USS Jimmy Carter to Be Commissioned

[KeepItReal]

"The USS Jimmy Carter enters the Navy's fleet as the most heavily armed submarine ever built, and as the last of the Seawolf class of attack subs that the Pentagon (news - web sites) ordered during the Cold War's final years.

The $3.2 billion Jimmy Carter will be commissioned Saturday, signaling the end of an era in submarining and more uncertain times for the multibillion-dollar industry."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&e=2&u=/ap/uss_jimmy_carter

Congrats Mr. President. Good to see the Navy isn't on the whatever-it-is-name-it-after-Reagan/Bush kick.

Hope this won't affect your Nobel Peace Prize, though. Is that irony?

[orpupilofnature57]

1. Deserving , a great friend to the planet and mankind in general

His demise as a politician was honesty. His work after office has been stellar, he should be a shoe in for the NOBEL.

[Cooley Hurd]

4. Mornin' pupil!

:hi::hangover:

President Carter's example should be followed by everyone, not just ex-presidents. And today, he'll be honored by the commissioning of the USS Jimmy Carter - which, of course, is making the freepers nuts...:thumbsup:

[oasis]

2. May the ship have a long term of service and live up to her namesake.

:toast:

[KeepItReal]

3. I agree

<EOM>

[liberal N proud]

5. The President did serve on a Submarine

[penpal7]

6. carter

your basic nice guy

[leveymg]

7. I'm sure JC would rather the $3.2 billion went to Habitat for Humanity

But, that would be a parallel universe in which G.H.W. Bush and his ex-CIA pals hadn't hindered Carter's hostage release efforts, and Reagan-Bush had never been elected.

[davepc]

8. the USS Jimmy Carter is the most advanced submarine in the US fleet

http://navysite.de/ssn/ssn23.htm

[leveymg]

11. Okay. So, what are we going to do with the thing, now?

Designed to go after a deep blue seas adversary that has almost ceased to exist.

I know! Maybe we can use it to chase Iranian inflatable speed boats in the Straights of Hormuz.

About as useful as a Dreadnought.

[davepc]

13. It had its capabilities modified from the original Seawolf class

http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/cno/n87/usw/issue_5/ussjimmycarter.html

SN-23 and the Multi-mission Project
The new missions and design concepts outlined by the DSB and NDIA reconfirmed the soundness of the Navy's plan to provide one of the three Seawolf (SSN-21)-class submarines with advanced, versatile multi-mission functionality. The third of the class, USS Jimmy Carter (SSN-23) was chosen to serve as a test bed for studying the evolution of submarine missions in the 21st century. It will support classified research, development, test, and evaluation (RDT&E) efforts for notional naval special warfare (NSW) missions, tactical undersea surveillance, and undersea warfare concepts.


<snip>

A Wasp Waist for More Ocean Access
The planned alterations include lengthening the hull behind the sail and inserting an Ocean Interface (OI) section that will support the Multi-Mission Project by opening larger payload apertures to the sea. The resulting modular architecture will allow the ship to be configured for specific missions using interchangeable payloads and tailored support services, yet it will preserve the submarine's core mission capabilities for normal tasking.

<snip>

Full Seawolf Warfighting Capabilities - plus Special Operations

Despite her modification to conduct classified RDT&E, Jimmy Carter will retain all her organic warfighting capability, as shown in the accompanying table. She will support the fleet commander as an attack submarine in conducting undersea warfare, surveillance and reconnaissance, covert special operations, mine warfare, and strike operations, just as her two sister ships do. She will also be available to the Navy to test future concepts for weapons, countermeasures, and non-traditional payloads - tasking that is currently divided among several submarines. In addition to these robust capabilities, Jimmy Carter will also be capable of supporting Special Operations Forces (SOF), with provision for operating the Dry Deck Shelter (DDS) and Advanced SEAL Delivery System (ASDS).

<snip>

Jimmy Carter had already been programmed to support NSW, but the additional volume and length of the OI provides even greater potential to develop new roles for submarines in special operations. The OI will provide a hangar or garage capability foJimmy Carter brings many new innovations into the submarine design r locking-in and locking-out future generations of SEAL delivery vehicles, and her reconfigurable cargo area can accommodate dry stowage and access for maintenance. Other internal volume will be available as command and control space for mission planning and monitoring, plus dedicated berthing space for up to fifty SOF Team members. The extra external volume created by the hourglass design allows for stowage of SOF supplies like Combat Raiding Craft, fuel, munitions or delivery vehicles.

