of hopelessly sick or injured individuals (as persons or domestic animals) in a relatively painless way for reasons of mercy
- eu·tha·na·sic /-zik, -sik/ adjective

My sister suffered a massive stroke while recovering from chemo/radiation/bone marrow transplant. Her heart threw a clot that lodged in her brain. She was cancer free, but brain-dead. Do you recover from that? No. All of us, her family, got together and decided that the only thing to do was pull life-support. Did we murder her? No. We "released" her spirit from an empty shell. It was the hardest decision I/we ever made.

Against euthanasia? DON'T HAVE ONE! But don't take away the ability to make the choice.

The "Right to Die" does not mean license to kill para/quadriplegic people, or those who utilize motorized chairs because they "cost society too much". It is an act of mercy.

(I'm hitting the send button fully aware that someone will be offended by this post- but such is the nature of a forum, right? if I don't respond immediately to the ensuing flames, it's because I'm off to work.)

[applegrove]

25. Not personally offended. Right to die is different that Euthanasia

Not personally offended. Right to die is different that Euthanasia. And living wills are different too. As is abortion, selective abortion, and using the stem cells from fetuses, etc.

I myself would be tempted to not live if I was totally dependant on a machine and could not communicate or read or watch TV - but then it would be my choice and I could decide at the time. Who knows - you might just feel grand. Some people are very happy that way (this is actually true - they live inside their heads and have full lives that way).

I know someone who was so tired of living and 'not dying' that every so often she would starve herself to try and "kick things up a notch". I do not know if she succeeded in the end - but at her particular age (many years beyond the age of majority)it was certainly within her rights to give it a go.

And then check this out!!

http://slate.msn.com/id/2113353/

Pretty frightening eh? Think of the number of people who can hear and think and we didn't know about it. Perhaps science will finally help us with people who cannot say what their will is just like science can tell us if someone is in fact already brain dead. If you watch ER you know that often people have no hope and they are just left to die - no extreme measures are taken. Medicine has always done that. You certainly hope you have a good doctor and that she will not needlessly prolong suffering.

The point is that these Freepers took a movie that went into 'right to die' issues and turned it into a 'euthanasia' movie and then made a stink about it. It is not a euthanasia movie. They are a lying bunch of windbags. Now that pisses me off.


But offing someone who has no say in it is a serious, serious thing.

[geniph]

38. To me, the difference between the two is simple:

in one case, the individual gives their individual consent - either in advance, in the case of a living will, or at the time. In the other case, the individual does not, and cannot, consent.

I support a person doing with their own life as they choose.

[applegrove]

72. The two what? To me ethanasia is when you cannot get consent

[Mr. Sinister]

46. I think you are confusing euthanasia with eugenics

as the above poster cited from the dictionary
Euthanasia is about ending life for those critically
ill or incapacitated and unable to make that decision.
Eugenics is in part the arbitrary decision of what is normal
and fit and eliminating everything that doesn't comply.

[applegrove]

48. No I am not. I just have more categories than you have.

No I am not. I just have more categories than you have. Eugenics is murder and persecution. It is also the study of people in a persecutory way. Sometimes you don't actually have to murder someone to destroy them. You can do it from really far away and to a whole lot of people at once. That is eugenics.

Euthanasia is killing someone without their permission or any idea of their wishes because you decide their life is not worth living. Some people will go through incredible pain to live - and hear a bird chirp. What about all those awakenings people? You don't know that they aren't having a ball inside. You don't know. And that is the point.

Religious types just want to keep their followers busy and perhaps not focused on the lack of action from Bush in Washington seeing as how he rules all Washington and he hasn't done anything for them. So they had to pick something for people to focus on - on the complete opposite side of America - so to Hollywood, and change a script, to make it all about Euthanasia instead of right to die. Obviously I guess & jest at the intensions of the windbags who warp the movie to fit their war games..

[Mr. Sinister]

49. I guess I've misunderstood euthanasia.

Thanks for the clarification. In a supposedly 'advanced'
society our resources should be devoted at least in part to
supporting the quality of all people's lives and their ability
to enjoy it however physically attenuated they may be.
Instead we devote our technological progress to seeing how
quickly and easily we can incinerate and destroy the
'enemy'.

[applegrove]

54. Yeah - I am really pissed off at the mini arms race Bushoid has started.

Yeah - I am really pissed off at the New Arms Race 'Bushoid' has started. Sometimes I wonder if that wasn't the real reasons why neocons were 'created'. Cause that winning the Cold War sure put a damper on the arms game.

