Chávez arming to fight attack by U.S. -Miami Herald

[Rose Siding]

CARACAS - Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez has long been known for his harsh anti-Bush rhetoric. But now he's stepping up military plans and weapons purchases to match his combative tone, and he is worrying U.S. policymakers.
...
''We have to embrace socialism as a thesis,'' he continued, in what observers said was his most direct public reference to his socialist views. He later added that any attack on Cuba or Venezuela ``would be an attack on both.''
...
Still, his latest comments worry U.S. policymakers, mostly because they coincide with his push to obtain new weaponry and forge a new national military doctrine that would prepare his country for a war of resistance against a possible U.S. invasion.

Simultaneously, Chávez has said he is placing the 50,000 soldiers of the military reserve directly under his control and organizing his civilian supporters into armed militias to be known as ``popular defense units.''

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/10881582.htm

*understated subtitle of next portion of article: "OIL A COMPLICATION"

[RagingInMiami]

1. Let him "bring it on".

[cthrumatrix]

8. TIMEOUT --- PR spin for the US to attack and overthrow Chavez ...AGAIN

[Toucano]

28. Just a few elements still missing

Wait until we see:

Chavez conspired to buy yellow-cake uranium.
Chavez gassed his own people 20 years ago.
A rape room ribbon cutting or two.
Chavez will only accept Euros for oil payment.

Then I'll have more confidence that it's truly "on".

[despairing optimist]

30. You forgot Chavez threw premies out of their incubators onto the floor

Where is that Kuwaiti princess, and can she be persuaded to become a Venezuelan?

[Toucano]

34. Indeed I did forget. My bad.

Now where's my promotion?!!!

[Say_What]

51. More PROPAGANDA from the Oligarch's Daily (the Miami Herald)

How f*ck'n predictable after the remarks that Condi_LIES_A_LOT made during confirmation hearings: ...Venezuela has to be viewed as a "negative force" in Latin America. Ms. Rice said the government of President Hugo Chavez is negative in its effects on neighboring countries, negative in embracing the only undemocratic nation in the region - an apparent reference to Cuba - and negative in its suppression of opposing voices. She said the relationship between the leftist Mr. Chavez and Cuban leader Fidel Castro has been "deeply troubling." Earlier in the hearing, Ms. Rice described Mr. Chavez as a democratically elected leader who does not govern in a democratic way.


<clips>

U.S. Media: Chávez-Bashing of Old Begins Anew

(The original version of this article, entitled “Oil Calms Troubled Reporting,” appeared in the December 2004 issue of Extra!, the magazine of the U.S. media watch group Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (http://www.fair.org/). The article has been revised and updated.)

After the landslide victory of Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez Frias in the country’s August 15 recall referendum, U.S. press coverage of Venezuelan politics took a brief turn for the better. After it became clear that Chávez was likely to win, the New York Times offered much more balanced coverage than in April 2002, when the Times’ editorial board joined the Bush administration in temporarily supporting a failed coup against Chávez.

The lull in press hostility appears to have been partly the result of instability in international oil markets. The brief change in press coverage coincided with the Bush administration’s own decision to recognize Chávez’s electoral victory so as to temporarily stabilize Venezuela politically and thereby assure the steady and continued flow of oil from that country.

However, a longer-term analysis of the sources that U.S. correspondents have relied upon—and the hemispheric policies that the U.S. media, government and corporations jointly support—reveals a stark media bias against the Chávez government. While the outcome of the referendum briefly tempered U.S. press hostility toward Chávez, recent media commentaries suggest that media hostility has returned with a vengeance.

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=1374

[w4rma]

17. Venezuela just wants to be left alone. It's obvious that they are not

interested in oppressing their citizens or invading and occupying their neighbors, or anyone else. Venezuela is also a Jeffersonian-like democratic-republic with a popularly elected President. Venezuela is the definition of a law abiding nation.

[genius]

18. It sounds like he's got word we're planning to attack him.

Based on our prior coup attempts there, it wouldn't surprise me.