Cliff notes: as well as having the capabilities of a normal Seawolf class sub, she also is specialy modifed to deliver Navy SEALs, and support their missions well beyond every other sub in the fleet, and she also is the only sub in the Navy that can tap deep sea underwater data cables.

[leveymg]

14. Seems a lot of $$$ to insert a few scuba divers and tap undersea cables.

Don't we already do that stuff, but without the nuclear propulsion?

Kindalike using a B-2 bomber to deliver paratroops.

[davepc]

16. not really

The USS Parche was decommissioned after 30 years of service, and no other sub in the navy has the wire tap capability (at least that is publicly known).

And no other sub can hold as many SEALs nor support them on station as effectively as the USS Jimmy Carter is designed to do.

And bombers do deliver paratroops in certain instances.

[leveymg]

18. UVs can dive a lot deeper with less risk to do cable intercepts

About the manned payload in a B-2, thought that was my idea.

Shucks.

[davepc]

19. have any links to info about deep sea UV's that have that capability?

I'm intrested in learning more about them.

[leveymg]

23. Will get back to you on that, Dave

[hack89]

28. UVs require surface support ships

Make covert operations kind of hard.

[leveymg]

46. Not if they're dropped from the air.

Would you want to risk a $3.2 billion attack sub with a lot of guys in it for cable monitoring missions, if you had the alternative of an expendible air-delivered UV?

Okay, granted, the sub can normally serve as a splendid mother ship for this sort of NSA tasking, or for delivering SEAL teams. But, there are times, when the environment is not suitable to a close approach by such a large, expensive vessel.

So, if you have this air-drop alternative, where's the necessity for the sub?

[wuushew]

34. Why spend any money to ILLEGALLY tap wires in the first place?

Isn't that why we have laws in the first place, to prevent certain actions deemed detrimental to one or more parties? American exceptionalism is sickening.

Nationalism is dead and the Cold War is over. The new boogey man of terrorism is just a cheap excuse to prop up the military industrial complex and corporate America in general. I am waiting for my share of the promised peace dividend.

[davepc]

35. Yes, because the United States is the only nation that

does signals intelligence.

Give me a break.

How does a nation make good sound policy decisions in an information vacuum?

[wuushew]

36. Who do think owns communication infrastructure?

The Europeans, Russians and China. Unless we are actively are planning on becoming militarily belligerent with these countries why can't we just use diplomacy and rational foreign policy to resolve disputes?

If you are worried about industrial espionage tough break, there are market and legal recourses of action that appeal to me much more than the you need to break some eggs mentality of American military operations.

Many of the things that the United States does violate both the ideals of the left and the right. Projecting power beyond ones own political boundaries, engaging in activities without mutual consent of parties and subjectivism are all insulting to the libertarian right. The jackbooted results of American policy and the lack of compassion are anathema to the left.

If we break the rules it is an incentive for our so called opponents to emulate our activities, the tension and expense constantly escalating. Maybe if the U.S. got the fuck out of the rest of the world's business and instead concentrated domestic tranquility and energy independence we would not be in so many moral quandaries.

[davepc]

37. wow

The Europeans, Russians and China. Unless we are actively are planning on becoming militarily belligerent with these countries why can't we just use diplomacy and rational foreign policy to resolve disputes?

How can you create a rational foreign policy and use diplomacy when you only see 1/2 of the chessboard and can only move the pieces with one hand?

If you are worried about industrial espionage tough break, there are market and legal recourses of action that appeal to me much more than the you need to break some eggs mentality of American military operations.

I don't even know what you're talking about here.

Many of the things that the United States does violate both the ideals of the left and the right. Projecting power beyond ones own political boundaries, engaging in activities without mutual consent of parties and subjectivism are all insulting to the libertarian right. The jackbooted results of American policy and the lack of compassion are anathema to the left.

Only the most naive believe in altruism in foreign policy, but that's beyond the scope of what the USS Jimmy Carter is designed for. I'm no fan of imperialism or fascist expansionism as promoted by the current administration, but to suggest that we as a nation would be somehow better off if we intentionally blinded and deafened ourselves in order to protect some idealistic notion of how nations should behave...well..that's just lunacy.

If we break the rules it is an incentive for our so called opponents to emulate our activities, the tension and expense constantly escalating. Maybe if the U.S. got the fuck out of the rest of the world's business and instead concentrated domestic tranquility and energy independence we would not be in so many moral quandaries.

