Psychologist says Schlosser didn't do enough to protect daughter

[rainbow4321]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sharedcontent/APStories/stories/D886EIUO0.html



The husband of a woman accused of killing her 10-month-old baby by cutting off her arms should have sought medical treatment for his mentally ill wife and done more to protect the infant and her older sisters, according to a psychologist's report obtained by The Dallas Morning News.

Long said John Schlosser told her he felt "a little melancholy" about the baby's death but finds comfort that she is "praising God" in heaven. He said he was "almost done being very sad when I buried her

The day before the baby's death, the couple argued in the parking lot of their church because Dena Schlosser said she wanted to give their youngest daughter to God, according to the psychiatric report and CPS officials. The couple talked about a Bible passage in which a woman promises her baby to God. John Schlosser said the conversation was not unusual because his wife is "very religious but often misinterprets scriptures."

Long also noted that the couple's 6-year-old daughter told CPS caseworkers that her father spanked her mother with a wooden spoon for not listening to him when they argued in the parking lot.

[BlueEyedSon]

1. "very religious but often misinterprets scriptures."

All too common these days.....

[mzmolly]

9. You can say that again!

:crazy:

[DELUSIONAL]

41. Story from a mental health nurse -- true story

This woman was a nurse on a Caribbean island for years -- she made sure patients took their meds. She got calls for "strange behavior".

When she asked a man why he showed up at church nude the guy replied, "God said to come as you are", and he quoted the bible.

To him god was telling him to show up in church "as he is" and to him that meant nude.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. That isn't faith..that's a cult

[PurityOfEssence]

43. A religion is nothing but a cult that made it

There are plenty of established religions that believe in pure poppycock. The sanctification of tradition or legions of fellow loonies doesn't mean squat. In fact, the more ludicrous the fantasy, the more slavish the devotees often are.

This incident is a classic example of what's wrong with faith and the supernatural.

[Azathoth]

3. God, please save me from your followers n/t

[mzmolly]

10. Oh c'mon. God please save me from people who lump all "followers"

in with parents who cut of their babies limbs. :eyes:

[Azathoth]

25. These fundies are nuts

The wife is insane, and the husband is close behind. I'm sorry that you're so self-conscious that you took offense to a semi-tongue-in-cheek post referring to a couple of insane fundies.

[mzmolly]

44. I'm not "self-conscious" I'm pointing out your ignorant post.

You didn't say "God save me from the insane fundies" you said God save me from "your followers."

[Imalittleteapot]

4. he felt "a little melancholy"?

He's as crazed as his wife.

[stevedeshazer]

5. sick, sick, sick

That's not religion, it's insanity.

[depakid]

6. I have no problem with prosecuting the husband

It sounds like there's ample grounds to allege some criminal negligence or child endangerment theory.

[mzmolly]

12. Agreed.

:(

[BrklynLiberal]

29. The husband also should have been prosecuted in the case where the woman

drowned her five (or six)kids. He has since divorced her, and is talking about remarrying and starting a new family. :puke:

Wasn't that in Texas also? She also said God told her to do it.

EDIT:Just saw post #7 by Lydia Leftcoast, and that is the case I am referring to. That husband should have been strung up by his ....s

[depakid]

33. Don't know- that's a little tougher case

While I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments, in that case the husband did ensure that his wife sought treatment, and I didn't hear the sort of facts I'm hearing in this one- namely, that the husband knew or had reason to know of the womans intentions.

Add in that the guy worked for NASA- and that were are talking about Texas, and I'm not sure you could secure a conviction.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

7. Common fundie pattern of a controlling jerk lording it over

a wife who isn't too tightly wrapped. :grr:

I'm glad the psychologist is holding him responsible, too, as Andrea Yates' husband should also have been held responsible.

[Azathoth]

8. Lording it over his wife???

How do you figure he was "lording it over his wife"? :wtf:

The guy is obviously detached from reality and floating in his own little Jesus Wonderland, but attempting to blame him for his batshit insane wife's actions is a little bit of a stretch. In the real world, a husband would have tried to get psychiatric help for his wife. In the faith-based community, they pray and put everying in Jesus's hands.

[Gyre]

11. Read the quote at least!

If you do Azathoth, you will see the following last paragraph.

"Long also noted that the couple's 6-year-old daughter told CPS caseworkers that her father spanked her mother with a wooden spoon for not listening to him when they argued in the parking lot."

The phrase "lording over" is a completely appropriate inference to draw from this obsevered behavior. A pathological degree of control and domination over a spouse is how I would phrase it. But the characterization that you apparently took issue with, is proper.

