Native American College Shuts Down

[Rose Siding]

DAVIS, Calif. — The state's only college run for and by Native Americans has been forced to close after it lost its accreditation and $1 million in federal funding less than a month into this spring's semester.

Officials at D-Q University shut down the community college, laid off more than two dozen faculty members and staff and sent 200 students home. And while a defiant group of students refused to leave, the beleaguered board of trustees split into two rival factions — with one firing the school's president.
...
The school's accreditation was revoked by the Accrediting Commission for Community and Junior Colleges, Western Assn. of Schools and Colleges because D-Q officials failed to correct six problems.

According to the commission, D-Q's staff lacked sufficient experience, its board of trustees was too small and lacked training, and the school failed to use "established college processes" for selection of courses and programs.

The commission also expressed deep concerns about D-Q's financial condition, including its handling of student financial aid packages and an "impending financial collapse."

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-tribalu20feb20,0,377095.story?coll=la-home-local

[LinuxInsurgent]

1. backlash against ethnic studies begin...

all hail the "Angry White Males".

[The Backlash Cometh]

2. Do parochial schools go through the same accreditation process?

Now that they receive federal money, I think we should be told.

[The Zanti Regent]

Of course not!

After all, Christian and Parochial schools get to hide behind the swastika, er, cross!

[Jonathan_Hoag]

3. Race-based schools are a bad idea anyway ...

especially when they receive federal and other public funding. And why is noone mentioning how important "diversity" on campus is when the talk is about 100% Indian or Black universities?

And at the very least they should be held to same academic standards as other schools. So I do not see what kind of "backlash" that is, except backlash agaionst poorly run schools which is completely appropriate.

[confludemocrat]

4. That is dismissive of hope.

You couldn't know anything about being a minority student and the meaning of getting your start with higher education at such a place as DQU or within minority programs at community colleges and 4-year institutions if you make such statements. What I would hope as a response from DUers would be some expression of concerned solidarity with DQU and its struggles. Your comment is more "race-based" and seems symptomatic of a dismissive attitude of minority concerns than any ills caused by the race-based nature of DQU that you impute to it.

[Jonathan_Hoag]

12. I am not dismissing of "hope"

And yes, I am a minority member. Just not one of the highly visible minorities that left loves to cuddle.

Teh point is, how does segregating minority studens help their educational experiece? Is diversity now harmful to them while being beneficial to white students? I do not buy that.

Do you have any evidence that a mainstream college would not be disaccredited if they had the same problems? If anything I think an Indian college is being treated with kid's gloves as to appear PC.

[LinuxInsurgent]

6. are you really gonna cry

about the few dozen "ethnic" schools...geesh

Go the rest of the hundred white schools and let us people of color have SOMETHING!

[Jonathan_Hoag]

9. There are no "white" schools ...

At least not after the desegregation. And segregation advocated by so-called "people of color" is as bad as segregation advocated by white people.

[LinuxInsurgent]

11. don't get technical...

white schools are every school where 80% of the population is white....schools were the budgetary priorities are not to fields of studies that may interest ethnic groups in this country (such as the study of their literature, languages, and cultures). If you would work in an ethnic studies department, like I did, you'd know how crappy the funding is for their endeavors.

When I see an "ethnic school" lose their influence, it is just further evidence that this society will not allow a few outlets for ethnic studies to prosper.

White people segregation is imposed segregation
People of Color segregation is "voluntary seperation".

You'll understand if some of us don't wish to "get along"...especially in these times where politics are ever-more divided on class and race, with poor whites and minorities on one side, and middle class and upper class WHITES on the other. Although I got many white friends, I'd prefer to have the choice to not have to hang around with people who give me fake smiles during the day...and then go vote Republican at night.

[Jonathan_Hoag]

16. White people segregation is voluntary separation

In that white people volunteer to separate themselves from the minorities. How is that racist while 'minorities' doing that is ok and even encourged?

I do not see so-called ethnic studies as that important anyway, at least not in the highly political way they are thought today. They breed mor eanimosity between groups than they further understanding of anything.

[LinuxInsurgent]

21. you ignore white privilige and power

in your formulation...if I want to go to a State school or to an Ivy League school...I've got no choice but to adhere to the standards of budgetary priority adopted by almost always white administrators...who are either unreceptive or apathetic to Ethnic Studies departments. That's the contribution of ethnic studies colleges...they allow venues for the study of subjects sidelined by the mainstream.