What rules? Yeah, the United States is the big bad wolf spying on everyone while the rest of the nations in this world do absolutely nothing of the sort, even our "allies". Please. Naivety at its finest.

One day the White House and congress will have well intentioned Democrats in positions of power, making decisions that matter. I firmly believe they will reject the fascist imperialism of the current Republican administration. But they sure as hell better govern and direct policy using the full spectrum of information and knowledge available to this nation and to themselves in order to best decide on a course of action.

There is no moral quandary. We spy on people. That's how we learn what's going on, and develop methods and strategy on how to react to it.

Information is power, and any nation that willfully makes itself unable to collect information is setting itself up to be manipulated and bullied by other actors who have a better understanding of the full geo-political picture.

I often times wonder why people see us as soft on defense, but then people with your viewpoint express themselves and remind me of just where that stereotype comes from.

[rppper]

47. if you'd like to know just how important subs are too......

our national defence and our espionage capabilities, read "blind mans bluff" by sherry sontag...a very detailed and entertaining book about submarines and their role in our espionage against a host of countries over the last 50 years....great read....this coming from an ex-submariner. subs give you more bang for the buck than any other platform. the cost of the jimmy carter now will more than pay for itself in capability over the next 20 or 30 years...the seawolf was intended to be a modular design, meaning room for upgrades is already there...this saves yard and conversion costs. it also means they will not have to sink more money into developing another, more costly platform in the immediate future. it is an incredible boat, really, but then again i admire subs.

i can see your point here, but if you are of the thought that russian "fishing trawlers" stopped "fishing" off of our coast when the cold war ended, you are very ill informed. we are not the only country doing this just as we are not the only victims of it. it's unfortunate that we still have to do this, but i would rather see with both eyes wide open rather than shut.

[Mockingbird]

9. You don't think a GWBush is already in the plan to reframe the world?

I think its fabulous that Carter is being honored.

He deserves a fair amount of credit.

Didn't have a stellar presidency, but he was undermined (not a good thing for a submariner) & had to deal with the aftermath of Vietnam.

-------

Isn't there something about scuttling the John F. Kennedy?
This'll be the last of the honorable presidents named.

I wonder if the Kennedy getting scuttled is partly to make room for a "GW Bush" when they decide they want a new craft as it is to "downsize" excess craft.

They are naming everything for Reagan & Bush.
Its part of their colonization process, in order to fabricate statesmanship. Even Minnesota which never voted for Reagan is replacing their Paul Bunyan & Babe the blue ox statues for Reagan.

[davepc]

10. The USS Kennedy

is the 3rd oldest aircraft carrier in the fleet.

36 years is a good lifespan for a modern warship. Anyways she wont be retired untill CVN 79 is built, but that wont happen untill 2018.

[Mockingbird]

12. Scuttled my tirade

I know its an old carrier & past its prime.
I am not really against updating it.

Am in favor of honoring Carter - its great that the good guys win one, though I had dire expectations at the time, he did not turn out to be the nutcase that I expected.

That experience (despite Reagan) had me lulled a little when GW Nutcase hit the scene.

Just that I have come to realize everything is an effort to reframe the message, define relevancy & hijack integrity rather than earn it.

And the caffeine hasn't kicked in yet.


By the way, nice photos.

[baldguy]

15. Know what I'm thinking?

CVN 79 = USS William Jefferson Clinton

[merwin]

17. Wow, how ironic! The most armed submarine for the most peace loving

and diplomatic president ever. I thought Carter liked to deal with nations through talk, not blowing the shit out of them.

Oh well, just the administration reframing history to fit their needs i guess.

[davepc]

20. You realize the name was selected in the mid 1990's right?

April 27, 1998 to be exact.

[merwin]

25. Oh really? That seems a bit odd to me that Clinton would do this.

But whatever... I guess having a ship named after you is an honor, but the most heavily armed warship for a peace loving diplomat and negotiator? It just doesn't seem right.

[DemoTex]

21. Jimmy Carter spent more time on active duty than any modern president.

Gov. Jimmy Carter in Georgia Army Guard OV-1 Mohawk

[davepc]

22. Lets not shortchange Eisenhower

Carter spent more time on active duty then any president in the past 44 years...

I consider Ike to be "modern".

[DemoTex]

26. You are correct.

Carter was #2 behind Ike.

