U.S. Cities Eye Ocean Waves for Power Supplies

[Rose Siding]

SAN FRANCISCO/NEW YORK (Reuters) - Since ancient times poets have revered the power of the seas. Now energy companies and coastal cities like New York and San Francisco are aiming to tap ocean waves and tidal currents as abundant sources of electricity.

Whether captured by big buoys bobbing on sea swells or by submerged turbines spinning with the ebb and flow of the tides, the energy potential of moving water, or marine power, is beginning to turn heads in the energy world.
...
Marine power is in its infancy. But an experimental wave project run last summer by Ocean Power Delivery Ltd in the Scottish Orkneys successfully provided power to 500 homes through Scottish Power .

Marine power research has received millions of dollars worth of government subsidies in Scotland, but the United States currently has no federal program.

http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=scienceNews&storyID=7622046

[cally]

1. On a massive scale, wouldn't this change the ocean currents

and possibly important aquatic ecosystems? I know wind turbines do slightly decrease the speed of the wind. There was some concern that on a massive scale that it would be a problem.

[Boomer]

4. Not to worry

By the time this industry is ready for commercial power production, all the aquatic ecosystems will have collapsed due to overfishing, toxic pollution and lethally high concentrations of CO2.

[One_Life_To_Give]

10. Theoretically Yes, but;

Concider that friction is already slowing the rqate at which the moon revolves around the earth. Compared to the total friction presented by the worlds oceans. Human demand for electricity is only a small percentage. So while we could have a very large impact on a small current or local area. It is unlikely that we will be looking to draw enough power to seriously upset the major ocean currents or tidal currents.

[pacifictiger]

13. depends on where they plan to put them.

The world's oceans are incredibly vast, hard to imagine man's puny efforts would have as big an impact there as has been the case on dry land.

[Redstone]

2. This idea has been around for a long time

without any projects being completed except the one in Scotland (as far as I know).

Maybe it just makes too much sense?

Redstone

[thecrow]

12. It's a great idea...

...one that I have thought about since I was a child, experiencing the force of the ocean waves. It just makes sense.

[muriel_volestrangler]

3. Nuclear power interests killed the most promising wave power in the UK

over 20 years ago.

By 1982, a consultant was able to report that the duck could be expected, with further development, to produce electricity at a cost of around 5.5 pence (about 12 cents) per kilowatt-hour, a price competitive with nuclear power (the most expensive commercial generation process in use in Britain). Clive Grove-Palmer, a respected department engineer seconded to work on the duck project, estimated that the cost could be got down around 3 pence per kilowatt-hour (about 7 cents).

Soon after this, the department's research and development advisory council (ACORD) met, excluding Grove-Palmer, and accepted a secret report, prepared by a unit based at British Atomic Energy Authority headquarters, claiming that wind power had more immediate commercial possibilities than wave power, and research funds should be shifted to it. The department, which was packed with nuclear supporters, had instructed ACORD to reduce its renewables research budget from £14 million £11 million. At the time, the department was spending around £200 million on nuclear research.
...
It was eight months before wave power researchers were allowed to see the report on which ACORD based its decision to junk their work. Then, in January 1983, a research unit based at the Atomic Energy Authority came out with another report concealing the good figures for the Duck by averaging them in with figures for all wave power projects. This gave a non-commercial figure of 8-12 pence per kilowatt-hour.

Apparently still not satisfied that they had killed the Duck, opponents of the project then produced figures overestimating capital costs by a factor of 10, massively underestimating the reliability of undersea cables, and claiming that in mass production each Duck would cost about the same as one prototype.

http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/1992/64/64cenb.htm

[Carl Brennan]

5. Infuriating!!! The oil companies did this to solar power

They bought up all the copper and bankrupted fledgling solar power programs.

Then we all remember GM and the Steel industry buying up mass transit in the 40's. Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART) was fucked up by this.

Rest assured these fossil fuel and nuke interests will undermine any "competitor".

[OKthatsIT]

6. I heard this wouldnt work...due to equipment damage

the ocean is a force to be reckoned with...any major storm would wipe it out

[Redstone]

7. well, that makes sense

I can see where it would be hard to make a system durable enough.