[MnFats]

2. 'when the brave venezuelans stand for their freedom.'.....

'we will stand with them.'


oh, here we go.
How long before we discover that the Venezuelan govt. tried to buy yellowcake?

War without end, amen.

[shrike]

3. Hell, I don't blame him.

His country has oil, he's anti-bush. I'd arm, too.

[firebee]

9. Bingo!!!!

That's what Chavez and a number of other nations around the world are recognizing. If you have oil and you're not letting the United States rape you for it, you better arm up and prepare to defend yourself from the United States.

[truth2power]

48. This shouldn't surprise anyone.

This is the kind of world Bush <cursed be his name> has created. Any country that doesn't have some sort of massive weapons or nukes will be ground into dust.

[hiley]

11. yes what esle could Chavez do

bush keeps trying to take him out but the people bring him back to power. go chavez ! how could anyone blame him ?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

26. Think of it as the Second Amendment for countries. (nt)

[bvar22]

40. EXACTOMUNDO,

Why should defensive armaments and the arming of a well regulated militia be of ANY concern to the USA

......unless we have some plans to....

[Democrat 4 Ever]

4. Does anyone see the possibility of World War III with the roles

reversed this time and the US plays the part of the Axis? And the entire world lining up against us to defeat the power hunger war mongering assholes? Everybody in the world will not get on board with our world-conquering, religious-spouting, faux freedom agenda. Guys, despite what King Chimpy says (and remember Hitler said it too back in the 30s) world domination and our form of government is not our God given right to foist on anyone else. I know the rest of the world gets this but does anyone in DC?

Do you think that Chimpy suffers from a form of syphilis like Hitler and he has just gone completely paranoid and insane? (sarcasm, sorta...)

[kypper]

6. I've been saying this for years

Hitler started the exact same way.
I don't buy into the pundits who cry foul every time the comparison is made - if the shoe fits, weari t.

[MsMagnificent]

27. Oh yeah...

...the US thinks because it is the last superpower it can do whatever it wants... well when the rest of the countries of the world band together against the US, we are puny.

It is so frightening being an American, right now. With the sins of the Bush administration, it feels like we're all doomed to hell just for being citizens. This isn't what my father, and many others of the greatest generation, fought for in WWII; and indeed previous wars.

Instead of forcing other countries to be "Free" according to the vision of 51%, shouldn't we be respectful of the right of each nation to decide their own self-determination?

As for what's wrong with Bush, it's the worst malady that can strike a human being and interestingly one of the seven deadly sins:
Greed

[Spazito]

5. Unlike the bush cabal, Chavez has learned from history...

and is not going to be overthrown by the US without a fight. He has defeated the effort twice already and knows that he is a threat to the US goal of hegemony of Central and South America. Go Chavez!!

[bvar22]

42. They are VERY worried.

The populist reforms instituted by Chaves in Venezuela, and funded with Oil Money could sweep through ALL the Latin Plutocracies. Popular democratic reforms would allow the people to VOTE OUT the USA supported, right wing, IMF WTO oligarchs and replace them with popularly elected governemnts of the people, by the people, and for the people.

OMG...Something like that (of the people, by the people, for the people) might even catch on here! Why that's (EEEEKKK!) Socialism!!!

[IndianaGreen]

7. Perhaps we progressives need a modern version of the Lincoln Brigade

When the Fascist Francisco Franco launched an attack against the democratically elected Spanish Republic with the military support of Hitler and Mussolini, American progressives formed the Abraham Lincoln Brigade. The Lincoln Brigade was the first American outfit to fight the Nazis in Spain before the start of the Second World War.

As Republican Spain, Chavez's Venezuela is under assault by the 21st century version of the Fascists and Nazis. We must not remain silent as many Americans were at the Fascist takeover of Europe. Had our government gone to war on the side of the Spanish Republic, we would have prevented the horrors of the Holocaust.

