A New Model Army Soldier Rolls Closer to the Battlefield (Robots) | NYT

[Ediacara]

A New Model Army Soldier Rolls Closer to the Battlefield
By TIM WEINER

Published: February 16, 2005

he American military is working on a new generation of soldiers, far different from the army it has.

"They don't get hungry," said Gordon Johnson of the Joint Forces Command at the Pentagon. "They're not afraid. They don't forget their orders. They don't care if the guy next to them has just been shot. Will they do a better job than humans? Yes."

The robot soldier is coming.

The Pentagon predicts that robots will be a major fighting force in the American military in less than a decade, hunting and killing enemies in combat. Robots are a crucial part of the Army's effort to rebuild itself as a 21st-century fighting force, and a $127 billion project called Future Combat Systems is the biggest military contract in American history.

More at the New York Times

[Pooka Fey]

1. RoboSoldier = RoboCop. From the battlefield to a city near you !!!!

Good thing we will run out of energy soon.

[UL_Approved]

2. More like Terminator

It looks like the T1000 is being rolled out as we speak.

[Pooka Fey]

3. Maybe we can change the Constitution and run one of these for President!!!

I used GREAT RESTRAINT and didn't subject anybody to my AHH-NOLD voice. Oooops. :silly:

[thebigidea]

4. 20 bucks says Gordon Johnson retires in under 6 months...

... and conveniently reappears on the board of one of the contractors involved in this idiocy.

It all paints a pretty funny picture, doesn't it:

WOLFOWITZ: "We're stretched to the breaking point... Syria and Iran are off the table unless we can find a way t-"

RUMSFELD: "Robots! Robots! I'll create an army of unstoppable killing machines that can stand all day like me... my goodness, this would be the ultimate in flexibility."

WOLFOWITZ: "Uh, I'll get right on it."

Wolfowitz throws several billion dollars into a wasterpaper basket and lights a match. After a few minutes, he pulls out a faded manilla folder marked SUPER SEKRIT DRAFT in crayon.

Those guys have been in speed-crazed-Hitler-in-the-bunker mode for far too long.

[artemisia1]

5. Welcome to the Future!

Wonder if their quietly working on some "Blade Runner" type replicants at the same time?

[NYC]

6. Not so good for the human soldiers.

...They don't care if the guy next to them has just been shot...

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

7. remote control soldiers for AFTER the Nuclear FALLOUT !

if we don't see that these guys are planning on
inflicting devastating TOXIC conditions, (from radiation to biological viral wasteland conditions),
then we are looking the other way.
Nice to be able to wipe out areas and still be able to occupy any lifeless conquered territory,
(ultimately maintaining the abiliy to siphon the natural resources)
Sounds like it's out of a bad science fiction movie,
If we only knew their plans---
well, I think anyone could guess with so much money(40 billion dollars at Rumsfeld's disposal with NO accountability required) going into aggressive military tools of destruction...
they ain't planning on philanthropy

[HysteryDiagnosis]

8. What took them so long? eom.

[Cooley Hurd]

9. Send Grovelbot - he has way too much time on his hands...

...with all the posting, and grovelling, and such...

[shadowknows69]

10. they're right on the proper timeline too

Terminator-the future war was in full swing in 2029

Our robots-"Supporters like Robert Finkelstein, president of Robotic Technology in Potomac, Md., are telling the Pentagon it could take until 2035 to develop a robot that looks, thinks and fights like a soldier"

Start looking for a kid named John Conner now and keep his ass safe!!!

[PsychoDad]

11. For some reason....

This robots and star wars reminds me of the third reich's wonder weapons. Yes. I think Hitler, et al, would have liked the idea of emotionless killer robots.

Lots of time and money spent on military/corporate welfare. But on the brightside, robots don't need retirement or VA benifits.

[DistantWind88]

12. They are not

"emotionless killer robots." A MAN is still required to pull the trigger on these machines. This tools don't act autonomously.

[shadowknows69]

15. the article said they will eventually

and I'll bet they all look like the Gov. Of California

[LinuxInsurgent]

30. I posted on this below...

until they develop a robot with human-quality hearing, seeing, and smelling, and joint-mechanisms and pneumonic jump features to mirror the fluidity and power of human legs and other joints, these robots will be slow, hunks of metal, with no ability to detect being blindsided....and that's speaking without even considering the possibility of artificial intelligence (no human controlling).

These robots are akin to the robots in Terminator 3, at the end of the movie...the first T models...they are tank-track hulks of metal that may work good for long-range target shooting, but would be horribly deficient in close-combat, where the enemy can easily pick them off.