[Big_Mike]

30. No, he'd be #3

Harry Truman rose to Col in Artillery in the National Guard, after being a Battery Commander in WWI.

I do have to say that it is very appropriate that as a plankowner in Seawolf, a Seawolf is named after him.

[hedgehog]

24. I don't like naming ships for any living person

even if he's one of ours.

[donsu]

27. it's shameful that peaceful Carter lets his name be on a killing machine

and his wife is to call the troops to man the killing machine.

Carter is being a hypocrite.

[davepc]

29. Was he being a hypocrite when he was an officer in the United States Navy?

[donsu]

31. what yrs. was he in the Navy? was he drafted? what war?

I don't know his military stats.

it seems conflicting: peaceful warrior

is that possible?

[davepc]

32. He graduated from the United Stats Naval Academy Annapolis, MD 1943-1946

59th in a class of 820.

http://www.jimmycarterlibrary.org/documents/jec/jcnavy.phtml

# 05 JUN 1946 - 8 AUG 1946 -- Commissioned Ensign, USN. Routine post-USNA graduation assignments- indoctrinational training with service type aircraft - leave and transit to first duty station.

# 8 AUG 1946 - 23 JUL 1947 -- Duty aboard USS Wyoming (E-AG17). Billets Held: Deck Division Officer, Radar Officer, CIC Officer Qualifications: OOD in Port, JOOD underway. Remarks: Detached from Wyoming at ship's decommissioning.

# 23 JUL 1947 - 14 JUN 1948 -- Duty aboard USS Mississippi (E-AG128). Billets Held: Training and Education Officer Qualifications: OOD underway and in port, CIC watch Officer Remarks: During this tour of duty, Carter was a candidate for a Rhodes Scholarship.

# 14 JUN 1948 - 17 DEC 1948 -- Duty under instruction at the Officer's course, USN Submarine School, Submarine Base, New London

# 17? DEC 1948 - 01 FEB 1951 -- Duty aboard USS Pomfret (SS-391) Billets Held: Communications Officer, Electronics Officer, Sonar Officer, Gunnery Officer, First Lieutenant, Electrical Officer, Supply Officer Qualifications: 4 Feb 1950 Qualified in Submarine

# 05 JUNE 1949 -- Promoted to Lieutenant (j.g.)

# 01 FEB 1951 - 10 NOV 1951 -- Duty with Shipbuilding and Naval Inspector of Ordnance, Groton, CT as prospective Engineering Officer of the USS K-1 during precommissioning fitting out of the submarine.

# 10 NOV 1951 - 16 OCT 1952 -- Duty aboard USS K-1(SSK-1) Billets Held: Executive Officer, Engineering Officer, Operations Officer, Gunnery Officer, Electronics Repair Officer Qualifications: Qualified for Command of Submarine Remarks: Submarine was new construction, first vessel of its class

# 01 JUNE 1952 -- Promoted to Lieutenant

# 16 OCT 1952 - 08 OCT 1953 -- Duty with US Atomic Energy Commission (Division of Reactor Development, Schenectady Operations Office) From 3 NOV 1952 to 1 MAR 1953 he served on temporary duty with Naval Reactors Branch, US Atomic Energy Commission, Washington, D.C. "assisting in the design and development of nuclear propulsion plants for naval vessels." From 1 MAR 1953 to 8 OCT 1953 he was under instruction to become an engineering officer for a nuclear power plant. He also assisted in setting up on-the-job training for the enlisted men being instructed in nuclear propulsion for the USS Seawolf (SSN575).

# 9 OCT 1953 -- Honorably discharged at Headquarters, 3rd Naval District. Discharge was at Carter's request. Total service: 7 years, 4 months, 8 days

# 10 OCT 1953 -- Appointed to US Naval Reserve and placed on inactive duty.

# 7 DEC 1961 -- Transferred to retired reserve with rank of Lieutenant at his own request, but without pay and allowances in accordance with Title X, U.S.C. section 1376 (a).e Navy.




And yes, it is possible.

[CTyankee]

38. I saw the USS Jimmy Carter

in a boat trip out of New London, CT last September. It was awesome seeing it there. The pics made me remember (it was just getting dark when we passed it).

