NYT: 'New' Rumsfeld Is Seeking Stronger Ties With Europe

[kskiska]

MUNICH, Feb. 12 - Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld returned Saturday to the scene of his most brutal and bitter clash with Europe, which occurred two years ago, suggesting that he was a new man eager to forge a stronger trans-Atlantic relationship in the second Bush administration.

"When I first mentioned I might be traveling in France and Germany, it raised some eyebrows," he joked in his speech at the annual Munich Conference on Security Policy. "One wag said it ought to be an interesting trip after all that has been said. I thought for a moment and then I replied, 'Oh, that was the old Rumsfeld.' "

The line got a laugh from the audience of specialists on European and American national security, business and politics.

(snip)

But while Mr. Rumsfeld joked and smiled on his charm offensive in Europe, he had no new policy substance.

Most pointedly, when Germany called on the United States on Saturday to support European negotiations to persuade Iran to abandon a crucial part of its nuclear program, Mr. Rumsfeld refused to endorse the initiative.

more…
http://nytimes.com/2005/02/13/international/europe/13munich.html

[applegrove]

1. Both Rumsfield and Kim want the people around them to be:

"Of One Mind"!!

[GoCubsGo05]

2. WMD?

That was the "old" reason.

[Conservativesux]

17. Very Orwellian, this * gang. eom.

[Skip Intro]

3. I cannot believe how arrogant this gang is

They just think they can say, "lets just forget things" and go on.

What the hell kind of world lets someone like rumsfeld get speical treatment. Why the hell does he deserve speical treatment - a "second chance?"

What kind of sick charade is this?

Hey rummy,

Own up to being the OLD rumsfeld, you fucking lying coward.

[Conservativesux]

16. Every criminal wants a second chance. Why should Rummy be different?

[98geoduck]

4. Wouldn't that be like supporting communism? (sarcasm alert)

[paineinthearse]

6. Let's see.....

Cuba is communist, so we don't trade.

China is communist, they hold MFM status, buy $billions$ of treasury notes, and flood our markets with cheep goods produced by slave labor.

Go figure.

[paineinthearse]

5. DooooHHHH

'Oh, that was the old Rumsfeld.'

[koopie57]

7. You can't make this stuff up

What should be done is to turn the antics of this administration into a soap opera format. Days of Our Bushies. I know .. the first reality show/soap opera. People would watch. Actually, if it wasn't all true, it would be fun to follow it.

[Mockingbird]

62. SOAP - Bert lives in the white house...

The TV series SOAP had Bert -

the character who would get anxious & wave his hands in front of his own face to make himself "INVISIBLE."
But that describes BUSH.


You don't think they cloned Rumsfeld, like Dolly do you?
But this is the kinder & gentler Rummie?

[KerryReallyWon]

8. Why is Rumfield "new"??

Just because the NYT says it? They are trying to re-invent him. lIke he is to be marketed or something. how sick

[Mockingbird]

54. Maybe its like that OLD joke...

THE NEW RUMMY...

Maybe its a vatiant of The French Foreign Legion joke.


Stuck out in the middle of nowhere for weeks without even a change of clothes.

The Commandant announces that he has good news & bad news for the troops:


The good news - everybody gets a change of underwear.

The bad news: Rummy, you change with Cheney, GeeDubya you change with Condi, Karl you change with Wolfie...

[Judi Lynn]

9. Looks like "New Rumsfeld" has forgotten "New Europe."

He should go peddle his wares there.

This _Bushregime-kissing by the NY Times is almost embarrassing to read. From the article:

His appearance was only decided late Thursday, and it seemed intended to reinforce Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's message on her recent European tour to convince America's traditional allies that the United States takes them seriously. The Europeans are so hungry for attention and respect from Washington that some participants said that the fact that Mr. Rumsfeld showed up at all was important.

Apparently they have no pride? The Times no doubt overestimated our regime's appeal elsewhere, AGAIN.

[amandabeech]

18. I'd like to see more support for the conclusion that the Europeans

are hungry for our attention.

Really, this piece is more editorial than news item. I wish that the NYT still knew the difference.

My respect for them has gone downhill very, very rapidly since 2000, and I was once a very enthusiastic reader. Now, I don't feel compelled to read it. It might as well be written by Wolf Blitzer.

[leesa]

49. Make sure they know about your feelings.

[merwin]

10. By 'stronger ties' he means 'metal handcuffs' instead of 'zip ties'

[Kinkistyle]

15. LOL thats hilarious.

Nice one. Made me chuckle out loud :D

[applegrove]

55. The word fascist means "tight bundle of wood"

[driver8]

11. Before the "New Rumsfeld" goes any further, how about we

hold the "old Rumsfeld" accountable for the lies and war crimes he has committed? These guys think they can say, "Sorry...we made a mistake. Shit happens..." and all should be forgiven.

