Another Dem says he's open to private accounts -- argghh!

[BlueInRed]

Dang, I thought we had unity on this issue....

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=536&ncid=536&e=4&u=/ap/20050211/ap_on_go_co/social_security

snip

A second Senate Democrat said Friday he was open to President Bush (news - web sites)'s idea of letting people divert some of their Social Security (news - web sites) taxes to personal retirement accounts as Republican Party leaders tried to allay re-election fears among wavering GOP lawmakers.

Sen. Tom Carper, D-Del., said any plan should be bipartisan, in part to give lawmakers from both parties political cover for supporting major changes to such the popular retirement program.

"I don't believe that we should rule out the accounts," Carper said Friday in an interview. "We have a very low savings rate in this country and clearly need to find ways to stimulate savings, and I think we should be open to a wide range of ideas and not dismiss them out of hand."

Still, he warned that he would not support significant benefit cuts or significant borrowing to pay for the accounts.

snip

[King Coal]

1. He needs to get a tuneup from Dean and Reid.

[BrightKnight]

22. The H Series Savings Bond program was cancelled under Bush

Why did they suddenly cancel the H Series Savings Bonds program? This effectively prevents Savings Bonds from being used as a tax deferred retirement plan. Savings Bonds are safe. They earn a decent return and you can purchase as many as you want.

Why wasn't Bush screaming when this program was cancelled?

[ZR2]

23. The H was replace by the I

you can still purchase series EE and I bonds, which I do every month.

[BrightKnight]

34. You can no longer convert I and EE bonds to H and live off the interest.

You can no longer convert I and EE series bonds to H Series bonds and live off the interest. It is my understanding that that I and EE series bonds will eventually stop earning interest and the only way to access the interest or principal is to cash the bond. When you do this you must pay all of the deferred tax.

The I series bond is simply an inflation indexed savings bond.

The H series bond made quarterly interest payments. It was possible to convert I or EE series bonds to H series at any time without having to pay the tax.

This wasn't the best supplemental retirement plan in the world but it was more secure and flexible than other options. It was also instantly available to any US citizen.

[ZR2]

36. you can roll matured I and EE bonds

into HH bonds...as well as any other series of bonds that have matured.

[BrightKnight]

38. Not after 9/1/04 "no longer ...reinvest HH/H bonds or or exchange EE"

" Notice:

As of September 1, 2004, investors are no longer able to reinvest HH/H bonds or exchange EE/E bonds for HH bonds. "

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/research/indepth/hbonds/res_hbonds.htm

[AuntiBush]

50. Well stated, King Coal!

My sediments, exactly! And they will!

:bounce:

[Born Free]

61. dems have no backbone

more often than not, the current crop of elected democrats are spineless wimps that will roll over on any issue in hopes the right wing will have mercy on them at election time. Dean needs to really work to get these to stand up for America, Dean needs to make these wimps realize that if they expect the American people to trust them with their safety they need to show some strength, if the elected democrats can't stand up to the right wing in America, how can anyone expect them to stand against foreign entities that want to see America destroyed....

[SoCalDem]

2. Drip....drip.....just like the "medicare deal"...

:grr:

[papau]

35. Don't worry - as phrased by him, he is no vote on Bush carve out accounts

We just need to keep him to his words in this story!

You can not do carve out without violating those rules he says he will not violate!

[Cha]

3. I don't want my SS messed with ..

CARPER!

[Vincardog]

4. Right I propose raising Min. Wage to $20/hr give those folks

something to save. How dare they spend it all on nearly covering living expenses?

[hughee99]

15. Let's make it $50 an hour! n/t

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sandpiper]

5. He also joined with the Repukes in limiting Class Actions

The reason he gave was...

"to make sure when companies are called on the carpet, when they are involved in a class action litigation, they're in a court, in a courthouse with a judge where the companies have a fair shake, where the odds, the decks aren't stacked against them,"

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2005/02/10/national/w123626S32.DTL


*Sigh*

With friends like these...

[louis c]

30. kick

[cosmicdot]

37. also, co-sponsored S.5; and voted 'against' the Kennedy amendment

safeguarding civil rights cases, etc.