[applegrove]

55. I'm only saying that that is what the word has always meant to me.

[stlsaxman]

60. Thank you so much for that clarification!

You hit the nail on the head.

These replies have me thinking we brutally murdered our sibling.

She was brain dead. That means no activity, okay? Without the dopamine her body would stop. I certainly wouldn't want to live like that. This was NOT a coma.

If my life force were trapped in an immovable shell THAT would be pure unadulterated hell.

[applegrove]

69. No - brain dead is dead. You cannot kill someone who is dead

[gottaB]

71. that's controversial

http://www.lifestudies.org/japanese.html

http://www.lifestudies.org/brain01.html

[applegrove]

74. I mean no electricity whatsoever!! Of course you use the best

I did not have time to read the articles. But - informed or not I will say...

Brain dead to me means no electricity in the actual brain whatsoever!! Of course you use the best of science to come to that conclusion and err on the side of caution.

The hard part comes when the religious right will ask us to invent a tool to prove the existence of a soul or not, and then tell you that you could not 'unplug' a soul even if there is no activity left at all other than instinctive electrical activity that reaches only as far as the brain stem. Which is of course the strategy of GOP Political Operatives, and successfully wedging the religious into thinking they once again have a monopoly on goodness.

I can think of a few "political operatives" I would like to use the Euthanasia Soul - O - Meter on!!!

[Sugarbleus]

7. Interestingly enough, parts of the disabled community are

against the film also. Some have called it a "snuff" film. I absolutely despise Clint Eastwood when I learned of his republican bias and his hatred of the disabled community. His going to congress to make it more difficult for mobility impaired individuals to bring a case against an arrogant and insensitive proprietor of a business when they've not made adequate modifications for entry to the establishment.

Eastwood was jerked around by a smarmy wheelchair bound person at his Carmel establishment some years ago. So what does he do? He goes to congress to make a stink about his predicament thereby making it harder for legitimate disability related issues ever getting addressed.

BTW, he is a close, intimate friend with the anti-enviro whack BILL WATTENBERG KGO fame.

MOST Disabled people DO NOT WANT TO DIE. That is the point. It's a "true" pro life stance. People should have the freedom to choose to end their life if that is how they feel. The problem is in stigmatizing sick and disabled as "probably not having a very good time of it, if it were me I'd just want to kill myself" crap.

The worry/argument is this sets up a trend whereby doctors and society begin to think in those terms too.

We don't want doctors someday making those choices FOR us. We don't want society to think we are just taking up space and useless either.

I am most definitely NOT AGAINST the right to die--end stage cancer et al. The decision MUST come directly from the individual and not from society or a doctor's personal philosophy.

I AM against typecasting in films and books this constant drone about those that loose their mobility MUST WANT TO END IT ALL. It's just not true.

Just another perspective.. :)

[sonicx]

10. huh?

<<The worry/argument is this sets up a trend whereby doctors and society begin to think in those terms too.

We don't want doctors someday making those choices FOR us. We don't want society to think we are just taking up space and useless either.>>

If a doctor made that decision for us, it would be murder.

Society already thinks disabled people take up space. Either way, what does their opinion have to do with an individual's choice to live or not?

The movie is not 'for' or 'against' the character's action. It tells a story and includes the consequences surrounding the action. I don't know how anyone could come out of the theater with their position on euthanasia changed. Eastwood made the movie and even he says he's against it.

Movies and TV include alot of material that we don't not approve of...rape, murder, heists, etc. But the movies aren't saying "this is good, go out and do it!" And people who see them aren't going to begin to approve of rape and murder.

[Sugarbleus]

12. Dembones is right....SOME folks JUST DON'T GET IT...

I seem to recall a hysteria surrounding a book by Michael Crichton: State of Fear. It's only fiction...BUT the entire environmental community is up in arms over how the story line might be interpreted by the general public.... hmmmm

In any case I was just trying to add another perspective that doesn't get discussed much, that is all.

[sonicx]

14. that's fine

btw, I'm environmentally conscience, but I don't really care about Crichton's book. Or the silly "Day After Tommorrow" movie.

[DemBones DemBones]

11. The abled don't get it. They just don't get it. nt

[Pastiche423]

16. Please, please, please

do not use the term "wheelchair bound". Unless someone is, in fact, bound by rope/chains to a w/c, ala Hannibal.

Although I use a w/c and will for the rest of my life, I am not bound to it. I sleep in a bed, take showers in a shower, etc.