I'm sure the "new" Rumsfeld will get us into a "new" war.

[neweurope]

12. "The new Rumsfeld is the old" stated "Spiegel online".

Of course the Europeans were a little desperate - our industry is giving them hell. There is MUCH money (and jobs *sigh*) involved in the US-European relationship!

As to the "new Rusmfeld":
The French representative asked the for EU countries most important question: If Rumsfeld would insist on his old opinion that “The mission determines the coalition” in future or if – as just now promised by that Rice-woman – the NATO members would discuss and decide together. After talking a lot without saying anything Rumsfeld in fact said no: “Sometimes things just have to happen quickly”, ending with insulting the French by arrogantly telling the poor man: “I love open questions. But the construction of your question was not perfect.”

---------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[anarchy1999]

13. Isn't there a song about "living in the twilight zone?" We are there!

Rummi and Condi, making a non-stop tour through Europe and "Iraq". And know Kissinger is meeting with Putin.

Just label me clinically insane, or too smart for my own good. WTF is going on with you, the brain dead peope of the US of A, "God Bless Us All", yellow and red, white and blue ribbon magnet toting, flag waving & flying on your SUV, bunch of morans? (Pod People)

(Yep, I'm losing it, too much time in Bush Country, Pray for us, okay?) Sarcasm off now, no, on, no off, okay, you all decide.

You want the red or blue pill? I wish I'd taken the other one. Is there another color? Saffron, maybe?

[rodeodance]

14. does the Emperors new clothes' ring a bell?

[radfringe]

19. HEY! He forgot Poland!!! (n/t)

[bemildred]

20. Rumsfeld Comes Out Against German Proposal

I guess the conciliating part is done now.

MUNICH, Germany Feb 12, 2005 — Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld on Saturday came out against a German proposal that would create a trans-Atlantic rival to NATO to coordinate and develop policy among alliance nations.

Rumsfeld described the 26-country alliance, created in 1949 to confront the Soviet Union's military strength in the Cold War, as still energetic and vital.

He also said the U.S.-European alliance can withstand its current differences, caused chiefly by opposition to the U.S.-led war in Iraq. In urging unified efforts to defeat terrorism and deter weapons proliferation, Rumsfeld took a conciliatory note toward America's allies in Europe and even made light of his "old Europe" characterization of nations such as France and Germany that opposed U.S. policy in Iraq.

"That was old Rumsfeld," he said, drawing laughs from officials at a security conference. "Our collective security depends on our cooperation and mutual respect and understanding."

ABC

[Lautremont]

21. This is just like this weekend's Doonesbury cartoon.

Chastened Rummy.

[neweurope]

22. "Spiegel online" - which I believe more on this matter than

Reuters etc (this is being posted for the third time) had it a little different. While the American media keep suggesting the Germans want to move away from NATO (which I very much wish they would) the German source says the Germans want to reform NATO:

Struck – who was reading a paper from Schröder who is sick – did NOT suggest a move away from NATO. Schröder is of the opinion that BECAUSE “NATO is no longer the primary venue where trans-Atlantic partners discuss and coordinate strategies," NATO has to be REFORMED. In order to reform NATO Schröder suggests a “high level panel” which should work out some suggestions. That was all.

The French representative asked the for EU countries most important question: If in the future Rumsfeld would insist on his opinion that “The mission determines the coalition” or if – as just now promised by that Rice-woman – the NATO members would in future discuss and decide together. After talking a lot without saying anything Rumsfeld in fact said no: “Sometimes things just have to happen quickly”, ending with insulting the French by arrogantly telling the poor man: “I love open questions. But the construction of your question was not perfect.”

----------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[98geoduck]

32. How much more is Europe going to tolerate from these idiots?

[neweurope]

33. A lot more.

:cry:

------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[applegrove]

57. Taking a page out of Rove's book and using Double Speak ... way to go Rove

[Pam-Moby]

23. This is the chimp's administration

trying to repackage itself. The problem is that it is the same old product with only new faces to appear as if it is a new way that they are traveling. But we all know that his same old evil ways are present and that hopefully the rest of the world will see through this smoke screen of deceit!!!!!

[bpilgrim]

35. actually this is our media LYING to us

as usual :argh:

peace

[applegrove]

58. The rest of the world knows exactly what is going on & are sad for USA

[keopeli]

24. MSM spin spin spin -

caused chiefly by opposition to the U.S.-led war in Iraq.

hmmm...

how about: caused chiefly by catastrophic errors in US judgement resulting in an invasion that could not be legally and ethically defended.

and I think THAT's pretty mild.

Keo

[IndianaGreen]

25. NATO is an American puppet

a means to sell American arms to its members.

There is no need for NATO now. The greatest threat the Europeans face is the Holy American Empire.