I didn't spy a Republican in Name Only amongst the Republicans ... they're all in step.

It's obvious who the 'constituents' are here ... legislation of, by and for Corporate America ... not working, rank-and-file citizens. I hope DNC Chair Dean can help focus on the Corporate America vs. us issue ... imo, it's basic to and the heart of so much ... isn't this what it's coming down to? how do we exorcise corporate america from our party, and its strangle-hold on our society?

even some Democrats who voted for the final bill, at least voted for the Kennedy amendment (To amend the definition of class action in title 28, United States Code, to exclude class actions relating to civil rights or the payment of wages.), except:
Carper (D-DE); Dodd (D-CT); Feinstein (D-CA); Kohl (D-WI); Nelson (D-NE) ... the amendment was rejected.

amendment details:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00006


S.5 Co-Sponsors ...

Sen Alexander, Lamar - 1/25/2005
Sen Allen, George - 2/9/2005
Sen Bond, Christopher S. - 2/7/2005
Sen Carper, Thomas R. - 1/25/2005 - on board early
Sen Chafee, Lincoln - 1/25/2005
Sen Collins, Susan M. - 2/3/2005
Sen Cornyn, John - 2/10/2005
Sen DeMint, Jim - 1/25/2005
Sen DeWine, Mike - 1/31/2005
Sen Dodd, Christopher J. - 1/25/2005
Sen Ensign, John - 1/25/2005
Sen Feinstein, Dianne - 1/25/2005
Sen Frist, William H. - 1/25/2005
Sen Hagel, Chuck - 1/25/2005
Sen Hatch, Orrin G. - 1/25/2005
Sen Kohl, Herb - 1/25/2005
Sen Kyl, Jon - 1/25/2005
Sen Landrieu, Mary L. - 1/25/2005
Sen Lieberman, Joseph I. - 1/25/2005
Sen Lincoln, Blanche L. - 1/25/2005
Sen Lott, Trent - 1/25/2005
Sen Lugar, Richard G. - 1/25/2005
Sen Martinez, Mel - 1/25/2005
Sen McCain, John - 2/7/2005
Sen McConnell, Mitch - 1/25/2005
Sen Santorum, Rick - 1/26/2005
Sen Schumer, Charles E. - 1/25/2005
Sen Sessions, Jeff - 1/25/2005
Sen Snowe, Olympia J. - 1/25/2005
Sen Sununu, John E. - 1/31/2005
Sen Thune, John - 1/25/2005
Sen Vitter, David - 1/25/2005
Sen Voinovich, George V. - 1/25/2005

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:SN00005:@@@P

Well, at least, it's a great way to get to know our elected officials.

Top Contributors to Sen. Carper
1 MBNA Corp $132,447 - banking, #1
2 Americans for Responsible Leadership $49,000
3 Skadden, Arps et al $37,830
4 JP Morgan Chase & Co $36,161
5 American International Group $34,000 - AIG?!!? Maurice Greenberg, Chairman of the Nixon Center is Chairman of the Board ... his sons are involved with the insurance companies Eliot Spitzer has been hounding ...
6 DASHPAC $32,000
7 Council for a Livable World $28,071
8 DuPont Co $25,400
9 New Democrat Network $23,795 -- DLC
10 HSBC Holdings $23,050 - the world's local bank
11 State of Delaware $22,600 - huh?
12 FMR Corp $19,750 <-- Fidelity invests in Corporate America in huge chunks
13 Akin, Gump et al $19,052 <--- gosh knows all that this law/lobbyist firm is involved with ... just Google "akin gump and poppy bush"; that should get one started ... involved w/Akin, Gump et al, Robert Strauss was the Founder and Chair of the DNC, but he has, also, served as a Poppy's presidential library foundation trustee (Emeritus) http://www.georgebushfoundation.org/bush/asp/OverView/Trustees.asp Vernon Jordan is involved with this firm ... but, he's on the Int'l Advisory Board of Barricks Gold ... Poppy's good friends ... he gets around on other Corporate Boards, too
http://www.hoovers.com/akin-gump/--ID__40568--/free-co-factsheet.xhtml
14 Intl Brotherhood of Electrical Workers $19,000
15 Hercules Inc $18,250
16 Bank One Corp $18,000
17 American Postal Workers Union $17,500
18 AstraZeneca Pharmaceuticals $17,384
19 Democratic Senatorial Campaign Cmte $16,500
20 Young, Conaway et al $16,050

learn more
http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.asp?CID=N00012508&cycle=2004

a lot of corporate investments IAW his personal finance statement .... including organizations which donated to his campaign ... isn't that a conflict of interest ... not just for him, but the lot of 'em???