:)

[Sugarbleus]

21. Did I say wheelchair bound?

And just for the record. I am married to a seriously physically "challenged" man. He also uses an electric Wheelchair. He gets all over town in that thing. I use a three wheeled scooter.

Hubby is now failing in health, but in years past he was extremely active in the local/state ADA. All of us learned by way of experience how each individual wishes to be addressed. We are from the old school, so old habits die hard in terms of "labels". But I do appreciate that each individual has a right to be addressed in the manner that pleases them, and with dignity. :)

My hubby can likewise get out of his conveyance and walk around some. Almost all of his many friends cannot. They are completely dependent on their chairs for mobility and/or nursing care for the rest of their needs. Some of his friends have died, a few are very ill with various diseases, one will not live out the year.

Because my hub can still get around town with little problem (he's fairly notorious for his "fast" chair and well liked ;)), he makes it his business to visit as many of his friends who cannot get out as well or as often as he does. (He is surrounded by a large group of differently abled friends, they get together for differing events as they are able and they're all a whole lot of fun).

Someone ends up in hospital for a certain test or set back/illness?...hubby is off and "running" to go check on that person. Sometimes, no one else goes to visit these folks, other times the room is full of friends abled bodied and not.

Over the years he has been involved in ensuring the city has made all the apropriate curb cuts in all the right places (including our Junior College). He's been involved in accessible transportation--city bus and lift-line/paratransit, not just for the disabled community of riders but also for the elderly.

He was involved for a time in accessibility issues where new construction was concerned. Any time a new store or public building was built or reworked, it had to have adequate access for those who needed it--doorways, aisles, bathrooms, ramps or elevators etc. Another of his associates works with the blind/visually impaired.

(an interesting tidbit: have any of you ever heard of blind golfing?..they do this now! I was talking to a friend from the Dornan Blind Center and he told me he was heading this program up in our area. I thought he was kidding me but he explained it to me and I just think this is a hoot..Wow!)

My husband is a gem. His life is precious to me and to others, I hope.

Peace, Joy and many great adventures to you! SB

[Pastiche423]

62. Yes, you did say wheelchair bound

"Eastwood was jerked around by a smarmy wheelchair bound person at his Carmel establishment some years ago. So what does he do? He goes to congress to make a stink about his predicament thereby making it harder for legitimate disability related issues ever getting addressed."

Both the Plaintiff and the Defendant in that case were assholes. Her for trying to go after the cash (her 2nd or third case?) and hurting the disabled community w/her lies. And Eastwood for making an already hard to endorse law harder.

I lost all respect for Eastwood then, even though Rowdy had been one of my early crushes. As to his newest movie - he did not research the topic of vent dependent quads. Any quad can request and be granted the removal of their vent and allowed to die.

[Sugarbleus]

67. Apologies for saying that =o/....but "right on" to the rest of your

post. I used to LOVE Eastwood, his movies ..the whole nine yards. I don't hate him exactly, but I'm truely disappointed in some of his behaviors these days.

It's weird too; I live just up the highway from his "neck of the woods"..

Best, SB

[applegrove]

70. I think what they object to is the character and her personal definition

I think what they object to is the character and her personal definition of what life meant to her. The character was quite clear that she wanted to die because she didn't want to be distanced from having succeeded in all her dreams (by becoming a great boxer). One person's choice.

Personally I do not agree with the main character. The fights the human spirit has inside - to reach a higher plane - are a thousand times more important than anything physical. But that is just me.

And yes - people talking about your 'type of life' and then making a value judgment on it and whether it would be worth living - why that would piss me off and frighten too. In fact every time I see a misogynist kill a woman on t.v. just because she is a woman - well i have to throw something.

Why wouldn't people with certain disabilities take the movie personal? And perhaps the physically challenged are the next 'group' Karl Rove wants to own. And since Liberals are not into Euthanasia as I define it - well they have to get all fuzzy with it by attacking a movie.

[CoffeeCat]

8. Total black and white thinking by the neocons....

The neocons need an enemy, so they can position themselves as always being on the "correct" side of the issue.

That's what Limbaugh, Medved, Savage, Hannity and the other hate-radio mongers are about. Ever notice how angry they are? And how there is no middle ground, compassion or room for bridge building with these guys.

They divide the nation into camps--wonderful, patriotic, intelligent, moral conservatives on one side. Then, on the other side--you have your demonic, selfish, moronic, lying, sickening liberals who want to destroy marriage and kill the babies.

