Most Americans want troops home this year

[lovuian]

http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=f0c0a7a10f517ee2

Nearly 60 percent of Americans want most U.S. troops to return from Iraq in the next year, a poll released Friday indicates.

It was the largest percentage of respondents to say this since Harris International began polling on the issue in 2003.

Fifty-nine percent of respondents said they wanted to bring most troops home in the next year, while less than half, 47 percent, said they wanted to keep a large number of troops in Iraq until a stable government is established.

The poll found respondents split on whether the war in Iraq strengthened or weakened the war on terror, 46 percent vs. 48 percent, but the vast majority said they thought deposed leader Saddam Hussein would have made weapons of mass destruction if he had the capability

more...

Americans are getting tired!!!

[Dr Ron]

1. The poll had many good things, and many bad

The good is above.

The poll also showed considerable misconceptions, such as believing there was a connection between Iraq and al Qaeda, and that the 9/11 hijackers were Iraquis.

I posted more on this yesterday at:
http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/?view=plink&id=394

[lovuian]

2. Well that means their propoganda machine worked!!!

on making people think there was a connection!!!

[Dr Ron]

4. Yes, it worked

While not adderssed in this poll, other surverys showed that the more people watch Fox News, the more likley the were to believe things such as that there was WMD in Iraq and that Saddam was tied to 9/11.

As Al Franken put it, the more you watch Fox News, the dumber you get.

[LynnTheDem]

6. Links

Faux Moos viewers; 80% misinformed

NPR/PBS; 23% misinformed

http://truthout.org/docs_03/100403F.shtml

Misperceptions About Iraq War Contributed to Support For It

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1003-08.htm

[lebkuchen]

18. Phony journalism has its rewards

if you're a war-monger-in-chief.

[LynnTheDem]

8. Rightwingnuts don't even listen to BUSH RICE RUMSFELD POWELL...

Poll: Bush Supporters Still Believe Iraq Had WMD or Major Program,
Supported al Qaeda

http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Pres_Election_04/html/new_10_21_04.html

How many times do bush & his Cartel gotta say it???

Sky News (London): "One question for you both. Do you believe that there is a link between Saddam Hussein, a direct link, and the men who attacked on September the 11th?"

Bush: "I can't make that claim.'
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/01/20030131-23.html

Sept 17, 2003- Bush: No evidence Saddam Hussein involved in Nine-Eleven attacks
http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1447698

Sept 16, 2003- Rice: U.S. Never Said Saddam Was Behind 9/11
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/983821/posts

Sept 16, 2003- Rumsfeld sees no link between Saddam Hussein, 9/11
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-09-16-rumsfeld-iraq-911_x.htm

MSNBC - No proof links Iraq, al-Qaida, Powell says
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/ID/3909150

Aug 6, 2003- Wolfowitz: Iraq Was Not Involved In 9-11 Terrorist Attacks, No Ties To Al-Qaeda
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4372.htm

Brent Scowcroft, one of the Republican Party’s most respected foreign policy advisors;

"Don't Attack Saddam. It would undermine our antiterror efforts. There is scant evidence to tie Saddam to terrorist organizations, and even less to the Sept. 11 attacks."
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110002133

"To my knowledge, I have not seen any strong, hard evidence that links the two."
-Rumsfeld, Monday, October 4, 2004
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,10975887-1702,00.html

Allies Find No Links Between Iraq, Al Qaeda

"What I'm asked is if I've seen any evidence of that. (Iraq links to al Qaeda) And the answer is: I haven't.” -British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw, who supports U.S. invasion & occupation of Iraq.]
http://www.latimes.com/la-fg-noqaeda4nov04,0,4538810.story

British Intelligence agencies, MI6 and MI5

A dossier prepared by the two agencies “showed no discernible links between Iraq and al-Qaida,”
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=375403

Richard Kerr, a former deputy CIA director who lead an internal review of the CIA's prewar intelligence;

“the CIA has not found any proof of operational ties between al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein's regime.”
http://www.thenation.com/capitalgames/index.mhtml?pid=800

The White House’s own publication, A Decade of Defiance and Deception, makes no mention of Osama bin Laden or al Qaeda.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/decade/sect5.html

The 2002 congressional joint intelligence committee’s report on the Sept. 11 attacks revealed that the Bush administration had no evidence to support its claim that Saddam’s government was supporting al-Qaeda.
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030723-064812-9491r