Although, for example, the turbines in the Boulder Dam must be pretty strong...but then again, underwater turbines sure would chop up a lot of fish...everything's more complicated than it first seems, isn't it?

Still, I hope someone comes up with a workable system.

Redstone

[bvar22]

8. There are offshore industrial structures...

...that have withstood the full fury of Carribean hurricanes for over 50 years.

[Trish1168]

11. That itsn't really true...this is viable technology

There's an experimental system being implemented in NY city. This system is different than others that have been tried.

First, these are small turbines that sit at the bottom of the river. They are deep enough and small enough to not affect shipping lanes. There's a lot of enthusiasm for this project. Since the turbines are at the bottom, they should hold up very well against the elements.

Now think about it....we can make these huge gigantic oil platforms in some of the most inhospitable ocean environments imaginable...but we can't put little turbines on the bottom of a river near a major metropolitan area?

We have the ability to get away from oil and nukes. But its not going to happen as long as the oil industry is in charge.

There's a global war on for energy resources....we can win the war with our innovation (by not grabbing resources, but instead thinking our way through the problems).

But, this would mean the powerful people would have to give up their way of life. Its just easier in their minds for the US to go to war and blow up the middle east to secure America's pre-eminence...so it goes.

[VegasWolf]

15. That's an engineering challenge, not a show stopper. n/t

[SomewhereOutThere424]

9. Hmmm...

Is this what condi meant when she said the tsunami in india was a great opporatunity? You'd think they'd atleast wait a while after that before releasing using waves as a power supply...

[ldf]

14. i've always wondered

(well, in recent years..)

you know those little things you see on bike wheels that powers your light?

some sort of friction generator, sort of thing?

it sounds like this could easily work on the rising and falling of the waves. not in the surf, but out where the swells just rise and fall, rise and fall.

you would need an adaptor to change it to energy you could use, but it seems like it could be done.

maybe that is what this is.

but take it a step further.

in a "energy" room of your house you have tens, or how ever many you need, of these "friction generators". each one is essentially a weight on a pulley that rotates on the little generator.

you could have one for each appliance. the more energy needed, the heavier the weight. the one for the tv could be a hundred pounds, generating enough energy to run it.

you could have lengths that were long enough to have fewer needs to rise the weights back to the top.

AND the added benefit, just think of the arm muscles! ;-)

for heavier weights (like those that power the tv or the air conditioner) you could use your leg power to get the weights back to the top!

you could be an energy generating hunk, or hunkette!

what am i missing? why can't something like this be done? any of the obvious limitations should be able to be solved, given research and money.

think of it. NO POWER PLANTS!

serious question.

[gbwarming]

16. It's a good idea, but we use a LOT of energy

Normal, healthy humans can do about 75 Watts worth of work all day long given adequate cooling, water and food. That's about how much you need to ride a bicycle 10-12 mph. So there are lots of things you could power with a arm cranked or pedalled generator, BUT a typical american house uses more like 500W, 24 hours a day. Way more than a person can produce.

If your (13inch) TV needed 50 Watts the 100 pound weight would have to descend at about half a foot per second (and this is assuming the whole generating system is 74% efficient which is quite good). Forget about the A/C - window units can use 1000Watts. For reference, a trained athlete can put out about one horsepower (745 Watts) for about a minute.

[ldf]

17. well, we could start with the small things

it all adds up.

and for the high energy use products, there is no real limit on the number of generators you could use. as long as you have the room, and the way to lift the weight back up, the problems could be solved.

and if we spent the money trying to solve those problems that we spent on trying to hit bullets in the air with other bullets (missle defense system), no telling what kind of break throughs we could discover.

still, it's a worthy idea, and if i ever have the finances to try my own small experiment, that is exactly what i will do.

[Redstone]

18. Actually, there is a system like that

or one that was proposed, or something; I do remember reading about it some years back.

It was flat panels that floated on the ocean surface. There were generating devices attached to the hinges between the panels, so as they flexed in relation to each other when a wave lifted and lowered them, they made electricity.

Don't know if it ever got built.

Redstone

[truthisfreedom]

19. popular science put this on the cover over 25 years ago.

it's been buried until now.