You reveal your bias against ethnic studies in your last statement. If Ethnic Studies churn out students that have more "animosity" against their white counterparts, it is because they are armed with the knowledge that firmly white middle/upper-class run governments in the United States impose social institutions and forms of rule that are oppressive to all the other groups in the nation...and beyond the borders, these same governments interfere in brutal, dehumanizing ways in the lives of Third World peoples. People armed with that knowledge will be resentful and have "animosity" against established and unacknowledged white privilige...the type you've shown on this thread.

Count me in as part of those students of ethnic studies that are filled with "animosity" against white privilige. I am tired of this country getting a pass on murder, violations of rights, and hypocrisy to the standards of freedom and justice that they preach....while they murder wantonly in the rest of the world.

As a person of color...a member of the brown and black majorities of the world...i resent and protest this condition...and its manifestations (the closing of ethnic studies colleges).

Instead of stirring up animosity on this forum thread...look at the comments of the rest of the people here..it's obvious this school was not bad...and that the reason it was closed was because of its membership, its administration, and its focus (namely Native Americans studying under Native Americans focused on Native American issues).

THAT was their GREAT CRIME.

[Blue to the bone]

24. I do have to ask Linux.....

....is it not also possible that the school in question is run by a group incompetents...who in the long run would end up doing only more harm than good to the minority students they're supposed to be educating?

How long does one pump federal funding into an institution that is failing in its mission?

I don't know these things to be the case in this instance, but if they are, when does one finally pull the plug, if ever?

[LinuxInsurgent]

30. it seems to me

from the other posts...that this school was not failing...and I've been a veteran of "ethnic" inter-school battles to know how the white groups act against people of color. I've known enough "minorities are trying to dilute the Canon" groups to spot a race issue.

[hezekkia]

41. wait a minute

>>Instead of stirring up animosity on this forum thread...look at the comments of the rest of the people here..it's obvious this school was not bad...and that the reason it was closed was because of its membership, its administration, and its focus (namely Native Americans studying under Native Americans focused on Native American issues).


It's not obvious to me that the school wasn't bad. I see a bunch of people making a lot of assumptions, and talking out of their asses. that's all I see-- no hard evidence. Doesn't look like the facts have been laid out, to me. I'd prefer to see some facts and figures before making MY judgment.

:think:

[hezekkia]

43. also...

white people didn't shut the school down. The SCHOOL decided to shut itself down. If a $1 million grant can make or break the school, I'm skeptical about how long it would have lasted anyway. In an era where schools are charging $40,000/year AND living off billion dollar endowments, I'm also skeptical of what kind of education was going on there if it was relying on just $1 million. Again, I don't know all the facts, but these are just thoughts that stuck out to me.

It's always sad when schools shut down, especially in communities like this one; it may not be appropriate to start bandying the torches, though.

[LinuxInsurgent]

52. ok...

agreed...let's wait until more facts common.

[LinuxInsurgent]

51. i'd encourage you to find out...

i've got more important things than research some closed Native American school...but...I don't celebrate the closing of an academic venue of a people who are woefully underrepresented in social debates.

We steal their land...call it Manifest Destiny...I guess closing schools devoted to their issues is a continuation of that "Manifest Destiny" eh?

Why can't white people let these Native Americans have a single school? Is that too hard to do?

[hezekkia]

56. i haven't done much research on this, myself, but...

just as a point of fact-- there are still other native colleges around the US-- not that that does anything for Native Americans in the Davis, CA area.

see http://dir.yahoo.com/education/higher_education/colleges_and_universities/united_states/american_indian_tribal_colleges

I'm half Native myself, although I'm also 1/2 white (and I've never lived on the rez, myself). I imagine that affects how I see these issues. Part of me wants to screw the Man for years of genocide, removal, etc. But then, that creates a bit of dissonance since I'm also white, my father being a WASP--and a very good man at that.

[LinuxInsurgent]

59. well...

there's nothing wrong with researching both of your cultures and treasuring both...the problem is when certain groups in the country try to stifle the developments of ethnic groups in the nation and brand them as "identity politics" and work hard to dismantle them.

If right-wingers had their way...there wouldn't be any schools that taught the real history of people's in the United States, and all blacks, latinos, and Indians would worship dead white males, and speak English, and listen to classical music from Europe, and pray to a vengative, bloodlusting Christian God.