There is a website dedicated to the patriots of the Lincoln Brigade:

http://www.alba-valb.org/

[mitchum]

21. A very good idea, IndianaGreen

I have also been thinking about this for awhile

[Toucano]

29. Great minds think alike.

I was just discussing this with a friend not 30 minutes ago!

[Swamp Rat]

73. The Lincoln Brigade, of which Paul Robeson was a member...

Paul Robeson Centennial Celebration:
http://www.cpsr.cs.uchicago.edu/robeson/


Americans who supported the Republic:

(snip)

The reaction of Western governments to the war was ambivalent and duplicitous. They agreed to a nonintervention pact and the United States embargoed aid to the Spanish belligerents, policies intended to de-escalate the war but whose selective enforcement undermined the Republic. While Germany and Italy supplied Franco with troops, tanks, submarines, and a modernized air force (the first to bomb open cities, most notably Guernica), the nonintervention policy only prevented arms from reaching the Republic. General Motors, Texaco, and other American corporations further assisted Franco with trucks and fuel. The Soviet Union and Mexico were the only governments to sell armaments to the Republic, although much of them were impounded at the French border. Throughout the war, a vociferous political and cultural movement in America rallied to the Republic by raising money for medical aid and demanding an end to the embargo. Such participants as Albert Einstein, Dorothy Parker, Gene Kelly, Paul Robeson, Helen Keller, A. Philip Randolph, and Gypsy Rose Lee reflected the wide base of support for the Republican cause.

(snip)

http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/88/abe-brigade.html

[Turley]

76. So when are you signing up?

You can get everything you need down at the surplus store. I'm sure the Gov't will provide you with a decent firearm.

So when are you shipping out? Or are you just blowing smoke?

[Massachusetts]

10. "Chávez arming to fight attack by U.S. -Miami Herald"

CHINA will not let this happen (attack by Bu$hco), they have a vested interest in Venezuela.

[cliss]

25. Bush, because of his stupidity,

is going to force the issue. I've read that Chavez has signed a deal to sell oil to China. They are becoming close allies.

Who can blame Chavez? I would do everything in my power to thwart these power-oil-hungry maniacs.

Now, I did read that in the US Game of World Chess, the U.S. MUST control as many oil producing countries as possible, in order to RULE THE WORLD. They're trying for:

a) the Middle East. They're doing pretty well. At this point, only Syria and Iran are not US puppets.

b) Russia - can't be conquered. Need to be friends as long as possible with Pooty-Poot.

c) Venezuela. Must have Venezuela, Chavez or not.

d) Africa. I've read they're finding more oil there. I believe Darfur has some substantial deposits. Coincidence?

[Minstrel Boy]

12. Them Venooozalians is just a three day march from the Rio Grande! n/t

[David__77]

13. I am proud of Hugo Chavez, a true patriot.

He is defending national sovereignty and dignity and unfolding a truly democratic revolution. He is learning the correct lessons. He must create a popular militia at all costs! And continue transforming the old military into a people's military. He needs to put national defense as a priority along with the revolution's other goals.

[VegasWolf]

14. Much better than simply sitting there and waiting for bush to come steal

their oil.

[oasis]

15. Rumsfeld's special ops unit is now justified in taking that commie out.

Chavez has thrown down the gauntlet and we can't wait for another 9/11.

That's what the Bush propaganda machine at Fox will be grinding out.

[KingoftheJungle]

16. We need to steal Chavez for ourselves

Chavez for president!

[Zhade]

19. Ah, the Miami Herald, boon for rightwing CANF terrorists.

Yeah, they're REAL objective.

:eyes:

[applegrove]

20. Another Positive Bush Policy Initiative - NOT

When was Venezuela ever a problem? Just let the socialist run the country for a decade and then he will get booted out. The same as your Utopia *** Mr. Bush!

[mom cat]

22. After what happened to Haiti, Chavez has every reason to be concerned.

The US has shown repeatedly that it has no qualms about overthrowing democratic leaders.