[neweurope]

26. I agree. And I wish we'd get the hell out of NATO.

--------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[rfkrfk]

27. Weekend at Nato's

I expect Rummy is having a good time.

[mom cat]

28. Old Rumsfeld - meet the new Rumsfeld -identical to the old Rumsfeld.

[banana republican]

29. I think they have just spent the last of their "Political Capital"

Bush is now bankrupt.

[applegrove]

59. I hope they double speak the hell out of Bush when he visits. That would

be hilarious if they just made fun of him his whole trip.

[LinuxInsurgent]

30. of course Rumsfeld wants NATO

because THEY control NATO. The EU wants to move away so that they can make themselves a power to be reckoned with...i'm sure being called Old Europe stung...and China and Russia are also aligning themselves as well...Europe doesn't want to become an appendage of the United States in an new era of tension with China and Russia...they want to be players too.

If I was the EU, I'd get out of NATO, and form a united army.

[cvoogt]

31. they forgot Canada

. At first I thought he came out against a German proposal to try him on war crimes. Seemed kinda obvious he would oppose that though.

[Disturbed]

34. European nations are going to get tired of...

being greatful to Amerka someday. If they ever decide to allien themselves with China, Russia, Latin and South America there will be a new balance of power on this planet. Seems that the Bush Junta is pushing them towards that break away.

[applegrove]

60. Are you kidding? China is where all the wealth will be. They all love

China. What a stupid, stupid move at this point in time. Where the wealth will all be moving from the West to China, India, Russia & Brazil (because this is where all the growth will be - the West being mature and all). What a horrifylingly, stupid mood!

When England's empire waned - England adapted. Rome didn't.

[proudbluestater]

36. "Meet the new boss." "Same as the old boss."

I see he is not afraid to address the Germans directly now that they have decided to not prosecute him for war crimes. That may be the reason for the brief conciliatory tone.

[applegrove]

56. Why the Germans have not rattled a saber in 60 years! Way to go Rummy!

[globalvillage]

64. Dammit.

Who's the freakin flip-flopper now, a-hole?
What is that, Rummy? Sounds like a GLOBAL TEST to me.
I can't freakin believe it. Someone in the media, WAKE UP ALREADY!!!
This sucks.

[lovuian]

37. Rumsfeld defends U.S. unilateral actions

http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=5e8a39b8069eee8e

Big News Network.com Sunday 13th February, 2005 (UPI)

The United States must sometimes act decisively and unilaterally to save human lives, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said Saturday.

"Sometimes, the United States had to act alone in order to quickly confront security threats or breakdowns of law and order when its allied alliances could not do so fast enough," Rumsfeld told the 41st annual Munich Conference on Security Policy
snip...

"However," he continued, "sometimes the United States had to act in crises quickly, when alliance organizations could not move fast enough. If we had done nothing in Haiti until the Organization of American States decided to do it, more people would have been killed," he said.

more...

I noticed no mention of Iraq cause it didn't save lots of people's lifes. Rumsfeld must think he is talking to the American Congress!!!

[globalvillage]

38. Disclaimer

The above does not apply to talking to N Korea. Only to killing people. -Rummy

[Sparkly]

41. That's right.

"Sometimes the US has to kill people because we don't have a clue how to talk to people."

[IndianaGreen]

39. Rumsfeld sounds like the Nazi defendants at the Nuremberg Trials

Rummy is trying to rationalize his war crimes. This man should be convicted for war crimes and sent to the gallows just as the Nazi criminals.

Just read some of the crimes the Nazis were convicted of and see how they fit Rumsfeld:

1. Conspiracy to commit crimes against peace.

2. Planning and launching wars of aggression.

3. Conspiracy to commit war crimes and crimes against humanity.

a) Murder and ill treatment of civilian population in occupied territories.

b) Deportation of civilian populations of and in Occupied Territories.

c) Murder and ill treatment of prisoners of war.

Sources:

http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/Jodl1.htm

http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/Keitel1.htm#JOINT%20RESPONSIBILITY

[Just Me]

43. The whole neoCON cabal could be charged with those crimes.

It's stunning the murderous jerks are still in charge.

Stunning!!!

[applegrove]

61. Oh - I can see the books being written right now. And each and

every cabal member jumping ship to try and save their reputaions. For the next 40 years - constant book on the neocon cabal and how it happened.

[jrthin]

40. History is replete with

morons trying to defend the indefensible.

[TankLV]

65. Hey, don't forget those morons on this board who defend torture, etc.

Rummy is not alone, by a long shot.

[Gyre]

42. Rumsfeld is an idiot.

Fortunately for him, so are most americans.

Gyre

[applegrove]

63. No they are not - they have just been mislead by the arms & oil

industry. I cannot wait for the great reckoning. Where Americans, because they are human beings and can grow, go: "why did i buy into the patriot the patsy stuff? I am a citizen of the world and a citizen of the earliest democracy. Why did I drink to coolaid?