[Laurab]

50. I think there are many "peaceful warriors"

At one time (prior to the shrub administration), and before the Vietnam war was exposed for what it really was, service to one's country was an honorable thing to do. It wasn't about killing people for oil, it wasn't about "spreading freedom" to people who didn't want our kind of "freedom" forced down their throats. My dad served in the Korean war - not to go out and kill anyone (and actually he was a cook, and never saw combat), but at that time it was a patriotic thing to do, and something that was expected.

I think there are many, many members of our armed forces who joined because they thought they were being patriotic and defending their country. GWBushit has abused their trust, as well as ours. I believe there are many "peaceful warriors" in the military, who, unfortunately, will pay the highest price of this administration's lust for war.


I would venture a guess that Jimmy Carter was doing his patriotic duty, as well.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[JPZenger]

39. USS George H.W. Bush - I'm Not Making This Up

The newest multi-billion dollar nuclear aircraft carrier under construction is the U.S.S. George H. W. Bush. It will join another nuclear aircraft carrier - the U.S.S. Ronald Reagan. Meanwhile, there are not any U.S. ships named after that guy who wrote the Declaration of Independence - I forget his name - oh, I remember now, Thomas Jefferson.

(It was ironic justice that the most expensive government office building in history was named after Ronald Reagan. All those thousands of Federal bureaucrats that Reagan hated are working in D.C. in a building that is named after him.)

$3.2 billion does sound extremely expensive for one submarine. There is always a danger that an enemy will invent a $50 million underwater missile or torpedo that will destroy a $3.2 billion vessel. That happened during the Falklands War - a $100 million modern British guided missile cruiser was destroyed by a single $1 million missile. The crew didn't even know the missile was even coming towards them until a lookout saw it skimming above the water a few seconds before it hit.

[davepc]

40. USS Thomas Jefferson (SSBN 618)

http://navysite.de/ssbn/ssbn618.htm

USS THOMAS JEFFERSON was the fifth and final ETHAN ALLEN - class nuclear powered fleet ballistic missile submarine and the second ship in the Navy to bear the name.

After 18 years of service, the THOMAS JEFFERSON was redesignated as SSN 618 to comply with the SALT I treaty on March 11, 1981, and concrete blocks were placed in the missile tubes to disable the submarine's missile launch capability. She served as an attack submarine (SSN) mainly doing exercises until she was decommissioned on January 24, 1985, and stricken from the Navy list on April 30, 1986. On October 1, 1996, the THOMAS JEFFERSON entered the Navy's Nuclear Powered Ship and Submarine Recycling Program at the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard, Bremerton, Wash., which was completed on March 6, 1998.

[Rhiannon12866]

41. How wonderful! And how appropriate!

It couldn't happen to a more deserving honoree! And it won't affect his Peace Prize, since it's primarily used for defense.:-)

[Borgnine]

42. Jimmy Carter could still run for one more term as President.

Sigh. The last true man of honor to ever hold that office. A lousy politician, but I think he was just too honest to be efficient, and you can't knock him for that.

[Spiritspeaker]

43. I really doubt that he would ever run.

I think that he realizes that he has moved far beyond the realm of politics. If, on the other hand, he did run again, I, for one would vote for him.

I am grateful for having Jimmy as an example of what an ex-president can become if he is allowed to follow his heart ... and his honor.* Thanks, Jimmy.


Peace, Light and Love,
Gabriel


*Bush, though, will not have to worry about that ... because he has shown clearly that he has no honor.

[Darth_Kitten]

48. Welcome to DU, Spiritspeaker!

:D

[Spiritspeaker]

49. Thanks

I appreciate the frindly welcome.


Peace, Light and Love,
Gabriel

[IronLionZion]

51. it's sad when honest people make lousy politicians

sad but true. Fucking reagan and the Iranians :grr:

Although, if anyone looks back in history, the wise and honest Jimmy Carter ran for governor on a segregationist platform and supported George Wallace. His biggest support bloc were racists. He obviously changed his views since then.

[ausiedownunderground]

44. Its a "Sub" - Democratic Underground - Love it!!!!!

Let the ReThuglican's call America's "Most Powerful" Carrier Ronald Reagan!! Easy "Sunburn" or "Silkworm" target! Let Carter's most powerful weapon be a Submarine!!! Quite, but stealthy. When the "Captain" gets the call from the "Bush Gang" to "Let Loose" with everything you've got he/she checks their "Liberal" bloggers for REAL confirmation that this is actually a "Serious" US Crisis!

[pokercat999]

45. the most heavily armed submarine ever built

Ok, but can it build a house?