[Say_What]

62. Uncle Sam's been overthrowing LatAm democratic leaders since the 1950s

and probably before. Decades of propped up dictators all over Latin America and thousands of dead and disappeared thanks to US military support and CIA backed coups. Guatemala, El Salvador, Chile, etc, etc, etc. :puke: :puke: :puke:

..."United Fruit, backed by the CIA, decided that elected President Jacob Arbenz held Guatamala "in the grip of a Russian-controlled dictatorship" and overthrew the country's constitutional democracy in 1954. The succession of corrupt military dictators ruled Guatemala for over 30 years, one anti-communist tyrant after another receiving U.S. support, aid, and training...."

http://home.iprimus.com.au/korob/fdtcards/CentralAmerica.html

[Mika]

23. Remember. The Miami Herald is Otto Reich's choice for planting stories.

Mr Reich used the Miami Herald during the anti Sandinista ops (and was indicted for it).


This story is is in full neocon mode.

---

[Gyre]

24. Nothing but admiration for him.

Unlike the chimp, he can put two and two together: 1.Imperialistic bellicose giant to the north with a captive population and a serious addiction to oil. And 2. Venzuela's own oil supply and you get "war". Or that's what we call it. I call it armed robbery. He is in a particulary serious position because of America's long history of attempting to exert emminent domain over central and south american countries, by force when necessary. To wit; Panama wrenched from Columbia by force, Spain attacked to release it's power in the Carribean, Mexico attacked to steal the west. Panama later on. I'm sure it's a long but indistinguished list of victims.

On the other hand, America is casualty averse, particulary when the cause is a fabrication. If they can defend themselves by giving us a sting the hungry bear isn't usually "that hungry" anymore. The economic alliance with China Chavez is trying to forge would go a long way towards guaranteeing freedom from American piracy. Don't think the neocons aren't aware of that, and that the timetable to when China would intervene militarily on behalf of Venzuela (progression to an economic/military alliance) is probably estimated as being pretty short in relative terms.

Gyre

[Lizardking]

31. Hope he gets nukes

It might be the only way to keep Venezuela free.

[underthedome]

47. What a dumb comment n/t

n/t

[IndianaGreen]

66. Nukes are the only deterrent to US aggression

Nations such as Brazil and Iran will need nukes to protect their civilian population from the havoc the US has brought to Iraq.

I am all for nukes to stop Bush!

[schrodingers_cat]

32. "Chavez: US a terrorist state"

"Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has branded the United States a "terrorist state" while rejecting Washington's criticism of Caracas for its arms purchase from Russia.


Chavez, a fierce critic of US President George Bush and the US-led war in Iraq, on Saturday brushed aside US opposition to the agreement to buy 100,000 automatic rifles and about 40 military helicopters from Moscow.

"One has to ask whether there was transparency in the invasion of Iraq. The world knows President Bush lied openly about Iraq having chemical weapons," Chavez said.

"They keep on bombing cities, killing children, they have become a terrorist state," he said."

(more...)
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/E903D3CD-F65A-45B8-91CE-9956EE5C0169.htm

[Say_What]

63. "The world knows President Bush lied openly about Iraq having chemical..."

Great quote:

..."One has to ask whether there was transparency in the invasion of Iraq. The world knows President Bush lied openly about Iraq having chemical weapons," Chavez told reporters while visiting victims of recent floods in Venezuela.

"They keep on bombing cities, killing children; they've become a terrorist state," he said. ...

---

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez carries a child while visiting flood affected residents in Araira near Caracas, February 12, 2005. Chavez branded the U.S. a "terrorist state" on Saturday and rejected as meddling Washington's criticism of a recent arms purchase from Russia. The U.S. government, which often clashes with Chavez over his populist policies and close ties to Cuba, says it is troubled that Russian rifles bought by Venezuela could be used to aid leftist Colombian rebels it says are terrorists. Photo by Miraflores Palace/Reuters

[cal04]

33. Castro Warns U.S. Against Plot on Chávez

President Fidel Castro warned the United States on Saturday against plotting to kill his ally President Hugo Chávez of Venezuela.