It's horseshit. But with many--it's effective horseshit.

They can't handle that Eastwood is a generous, talented Republican--who can also present a sensitive story on euthanasia. That can't be! Eastwood has to be vilified now, because he didn't tow the Republican hate mongering as far as they would like.

Gag.

[geniph]

They're digital people

On-Off, One-Zero, Black-White, Wrong-Right, Evil-Good, Republican-Democrat. They cannot conceive of an analog world, where there are gradations between one and zero.

It's a child's worldview. Adults usually learn to think in shades of grey.

[applegrove]

73. Great stuff!

[moondust]

13. Fanaticism has won. n/t

[Hissyspit]

18. Most of Frank Rich article text found here (and LINK):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x105269

[barb162]

19. before I got to the second sentence I thought the issue

would be the issue of boxing, you know, people beating each other senseless.

[IndianaGreen]

22. Fundies don't even want the topic to be discussed

We are dealing with people that don't want science being taught in the schools because it conflicts with their bogus religious views. How can we be surprised that they also oppose one of the two Oscar nominated films dealing with death with dignity, the other being "The Sea Inside," and abortion, "Vera Drake."

Fundies want their retro world view to be the dominant view at the exclusion of everyone else's. They are no different from the Church of the Dark Ages that would burn people at the stake for witchcraft or heresy.

[bklyncowgirl]

23. Clint, you are a conservative, they are radical right wingers

There's a difference, and the sooner real conservatives realize this and divorce themselves from their anti-thought, ant-art radical agenda, the better it will be for all of us.

[dbt]

26. Eastwood's Big Mistake:

He made a movie with a strong female character, something the Loon Right absolutely cannot abide. That's why the buzzards began to circle, looking for anything they could pounce upon. The removal from life support was just the first thing that came handy.

Welcome to Dirty, Hairy Amerika, Clint!

:freak:
dbt

[hector459]

68. His biggest mistake was showing those non-black welfare loafers.

Tell me those scenes didn't make the average RW funddie upset.

[KittyWampus]

27. Pulling Ones Self Up By The Bootstraps Is SUCH GOP BULLSHIT.

Every one of us benefits from the actions of others in society.

We all effect each other.

More proof that the GOP and our society at large are a bunch of existentialist, myopic narcissists.

YES, it's up to each individual to find the motivation to move forward and the dedication to keep working...

But NOBODY is an island.

Buddhists have a meal prayer that goes:

This meal is the labor of countless beings;
let us remember their toil.
- Zen meal chant

[youspeakmylanguage]

41. that is a wonderful quote...

BTW

[snippy]

28. Welcome to the new repuplican party Clint.

Either take back your party or leave it.

[Massachusetts]

29. SOMEONE PLEASE

tell Rowdy Yates to adjust his chaps, he ain't out on the open range anymore.

[bunny planet]

32. The fundies want 'moral' control of how you come into the world and

how you go out of it and seemingly want control of how movies portray these two things as well. Any part of life between conception and death, they apparently don't give a shit about. Be sick, be poor, be miserable, suck it up and don't expect us to care or do anything to help. Love the fetus, hate the child. Honor God's will, but deny elderly or sick people any dignity in death. They are such dangerous, malignant people.

[jswordy]

34. The right is composed of morons and idiots! Heheheh.

I like Clint Eastwood. He is a very moderate Republican. I think he makes a very valid point when he says, "You used to be able to disagree with people and still be friends."

I still achieve that with many of my friends who are Republicans. But in the country as a whole, it is getting harder to do.

[The Backlash Cometh]

35. Welcome to the brave new world, Republican Eastwood.

Make a movie about how America slipped through your fingers while you were out voting for Republicans.

[Vogon_Glory]

36. Right-Wingers Have CPC

Many of us progressives have heard the phrase "politically correct" and many of us detest both the phrase and the mind-set PC entails. Well, it's flamingly obvious that the Far Right has its own version of "PC."

Just to annoy right wingie-dingies, I call it "CPC" (Conservative Politically Correct).

Clint Eastwood, much to his surprise, has run afoul of the "CPC" mentality.

Our condolences.

[genieroze]

37. For Christ's sake, it's a freakin movie. eom

[geniph]

42. The zealots have a real problem with the concept of "fiction"

probably one of the reasons they keep attacking TV, movies, and cartoons.