http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/pfd2003/N00012508_2003.pdf

[Mark E. Smith]

6. Wait'll He Gets A Look At President F*ck Up's Latest Approval Numbers

Shrub's stepping on the third rail has sent his approval numbers plummeting. One look at that and Carper'll be a-scampering back to the blue side of the line.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

7. *picking up my bullhorn*

"Senator, step away from the Social Security. Remember, the same person who told us Iraq was an imminent threat to the world AND had WMD's is now telling us something is wrong with Social Security. Please, sir, do your duty and due diligence and protect it, rather than give credibility to what we know is a false alarm. Thank you."

[Placebo]

8. Just great.

The only bright side of this might be that a few Republican senators have said they're against privatizing Social Security, last I heard.

[GetTheRightVote]

9. Call Senator Carper and leave a message for him to join with his

Democratic brothers and sisters, perhaps this is a test to see if we are really watching the parties. Let him and all Democrats know that the eyes of the Democratic members are upon them. I left my message and I hope you join me in doing so. Let our voices be heard before the curtain closes.

Congress switch board number; [phone].

:kick:

[Pinboy]

10. I can't tell if he's serious . . .

or just trying innoculate himself from charges of obstructionism.

[Toucano]

11. Fuck your "political cover"

We're talking about people's lives, asshat!

[Starlight]

12. Of course people should have private retirement accounts.

IN ADDITION TO SOCIAL SECURITY, not instead of social security!!! Why do people keep acting like we can only open private investment accounts to save for retirement if they destroy social security first? :nuke:

[BlueInRed]

14. Exactly 401k, etc

[Joe Chi Minh]

13. This sort of thing

happened in the UK, with pensions. This Government introduced a scheme (good word, here) whereby people could switch from their Government pensions to private ones. And of course, they encouraged everyone to avail themselves of this bright new idea.

People no longer know how to think in terms of first principles, so the question of why a Government (particularly one as cynical as this one), against all known form, would want to enrich the poor, never seemed to have occurred to them. I mean would you trust most politicians?

The mere words, "private" and "personal" would set alarm bells ringing like mad, in the minds of people with even a modicum of worldly wisdom. So, what happened, insurance companies started ripping the people off by mis-selling pension plans, and have had to repay large amounts. I think maybe the Government is even considering reabsorbing the "privatised" pensions.

[98geoduck]

16. He's also pro Tort reform because Corporations are hurting.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3095886

[LinuxInsurgent]

17. can we blacklist these Dems, please?

Let em know that a vote for ANYTHING pro-Bush means political SUICIDE.

[stray cat]

18. Personal savings accounts are good. I like my 401K

Bush's plan to replace S.S. accounts is the problem. Both together for different purposes without benefit cuts would be good for most of us.

[98geoduck]

19. There REALLY DOES need to be a Social Democrat third party.

[latteromden]

20. Carper's really startin' to piss me off, man.

:eyes:

[smiley_glad_hands]

21. He's just giving himself political cover.

He's got a couple of caveats:

"he would not support significant benefit cuts or significant borrowing to pay for the accounts."


Otherwise you raise taxes. Bush and/or the Repubs will never do that.

Give the guy a break---he's just creating dialogue.

[Toucano]

24. I won't give him a break.

The dialogue we need to hear is a firm "Hell No!" and lots of it.

The electorate constantly says they can't distinguish Dems from Repubs. This kind of "dialogue" is the reason for that.

Privatization is bad. Democrats need to circle the wagons to protect it. His "political cover" is all wet!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

56. Does $2,000,000,000,000 qualify as "significant?"

:shrug:

[keopeli]

25. The title of a thread in LBN needs to be the same as the article

I know the window to edit is expired, and I'm leaving the thread here.