And everytime one of these guys gets blown up...it's MILLIONS of dollars down the drain...vs an Insurgent RPG (that cost $25 or a little more, in the Iraqi black market).

Who is losing the war of money?

I'm not afraid of these machines....

[AZCat]

13. I, for one...

Welcome our new cybernetic overlords!

[Rose Siding]

14. $127 billion

That just takes my breath away. Remember when everyone was fooled into believing that "democracies" don't attack other countries?

"Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also" -Jesus

[sleipnir]

16. Did these FOOLS not learn anything from Terminator??!!!

Seriously, this shit should stop now. This is really the last thing we need. Only a matter of time before we're fighting the machines.

I'm not so sure Terminator won't become reality....

[Moderator]

17. kick

to combine threads

[T_i_B]

18. Pentagon prepares to build £70bn robot army

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;sessionid=Y5OOFIILOM2N5QFIQMGCNAGAVCBQUJVC?xml=/news/2005/02/17/wrobot17.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/02/17/ixportal.html&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=24273

The Pentagon is spending £70 billion on a programme to build heavily-armed robots for the battlefield in the hope that future wars will be fought without the loss of its soldiers' lives.

The scheme, known as Future Combat Systems, is the largest military contract in American history and will help to drive the defence budget up by almost 20 per cent to just over £265 billion in five years' time.

Much of the cash will be spent computerising the military, but the ultimate aim is to take members of the armed forces out of harm's way. They would be replaced by robots capable of hunting and killing America's enemies.

In the far future it is hoped that the miniaturised robots will walk like humans, or hover like some birds. Others may look like insects.

[whistle]

19. That should help realize productivity growth for America's...

...economy.

[Demeter]

20. Johnnie 5 Call Your Office!

The damn things look just like the movie out of the 80's.

[THUNDER HANDS]

21. robot soliders huh?

If there's a draft in the future, does that mean I have to give up my toaster?

[davhill]

22. Terminator

Arriving a little earlier than expected.

[GiovanniC]

23. Where's My Flying Car, Motherfuckers?

We were supposed to have flying cars before we got killer robots... Christ, don't you people watch ANY sci-fi?

Anyway, I hope that when the super advanced robot army enslaves the human race, that they don't give me a job working in a field... I sunburn.

[skypilot]

24. I'm skeptical about this crap.

It just makes me think of Reagan's "Star Wars" nonsense which they are still trying to work the bugs out of. Grown men indulging in some comic book fantasy. I have no doubt that they will throw lots and lots of money down the drain in pursuit of this nonsense but I don't see an army of hundreds of thousands of robot soldiers rolling off the assembly line any time soon. I could be wrong but I just don't see it.

[emad]

25. Pentagon prepares to build £70bn robot army

Telegraph
By Francis Harris in Washington
(Filed: 17/02/2005)

The Pentagon is spending £70 billion on a programme to build heavily-armed robots for the battlefield in the hope that future wars will be fought without the loss of its soldiers' lives.

The scheme, known as Future Combat Systems, is the largest military contract in American history and will help to drive the defence budget up by almost 20 per cent to just over £265 billion in five years' time.

Much of the cash will be spent computerising the military, but the ultimate aim is to take members of the armed forces out of harm's way. They would be replaced by robots capable of hunting and killing America's enemies.

Gordon Johnson, of the US joint forces research centre, told the New York Times: "The American military will have these kinds of robots. It's not a question of 'if', it's a question of 'when'."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/02/17/wrobot17.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/02/17/ixworld.html

[bif]

26. Does the lunacy never end?

Why not just play a chess game to see who wins a war? First we have the useless Star Wars program that they love to throw money at, and now this!

[LinuxInsurgent]

27. i'm not that scared...these robots are vulnerable

these robots do not have artificial intelligence, ala Terminator...they are controlled via Nintendo-like remote controls by Human controllers.

They are retrofit with cameras...but video angles cannot supplant the 360 range of eyesight...

I suspect these robots would be easy catch for insurgents in city areas...what is to stop one of these from being blindsided by an insurgent with an RPG. Human beings have the benefit of HEARING, SMELLING, and SEEING, all at the same time. These senses allow us to triangulate the position of enemy forces in a given battlefield environment. These robots, at best, will be able to provide the Human Controlers with "line of sight" camera footage, and will probably be armed with automatic-targeting features, based on the footage provided. So...if it appears on the camera footage, the onboard computer will be able to automatically target the enemy...though the final call on shooting will be at the hands of the human controller, who will have to judge, based on the camera, whether or not his target is an enemy force or a civilian. BIG PROBLEM there...it could lead to a lot of "mistaken identity" kills.