[sendero]

39. Another example of American Stupidity...

.. they get their knickers in a twist that a movie might have a propaganda angle and ignore that our entire 'news' media is nothing but propaganda.

It must be nice to be so fucking stupid and so 'right'.

[apple_ridge]

40. The republicans continue to eat anyone who steps out of line.

Eastwood sounds a bit dumbstruck that his own kind would slap him like this. Just another Republican dumbass.

[youspeakmylanguage]

43. I don't agree...

Although I do believe that 95% of right-wing policies and beliefs are wrong, I do believe we should differentiate between different degrees and types of conservatism.

It sounds like Eastwood is more of a pragmatic libertarian/conservative - a "bootstraps puller" - and a social moderate. Even if you don't believe in his politics, or his stance on the disabled, I think we can all agree that he is a man of integrity. Rush Limbaugh and Michael Medved are hacks. One is much more successful than the other, but they're still hacks. They'll take whatever position they need to take to appeal to their audience. They have no integrity. Eastwood isn't a "dumbass". His politics may be wrong, but like most decent people, he's shocked at how low some people will go.

If we just deem all conservatives (defined as people to the right of our own beliefs) as "dumbasses", then we're no better than the hacks and sheep on the right that call all those to the left of them "barking moonbats" and "lefty loons".

BTW: The Michael Moore quote was a joke. He likes to tweak his "tough guy" image in public.

[sonicx]

45. Yes, from what I read of Eastwood, he's seems to be a libertarian...

the whole "bootstraps" thing, "let people do what they want as long as they don't hurt anyone," etc.

He's definitely not a social conservative/religious right type of person.

[youspeakmylanguage]

47. I read more about his congressional appearance...

...and the bill he supported. I don't agree with his position in regards to complying with the Disabilities Act. I wanted to make that clear.

[HuckleB]

63. His own kind?

Hardly. Eastwood is Goldwater-style conservative. Fiscally a tightwad (though not in terms of Bushian "take from the poor, give to rich" baloney), to be sure, but quite live-and-let-live on the social side of the ledger.

[leesa]

44. Removing someone from life support and allowing them to die is completely

natural. What is unnatural is KEEPING them on life support.

[BlueHandDuo]

57. But the medical industry can't keep billing...

...after you escape the machines.

[HuckleB]

64. Yeah. Whatever you say.

:eyes:

[Dr Fate]

50. Rush the Fat-Ass Pill Popper has a problem with the Cowboy?

Clean up your own back-yard, Fat-Boy. You dont like Clints speech? Guess what- we dont like yours.

At least Ol Clint aint no hypocrite!

Let Clint make his god-damned movie in peace.

[superconnected]

51. always nice to see the reps turn on their own

now if the rep voters could see that they are being used and the rep politicians don't care about them or their rights.

[llmart]

52. Hey, Clint!

It's your party that started it. Now when it bites you in the ass you don't like it. Well, if you have so much pull then tell your party leaders to steer clear of the hatemongering and maybe they can also apologize for the witch hunt of the Clintons (where it all started).

[CBGLuthier]

56. Dismissing something as just fiction is wrong

Upton Sinclair's novel The Jungle was just fiction. But the public became aware of the poor sanitation in slaughterhouses and we got stricter food laws because of the outcry.

Fiction can influence public beliefs and policies.

Now I am not against the movie and I certainly can understand why some in the disabled community are upset about the perceptions that some would take from the film. But I have read about exactly how much the character in the film wants to die and the lengths she goes to trying to kill herself. It's the context that makes the difference.

Let's be honest, it takes a certain amount of courage to choose to live as a quad or para for the rest of your life. Some may not have that courage and maybe, because of religous beliefs, feel there is a better life for them after death. I would disagree with them but each individual has to make that choice.

And before some think I don't know anything about the disabled community, my best friend has been in a chair for two years now. He has a marvelous zest for life. He had a rough time at first but those days are behind him now.

And I have been in love with a woman who has CP for 20 years. She too now has to use a chair becaus of balance problems. These people and millions like them have the courage to live their lives and don't take the "easy" way out.

But each person must make these choices for themselves.

[Squeegee]

61. I'm sure they wouldn't have complained

... if the character in the movie were gay.

[ignatius 2]

65. Clint,Clint,Clint..this is your party, the GOP, ugly,vicious

fuckers aren't they? Why don't you come on over to the the side of the good guys and leave these evil bastards to continue eating their own?

[gorrister]

66. It's those damn welfare cheats ...

they're destorying America! :eyes:

(f*** you, Clint)