[Desertrose]

5. very sorry to hear this.....

I think anyone who desires continuing education should be encouraged...to shut down an entire college because of these things seems a bit harsh, especially in the middle of the term!

Bet if it was just a regular white folks college they wouldn't have done it...at least would have done it differently....but this just continues the way Native Americans have been treated since the very beginning. Wouldn't you think after 400+ years we would have learned something???

And really...why must all colleges & schools teach by the same methods when people don't all learn in the same way???

what a damn shame......

[Igel]

7. A lot of colleges function perfectly fine without accreditation.

I know graduates from non-accredited colleges, and most of the time employers haven't cared about the accreditation status of where they got their sheepskin.

On the other hand, when one went to apply to a graduate program, she ran into a brick wall. The credits didn't transfer, because the *independent* non-governmental accrediting organization didn't vouch for the quality of her coursework. She had to marshall her notes and handouts from the course to prove that her courses, at least, met the new institution's standards.

One course spectacularly failed to pass the requirements. It was a general history course. Taught 100% from the Bible and how the professor interpreted the Bible. She finally got it accepted as a Bible history class.

[rayofreason]

15. Prestigeous non-accredited institutions...

...with a website and degrees for "life experience" - give me a break!

The only people who get hurt by failure to maintain academic standards is the students. Staff, instructors, administrators all get paid, but the currency of value for students - real learning that they can use - is useless Monopoly Money.

[Igel]

33. I agree. Accreditation maintains standards for the benefit

of the students. That's what I said below.

On the other hand, a lot of non-web based courses have indeed operated their physical campuses with dormitories and all for decades. The students or their parents have paid their tuition, and have graduated happy as little clams, or the children of happy clams. (As I said below, most of the ones I know of were supported by a church of some sort.)

[happynewyear]

8. this is a shame imo

How many colleges teach the subject of Native American Studies? Answer: NOT VERY MANY!

How many colleges offer degree programs in Native American Studies?

Answer: I know of two at the moment.

This is a disgrace as Native Americans are an essential and vital part of our American history. To ignore it just increases the ongoing genocide towards Native peoples.

:(

:kick:

[GoldenOldie]

10. Loses "Federal Funding"???????

How can you lose something that is owed to you??

Indians still unable to collect monies owed them from the late 1800's on thier lease agreements with the US. Why is this problem not being resolved by the tribes themselves?

[happynewyear]

13. I am very familiar with this particular school

It always was controversial, mostly because of the fact that Indians attended it for the most part.

It was however a good school I had heard.

and ... the genocide continues. People say "Genocide!?" Yes, this is genocide. We are now killing educational systems for we the Indian people of the United States as few as they might be.

As for all of the "treaties", I'm sure * would love to cancel everyone of them, grab the land and drill for any oil that might be left. This could be done with all reservations in America if you've studied the treaty laws. There is a BIG loophole in all of them. The reservation lands can be "repossessed" so to speak in the event of an "emergency".

Why is this problem not being resolved by the tribes themselves you ask? Does the word poverty mean anything? Many of these tribes in California are not Federally recognized (in fact most of them). Therefore, being they aren't recognized they don't qualify for any help whatsoever. :grr:


:dem: :kick:

[ismnotwasm]

17. Absolutely correct

Many of the Indian nations reservations are third world countries. Literally. This current administration could care less about Indian sovergnty or tribal rights. One of the first things bush did when he was selected in 2000 was take away recognition of Indian bands that had been fighting for years to get status as a people. One of these bands was the Duwamish, who, if I remember correctly was one of the largest bands in the Northwest and the first to greet white folks landing at Alki point. Small pox took their numbers down, among other things. The loss that Indians have suffered has is beyond belief. In fact, the story is so ugly, I believe many people have a hard time looking at it. They would rather look at the physiological results of that loss--say alcoholism, and wonder why "those" people can't help themselves. The loss of a college is a tragedy.

[happynewyear]

19. yes there were over 180 tribes in California

at least ....

The # recognized is about 10 or so maybe.

[Blue to the bone]

22. Why can't the "tribes" kick in some of that........

......gambling money to help the university?

Since they first figured out that "tribes" could open casinos on their lands, they've sprung up like mushrooms. To me, if they spent half as much time helping their own as they do trying to figure out how to slice into that lucrative market, their peoples would be far better off.