[TankLV]

66. It will all be too little, too late, just like the Germans after WWII.

Of this I am certain.

We haven't reached "bottom" yet.

The American sheeple ARE stupid - more than half of them!

[applegrove]

69. I know you are frustrated - but it will not be as bad as that - there will

not be a huge holocaust. There have been some dumb wars and some dumberass political posturing and grandiose utopias taken action on - but I think the reality of actually having 'motivated' their enemies & disgusted their allies is beginning to sink in. What I mean by Germans after WWII is the stupid (non war criminals) ones - who claimed not to have known what was going on but sent their kids to Nazi Youth and fought a war and voted for the monsters and fell for the propaganda - and then after the War didn't quite know what to do with themselves. They had to wander around like Amnesiacs having lost so much reality to the years Hitler was in power. (So the CEOs may be wandering around the country in a decade saying to themselves: "why did I go for that tax break - it started class warfare" or "why did I take so much money for a ceo job of a small company - it is really henious that I took so much. All my friends were doing it but it gutted America at a time when it was loosing its dominance in the world and now my kids will have to pay for all the wars".

Neocons now have a little bit of a history. They have some enemies and people willing to listen to their enemies. And now that we know Rummy is planning on running little "coup squads" - well we can bring the stories of all those dirty little democracy topples up - because there is a long history of that. As hard as they try to never say anything on camera and never put anything down on paper of any substance 'so that they can always be right' there are a whole bunch of witnesses to their behaviour and planting a new reality is not as easy when you are dealing with long term memories of many people. Those are not so easily ADDied.

[spanone]

44. B U L L S H I T. Rumsfeld is as dangerous as ever. Maybe more.

This man should be institutionalized but instead he is in charge of the largest war machine on earth.

[Spazito]

48. I agree, he is very dangerous, read this Op/Ed I found

Paranoia grips the U.S. capital

snip

Life imitates art. This week, former military intelligence analyst William Arkin revealed a hitherto unknown directive, with the Orwellian name "JCS Conplan 0300-97," authorizing the Pentagon to employ special, ultra-secret "anti-terrorist" military units on American soil for what the author claims are "extra-legal missions."

In other words, using U.S. soldiers to kill or arrest Americans, acts that have been illegal since the U.S. Civil War.

snip

Instead of being fired for the grotesque military-political fiasco in Iraq and the shameful torture scandals, Rumsfeld has just managed to create a new, Pentagon spy/special ops organization, blandly named "Strategic Support Branch," that will replace or duplicate many of the CIA's tasks.

snip

Rumsfeld's new, massively funded SSB will become the Pentagon's CIA, complete with commando units, spies, mercenary forces, intelligence gathering and analysis, and a direct line to the White House. The Pentagon has just effectively taken over the spy business.

more (excellent column by Eric Margolis)

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Columnists/Toronto/Eric_Margolis/2005/02/06/922316.html

[mainer]

45. I thought Rumsfeld was afraid to go to Germany

for fear of being arrested as a war criminal?

[mainer]

46. I thought Rumsfeld was afraid to go to Germany

for fear of being arrested as a war criminal?

[Toots]

47. Just means he is totally untrustworthy

If he can change his "core convictions" just to get European approval then he can change back just as quickly. He is an out an out LIAR by his own admission.

[LinuxInsurgent]

50. New Rumsfeld =

OLD Rumsfeld after having drunk Ward Churchill's special, succulent brand of "Right Back At Ya: Chickens Coming Home to Roost" Vodka....

I've heard it does wonder for idealistic neoconservative imperial maniacs...sobers you up quick.:evilgrin:

[Seabiscuit]

51. Europe should shun Rummy and everyone else in his evil cabal.

... and continue to stand on principle.

[VegasWolf]

52. Neither Rumfilled is worth a damn. i doubt if Europe will fall for

either one.

[Mockingbird]

53. Rummies Old & New

Well, somebody wrote Rumsfeld a joke.


Self-deprecating humor 101.
It must be a new class in the white house remedial education program.

Bush has finally graduated from the "how to sound like a preacher, but say absolutely nothing" seminar he's been trying to get a passing grade on for the last number of years.

Just because he can make a joke, doesn't change a thing.

[Rex]

67. Dr. Rumslove!

He has totally cracked! OMG! Folks we are in some serious shit.

[Jacobin]

68. They have his number

Europeans are not stupid.

They are laughing at this worn out old warmongering dolt, trying to extend the length of his penis with the blood of young soldiers.

He has not changed. He is still a sick old fuck.

[Mockingbird]

70. Dial "R" for Rumsfeld

Yes, Europeans have his number.

They were a much smarter bunch than the aggregate of voters in the U.S.

But they were delusional enough to think that Bush & cronies would not be back in the white house, that American voters would not allow the same nonsense to happen again.