Gyre

[Azathoth]

15. No, I don't think the characterization is proper at all

I think its projecting external bias onto the situation. Most fundies believe it is the man's job to discipline his wife. It's in the Bible for god's sake. That's what they preach in their churches. Hell, in his own mind, the guy probably thought he was doing a good thing, since he spanked her because she wanted to sacrifice one of her children. I see nothing in the article to suggest that the guy made a habit of being capricious or attempting to "lord" anything over her. All I see is a not-to-bright guy who seems to be off in his own religious fantasyland.

A pathological degree of control and domination over a spouse is how I would phrase it.

Because he spanked her once? Come on. The guy's a fundie idiot, but this is hyperbole of the first order.

[barb162]

18. spanking another adult once is once too many and I think it

indicates something way more profound. Spanking was for bad children. It sounds like this jerk couldn't figure out he was punishing another adult. Both are so totally fucked up. When I hear cases like this all I think is if the state won't get them into long-term intensive therapy, they should be sterilized so they can't EVER do it to another kid again.

[roguevalley]

24. If we were talking about children, then maybe the man can walk.

But he was an adult with children. He was stupid and sick but he also was damned negligent. If the wife, a sick fundie, owes the state, the husband, another sick fundie owes the state the same degree of punishment. Can't have one without the other. Can absolve one by saying they are 'floating in their own little Jesus Land' and punish the other.

[Azathoth]

27. I agree he was negligent

No question about it. I was just questioning where the whole "he's lording it over her!" thing came from.

[MissB]

31. You know, most people don't carry around wooden spoons in their car

so they can then spank their wife with them while in public.

Lydia Leftcoast is right.

[barb162]

32. I had to laugh when I first read this about the spoon, but there is

NOTHING funny about it. It makes me wonder how often he was hitting her if he carried it in the car

[rainbow4321]

35. And if that is what he did in public...

what the hell did he do when they were at home????

[barb162]

40. at home, he probably made made her tell him how much she loved

him while he was beating her.

[Azathoth]

37. No, she's not "right"

She's reading her own external bias into the situation, because there is nothing in the article to suggest that he was "lording" anything over her. The guy is nuts, and he was negligent. Everyone admits that. Apparently, he spanked his wife when she told him she wanted to kill their kid. That's all the article says. There's nothing about him plotting against her or lording anything over her or being capricious or otherwise purposely trying to make her a victim.

And not that it matters at this point, but the article's phrasing is a little vague. It's not clear exactly whether he spanked her in the parking lot, or he spanked her later for disagreeing with him in the parking lot.

[MissB]

38. An adult spanking another adult

(unless it is with a sexual connotation) is a control issue. Doesn't really matter where he spanked her.

[Azathoth]

39. Or its the reaction of a not-too-bright fundie who's wife just told him

she wanted to kill their kid. Who knows. I'm not defending what the guy did, I'm not defending him spanking his wife, and I'm certainly not saying that he wasn't negligent. I'm just saying that I didn't read anything in the article that suggested that this guy was some controlling, capricious nutjob who was trying to "lord something over" his wife or make her a victim, at least no more than any other run-of-the-mill fundamentalist. Right now, I see the guy as being indirectly responsible for what happened, but I don't see him as being the person who actively made it happen. As further details emerge, it might turn out that I'm wrong, but I'm taking the article at face value.

[mzmolly]

45. "Spanked her once?" Are you kidding? The fact this fool felt

he could speaks volumes.

However, I agree he's not the blame for his wifes actions, he's only to blame for his "in-action."

[Lars39]

19. You want to give him a free pass because of his religion?

:puke:

[Azathoth]

20. A "free pass" for what?

The guy's a fundie idiot. He did just what every fundie idiot is taught to do. He should have gotten psychiatric help immediately for his wife. But he didn't, because in Jesusland, you pray to Jesus instead of putting your faith in doctors. So the guy was negligent, even if he was too much of a fundie to realize that he was being negligent. But he didn't kill his kid, and there's nothing in the article to suggest that he was some capricious psychopath who was "lording it over his wife", whatever the hell that means.

[Lars39]

22. He should get jail time.

In Jesusland, being head of the household= master.

[mzmolly]

46. Lot's of fundies seek medical attention. This particular family was

beyond the realm of "fundie" and in the land of totally "looney."

[stevedeshazer]

48. Seriously, Azathoth

How would YOU like to be spanked with a wooden spoon in a parking lot like his wife was?

You honestly don't think this would contribute to his wife's dysfunction at all?

Glad I'm not married to you.

[demigoddess]

42. I agree, too often these religious guys kill or allow killing by

the fact that they pay the bills, leave all the parenting to the wife and then bury their heads in the bible rather than help with the children. I am not saying all men or all fundie men, but some of those that take things literally.