I don't agree with arbitrarily shutting down any university but also suspect there's a lot more here than meets the eye. JMHO.

[happynewyear]

26. if you have read my other posts

you might realize that not all Indian tribes are Federally recognized (which means they technically do not exist and are not eligible for any assistance whatsoever). Many Indian people are of this ilk like it or not. If you are not from a Federally recognized tribe you have nothing, zip, zero; possibly not even your own "identity" so to speak. Many say they are "white" just to please the masses.

Casino!? Where? Tribes that are not Federally recognized do not have any land much less casinos being they are not recognized. Many of the students at this school were from such backgrounds and I'm sorry, funds are scarce. Few Indian people graduate from high school much less college.

:kick:

[Blue to the bone]

28. Okay, you're right. Please excuse my ignorant post. n/t

[happynewyear]

31. well perhaps it is ignorant on some level but ...

However, I'd suggest that 99.9% of Americans know nothing about the history and plight of Native Americans, so you aren't alone. I have advanced education in this area of study which is indeed rare. And, I paid for all of it myself btw - no one else did and my family was in no real position to help given my background. As a side note I will also state that Ward Churchill was required reading while I was engaged in this field of study as a graduate student, and also btw, Ward Churchill is indeed Indian.

If someone wants a quick education on Indians in America, I'd suggest visiting the Wind River reservation in Wyoming (Federally recognized too - Arapaho), the Fort Hall reservation in Idaho (Federally recognized tribe as well) and you will see the reality. I don't know if they have casinos on these reservations now, but when I was there about 10 years ago it was the worst poverty I'd ever seen in my entire life and I truly mean that and I have lived in big cities, rural areas, etc. Where I now live, some Indian people live in poverty beyond anyone's imagination - out in the woods in tents for god's sake!

That is why I support this school. Many Indian people just don't have the opportunities that the white man and even other minorities have. If they can manage to get admitted to such a school, more power to them.

So to me, any school for Indian people that encourages Indian people to rise above their past and the poverty that goes with it is to me affirmation of their existence and their identity. They just might have a chance to crack out of this hell of poverty, alcoholism, etc. which seems to follow them no matter where they end up.

Maybe this school was not accredited. However, I know of some law schools that aren't accredited either. To me, any school that can help to educate Indian people is better than no school at all.

You aren't ignorant, you just don't know. That is because society and our government doesn't want you to know. It is truly America's greatest shame, the genocide of our native peoples.

Don't feel alone. I grew up believing that all Indians lived in the missions and that they did nothing but eat acorns all day. That was the education I received. :(

[Blue to the bone]

35. I've actually visited many Indian reservations......

.....in my travels (especially in the SW US) and agree with your assessment of the levels of poverty on most of them. Appalling.

I've also studied extensively the different tribes that existed in this country at the time the first European explorers arrived. There can be no argument that their treatment by the 'white' man was shameful, even genocidal.

On the topic at hand though, it appears that the real trouble began when the administrators embraced the program for Spanish speakers and were thereby met with a surge in enrollment from Latinos. This then caused the Native American ratio of students to fall below 51% and resulted in the loss of $350,000 annually from the Bureau of Indian Affairs.....as per the law.

While laudable, perhaps the administrators would have better served the school and Native Americans had they focused on recruiting more students from Indian Reservations in surrounding states.

[happynewyear]

36. I tend to agree with you

The sad fact is that it was the Federal policy of our government known as "extermination" at one time. It was later, after the job was fairly complete changed to one of "assimilation" leading many Indian people to identify themselves as "white". For this reason many people that know or suspect they are Indian cannot identify themselves as such thus applying at this particular school would be rather pointless. How Latinos fit exactly baffles me admittedly other than they might "look" Indian perhaps. It makes me wonder why they would admit over the limit and knock themselves out of funding knowing about the BIA rules. I was not aware of this piece of information. When I first knew/heard of the school it was all Indian students and was in its infancy.

It is definitely something that few know in America that there was a Federal policy of extermination of the Indian people. Now it is a policy of self-determination supposedly. At times I wonder how well the casino ventures actually fit this new policy. I see some Indian people that do get money from the casinos, but many are exempt due to blood quantum factors or the inability to be able to prove that they are in fact "Indian" being they were "assimilated".

