Rice: ties with Syria getting worse

[Bhaisahab]

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Tuesday relations with Syria were worsening and demanded a pullout of Syrian troops from Lebanon.

"Let me be very clear that this is not the first time that we have discussed with the Syrian government our differences," she said after a meeting with Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmad Aboul Gheit.

Earlier, Washington announced it was recalling Margaret Scobey, its envoy to Damascus, for consultations following the Monday slaying of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri, an opponent of Syrian troops in the country.

continued:
http://news.newkerala.com/world-news/?action=fullnews&id=72426

[asjr]

1. Well, we are getting huffy again. Just another reason to invade

Syria. And it probably was not Syria that slew Hariri.

[saigon68]

14. Kindasleezy Rice tunes up another Invasion

Wow, this one will require a lot of help. Maybe it will bring down the dictator in Pakistan.

[lovuian]

2. Looking in my crystal Ball I see Israel going into Lebanon

and US helping attack Syria from the Iraq border!!!

Everything is in place!!!

[JNelson6563]

30. And then for old times' sake

Israel could fly over and attack one of our war ships.

Viva la' Liberty! :toast:

Julie

[PsychoDad]

34. Now Julie, be fair...

The pilots were blind, and although carried on a sustained attack at close range never saw the american flag or any other identifying markings.

Whadda you? Against blind pilots or sumptin? (/sarcasm off)

[JNelson6563]

36. *snarf*

;-)

[txaslftist]

39. You don't support the use of blind pilots?

That's very anti-ADA of you!

[txaslftist]

40. You don't support the use of blind pilots?

That's very anti-ADA of you!

[Gloria]

3. Russia's going ahead with it's arms deal with Syria....

this could get interesting.

[Say_What]

4. So many countries, so little time

If Dr. Death has her way, the entire planet will soon be rubble...

From the article:

...Although Washington has not explicitly blamed Syria for Hariri's killing, it has fingered the Syrian military presence in Lebanon for the security situation there. Syria says its troops in Lebanon provide security.

"The only excuse for that presence has been that it somehow provided internal security," U.S. State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said. "Unfortunately, the tragic bombing (Monday) shows that that's just not true."

[LynnTheDem]

5. fingered the US military presence in Iraq for the security situation there

America says its troops in Iraq provide security.

"The only excuse for that presence has been that it somehow provided internal security," U.S. State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said. "Unfortunately, the tragic bombing (daily) shows that that's just not true."

[allemand]

28. "Blast that killed Hariri hard to prevent: experts"

ABU DHABI - The type of car bomb that killed former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Al Hariri in Beirut is extremely difficult to prevent, military experts said on Wednesday. (...) Defence analyst Jeff Ballard, speaking on the sidelines of a defence exhibition in Abu Dhabi in the United Arab Emirates, said no amount of car armour could have withstood such a explosion. (...) “But nobody is going to stop that kind of attack by a committed person who is going to give his life to commit a terrorist act,” he told Reuters.

Lebanese newspapers questioned on Wednesday why the convoy’s sophisticated electronic jamming equipment had failed to work. Military experts explained this equipment can block remote control devices, but was not effective against suicide bombs and some kinds of improvised explosive devices (IEDs).

More:
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticle.asp?xfile=data/theuae/2005/February/theuae_February458.xml§ion=theuae


Also interesting, from the same article:

Efraim Halevy, a former chief of Israel’s Mossad secret service, said Syria had the most to lose from the attack, whether or not investigations showed it was involved.

“If it was a Syrian operation, then it was not very smart on the part of the Syrians,” he said. “If it was not a Syrian operation -- say, a suicide bombing that points at a different actor -- then Damascus still stands to lose the most as fingers are already pointing at its continued presence in Lebanon.”

[Kinkistyle]

11. Oh my gawds, my Irony-meter is erupting!!!

Just like Condo-Lie-Za's "Lie Volcano". I mean, the irony is so thick I don't see how you can not be drowning it it! :silly:

[magellan]

15. You really need to be swilling the kool-aid

...NOT to have your irony meter set off at least once a week by BushCo. I'm really beginning to believe the entire administration are performing a rejected SNL skit.

Or they're all refugees from JayWalking. lol

[65 rambler lady]

Swilling kookaid

Good point about the bushcos on jaywalking - now that might be really funny.....or would it be sad......oh well. Bet smirky wouldn't getone right....and 'condi lies al lotta' would just play the race card when she got one wrong....

[Dr Fate]

6. Just in time to distract everyone again...

...and give the media an excuse to report nothing but "pro American" propaganda.

[thebigidea]

7. maybe we should actually, uh, leave our envoy there, then?

"demanded a pullout of Syrian troops from Lebanon. "

that's cute! Yes, we just hate foreign troops occupying countries in the ME, don't we. Yep.

Oh wait...

[cliss]

8. I wonder if the US had anything to do with it.......

As many know, we have our fingers just about everywhere on God's Green Earth. No country is too small to escape our attention....meddling, causing uprisings, supporting dictators, orchestrating coups.....you name it, the Entrepreneurial Ones are there, causing havoc.