"I say to world public opinion: if they assassinate Chávez, the responsibility will fall squarely on the president of the United States, George W. Bush," Mr. Castro said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/13/international/americas/13castro.html

[Bouncy Ball]

58. Hmm and Chavez said basically the same thing about Cuba.

They are very much united, it seems.

bushco would do well to visit the world of reality for a second and take note of that little factoid.

[Bouncy Ball]

59. Oh and btw, sounds like if Chavez is assassinated by ANYONE

it will be blamed on bushco.

Sweet. Or not.

[Vladimir]

35. I hope they are developing nukes

because if they are serious about stopping an invasion (not that I think there will be one but this is a different story), that seems to be the surefire way to do it.

[Say_What]

53. Only US pResident Chimpy bin Laden is that stooopid...

:nuke:

[LinuxInsurgent]

36. wow...

i'm surprised he used the world "socialism"...I'd say that was not a good move.

Chavez has a lot of left supporters that fear using the "socialist" word for fear of being stigmatized as "another Cuba". If Chavez is smart, he'll take the best of the Cuban Revolution, but avoid its dictatorial, one party mistakes. So far..he's done good with that...remained constitutional, held referendums, and won fair and square through the support of the poor. That's the way to legitimately be a Third World progressive leader...

careful threading, Chavez...careful threading...

[IndianaGreen]

37. Capitalism is barbarism, as evidenced by Bush

Socialism is humanism.

Despite the best efforts of the American educational system, I don't fear socialism. It is capitalism that we must fear. If you doubt that, just look at the misery and destruction that the Capitalist-in-Chief is spreading all over the world and in our own country.

Now that we know that our much ballyhooed democracy is nothing but a sham and an illusion, what do the defenders of this dying system have to say in its defense.

[Vladimir]

38. Who exactly are you to declare

what the 'legitimate' way to be a Third World leader is? Haven't we patronised them enough?

[LinuxInsurgent]

39. well...perhaps a clarification is in order...

I'm Latin American, first of all. My people is theirs. The reason I thought that using the word "socialism" was not a good political move is because, EVEN in Latin American circles (excluding the American perspective for a moment), the word socialism is thoroughly feared...for most Latin Americans, socialism = Castro-type dictatorship.

Many left-wing democratic socialists (like me), who believe in largely the same humanistic goals that Castro preaches in his speeches (fairness in global trading, human good as the end, rather than profit, etc.) fear that all rhetoric of "socialism" or "socialistic" visions will automaticlaly be tarred and feathered as "Castroism".

These are not idle fears...Nicaragua's Sandinistas, Juan Bosch's regime in The Dominican Republic, Allende in Chile, the Jewel Movement in Grenada, and now Chavez in Venezuela ALL felt the consequences of being perceived "socialist".

Unfortunately, at this point and time, there is, first of all, no tangible definition of the "new socialism" that informs much of the global peace and fair trade movement. Undoubtedly, they speak of anti-capitalist alternatives, of which I completely support...but the word "socialism" is not used by many in these circles precisely because of its association with dictatorial, state-directed "state capitalist" regimes (such as the Soviet Union, Vietnam, Cuba, China (before Deng Xiao Ping), etc.)

What we seek may be termed easier in more humanistic labels, "libertarian socialism, democratic socialism, humanistic economics, fair trade, etc."

But...Chavez, at this point, needs to be careful in what terms he uses to define HIS revolution, which may or may not be beneficial as a model for other Latin American countries. For now...he's been on a good path...he's kept democracy and transparency as values in his government...he's submitted himself to the referendum of his people...he's reformed the distribution of state resources to benefit the many poor, etc. He's on the right track...but he's also made substantial contacts with the Cuban regime...and the Cuban regime has reciprocated. I hold no ill will with the Cuban people...and even its leadership, as much as I disagree with the dictatorship of one man. But...both Chavez and Castro...if they wish to capture the imagination of Latin America and the world, must show us that their definition of "socialism" is in league with the one largely adopted by the world social movement. And that vision is democratic AND economically fair...it is not for Castro dictatorship...nor Latin American "caudillo" populism (which is what Chavez is at this point). Leftists may sympathize or romanticize Castro's revolution...but let us not forget that Castro, at the end of it all, failed to produce a democratic regime in his country. It is a dictatorship...even if he attempts to fashion it out to be a benevolent, good-intentioned dictatorship.