This is a very complicated field of study. No one particularly cares for it being the bottom line is genocide, and as you must have noted in your travels and seeing the horrific poverty and the conditions. Therefore, I assert that this "policy" of "extermination" is still very much alive in America in the year 2005 I am very sorry to have to say.

It is likely that few Indian students would qualify to attend this school being most don't even make it out of high school and/or they cannot identify as being "Indian" perhaps due to the policies I describe above. These are sad facts and an revealing of a very ugly history we have right here in America and this cannot be denied as it is very well documented historically if one cares to research this issue.

Have you read Ward Churchill's books, especially the one on the topic of genocide by chance (written in the early 1990s)? I have and it is a real eye-opener and Ward Churchill is nothing new to any of us familiar with Native American studies.

:kick:

[Blue to the bone]

40. I don't know, but I suspect that the Latino issue......

.....was blended into this story from the very beginning.

If you'll note in the LA Times story, it mentions that the school was formed by a group of Native American and "Chicano" activists in about 1970. These two groups probably found some strength in combining their forces even though their plight at the hands of the white man does not necessarily overlap, at least not in my view.

I don't recall all the details of the claims of some Chicano activists (I'm sure someone here can help fill in the blanks) but from what I do remember, some of them have called for the formation of some sort of Trans-Mexican independent state/country in the SW US. I forget what they wanted to call it, but it seems that it was Aztec-related.

Their basic claim I believe, was that these lands were actually part of Mexico or occupied by Chicano-related peoples and therefore were illegally taken by the US. I may be all wet in my recollection, but I think that's how it goes.

Anyway, I don't hold their claims to the same level of respect that I hold the claims of many Native American tribes who signed, in good faith, treaties that delineated the boundaries of their nations, only to later have them broken by white men when it suited their needs.

I've not read any of Churchill's books, but am interested, especially with the recent publicity about him. Most of the books on Indian cultural that I've added to my library have been more based on raw statistics, history etc, but don't seem to deal too much with political issues.

[LinuxInsurgent]

42. why wouldn't you hold their claims to the same level?

The United States initiated provocatory border raids on Mexican outposts, which led to Santa Annas storming of the Alamo, which then led to the Mexican War, and the stealing of half of Mexico's territory. The only reason the imperialist congressmen didn't go all the way to Mexico City (they could have, the Mexican Army was broken) was becuase they were worried that a total conquest of Mexico would involve the United States in having to take care of a sizeable "brown" population. Thus racism prevented the U.S. from going all the way. This is all historically verifiable, if you wish to read on it.

Chicano activists have equal claim to their lands as the Native Americans who had their lands stolen by the same government that stole the land from the Mexicans, from the Hawaiins (after overthrowing the sovereign queen with our Marines), as well as the people of Guam, and Puerto Rico, that remain colonies of the United States.

[Blue to the bone]

45. I've not disputed anything related to the history of our conflicts....

....with Mexico.

Since you're so well-versed in these issues, I do wish you'd lay out some of the details of the claims that these Chicano activists (were they a tribe?)are making. Specifically, I'd like you to refresh my memory about the specific group that has operated in S. California.

I can't even recall what they called themselves, though I do remember my reaction to reading about them 20 years ago was that they were full of shit and had too much time on their hands. They seemed to be trolling for dollars and attention.

I've seen nothing to date to change my opinion. However, I am an old dog and can be taught new tricks. I just need some facts.

In summation, for me, to compare some of their claims to those of legitimate Native Americans is wrong. Again, JMHO.

[Blue to the bone]

48. Here's what bothers me about some of the 'Chicano' movement..

....<<“Latinos” indicates Central and South Americans; the word “Hispanic” is generic. Radical leftists of the 1960s gave “Chicano” a new defiant meaning and proclaimed Mexican-Americans heirs to Aztlan. the mythical homeland of the Aztec people.>>

I recall seeing their idea of where this 'mythical homeland' of Aztlan should be located. I suspect rightful, law-abiding land owners on both sides of the border would have a problem with it.

In my opinion, 'mythical homelands' and the valid grievances of Native Americans who had their lands stolen from them by Europeans should not even be mentioned in the same sentence....even though I just did.

http://www.thesocialcontract.com/cgi-bin/showarticle.pl?articleID=762&terms=Population%20growth

[LinuxInsurgent]

50. again,

I don't know the details of this...it sounds very iffy, as you put it...as credible as the claims of the Sendero Luminosa Peruvian group to return to a "indigineous civilization" in Peru. So...I'd have to peruse their claims and find out if their claims of an "Aztlan" are valid. I'd doubt that the Mexican people would be receptive to an idea of a return to "Aztlan".

