Russia to Sell Advanced Missiles to Syria

[Rose Siding]

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia said on Wednesday it wanted to supply Syria with advanced missile systems, a move certain to anger the United States which accuses Syria of having links to terrorism.

Russia had long denied reports it wanted to sell missiles to Syria, its Cold War-era ally. The United States and Israel have urged Moscow to drop any such plans, saying Russian arms supplies would only strengthen militants in the Middle East.

"Talks are underway with this country to sell it Strelets air defense short-range missile systems," the Defense Ministry said in a statement.
...
The news of Moscow's intention comes just days before Russian President Vladimir Putin and President Bush are due to sign a deal to curb trade in shoulder-fired missiles when they meet in Bratislava on Feb. 24.

Media reported earlier this year that Moscow was looking to sell Syria its flagship Igla shoulder-fired missiles, widely used by militants around the world. But the Defense Ministry on Wednesday reiterated that arms trade with Syria included no Igla missiles. Continued ...

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=7647769&src=rss/worldNews

[cthrumatrix]

1. "air defense" missiles should not threaten Israel

but then again Sharon ....you never know

[Ganja Ninja]

3. Bush and Sharon consider it a threat when

they can't bully someone at will.

[Imagevision]

37. Bush and Saron Consider it a threat???

It was reported back in Oct.-04 that the US. delivered 500 bunker-Busting bombs to Israel --

also the recent comment made by Cheney last week that perhaps "Israel may deal with Iran" I found to be quite interesting.

[Toots]

2. It was our Stingers and Sams that drove Russia from Afghanistan

So now they want to even the score a little. :shrug: who could have ever guessed it?

[Imagevision]

38. It was our stingers and sams...

Excellant point...we help the taliban beat the Russians for 10 years...and we're supposed to get bent out of shape when the Russians are returning the favor...

America..heavy sigh...

[American Tragedy]

68. But to be fair, Russia shares blame in that incident as well.

The Soviets chose to invade Afghanistan, no doubt thinking it would be a cakewalk like Hungary and Czechoslovakia.

We may have been guilty of poor judgment in our reaction, but the Soviets are the ones who initially evoked the wrath of the muhajadeen. They decided to reprise the time-honored role as white imperialist, then of course acted shocked when the Afghans fought back. Sounds devastatingly familiar.

[AG78]

4. I embrace

humanity's destruction.

[lala_rawraw]

5. ah, that makes sense now

for the hit, it seems.

[Tempest]

6. Russia also selling weapons to Iran

Looks like Putin is throwing a monkey wrench in Bush's plans.

I wonder if Bush saw this when he looked into Pootie Poot's soul?

[hezekkia]

32. lol

and I wonder how long before Condi calls Russia an "outpost of tyranny." not holding my breath... we only beat up on countries that can't harm us.

[havocmom]

7. Well, the neocons managed to bring back the Cold War they loved SO much

and made SO much $$ from!

The more I see of mankind, the more I like my dog.

[GCP]

12. The more I see of mankind, the more I love your dog too!

Animals could never screw up the planet as well as we have.

[primavera]

55. New and improved Cold War II

This time it's the US not just against the Russkies, but against the entire planet!

[Deja Q]

8. Russia, that evil empire helping terrorists is now a terrorist

Duck for cover, y'all.

[Imagevision]

64. What was it that Bush said about those who aid a terrorist?

Bushboy, said they would too be considered terrorist, therefore...

[Ezlivin]

9. Next we'll build Skynet and you know where that will lead...

[Massacure]

28. LOL. Great Spoof!!!

[ladjf]

10. That settles it. We should invade Russia without delay.

And while we're at it, let's jump on China. They don't have a Democratic govt. and they have nukes.

[BiggJawn]

11. So much for looking into Pootie-Poot's eyes....

Business is Business....

[NYC]

22. Perhaps Bush saw in Putin's soul the opportunity

for both countries to make $zillions for their defense contractors. This could all be by mutual agreement.

[GCP]

13. How's that nuclear count-down (or Armageddon) clock doing?

It must be nano-seconds before midnight by now.

[Baclava]

19. The Doomsday Clock hasn't moved from 2002

Not that that's a good thing. 7 Minutes is same as 1947.

[GCP]

21. Just before the last Korean War

What a coincidence.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

14. Hope everyone gets the ability to defend themselves against invasion by

rougue nations like the Boosh Administration ( a country unto itself).
Th U.S. citizens have been hikacked by Terrorist Bush and ASSociates.
They don't even refer to the U.S. any more on the radio news..it's always the "today the boosh administration...bla bla bla"
I don't live in the "Boosh Administration"--I live in the United States--
Everyone knows the two are not the same.
I just wonder what ever happened to the United States...it's never ever mentioned any more.
The thing is,
RUSSIA should try selliing
us American Citizens missiles to defend THEMSELVES from the Boosh Administration.

If everyone's ARMED, no one gets HARMED--quote of the day (I just made that up)

[DS1]

15. Looked into his soul. Saw a Weapons Dealer. Didn't ever occur to Shrub

that he might deal weapons to people dat dere Shrubbie didn't like, see?

[DinahMoeHum]

17. Tee hee, Putin is playing Bush for a candy-ass pansy.

:evilgrin:

[Laurab]

57. Which, of course, he is

unless you're a weak nation with oil, of course.

[David__77]

16. Good news.

Anything to help deter aggression is a positive thing.

[chrisbur]

18. Hey, this must be that arms race...

thing that they said Bush's foreign policy would provoke. Nah. I better go listen to Rush to find out what we should do.

[Megahurtz]

20. I think "Pootie-Poot"

Pootie Pooted on Bush:silly::silly::silly::silly:

[ChemEng]

23. Some of the posts seem to think this sale is a good idea....

Why, I have no idea. Whatever else you think, the Syrians are not nice guys. The ruling class is more like a mafioso than anything else. :scared:

Am I misreading these posts? Or do we just enjoy watching shrub squirm?

[truth2power]

24. Maybe the Syrian government aren't nice guys, and maybe

we're just tired of seeing innocent CITIZENS, Syrian or otherwise, get their guts blown out because the Simple Chimp has to have a hardon about something.

I hope Syria and Iran both have enough weapons to keep the Chimperor from doing something stupid......Oh, wait..

[ChemEng]

26. Like the old boy in Lebanon, I'm guessing...

I'm sure the Lebanese love the Syrian mafia.

Do you see just black and white? Or shades of gray?

[truth2power]

31. I don't know what you're trying to say. My point was

that, unfortunately, countries that don't have weapons are going to be invaded by the US, their resources stolen and their people murdered. Can't blame them for taking a lesson from Iraq. What are they supposed to do?

[ChemEng]

62. Who do you think they are? The people? Whyt don't you

read a little history about the Syrian government's involvement in Lebanon. Talk about murdering...

[nolabels]

67. Please don't try to inform about others about history here

Even with my sparse knowledge of the subject it would seem that the people you are trying to defend are a wash at best in this whole 'who is more moral and just' comparison

History, rhetoric and propaganda are three different words

[Laurab]

58. I think the Shrub administration

can match just about any other country as far as "not being nice guys". Our "ruling class" is nothing to brag about these days, either. The more the rest of the world bands together, the less chance the neocons have of spreading their brand of "freedom" around the world by force.

I enjoy watching shrub squirm as much as the next person, but I also enjoy seeing anything that might deter this administration from jumping into their next "freedom spreading" war. They seem determined to destroy us all - I don't blame any country for wanting to be able to defend themselves against this insane administration.

[ChemEng]

61. So the enemy of my enemy is my friend?

No thanks...I doubt very many people would join hands with the Syrians just to spite the shrub. You need to become a tad more sophisticated in your thinking..

[Laurab]

63. No thanks, nothing sophisticated about another world war

I'm all for anything that will deter that, and the shrub administration is as bad, or worse, than the leadership of any other country today. And more dangerous because of their power. They're all for destroying the world, and I'm not sure there's another country anywhere who wants that. While spiting shrub is a bonus, it wasn't my point.

I don't fault ANY country for trying to deter an attack by our obviously insane warmonger of a leader. Sorry, but they have every reason to believe they'll be attacked, and every right to protect themselves.

You need to become a tad more reality-based in your thinking....

[solinvictus]

59. the Syrians are not nice guys. The ruling class is more like a mafioso

And this is different from Chimpzilla in what way?

[ChemEng]

60. Uh, I'm guessing car bombs is one example. Don't let

your hate of the chimp blind you to other relities. You sound a lot like Charles Lindburgh before WWII. "Old Hitler ain't so bad, but that god dam Roosevelt is going to send us all to hell." or something very close to that...

[applegrove]

25. How fast will that Texas Yukos suit against Russia disappear?

[cliss]

27. Dear DU:ers:

What we are watching is a gigantic game of Chess. It involves the entire world, and we are part of that group of pieces in the front called.......

pawns.

Bush moved his Queen (Condoliar) out last week. Bush has the Black Pieces. Suddenly, the White Side is frantically checking all the positions, making sure no pieces are vulnerable.

The pawns are.....a convenient buffer.

Today, Putin pulled out the Bishop. Bush pulls back his Queen.

Check mate.....coming up.

[Kool Kitty]

29. Very good analogy, cliss.

Hit the nail right on the head.

ChemEng-I don't like to see anyone selling weapons to anybody-but seeing Bush be proved wrong in his assessment of Mr. Putin should just show people how wrong his assessments are 99.9% of the time. I could get a bit shadier with my gray, but it's getting late.

[0rganism]

30. Hey, it's just our good friend capitalism. Supply and demand, right?

The Russians appear to have re-adapted to capitalism quite nicely, thank you very much.

[applegrove]

34. They put the dirty Oil baron in jail and nationalized his company -

I guess just having some fun ... and trying to make sure nobody gets so rich that they could take over the government (like what happened to the Americans).

[DU GrovelBot]

33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

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This week is our first quarter 2005 fund drive. Democratic
Underground is a completely independent website. We depend almost entirely
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your support.

[ausiedownunderground]

35. Igla's are not widely used by militants-or US forces would be in deepshit.

If militants had their hands on iglas shoulder fired missiles the US would be getting "toasted" in Iraq by now. Certainly the Iraqi guerrillas would love to get their hands on vast quantities of iglas but all reports out of Iraq suggest they may only have a few, which are being used strategically on important targets. In fact some Arab media reported recently that Rummy was lucky to get out alive on his recent "secret" visit to Iraq. Not only was he bombarded by a rocket attack on the ground but the Guerrillas took a "potshot" at his aircraft with a Strela missile as he ran away. Very lucky man!
The major reason "The Bush Gang" and the Sharonnites are so worried about these arms sales is that in weapons technology Pootie Poots missiles are years ahead of what Raytheon and company can supply the US forces and IDF. In most weapons technology areas the US is king, but not in missile technology. In this area Pootie Poots is king. If the russians arm both Syria and Iran with iglas,iskander,sunburn and Yakhont missiles then "The Bush Gang" and the Sharonnites will loose their military advantage and any war will be far bloodier than most Americans could handle. I think Pootie Poots though wants the Americans "bogged down" in a quagmire that slowly but surely will drain US economic power and leave them vulnerable a few years down the track. To do this effectively he will supply Syria and Iran and the Iraqi Guerrillas with only so much missile technology. Enough to keep the US army "bogged" but not enough to make the US public think they've been defeated and call for a withdrawal. Like a slow drip draining the life away.
Some independent media sources over here are also reporting that US troops appear to be withdrawing from Fallujah back to Baghdad. Anything being said about this in the US media?

[jmcgowanjm]

39. Outstanding analysis-concise, to the point

We spend billions on vessels, machines.
They spend millions on missiles, hand held tech-
nology.

This equation alone consigns us to the dustbin of history.

Meanwhile, back in China:

China replacing the United States as the worlds leading consumer

by Lester R. Brown

Although the United States has long consumed the lion’s
share of the world’s resources, this situation is changing fast
as the Chinese economy surges ahead, overtaking the
United States in the consumption of one resource after
another.

Among the five basic food, energy, and industrial commodities—grain and meat, oil and coal,
and steel—consumption in China has already eclipsed that
of the United States in all but oil.
In another key area, fertilizer—essentially nitrates
and potash—China’s use is double that of the United
States

Among the leading consumer products, China trails the United States only in automobiles. By 2003, it had 24 million motor vehicles, scarcely one tenth the 226 million on U.S. roads. But with car sales doubling over the last two years, China’s fleet is growing fast.

http://energybulletin.net/4357.html

[DistantWind88]

40. That's why there surrogates, the Serbs,

armed with Russian missiles and doctrine were so successful against the USAF during Bosnia and Kosovo.

[jmcgowanjm]

41. that's right-Nato(US) was taken aback by the Russians' arrival

"I'm not going to start the Third World War for you," he
reportedly told General Clark during one heated
exchange.
General Jackson tells the BBC: ''We were
a possibility....of confrontation with the Russian contingent
which seemed to me probably not the right way to start off
a relationship with Russians who were going to become part
of my command.''

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/671495.stm

[DistantWind88]

42. Yeah they shot

down what? Two aircraft?

[jmcgowanjm]

43. Myths of the Air War over Serbia

a cautionary note about the public’s unfounded faith in the abilityof the American military

We did well against civilian infrastructure—less well against
a dispersed enemy already in place, not on the move, and
well camouflaged among the civilian population of Kosovo.
The precise reasons for the ultimate Serbian withdrawal
remain unclear; one cannot assert that PGMs won the
war. Coalition perseverance, Russian arm-twisting,
internal Serbian political disagreements, failure to crack
NATO’s political cohesion—all may have played an
important role in that decision. We just don’t
know(any of this sound familiar?)

http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/apj/apj00/win00/hammond.htm

[DistantWind88]

44. I'm not arguing the effectiveness

of airpower based on one person's opinion. He may well be right concerning the impact airpower had on the conflict; I don't happen to agree with him though. Bottom line. Serbia capitulated and we never needed troops on the ground.

The point I was making--the vaunted Soviet/Russian IADS they had was pretty worthless against the USAF.

[jmcgowanjm]

47. Right-the point I was making

Against a determined enemy,
US air power means nothing w/o boots on the ground.

Lt Gen Mike Short, USAF, Retired—has commented about the
air war over Serbia, “This was little more than random
bombing of military targets that achieved victory
by happenstance.”14

And once you get boots on the ground, all the enemy
has to do is hug our forces, just as the Republican
Guard is doing, and maintain combat in urban areas,
where US air in support of ground forces then comes
w/in range of simple SAMS/guns.

Simple, yet effective.

[DistantWind88]

48. That's

Why it worked so well in Bosnia, Kosovo, and Iraq (twice).

[jmcgowanjm]

53. What worked so well? n/t

[rustydad]

45. Right on the head

Your analysis is perfect. Russia is determined to avoid the old Soviet mistake of taking on the US with arms parity. It was too expensive back then and is still today not cost effective. Instead the Russians are looking at asymmetric weapons. Using a $30,000 dollar Sunburn or Onyx cruise missile to sink a billion dollar carrier is pretty good return on investment. They will let us be tantalizingly close to controlling the ME and Caspian as we slowly bleed financially. After all we taught them the game. If we avoid an all out nuclear war then the winners in the global countdown to major world resource competition will be the economic winners. In that field the USA is in deep dodo. Bob

[DistantWind88]

46. That's why Soviet

equipped and trained militaries (Iraq, Serbia) have kicked the shit out of the USAF and the USN in recent years.

[jmcgowanjm]

49. No nation/state has ever defeated 4thGenAssymetrical enemy

You're looking at the wrong yardstick.

All the enemy has to do is maintain, while the
nation/state has to maintain a vast infrastructure
and show that it is winning.

That was absolutely true in 1945, and largely true even in
1985. But not anymore. If you look at only those
foreign investments that could be liquidated fairly quickly,
the total, he estimates, would come to about $8 trillion. If
those investments started to move elsewhere, the value of
the dollar could be cut in half, Dyer estimates,
overnight.

That would mean not only no more Lincoln Navigators, it
more than likely would lead to the end of democracy as we
know it. Which would be especially unfortunate since, as
he notes, “global warming and other environmental
problems are going to hit us very hard over the next
50 years.”

http://207.44.245.159/article8077.htm

[DistantWind88]

51. No one has ever FOUGHT one either.

[jmcgowanjm]

52. OK n/t

[NNN0LHI]

36. U.S. remains leader in global arms sales, report says

http://www.notinourname.net/war/global-arms-sales-25sep03.htm

Thom Shanker
The New York Times
September 25, 2003

The United States maintained its dominance in the international arms market last year, especially in sales to developing nations, according to a new Congressional report.

The United States was the leader in total worldwide sales in 2002, with about $13.3 billion, or 45.5 percent of global conventional weapons deals, a rise from $12.1 billion in 2001. Of that, $8.6 billion was to developing nations, or about 48.6 percent of conventional arms deals concluded with developing nations last year, according to the report.

Russia was second in sales to the developing world last year, with $5 billion, followed by France with $1 billion.

While the report focuses on sales and deliveries of conventional weapons from the industrialized world to poorer nations, it also offers a glimpse into such issues as missile proliferation by North Korea and foreign weapons transfers to Iraq.

The new report, "Conventional Arms Transfers to Developing Nations, 1995-2002," was sent to the House and Senate this week by the Congressional Research Service, an arm of the Library of Congress. The annual study, written by Richard F. Grimmett, a specialist in national defense at the research service, is considered the most authoritative resource available to the public on worldwide weapons sales.

more

[Chango]

50. Advice to Bush:

Take another look into Pooty-poots eyes.

[ausiedownunderground]

54. I don't think the USAF is winning in Iraq??

1470,killed and 11,000 wounded OFFICIALLY!!! says to me that the USAF ain't doing their job too well. I think the RPG and the suicide bomber is winning this War! Although Fallujahans might not agree.

I think you'll find that the "mad alcoholic" Yeltsin and his "oligarch" chums were in some sort of control of Russia during the Bosnian war. I don't think missile technology development and transfer were high on their priorities. I think personnal acquiring of oil wells and mines were top of the list at the time.

But hey, if you think multi billion dollar development programs on F-22's and Star Wars missile interceptors and robotic soldiers are the way to go then have i got a bridge for you to buy. Actually The Pentagon or The Carlyle Group would probably have a great job for you!! Great minds think alike!

[pinniped]

56. Payback for the US supporting the Mujhideen in AFG...

during the Soviet/Afghan conflict.

[NNN0LHI]

65. A less advanced version of this missile downed an F-117 over Yugoslavia

http://www.zaman.com/?bl=international&alt=&hn=16656

Russia to Sell Syria Air Defense System
By Mirza Cetinkaya
Published: Thursday 17, 2005
zaman.com


Russia will reportedly sell air defense systems comprised of anti-aircraft missiles to Syria.

The air-defense missiles that Syria will purchase will change the power balance in the region and Israel is insisting that Moscow cancel the project. According to reports yesterday by the Interfax Russian news agency which are based on Russian Ministry of Defense sources, the administrations of the two countries have been negotiating a deal on the purchase and sale of Strelets air defense missile systems. Although the details remain unclear, the missiles are expected to be short-range. snip

Sources from the Russian Ministry of Defense note that the air defense system to be sold to Syria is a more developed form of Soviet made missiles called 'Igla'. A US F-17 plane was brought down by the 'Igla system' during the North Atlantic Treaty Organization's (NATO) intervention in former Yugoslavia. The CEO of the Russian state' weapon company Rosoboronexport, Sergei Chemezov, noted that Arab countries have recently become seriously interested in Russian air defense systems.

F-117 Nighthawk

[MountainLaurel]

66. Looks like we're gonna get that Apocalypse

That the doomsday cults currently running the White House have been having wet dreams about since Y2K fizzled.