Please make sure all LBN subject lines contain the exact title of the source article.

Thanks!

Keo
--
LBN Moderator

[depakid]

26. The Greens need to run a candidate against Tom Carper

The guy has sold us all out over and over and over. look at his voting record.

If the Dems can't dislodge the guy in the primaries, then the Greens need to find a serious candidate to suck off as many votes as possible. Who knows, after a few more years of these constant outrages, and the right candidate could even win....

[EST]

27. Saving what, you idiot?

How the hell do you save when you don't have a job? Weak kneed possum democrat. Probably voted for Bush. What a craphead!

[hollowdweller]

28. Somebody should post this and his email addy in the Delaware forum

Maybe some of our members from there could contact his office.

[Democat]

29. Why even be a Democratic if you can't stand up for anything?

Cowardly idiots.

[stevedeshazer]

31. Pandering to get re-elected

He's trying to have it both ways.

quote:

"I don't believe that we should rule out the accounts," Carper said Friday in an interview."

Yet, there's this:

Still, he warned that he would not support significant benefit cuts or significant borrowing to pay for the accounts.

Political cover big-time.

[bluedog]

32. thats Democrat #2...............

Sen. Ben Nelson (news, bio, voting record), D-Neb., also has said he is open to discussing the private accounts, saying he wants to see details.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050212/ap_on_go_co/social_security_4

[Erika]

33. I don't want Wall Street profiting from my taxes

Nor do I want them gambling with my taxes.

Are you aware that if we die before we receive benefits that we forfeit the benefits under W's plan? Which is contrary to Bush's propaganda that we are building a nest egg that could be passed on to our family.

We should all contact democrats who would betray us by cooperating with Bush's radical policies.

[qwghlmian]

54. Even if the private accounts plan passes,

you don't have to gamble with your taxes. You can invest your account into Treasury bonds that are inflation-indexed, and basically duplicate what Social Security trust fund invests in.

As for your second assertion:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A61708-2005Feb3?language=printer

"If I die, it belongs to my estate. If I divorce, it's a marital asset. And it's protected from political risk. Government can't take it away."

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Erika]

43. My parents were going to retire in 2002

They couldn't. Their 401 K took too big of a hit. It is just now getting back to a decent level. They are 100% against privatization of SS because of this experience.

Their government EE bonds have kept their value. They are for investing some of their SS in these bonds, but not the private markets.

[flyarm]

44. anybody here have an airline 401k? or enron??

wtf..how can so many be so stupid....anyone here with an airline and going to loose their pension because of *es wonderful freaking economy??

don't touch social security..and to pay back the debt bush has it in .. roll back the taxes for the 1% now or loose your job in d.c....i say..and we all better get on the phones to those asses who think they can screw with our future or the future of our kids!!

fly

[Gloria]

40. Where's the solid bloc against this, Reid????

What do these "accounts" have to do with savings? There are Roth accounts, Education accounts, etc. etc, not to mention the damned bank where one can save....

[Democat]

42. Reid has to deal with cowardly idiots - the party needs a cleaning!

It's going to take a lot of years to clean up the mess that is the current Democratic Party.

We are represented by a bunch of wimps and cowards.

There are some good people in the Democratic Party, but a lot of losers too.

[flyarm]

46. you are 100% right!

and those who live in states with these wimps..may i suggest you do what i have done..i have taken pennies and painted them with nail polish red..and when they vote for anything bush i mail on to them and tell them they will never get another red cent from me!

fly

[FreepFryer]

45. Tell Senator Carper that we SHOULD rule out private accounts! (n/t)

Send him a firm, polite message that the Democratic base does not want Social Security investment in private accounts!

http://carper.senate.gov/email-form.html



Washington, DC
United States Senate
Washington, DC 20510
202-224-2441
202-228-2190 (fax)

Georgetown
12 The Circle
Georgetown, DE 19947
302-856-7690

Dover
2215 Federal Building
300 South New Street
Dover, DE 19904
302-674-3308

Wilmington
1 Christina Center
301 North Walnut Street
Suite 102L-1
Wilmington, DE 19801
302-573-6291

[The Backlash Cometh]

47. Another Dem willing to spread his cheeks for the Republicans.

you know, if Republicans can pay media whores, why not Dem politicians?