However, this is not what passes as the majority of "Chicano" claims...most of the groups simply make a historical note that the U.S. stole half of Mexico from them..and continue to remind Americans of it...who wish that everyone would just forget it.

I wouldn't want to slander the entire Chicano movement because of the claims of one group. The basic message is the claim to the land by Mexicans...and they are right in those claims.

[Blue to the bone]

53. I also don't condone violence though I know it meets with the....

....approval of some here. Many of these 'activists' seem to encourage it as a means of keeping 'the youth' of their movement motivated and excited. It's good to have an ENEMY....where have we heard that?

And I wasn't trying to slander anyone. I guess I just believe in the rule of law and when I see groups promoting violence as a means to their end, I just feel that they're no better than the thugs we now have in Washington who we all despise.

It's why I've said that Chavez' attempted-coup was as wrong as the one that tried to topple him. DO IT AT THE BALLOT BOX!!! If the population of 'brown' people is growning as fast as we believe it is in the US, then it's only a matter of time until their power will be felt....legally.

And actually, it's already being felt.

[LinuxInsurgent]

57. i'm not so sure...

remember apartheid South Africa and Israel's current "demographic" problem?

I'd venture that the white right-wing in this country would rather devise institutions of domination to escape the fate of the brown people's ballot box power...

Besides, black people and brown people in this country are too poor to go vote...they got jobs they have to keep..and given that we have horrible voting rules in this country (no election holiday, hard registration rules, etc.), the likelihood of the brown and black people of this country deciding elections is very unlikely.

[Blue to the bone]

61. That I don't buy that.....

....black people and brown people can, and in some cases do, decide the outcome of elections in this country. I suspect that most close elections in most states are decided my 'minority' votes.

Yes, the registration rules in this country can be an impediment to some people signing up, but they're not stupid despite what the right would like us to believe. They just need to be convinced that their participation is worth the effort...that they really do have a stake in their future and can voice it by voting.

If millions of dirt-poor Venezuelans, most without a personal means of transportation or the money to pay for public transport, can figure out how to register to vote and then make it to the polls on election day, then most Americans can as well.

I do agree that we should have a national holiday on voting day (it's often on a Sunday in many other countries) in order to give those who work a chance to vote, but even that can be overcome. Polls are often open 14 hours or more and one can vote early in most states.

Too poor to vote just doesn't wash with me.

[LinuxInsurgent]

49. i don't know the details

of the specific Chicano activist group...so I couldn't respond to the claims of this specific group. However, I do believe that Chicanos, in general, who claim that their land was stolen by the United States, are correct in their claims. Their claims are as legitimate as Native Americans claiming their stolen lands from the United States, and the Palestinians claiming the land stolen after the 1967 war with Israel. Those who steal (prohibited by the Ten Commandments) should return what they stole.

Will it happen...very unlikely. But the moral compass is on the side of those that make the claims, and not on the side of those who stole those lands.

[Blue to the bone]

54. Which does beg the question........

...did Native American tribes ever steal land from one another? If so, how do we sort out that mess?

[LinuxInsurgent]

58. do it equitably...

i'm sure the modern descedants can come to an egalitarian solution.

[Blue to the bone]

60. As always, you're the voice of reason yet again....n/t

[LinuxInsurgent]

62. heheh...

and what's with the following me around on the DU threads? This is like the 3rd thread you reply to me directly on. :)

[Blue to the bone]

63. Not actually following you around, I've posted to many others...........

..........however, when I do comment or question something you've posted, you take the time to lay out your position in great detail. And even though we may disagree on something, you don't insult me.

I like that.

Like I've said before, I'm an old dog but I can learn new tricks and am learning every day....and you're a pretty good teacher.

[LinuxInsurgent]

64. heheh...well...thank you..

i appreciate the praise...and it's good to have the dicussion with you...

read on this

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,12321933-401,00.html

Looks like the U.S. is trying to kill Chavez...can't say I blame Chavez for having some of that "negative" rhetoric about Bush and the U.S....they are trying to kill him, after all.