According to a "top secret British document", quoted by the BBC "there is nothing but enmity between Iraq and Al Qaeda." The BBC said the leak came from intelligence officials upset that their work was being used to justify war." (quoted in Daily News, New York, 6 February 2003).
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO303D.html

Iraq-al Qaeda links weak, say former Bush officials

Three former Bush administration officials who worked on intelligence and national security issues have told National Journal that the prewar evidence tying al Qaeda to Iraq was tenuous, exaggerated, and often at odds with the conclusions of key intelligence agencies.
http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0803/080803nj2.htm

Split at C.I.A. and F.B.I. On Iraqi Ties to Al Qaeda

"…analysts at the Central Intelligence Agency have complained that senior administration officials have exaggerated the significance of some intelligence reports about Iraq, particularly about its possible links to terrorism, in order to strengthen their political argument for war, government officials said."

and…

"At the Federal Bureau of Investigation, some investigators said they were baffled by the Bush administration's insistence on a solid link between Iraq and Osama bin Laden|s network. "We've been looking at this hard for more than a year and you know what, we just don't think it's there," a government official said."
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F70D1EF83E5C0C718CDDAB0894DB404482

This is consistent with what they were saying back in October 2002.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A14056-2002Oct24

"There's absolutely no evidence that Iraq was supporting al Qaeda, ever."
-Richard Clarke, former terrorism chief under bush.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/19/60minutes/main607356.shtml

Iraq-al Qaeda ties have not been found

Bush administration hyped sketchy and false evidence to push for war
The Bush administration’s claim that Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein had ties to al Qaeda — one of the administration’s central arguments for a pre-emptive war — appears to have been based on even less solid intelligence than the administration’s claims that Iraq had hidden stocks of chemical and biological weapons.

Nearly a year after U.S. and British troops invaded Iraq, no evidence has turned up to verify allegations of Saddam’s links with al Qaeda, and several key parts of the administration’s case have either proved false or seem increasingly doubtful.
http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/2004/03/04/news/nation/8101079.htm

Iraq and al Qaeda: What Evidence?
http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=23816

bush's own hand-picked Republican weapons hunter ISG, Dr. David Kay;

David Kay was on the ground for months investigating the activities of Hussein's regime. He concluded "But we simply did not find any evidence of extensive links with Al Qaeda, or for that matter any real links at all."

He called a speech where Cheney made the claim there was a link, as being "evidence free."
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2004/06/16/bush_backs_cheney_on_assertion_linking_hussein_al_qaeda

Israeli intelligence (the Moussad)

“According to Israeli intelligence, Palestinians are still not connected to the global terror network, and neither is Iraq.”
http://www.haaretz.com /

bush's second and final hand-picked Republican weapons hunter ISG, Dr. Charles Dueffler;

Report: No WMD stockpiles in Iraq, no capability since 1991, no evidence of ties to al Qaeda, no serious threat;
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/10/06/1096949583023.html?from=storylhs

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/report/2004/isg-final-report/

OFFICIAL VERDICT: WHITE HOUSE MISLED WORLD OVER SADDAM-AL QAEDA TIES
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0617-03.htm

No evidence of Iraq-Al Qaeda ties: 9/11 commission
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/06/cheney.911

"CIA Review Finds No Evidence Saddam Had Ties to Islamic Terrorists"
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1005-01.htm

[lebkuchen]

19. Thanks for the excellent summary, Lynn

I used one of these quotes in a letter recently. It will be useful to have the rest close at hand.

[hezekkia]

21. just goes to show right-wingers are certifiably stupid!

:eyes:

[hezekkia]

22. bringing them home would likely mean taking them to Iran.

it's a no-win situation.

:nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke:

[VegasWolf]

3. Good, raise expectations. let awol deal with the reality.

The Avenging Bombardier

[struggle4progress]

15. Yep. "Our work is done. Bring em home." Push it in public.

[LynnTheDem]

5. "most Americans" are gonna be shit outta luck. Think GENERATIONS,

baby! Think DECADES.