Any thoughts?

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

12. Yeah, except in places that HAVE nukes and might actually use

them, like... ohhh, North Korea, maybe?

But since they grow cabbages and have no oil, I guess we don't really care.

[ernstbass]

41. The first thing that entered my mind

was that US and Israel may have had a hand in this.

[sr_pacifica]

51. Yes, I think the U.S. is a prime suspect

And I'm surprised more DUers are not saying so.

I listened to BBC news the day of the assassination and one of the speakers from a middle eastern country mentioned the sophistication of the bombing---it had to, possibly, neutralize a system that was used to protect Hariri---and then there is the unknown-upto-now group claiming responsibility. Al Jazeera reported that the accent did not sound Arabic. The U.S. has everything to gain by creating instability in the region, so it can claim its forthcoming invasion, which I believe will happen, is for the purpose of bringing stability.

Our government will also be assassinating some Iraqi politicians when it appears that the new government may be leaning toward Iran or in other ways not going the way the U.S. wants it to go. Easy to do when the present situation is so chaotic. Insurgents can easily be blamed.

[L.A.dweller]

52. You are not the only one to think so

When this story was broadcast on the local FOX news channel it just reeked. No doubt the US had something to do with this. The funds may have come from the US.

[Javaman]

9. Nothing like a little diplomacy from our worthless SoS...

God, that woman is a joke.

[Art_from_Ark]

13. If she's a joke,

then why am I not laughing?

[allemand]

33. First mayor gaffe, maybe?

This was my first thought when I came across the following comment from an Arab journalist:

"As I was writing trying to get this article together, the Associated Press reported that Washington declared it would recall “its envoy from Damascus” for consultation.

That fast??"

http://www.islam-online.net/English/Views/2005/02/article05.shtml

Compare it to the measured response from Solana and the EU. I bet Colin Powell would never have done such a silly thing, which will only favor conspiracy theories in the region.

[Renew Deal]

10. This is quite appropriate

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=2638208&mesg_id=2638208&page=

[moondust]

16. Unilateral worsening.

What exactly has Syria contributed to this so-called "worsening"? And don't say "support for the Iraqi insurgency" or "assassination" unless you have concrete evidence verifiable by at least three credible foreign intelligence sources.

[Behind the Aegis]

17. Someone explain this to me

Why is the FORMER Prime Minister's death a big deal? Any murder is horrible, but, as far as I can tell, he had no political power, so why is his death such a powder keg? I understand he was an opponent of Syrian occupation, but did he really have much political power? If the Syrians were behind this (and I have some serious doubts about that), why would they do this now? What the fuck is really going on?!

On edit: Am I the only one who finds our withdrawing our ambassador BEFORE the assassin is determined a bit odd?!

[The Magistrate]

18. Politics In That Country, Sir

Has cantonal and tribal elements. A man's power is not represented so much by whether he himself is actually in office, but by how many of his close followers and associates are, as well as by how many armed men might be expected to show loyalty to him in a pinch....

[thebigidea]

20. seems slightly condescending, as if they were bone-in-the-nose "savages"

Wouldn't we freak out completely for weeks if, say, Bill Clinton or Jimmy Carter were taken out in a massive explosion with nobody taking credit for it?

Damn tribal Democrats and their quaint ways...

[The Magistrate]

22. You Are Free, Sir, To Take My Comments However You Please

Similarly, what value you place on the descriptor tribal is your own affair.

[Behind the Aegis]

21. Thank you!

I know power is not always by who is in office (thus the deaths of Malcolm X and MLK, JR.). I was just unsure why this one man was causing such a stir. I try to follow issues in the Middle East, and I didn't even recognize his name. So, can you answer me this...who would benefit more from his death, the US, Syria, or his own followers(i.e. martyr)? Why such the strong reaction from the US toward Syria on this matter?

[The Magistrate]

23. That Is Harder To Answer, Sir

The fine detail of Lebanese politics today is not one of my areas. It does seem that large elements of Lebanese society are growing more restive over Syrian occupation of the place, and that this fellow was looked to by many as an opponent of it. Syria has desired Lebanon since it was partitioned out of the French colonial spoils after the Great War, and does not mean to let it go, having been granted by the civil war there in the seventies of the last century a golden pretext to realize this ambition. With the looming possibility of Syrian embroilment with the U.S. on the open border with Iraq, political action against Syrian occupation probably looks more and more feasible to Lebanese who wish it to end. After all, the emergency it was meant to address has long subsided, and there is no particular reason to believe that after Syrian garrissons departed, should they ever, the place would be plunged again into major violence by their absence. From the Syrian view, it would make some sense in this situation to eliminate a political figure around whom efforts against their occupation could coalesce in a peaceful fashion, and given the primacy of holding Lebanon to Syrian policy, this suggests to me that government would have the best motive. But the question "who benefits?" is only the beginning of investigation, not the end, as many seem to suppose it is....

[Behind the Aegis]

25. Well, kind sir, your answers are very insightful

I knew that Syria has always had the "glad eye" on Lebanon, but I fail to see how this execution would play well for them. To me, it seems this tragedy plays better for the US, but that is just my opinion.

I have to admit, I am a little flattered you responded. I have read hundreds of your posts and always wonder what I would say when/if you responded to me.

I just find this situation very disturbing. Lebanon has been fairly stable for awhile now, this seems as if some pulled a thread and things are about to unravel. It is very upsetting.

[The Magistrate]

27. You Are Too Kind, Sir

It is a pleasure to make your acquaintance.

"When confronted with conflicting stories about an event, choose the one that shows people at their worst."

[allemand]

24. Just look at the massive turnout at Hariri's funeral which is now going on

if you want to understand what significance he had in Lebanon.

I think the US overreacted in order to make the most of the situation and get Syria out of Lebanon (which would be a good thing) or because the neocons see the opportunity for another "regime change" by military intervention. After all, they wanted to invade Syria right after Iraq, according to Seymour Hersh.

I tried to gather some information about the attack and about who could be behind it in these threads:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1238527

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1236249#1237581

[Behind the Aegis]

26. Interesting ideas

The part about the US overreacting makes sense as a method to further destabilize the region. I don't doubt that it was militants, it is just who is behind the operation. To me, this is starting to look like 'smoke and mirrors' and nothing more. I despise the leadership of this country, they are hateful liars! But more and more, I really can see them involved in actions such as this and it makes me very sad.

Thank you for your input. You and the Magistrate have given me lots to think about and explore!

[aneerkoinos]

29. Some info

It is my understanding that Hariri, the leader of the Sunni faction, was planning to get back to politics and was likely to win and become the PM of a coalition opposed to continued presence of Syrian troops.

Here's an expert blog on Syria:
http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/L/Joshua.M.Landis-1/syriablog/index.html

[Behind the Aegis]

46. NOW I SEE!!

Thank you for this information!!! This makes sense!!! This is a very bad situation, and it will get worse, I fear! I appreciate your helping me out!! I really feel for the people of Lebanon, it has been a fairly peaceful 10 years, I am sure this is very upsetting to them all!

[d_b]

19. condolieza lies a lot

[cthrumatrix]

31. let me be clear Condi --- you lie thru your teeth

[DU GrovelBot]

32. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

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[Mikimouse]

38. GROVEL Baby! You look Maaahhhhvelous!

[BiggJawn]

35. Oh, let us see now....Trying this on a smaller scale....

Let's say there's a woman at another company who's accusing my department of being poopy-heads and telling the other companies in town to stop doing business with me unless I stop doing what she says I'm doing, even though it's not been proven that I'm doing it.

I don't think I'd want to sit next to her at the Jay-Cee luncheon, could you blame me?

"Relations are worsening"...Memmo to Condom: Do NOT throw Gasoline on a fire.

[leesa]

37. Well, fool, it's your job to keep this from happening, but instead

you go around the world and threaten countries deliberately.

[Kimber Scott]

42. So, are we really, like, the boss of the world? Seems like we'd have

some kind of fancy title for that like, "United States of Everything." And so it goes, not even a month since the inauguration and we're on the verge of global warfare.

[Supersedeas]

43. Preemptive worsening and preemptive removal of envoy -- very diplomatic

Professor Condi must have some solid intelligence regarding the Syrian troops having some involvment in the assassination.

Why else the change?

[PurityOfEssence]

44. Yeah. Her husband's losing his "patience" again.

The world's most warlike reluctant warrior saddles up again. Oh, that's right: he's afraid of horses.

[denverbill]

45. But, Bashar al-Assad killed his own people.

Intelligence shows he has been seeking quantities of yellow-cake uranium from Nigeria. He has socked away 500 tons of nerve gas and 800 tons of anthrax which mysteriously disappeared from Iraq. We have seen photos of him giving a handjob to Osama bin Laden for God's sake!

[BreweryYardRat]

47. Brilliant....

Abso-fucking-lutely wonderful. Piss YET ANOTHER nation off when we're already in the next Vietnam. What is Rice's doctorate in, anyway? Special Ed? Marketing? Both?

[Rockholm]

48. No shit, Condi.

Geez, you could fuck up an orgasm.

[driver8]

49. "we have discussed with the Syrian government"????

I don't think there is much discussion going on there. The US says,
"You will get your ass out of Lebanon or we will kick the shit out of you."

Syria says, "Bring it on, bitch."

Condi says, "You weren't supposed to say that to me...I'm telling Georgy."

When will this fucking nightmare end? When will these asshole just go away!!!

[Javaman]

50. I just figured out what condi, I haven't ever had an origial idea, rice...

does as SoS. She's doing the play by play of morons* concept of diplomacy. She really doesn't do anything other than point out the obvious.