The problem comes when an enemy force effectively circumvents the video footage line of sight, and, essentially, can walk alongside this machine without it detecting its presence. They are easy prey for enemy forces with RPGs. If they retrofit these machines with heat-seeking sensors, that might help in detecting enemy forces behind walls (etc.), but the problem is, how to assure that the heat-signature belongs to an enemy force and not a civilian. And what happens if there are multiple heat-signatures, all around the robot...how would the robot engage attackers, simply spraying bullets in 360 degrees? Not very efficient, nor safe for civilians...these robots may be good for static, target shooting...but not for infiltrating "insurgent nests" where the enemy is strategizing to "trap" intruders.

Until they develop robots with human-quality hearing, seeing, smelling, and information processing capability, you will not have a machine that will respond fast enough to the vastly changing conditions of a given battlefield...and that will give the edge to the enemy human forces, who will be able to creatively "pick off" these robots...and make our investment in these robots WORTHLESS.

[DistantWind88]

29. I'll bet the

people building and employing these never thought of those points. Good work!

[natrat]

31. thing is, these things can go in and be immune to chem warfare

[JLW]

34. What about satellite?

I agree with your assessment if the robot is limited as you state. IMO with the ability to provide a live feed via satellite they are less “vulnerable” than you may think. If I recall correctly, the ability to view a ground assault by satellite using heat signatures will allow the robot and the controller to see an overview of the battle. The controller would be able to lock onto targets via satellite feed or GPS. Targets could then be seen behind walls, inside and on top of buildings. They might even be able to identify and track a specific target via satellite.

Jamie

[LinuxInsurgent]

36. that may help...but not definitively

that may help track targets at above ground level (roofs), and behind walls...but even then...you'd need a whole army of these, each targeting a different heat signature, to effectively protect each other and tackle the human opponents.

Seeing the heat-signatures (the human controllers) is not the same as TRANSLATING that reconaissance into action...the robots could still fall prey to faster, cunning, human opponents, even if the robot's controller sees the enemy's signature. For the increased reconnaissance to make a difference, the robots have to be extremely flexible and moveable to TAKE ACTION on the information that their human controllers is feeding them. Cunning and fast action on the part of the human opponents can still WIN the day.

Also...these robots would be vulnerable to IED (improvised explosive devices)...humans, through cultural context and experience, have learnt (not perfectly, but somewhat) where the Iraqis lay their traps, and how they inform civilians of bomb locations...robots would not be equipped with such nuance...and they would fall prey to IEDs as well.

[Dudley_DUright]

28. So much for Isaac Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics

First Law:

A robot may not injure a human being, or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.

Second Law:

A robot must obey orders given it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.

Third Law:

A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

http://www.anu.edu.au/people/Roger.Clarke/SOS/Asimov.html#Laws1940

[Occulus]

32. Don't those apply only to 'thinking machines', though? n/t

[DU GrovelBot]

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[expatriot]

35. What's your opinion on this subject, Grovelbot?

Do you like the idea of robots killing people? I know you dream of killing those who don't donate to DU.

[Pinboy]

37. Check out the CARLYLE GROUP connection:

US plans 'robot troops' for Iraq
The US military is planning to deploy robots armed with machine-guns to wage war against insurgents in Iraq.
*SNIP*

According to Bob Quinn, a manager with Foster-Miller, the US-based company which worked with the military to develop the robot, the only difference for a soldier is that "his weapon is not at his shoulder, it's up to half a mile away".
*SNIP*

The Foster-Miller company is owned by the QinetiQ Group, a joint venture between the UK's Ministry of Defence and US-based holding company, Carlyle Group.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4199935.stm

Thanks to Sandy at lightupthedarkness.org for finding the link
http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=373

[Hand]

38. One ten-dollar RPG...

would put a hurting on those tin cans that they'd NEVER get over. Idiots...

:wtf:

[ausiedownunderground]

39. Has that "interceptor" missile taken off yet???

I think the incoming missile was fired from Alaska several days ago. I know its probably very slow and has a homing beacon on its nose to help, but eventually its got to be "shot down" or some poor Marshall Islander is going to get a rude early morning wake up call.

Carlyle Group is actually short for "It'll Never Work Investments" without a further 100 billion!