[NVMojo]

48. a real good tuneup or threaten him with the end of his career...

[Lydia Leftcoast]

49. Calling all Delaware residents:

get on this guy's case. Pronto.

[Zynx]

51. He's up in '06. Try to threaten him a little bit.

[dansolo]

52. Don't forget what's in Delaware

Aren't a lot of banks headquartered in Deleware? Of course, he is looking out for his constituents. Unfortunately it's only his corporate constituents.

[mitchum]

53. Absolutely! There's the answer to this not-so-puzzling action, my friend

[Melynn]

55. I wonder if the White House has something on Carper

You never know with the Bush crime family in power.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

57. SS safer than stocks, on 911 my mother lost 1/3 of everything

The stock market is like a casino - you are gambling, even if you use a reputable broker that has no load funds.

All it takes is a massive drop, like on 911, which hurt most investors, except for those with put options on the airlines.

If all my mother had was her investments, then we would really be hurting, since her medicines cost $7K a year. Good thing she has social security.

The medicare modernization act is not going to help her much, it is just like every other piece of federal legislation passed since 2000.

Fight against changing Social Security from a retirement insurance program into a private investment program that pays the government and it's cronies.

We need to post these senators and congressmens' email addresses so it will be easier for everyone to contact them

[drscm]

58. He's worried about savings? I thought we were supposed to be shopping...

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

59. Fax Sen Carper for free about social security plans

you can fax Senator Carper at his Washington office via your
email program for free.

Just paste the following address in your email just like you would any email address, and it will be routed via your email to Carper's fax number.

or just click on the link below, it should open into your email browser:
(remote-printer.sen_carper/[e-mail])



other contact info for Carper
Washington, DC
United States Senate
Washington, DC 20510
202-224-2441
202-228-2190 (fax)
(http://carper.senate.gov/contact.html)

[w4rma]

60. He's from Deleware? He should be targeted for destruction in his primary.

I've never even heard of the guy so he's probably not pulling his weight, anyways.

[Warren Stupidity]

62. Dem Says He's Open to Private Soc. Sec.

WASHINGTON - A second Senate Democrat said Friday he was open to President Bush (news - web sites)'s idea of letting people divert some of their Social Security (news - web sites) taxes to personal retirement accounts as Republican Party leaders tried to allay re-election fears among wavering GOP lawmakers.

Sen. Tom Carper, D-Del., said any plan should be bipartisan, in part to give lawmakers from both parties political cover for supporting major changes to such the popular retirement program.
By LAURA MECKLER, Associated Press Writer
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=512&ncid=718&e=10&u=/ap/20050212/ap_on_go_co/social_security

The article asserts as well that the following DINOs are voicing support for piratization:
Sen. Ben Nelson, D-Neb
Democratic Rep. Allen Boyd of Florida

[Califooyah Operative]

63. someone needs a writing/calling/talking to.....nt

[fasttense]

64. Note his slant on SS

He's more concerned about political cover than about if it is a good plan.

[Warren Stupidity]

65. exactly

Here is the start of my letter:

Dear Senator Carper,

Grow some balls. Senator Boxer can help you.


Good start?

[applegrove]

66. The problem is in what Bush will not say: American Economy will Tank

The problem is in what Bush will not say: American Economy will Tank in the next 50 years. The only thing keeping you from recession today is War.

You do not want to be invested in a Super Nova as it begins to die.

That is the real story. Why Bush 2042 number is so low: America will not grow like it did in the 20th Century. And why they want you in the stock market: invested in the World Stock Market - your money at least will have a chance to grow.

Bush lies by not telling you their estimates for how the USA will not be a "growing place" in the next 50 years. Why they also like the idea of perpetual war!!!

[dandrhesse]

67. Here's the deal, when the GOP critcized the AARP that told the whole story

The sole function of the AARP is to protect the interests of Seniors, so for the GOP to send what was reportedly a "scathing" letter to the AARP telling them their stance was wrong, it is just incredible. Who will be next? Unicef? Habitat for Humanity?

[BlueInRed]

68. kick

:kick: