Lynndie England faces new set of charges

[Rose Siding]

Military prosecutors have filed a new set of charges against Pfc. Lynndie England that significantly reduces the Army reservist's potential prison sentence should she be convicted of detainee abuses at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
England, who became a central figure in the scandal because she appeared in some of the most notorious photographs of mistreatment, now faces a maximum of 16 1/2 years in prison on nine criminal counts, according to members of her defense team. According to the new charge sheets, nearly half of the alleged offenses stem from two single digital photographs of England that became instant icons: One taken on Oct. 23, 2003, which shows her holding a detainee by a leash, and one on Nov. 7, 2003, in which she is seen posing with detainees arranged in a human pyramid.

...The original charges carried a maximum of nearly 30 years in prison, according to England's lawyer.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/terrorism/s_305052.html

[chicagojoe]

1. She belongs in jail along with her commanders. Period.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Here is the rub though

her commanders, who properly shoudl face the music faster than a lowly enlisted (Nuremberg did nto go after anybody bellow E-4 because they are still very much into saying yes sir three bags full), are not.

I want to see BGen Karpinsky at the Hague... as well as Lt Gen Boykin, under secreatary for policy Cambone, under secretary wolfowitz, secretary rumsfeld, AG Gonzales and President Bush, on and everybody in between Karponsky all teh way down to PfC England... and when all is said and done, England should face lesser penalties, again Nuremberg statue, and the harsher penanlties should be faced by the ones named above

[lies and propaganda]

17. are you kidding me?

You punish the order givers, not the order takers.

Dont know if you have had any sort of military experience, but you dont have a choice darling. You dont do it, get court martialed for a fuck lot more, and then a dishonorable discharge to deal with for the rest of forever.

People getting padid the big bucks, sitting in the nice a/c tents, with pretty metal emblems on their collars told these "few bad apples" to engage in bad appledom.

[fit4life]

24. Not exactly.

You're not required to follow any order that is considered an unlawful order. You may suffer in the short-term for your refusal, but wouldn't you rather have that then be on trial like England is now?

She had a choice, and she made a bad one.

[TheFarseer]

2. OK, Lyndie England is a dumb bitch, that said......

I seriously don't think she should get 30 years in prison for leading a prisoner around by a leash or posing with naked prisoners and all that. She's definitely being scapegoated and it's not right. She should get some sort of punishment, but they're going way overboard.

[BiggJawn]

6. The more they pile on her, the less for the higher-ups...

it's called "Making an Example" out of someone. They crucify her with rusty nails, and Murka's Indignation Gorge is satisfied, and we go back to sleeping in front of our "must-see Teeeeeeee-Veeeeeees" while the higher-ups that ordered the abuse have another martini and comptemplate their upcoming retirements.

[atreides1]

7. I'd be happy if they give her the same as they gave Graner

We don't know what was done to the prisoner to get him into that leash, and we don't know what other part she might have played in "convincing" him.

As for the poses with the naked prisoners, once again we don't know what part she may have played, or how active of a role she had.

And the "scapegoat" label is getting thin. Even Graner admitted he knew right from wrong during his courtmartial, but that it didn't matter. That's not a scapegoat that's someone who has very little regard for other human beings.

All those involved were being told what a great job they were doing and to get those little pats on the head, these "Pavlov's dogs" did whatever it took. They are not scapegoats, they knew what they were doing and they knew it was wrong but they did it anyway.

For lack of a better term they are amoral, or as our fundie enemies like to say, evil!!!!!

[TheFarseer]

10. I won't go out of my way to defend Lyndie England

but 30 years when, as you said, they possibly were being told, "Great job, keep up the good work" is insane. And the bastards that were encouraging this are being promoted to upper level cabinet positions! None of this makes any sense. Consequences for actions are all out of whack. I think a year in prison and a dishonorable discharge is plenty.

[rkc3]

8. Why should you get 30 years for what sounds like a long weekend of fun?

[Conservativesux]

29. Can you explain what you mean by this?

[zbdent]

3. Wait a minute - so she's been convicted of charges, and if she's convicted

of even more charges

HER F*CKING SENTENCE CAN BE REDUCED?????

Only in America . . .

[Obamanaut]

15. She hasn't been tried yet

The original charges were dropped, and new charges have been made. The potential maximum for the new charges (if convicted) are less than the potential max for the previous (dropped) charges.

"Prosecutors at Fort Hood in Texas filed the new charges Feb. 11, several weeks after England's initial charges were dropped outright so her case could be transferred from Fort Bragg in North Carolina. The original charges carried a maximum of nearly 30 years in prison, according to England's lawyers"

[Guckert]

4. A little mud wresling and she would have been home.

[Dogmudgeon]

9. Everybody likes to see a cute girl get punished

Why, there's a whole entire genre of porn dedicated to it.

Note that most of the bad-conduct discipline so far has been against the enlisted women. The highest-visibility charges are always those against enlisted women.

Makes you kind of wonder ...

--p!

[RebelOne]

12. Cute?? n/t

[TheFarseer]

21. yeah, I wouldn't f**k her with Bea Aurthur's dick

a special thanks to Jeffery Ross for that joke.

[Conservativesux]

28. No kidding! That chick is HOMELY !!!! St. Peter says he wouldnt do her :)

[Solly Mack]

11. Aside from England, MPs involved were brought to Mannheim

to be held for a while. Mannheim has an American military prison. They weren't here all that long.

This was before we got here... but we learned that the November 7th picture was taken during England's birthday party. Graner got the party together for her.

England's birthday is November 8th.

Edit to add:
it was 4 of the 7 held here in Mannheim for pre-trial (article 32) hearings.

[DS1]

13. Beastility?

I would've thought they'd slap that charge on that other dude :evilgrin:

[LinuxInsurgent]

14. NO CLEMENCY FOR ENGLAND...

and get the commanders too..

I protest a reduction of her sentence...nobody ever reduces the sentences of regular blacks and Latinos in this country...but we are supposed to cry for this inhuman white trash?

No way.

[Conservativesux]

30. Agreed. This should be a country where everone is equal.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

16. I feel sorry for her kid.

[athenap]

18. Sure, she was a patsy...

...but I'm sorry--anybody who's seen the movie "A Few Good Men" has to have figured out that "just following orders" is the fastest way to get screwed. And sorry, but even if you work in a prison, stripping away the dignity of another human being ought to at least send up a red flag for anyone having any sort of sense of morality.

[TNOE]

19. The whole thing is a mess

from start to finish

First, she shouldn't have ever been sent over there - none of them should have

Second, the Geneva Conventions should have been followed and the so called "prisoners" treated with decency and respect

Third, she's just some poor uneducated slob from the hills of West Virginia without the mental capacity to think for herself

It just goes on and on - I gotta say I feel sorry for her even though I deplore her actions.

So typical, the brass gets away with their crimes and all the little guys take the fall. In the real world - Bush et al would have been held responsible in the long run. But, not gonna happen.

[davsand]

20. She had the right to say no.

I have not been in the military,and maybe I am dead wrong, but don't soldiers have the right to say NO to any order they consider to be illegal? I'm sure a horrible commander could make them rue the day they said no, but I think it is part of the USMCJ that they can just say no.

In her case, she may be an under-educated hick, she might be as bright as a 20 watt bulb, but whatever you want to say about it, there is just NO way she didn't know this was wrong. I am convinced that it would take a level of mental impairment far beyond hers to think that abuse of prisoners is acceptable or legal.

Send her away to jail and pray that her guards are more humane than she was.


Laura

[Disturbed]

22. Accountablity?

That is only reserved for the underlings.

If Amerika wasn't a Fascist Nation now, the higher ups would be on trial, as well.

[Infomaniac]

23. Dumb

I did things I regret at 19 or 20 and I wasn't an uneducated hick from the hollows of West Virginia. I didn't do anything that could compare with her actions; but my misspent youth was, well, misspent. I do find it deplorable that only these low-level schmucks are being charged with the crimes while the higher-ups get promoted.

[superconnected]

25. the social environment promoted this

sure she went along, but look who she was surrounded by. How many of her peers and higher ups were not promoting this.

I don't think she should get 30 years. Like everyone else, I think they should go after the chain of command. A few years punnishment is fine - providing everyone in the lower ranks involved, gets it and the higher ups get more. But skipping her higher ups, and her peer group and going after just the people in the pics looks like they aren't out to go after anyone that public opinion didn't see. Makes you wonder wether the army thinks she did anything wrong other than get photographed.

[Big_Mike]

26. I say the accountability level ends at Karpinski

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Brigade staff is supposed to keep things down to the Company level in line. That means the staff stooges get off their asses and go look at subordinate operations. That, in turn, pushes the Bns to go look down to the platoon level, and the Companies down to Squad level. My main question has always been this: Where were the Bde and Bn CSMs and the company First Shirt? That is who should have caught this, squashed the violators, and straightened things out. Those NCOs also should be up for dereliction.

[TheWraith]

27. C'mon, Lynndie, cut a deal.

Sing for us, you evil little bitch.