I do not pretend to patronize my own people...but I do wish them a careful voyage toward a better Latin America...ultimately a good voyage for all of us on this planet.

On socialism, let my feelings be clear. I think capitalism is an untenable economic order...for a lot of reasons. It is unfair to the majority of the world's population (a moral violation). It is extremely wasteful and inefficient in distribution of resources...and I think it is ultimately untenable from an ecological point of view. Our current oil-based economies are untenable..Peak Oil is coming. Our current food-production policies are untenable...ranching in the Amazon kills our ecosystems and leads to global warming...our consumption patterns are untenable...the pollution of our current vehicles kills the air and our environment.

I don't think we need to go back to the stone-age to solve our problems...but I do think that a radical shift towards adopting certain standards of consumption and energy production needs to occur...and under capitalism, they will not.

Ultimately...I believe that we adopt socialism...OR WE DIE.

Simple as that. I hope that clarified my position on Chavez and his usage of the "socialist" term. I'm a socialist myself...but i know that words have different meanings for different people...and that sometimes, knowing what you are doesn't exactly translate to those who hear your self-description. Were I to say I was socialist...publicly...in an American mall...chances are that 80% of those in attendance would be turned off by my declaration...that perception is what we always have to have in mind when we take political stances. We should not ignore the power of words...and Chavez should be careful

[bvar22]

43. Well said, LinuxInsurgent.

I understand!

Viva Chavez!

of the people, by the people, for the people!

Hope it catches on here!

[Vladimir]

75. I think socialism has been regarded as a dirty word for too long

and I think the left in general has been too ready to compromise on what terminology it uses. Castro's rule in Cuba is something the left should be proud of, IMO, not afraid to mention. The fallacy, as I see it, consists of starting from the assumption that liberal democracy is the only form of democracy on the market, or what is more that it is the best form. Cuba may not be a liberal democracy, but its a damn sight more democratic than many countries which pretend to have meaningful elections on a regular basis (hmm, who could I be thinking of here?). I am sorry if I seem a bit harsh on you, as we have no fundamental disagreement, but I am sick and tired of apologising for leaders whose only crime is that they refused to play by the West's rules while having both hands tieed behind their backs...

[Bouncy Ball]

60. Uh, dude

a) he can say whatever he wants and
b) unlike here, in other countries they are well aware of the fact that socialism does not equal Satan.

:eyes:

[Bridget Burke]

80. Socialism is not the opposite of Democracy.

It's the opposite of capitalism. Quite a few countries manage to combine the two economic systems.

Of course, some consider Social Security as socialistic--one reason it's now under attack.

In another thread, you were dismissive of the nun who was murdered in Brazil--she fought for the environment. Thankfully, not everybody is willing to keep their mouths shut.

[paineinthearse]

41. This deserves "greatest page" status but

It is >24 hours old.

Watch for a carrier task force deployment to the Carribbean.

[savethesea]

44. surface to air missiles headed north from Central America

So, as the bush administration continues the "war on terror", andthe "war on drugs" ...new sources of terror are brewing in Latin America, even while Bush attempts to destroy a democracy there (Venezuela)

This deserves a new thread, but I can't make one, I am new here.

It is known in Nicaragua that members of Nicaragua military have probably been selling surface to air missiles to the black market for some time now. Now, AT LEAST TWO SAM-7 SURFACE TO AIR MISSILES ARE IN THE HANDS of a mexican narco trafficking ring. According to a report today in Nicaragua's La Prensa (citing the Mexican newspaper, Universal).

If you can read spanish you can get details at:
http://www.laprensa.com.ni/nacionales/nacionales-20050213-07.html

I fly all the time, personally this freaks me out. We know full well that narcos would be happy to pass these on to terrorists.