[yinkaafrica]

7. they are getting what they voted for

[ckramer]

9. Exactly.

[NYC]

14. Yes, they are.

[leftchick]

27. The bush cabal has "Gand Plans" for Iraq...

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/outrage?bid=13&pid=2132

<snip>
While the exact figure may change, suspicions of undisclosed US imperial plans--exemplified by permanent military bases--rightfully linger. Before the war, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz suggested moving US troops stationed in Saudi Arabia into Iraq. In October, a survey by the University of Maryland's Program on International Policy Attitudes found that two-thirds of respondents disapproved of a permanent military presence, even though more than half thought the US would build the bases anyway.

Now comes a report in the New York Sun by Eli Lake revealing that the Pentagon is building a permanent military communications system in Iraq, a necessary foundation for any lasting troop presence. The new network will comprise twelve communications towers throughout Iraq, linking Camp Victory in Baghdad to other existing (and future) bases across the country, eventually connecting with US bases in Qatar, the United Arab Emirates and Afghanistan.

"People need to get realistic and think in terms of our presence being in Iraq for a generation or until democratic stability in the region is reached," Dewey Clarridge, the CIA's former chief of Arab operations (and Iran-contra point man), told the Sun.

The fabled "exit strategy" may be not to exit. Thomas Donnelly, a defense specialist at the American Enterprise Institute, said the new communication system resembles those built in West Germany and the Balkans, places where American troops remain today. "The operational advantages of US bases in Iraq should be obvious for other power-projection missions in the region," Donnelly wrote in an AEI policy paper.

Next time the Bush Administration hints at withdrawing troops, keep these grand plans in mind.

[raysr]

10. From the atrocities

we've seen, maybe they should stay where they are until they can get some mental help.

[LinuxInsurgent]

11. Most Americans...

are in for a rude awakening....now is when the fun begins.

This is the time when the ultimate betrayal and revelation of how bad the president they trusted is...when America gets in trouble again in some other foreign land...and the needs of that conflict are in contrast with the desire of Americans of having their soldiers back home..that's when the real fireworks are gonna start.

The American people has tired of their bloodlust...the insurgency was too much for them...they've had enough.

But...sadly...those in power are not in it out of a post-911 bloodlust for revenge...they had preconceived imperial plans..and they are not gonna stop because the American people don't like it.

So...welcome to Bush's 2nd term...and welcome to reaping what you sow, America. This war's not over yet...

[kohodog]

12. hahahahaha... maybe they should have thought twice and

been part of the antiwar message. We'll be there till the cows come home.

[flaminbats]

13. voters don't need information to oppose the Iraqi war..

interesting that many who fault the Iraqis for 9/11 want our troops out of Iraq in the next year. If every respondent knew Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and lacked the capability to produce weapons of mass destruction, none would support this war.

Ultimately Republicans carry the burden of winning support for the war. Secrecy and backroom deals will not reduce the causalities of war. Fear of terrorism does not win approval for an aimless quagmire. If Democrats fail to win back the House and Senate in 2006, we cannot blame this defeat on Karl Rove.

[OneBlueSky]

16. if Bush has his way, American troops aren't coming home this year . . .

or next year, or the year after, or any year . . . the plan is for the US to establish a base of operations in the region in Iraq . . . that's why we're building permanent military bases and a huge embassy . . . there may eventually be a force reduction, but the plan is for us to stay there indefinitely . . . unless, of course, a real Iraqi government actually emerges and throws our asses out . . .

[ausiedownunderground]

17. What Democrats can do - Don't let your children "ENLIST"!!!!!!!!

If you Democrats want to "Fuck up" "The Bush Gang" and also recieve "warm" praise from the "Rest of the World" for your extremely courageous actions is - "Encourage your Sons and Daughters not to sign up for military service"!! Its that easy!!! The US is different. The US "feels" like the "cop" of the world, so it must be "fighting" everywhere. It really doesn't need to do this. Most of the time its, sometimes honourable, actions just lead to more "aggression" against it from the "Rest of the World"! "The Bush Gang" has only pressed the right buttons in the US public, which outside of many "Forums" is so totally unaware of how the "Rest of the World" functions, for what is more and more obviously becoming a "GRAB" to enrich themselves.
People on this Forum need to to hear the "Rest of the Worlds" plea and absolutely "discourage" their children from joining "The Bush Gang's" War Machine!! Because it may come to the time that my own children will be required to "kill" your children. And we don't want that!!! This is a very important forum!