[moobu2]

13. My fundie Uncle used to beat my Aunt because

she was pregnant and very sick (swelling and nauseated etc..) and couldnt go to church, My Aunt would try anyway but could get her shoes on because her feet had swollen so badly. My Uncle beat her repeatedly because she could go to church and eventually she miscarried because of it.

This was like 30 years ago when nobody cared really.

Anyway, extremely religous people have digusted me every since.

[barb162]

16. what a sick sonofabitch bastard. I want to kick his ass just reading this

[rainbow4321]

21. His poor kids are going to be so messed up.....

Register-first site w/ more details of the psych report...makes you wonder WHAT the damn report would need to say in order for him NOT to be given the kids back.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/city/collin/stories/021105dnccoschlosser.4c3a6.html


Dr. Long wrote in her report that Mr. Schlosser's responses to the tragedy in his life are unusual and said he has narcissistic personality traits. "His lack of emotion given the traumatic nature of recent events is disturbing," she wrote. "This absence of grief is either an immature denial of normal human emotions that hover under the surface of his controlled veneer or indicates a true lack of emotion."


She noted that his responses to his daughters' questions during supervised visits focus on "his own coping rather than his daughters." The report gave a few examples.

When the older girl asked about her mother, Mr. Schlosser told her, "Mommy put herself in this position for what she did."
Later, during the same visit, the girl asked what kind of knife her mother used.

"Does it really matter?" he told her. "I am trying not to think about it."

[barb162]

30. yep, narcissist, always thinking about themselves and blaming

others in any way they can. They will take credit for everything and accept no responsibility when things go wrong. I know one

[BrklynLiberal]

34. Didn't Andrea Yates' husband exhibit the same exact behavior?

All he was concerned about was getting away from her, and getting married again so he could start another family.
He took absolutely no responsibilty for the situation. She was home alone with 5 children under the age of 6 (and I think she may have been pregnant again). Not allowed to have her mother come to help her. (His rules! He isolated her from her family and friends.) She had suffered severe postpartum depression after an earlier pregnancy and they had been told by doctors not to have more children, but he wanted more.

[mzmolly]

47. Many abusive types are raised in Fundie homes where women are second

class. And in homes period where women are treated like lesser human beings.

Feminists are called "Feminazi's" and the like. :eyes:

[Lars39]

14. Husband, minister or both, is doing some CYA:

<snip>
The couple prayed about it and consulted their minister,
who told Dena Schlosser she was misinterpreting the Bible,
the report said. John Schlosser said he thought the problem was solved.

Doyle Davidson, the couple's minister, said he never talked with them
about Dena Schlosser's interpretation of the Bible. <snip>

[ultraist]

17. The two biggest factors involved in child abuse are:

1. Drug and alcohol addiction
2. Conservative Religiosity

Surprise, surprise, she was a zealot. Throw in some additional mental illness and you have a very dangerous mix.

[rainbow4321]

23. And it shows in Texas...child abuse deaths up 11% in one year

Imagine what the non-fatal abuse numbers must be....


http://www.mysanantonio.com/sharedcontent/APStories/stories/D8858N9G0.html


More than 200 Texas children died as a result of abuse or neglect in fiscal year 2004, up 11 percent from the previous year and double the number from a decade earlier, according to the state Department of Family and Protective Services.

Statewide, the 2004 abuse and neglect fatality rate works out to 3.3 for every 100,000 Texas children. That's roughly 65 percent higher than the latest national average of 1.98 per 100,000 children from the federal Department of Health and Human Services.

"We don't have enough staff, we don't have enough investigations, we don't have enough foster homes, we don't have enough training and we don't have enough prevention," said Susan Craven, who heads the Austin-based advocacy group Texans Care for Children.

"It's disturbing to see the number of children dying from what we see as preventable child abuse," said Geoffrey Wooll, spokesman for the beleaguered agency. "The protection of children is a community interest." Family and Protective Services was overhauled last year after several high-profile child homicides that occurred after agency caseworkers had investigated for possible neglect or abuse at home, and decided the children were safe to remain with their parents

[VegasWolf]

26. "she is "praising God" in heaven." My thought is that when one believes

in invisible beings in the sky that control you, then
you are already on the slipery slope.

[KissMeKate]

28. creepy father knows best family

he should be held responsiblefor not protecting his kid if he was so controlling in the home he physically abused his wife for arguing with him.

[BrklynLiberal]

36. This whole scenario is typical of the idea of the Right Wing Fundie

principles of controling women's minds and bodies. It is what we can justifiably call the American Taliban. Their rules and strict control of women are so similar to what is happening in the Middle East Islamic theocracies that it makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.