[iwantmycountryback]

45. Chavez had 50 pounds of mustard gas on a turkey farm

We must protect our nation

[brentspeak]

46. This guy is just one step away from becoming a Latin American Mao

"Popular defense units?" Attacks from the US? What's next, reeducation camps? Dissenters wearing placards and dunce caps, paraded on streets?

If even the Stalin-ordered bullets to the back of heads during the Spanish Civil War didn't awaken the Lincoln Brigaders from their own blind naivete, what hope is there for some of the radicals (ie. non-Democrats) on this site?

[RadiDem]

49. Huh ? ? ? You DOUBT Bush* would attack Venezuela ?

The US under Chmpy funded a failed coup against Chavez just a few yers ago .

[TankLV]

50. Suuuure - just because YOU say so!

as well as your other assinine comments about the noble Lincoln Brigade.

Got any other right-wing talking points handy?

Only YOU could extrapolate the fight against facism and the Nazi's to SUPPORT of Stalin and his policies.

Just like the FDR, the US and the rest of the allies did in WWII, huh?

Simply amazing.

[brentspeak]

54. Simply amazing your utter no-knowledge of the topic I'm talking about

The Lincoln Brigades, as well as most of the foreign brigades on the Republican side, were all assigned Soviet-controlled "political officers" whose job it was to "maintain discipline" within the units. That "discipline" usually manifested itself as a bullet-in-the-brain. The Lincoln Brigaders showed up in Spain thinking all they were doing was fighting Franco and the Nationalists; they ended up as useful idiots for Joseph Stalin, who, it was recently disclosed, was secretly selling arms to Franco for big $$$.

If you don't believe me, believe Ernst Hemingway and George Orwell, both of whom fought alongside the Republicans and both of whom left Spain completely disillusioned.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

78. Don't hold you breath waiting for the "reeducation camps".

No, wait, I take that back. DO hold your breath. They'll come in no time, I guarantee you! :evilgrin:

[Comadreja]

52. Any evidence Bush is moving to invade?

I haven't seen anything in the media hyping Venezuela's threat to America, With Iraq and Iran on the Imperial front burners, I doubt even the NeoCons would be stupid enough to open major hostilities in Latin America at this time.

[Say_What]

56. JASUS... what the f*ck do you think they've been trying to do since 4/02?

US media propaganda over and over ever since the failed coup in April 2002.

USAID supporting the opposition of Venezuela

Sable rattling by CONDISLEEZA during the confirmation hearings.

Billions funneled to Colombia for "Plan Columbia" aka Plan of Death and repeated border problems between the two countries

Press trying to tie Venezuela with the FARC--the other attempt around 2002 saying that terrorists were active in VZ and that Chavez was supporting them failed

The list goes on and on...

[sphincter]

55. How long will it take....

...until someone in the White House starts looking in to the alleged Venezuela-Al Qaeda ties?

[Say_What]

57. Already happened nobody bought it...

<clips>

...Meanwhile a recent report in US News and World Reports tiled “Terror Close to Home” charges that Venezuela is emerging as “a potential hub of terrorism in the Western Hemisphere.” The article claims Chavez has provided assistance to Islamic fundamentalists.

The magazine claims that Venezuela has given social security-like cards to thousands of foreigners including many from Middle Eastern nations including Syria, Pakistan, Egypt and Lebanon. The U.S. government has warned that by giving out these ID documents, terrorists could more easily obtain Venezuelan passports and U.S. visas.

US News and World Reports also claims that US intelligence officials are investigating whether a Venezuelan of Arab descent named Hakim Mamad al Diab Fatah had ties to any of the Sept. 11 hijackers. One official described him as a person of interest.

The article goes on to claim close ties between Chavez’s government and the Columbian rebel group FARC.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/10/03/1531245

[Bouncy Ball]

61. ohmygod

the only thing I noticed in that article was someone named Cheveze saying SOCIALSIM!!!! WHAT COUNTRY R THEY IN? BOMB EM NOW BEFORE THEY KILLL US ALL!!! THE POWER OF PRIDE!! REMEMBER 9/11!!!!