[T Bone]

20. Here is some of what we are up against though, ADU

I have not seen it, but I have been told by two other people, there is actually a tv commercial running for the armed services here that has this scenario:

Mother sitting at a table, son walks in and says "Mom, you know how you are always telling me I have no direction and never make a decision?" "Well, I have just changed that. I have enlisted in the Army." Commercial actually shows the mother with a slightly horrified look on her face.

This is propaganda and manipulation at conscious and unconscious levels that boggles the mind, and I am certain their is manipulation of the mind in it that many will never realize.

Strikes me first as being dismissive of women, and most blatently uses normal teenage rebellion against parents as a hook to entice enlistment. If that isn't evil, I don't know what is.

[ausiedownunderground]

23. Correct - Very smart person!

[Patchuli]

24. Wait a minute, ADU

What makes you think that our kids want to "enlist?" You gotta
be kidding! :wtf:

My kids want me to help them avoid the bloodlust of the neocons. They
aren't fooled for a second. If the rest of the world is so desperate
for this warring bs to stop, PLEASE PRESSURE THE U.S. GOVERNMENT!
Believe me, we haven't seen three great university-educated young
adults grow up to go die in a desert!

You guys break it to the Bush Admininstration...Lord knows, they don't listen to U.S.!

[ausiedownunderground]

28. Your kids are the Bush Gang's greatest targets- Be careful!

Don't "play up" your children's skills. It might feel good for "You" but in modern "Bushco" America it could be a "Killer" for you and your family. This US government, that "You" voted for, doesn't care about how "Smart" your children are if they are "really" smart. The "Really" smart might be "Medical". Thats all they need to know! Expect a "Call" soon! Smart means - Quicker into Iraq or Iran if your lucky!!! Do not "Bragg" about how smart your children are!!! Please don't push your "children" now!!! Its important!!!

[Patchuli]

34. Wait another minute!

I didn't "vote for this US government!"

I voted Gore in 2000; I voted Kerry in 2004. I've signed petitions to
impeach Bush and I detest him and his kind!!

My kids are not going anywhere they don't want to. THAT'S A FACT.

Who knows? You may see more of U.S. down under...

[LinuxInsurgent]

30. if my son...

asked to be in the military (an unlikely prospect, since I will have him well-trained by the time he reaches 18...he'll be learned individual, with critical thinking skills), I'd tell him straight, that I would disown him.

Yes, it's harsh...but the thought that he'd lose his family and the shock value of such a declaration may keep him from making the stupid move of joining the military...and that's the best fatherly thing I could do to protect him and shield him from the inhumanity that is military life.

It's tough love...but love nonetheless...and it works...

No "I'm against it...but he's in Baghdad" talk for me...

[okoboji]

25. most americans......

don't even have the knowledge that there are 14 permenant bases being built in Iraq and that "bringing home the troops" is the last thing this corrupt bunch intends.

reminds me of an old saying my mom would tell me at times when I would "want" something that was near impossible to get....

"You can want in one hand and shit in the other"

[Disturbed]

26. My Dad used to say:

"Wish in one hand and shit in the other. See which one piles up the highest."

Most Dems are in favor of the U.S. troops staying in Iraq and will makle the Middle Class and Working Poor pay another $100 Billion for that. Have the troops pulled out of Japan, Germany, Italy and other countries of WW2 yet?

[4dsc]

29. Iraq will be 2008 election issue

inasmuch as it seem lightyears away, Iraq will be an issue in the 2008 presidential elections!!

[No Exit]

32. That's discouraging.

It was an issue in the 2004 election, and look at the way the STUPID American people (present company excluded) reacted--they re-elected the demented, craven, criminal war-monger. (Of course, they had a little help in places like Ohio and Florida.)

[No Exit]

31. The only way I DON'T want the troops out of Iraq is

if they're just taking them out of there to send them to some other shithole like Iran or North Korea or... Syria.

I wanted them home last year--and the year before.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Karenina]

35. That's very ____ of them.

'Specially considering the U.S. MIC is doing nothing more or less than committing GENOCIDE in Iraq. The depleted uranium used, a GIFT (in D'englisch vernacular) that keeps on giving, affects every sentient being who has the misfortune of being there in these times. :cry:

[Misunderestimator]

36. Well put.

unfortunately

[kayell]

37. Most Americans should've thought of that before they cheerleaded the next

replay of Viet Nam in the desert.

Too little, too fucking late. Kinda like our amazing media.