/freepermode off

[SheepBootHero]

64. Chávez has said he is placing the 50,000 soldiers of the military reserve

How cute. Does anyone here have a problem if our President did the same?

''We have to embrace socialism as a thesis,'' he continued, in what observers said was his most direct public reference to his socialist views. He later added that any attack on Cuba or Venezuela ``would be an attack on both.''

This guy sounds like a loose cannon. Communism and socialism are dead horses that should be left to rot in their graves instead of failing to learn from their 100% failure rate.

[loudsue]

65. Social Democracy flourishes all over Europe....and that's exactly

what Chavez has in mind....except he has plenty of oil to help support is people with (like the State of Texas formerly did, before george bush "privatized" the Texas owned oil wells).

Social Democracy IS THE FUTURE of the world. Capitalism, the cruelest and most ruthless economic system of all, is only going to make terrorists of the world's people.

If people pay taxes, they should all benefit from those taxes... not just corporations who profit from war and other forms of corporate welfare.

:kick::kick::kick:

[SheepBootHero]

69. Socialism is NOT Social Democracy

Big difference and Chavez has no intentions for a Social Democracy.

His ego and desire to be worshipped is too big.

[trotsky]

70. Oh, really?

Did FOX News tell you that?

[loudsue]

72. Chavez, if you'll study what he's doing, is EXACTLY Social Democracy.

He's using the word "socialist" in order to counter the golden calf of "capitalism" (which is actually corporatism) that is worshiped in the United States. He's trying to show that "socialism" doesn't have to be a bad word anymore, and that using the term shouldn't get someone bombed or blackballed by some wannabe cowboy from Texas, and his rich friends.

:kick::kick::kick:

[Vladimir]

79. You're right!

about socialism and social democracy that is (which is exactly why jaded commies like myself get very tetchy when people extolt the virtues of Sweden to us). As for Chavez's ego... if you got it, flaunt it baby! And he most certainly has a pair of somethings your leaders seem to lack...

[IndianaGreen]

68. The only loose canon is YOUR President Bush

Bush is the war criminal that has murdered and tortured civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan by the tens of thousands. Bush deserves the same fate as the Nazi war criminals at Nuremberg.

[oasis]

71. Chavez seeks 50k troops to protect his country. Bush drafts to invade

much weaker nations. Do you see the difference?

[Bridget Burke]

81. Some consider Social Security a bit "socialistic"

Do you wish to abolish that, as well?

Socialism is alive & well; generally, in countries where capitalism also exists.

[raysr]

67. Yeah,

he had the "unheard-of" idea of giving all the poor people some land. By the way, what's wrong with socialism? Unless you're rich.

[ausiedownunderground]

74. Can America afford to run 2 Guerrilla wars at the same time?

Venezuela has been preparing for a guerrilla war for quite some time. This war will be fought in the jungle - not the desert. "The Bush Gang" has been trying to get Uribe's Colombian Right Wing Death Squads to try and create as much trouble as possible in Venezuela with little success. The colombian army trained by up to 1,000 US troops is struggling to contain the FARC guerrillas let alone take on what is fast becoming a well equipped Guerrilla army in Venezuela who unlike the Iraqi Guerrillas will have a charismatic leader and well organized command structure. Huge weapon stock piles are being stored in the jungle for just such a war. This will only bring more death to America's door i feel. Are these wars really worth it? How many Cuban "mercs" in Venezuela?

[martymar64]

77. Venezuela has every right to defend itself

As a sovereign nation, an invasion by the US would be primae facie illegal, making the US subject to whatever sanctions that can be applied, including embargoes, and the dumping of Chinese held US dollars. We as a country have left ourselves extremely vulnerable to economic sanctions. Should the creditor nations decide that the US has ultimately "gone too far", the damage they could do without firing a shot is staggering. The US could collapse quickly, a la Soviet Union style.