[Blue to the bone]

66. Proof enough for me! n/t

[LinuxInsurgent]

68. oh come on now...

you think Bush is not planning to kill Chavez? The same government that tried to put poison in Castro's cigars, and food?

Nah...could never happen...you are too trusting of the U.S. government...and you haven't read what happened to other Chavez-like Latin American leaders.

Ask Allende (Chile), Arbenz (Guatemala), Sandinistas (Nicaragua), Bosch (Dominican Republic), Juan Mari bras (Puerto Rico), and other Latin American leaders what they would make of the Chavez comment.

[Blue to the bone]

72. I suspect that if the U.S. really wanted Chavez dead........

......he'd have been dead long ago.

Didn't the CIA have the perfect opportunity to relieve him of his life when they overthrew him? No one ever comments on how it happened to transpire that the CIA had him in their hands but let him regain control of the country. Odd, isn't it?

Just because he says it's so, doesn't make it so, notwithstanding what other administrations have done in the past.

[LinuxInsurgent]

74. oh...they want him dead..

but doing it during a coup attempt is not the smartest time to do it.

[Blue to the bone]

75. So much for that voice of reason. n/t

[hezekkia]

67. dude, Indians are not just selfish, money-grubbing bastards.

casinos are one way to keep food on the table and make a living in rural, impoverished tribal communities. Its not their fault they've been pushed into complete isolation.

[Blue to the bone]

73. Where did I say all Indians were selfish, money-grubbing bastards?

But have you read any of the stories about the great pains some of these 'tribes' go to get organized/recognized as a nation? Interestingly some are 'tribes' that didn't seem to even exist before the casino laws were passed.

I seem to recall reading about one 'tribe' where the entire 'reservation' was occupied by...................you guessed it.......a casino.

[laylah]

65. Is Colorado State U

in Ft. Collins, one of your two?

I learned about NA history at my mother's knee, a genteel English woman. She could recite the names of ALL 500 plus tribes that existed at one time on this continent.

I took Native American Indian Law and Policy and a Sacred & Ceremony class while a student there in 1998-2001. They have a well advanced NA Studies department, with many able NA professors. While I graduated with my BA in SW, my daughter graduated in 2002 with her major in journalism, minor in NA studies. It is a very important piece that makes CSU the wonderful and diverse university it is.

Ignorance abounds! Learning about the Native Peoples and their history, imVho, should be REQUIRED, starting in grade school. The travesty of their culture must never be forgotten. We raped, pillaged and burnt their society, stole their children, fed them alcohol in order to take advantage of them, demanded assimilation, denied them their languages and ceremony, stole their lands, STILL rob them blind via the trust funds and the BIA, broke ALL of the hundreds of treaties made with them, and have left them in squalor. But HEY, we be the "white boys" and as another poster stated, Manifest Destiny and all that crap :mad:

Jenn

[Igel]

14. They got accreditation once, and survived for 6 years without

it. They, and other colleges, have survived fine without accreditation--as long as they have enough money. It was probably irresponsible to shut down immediately, unless they simply had no funds in the bank. (And *that* is irresponsible.) The accounting irregularities would make it very, very hard to get outside support: federal funding is iffy, and corporations and most philanthropists are unlikely to support an organization without adquate fiscal controls.

Two full-time faculty with the number about to drop to one ... It's possible to get a fine education without full time faculty. But it's hard to maintain standards. And standards is the crux of the matter, not the ethnicity of the students, or usually even how the beans were counted.

The accreditation procedures are usually designed to protect faculty, and, more importantly, the students. Coursework from accredited colleges can usually be transferred anywhere in the country. But " ... the team grave concerns about the teaching and learning process in general and does not feel the college meets the eligibility requirements." They were told, in effect, that the coursework shouldn't be transferrable.

Ambassador College students that I knew didn't care that their school, for decades, wasn't accredited. Most didn't go on to other schools; employers outside of LA didn't have a clue, by and large, that it was a church school. Not true of D-Q, if historical trends persisted: "According to a 1996 American Indian College Fund Report, 70% of D-Q students transferred to a four-year college after earning an associate degree." It's important to make sure that D-Q students that have taken prerequisites for 4-year university courses actually have met minimum requirements. Otherwise the school is grooming them for a rude shock.

I hope they get their act together. There aren't enough ethno-botany courses around.

[Gyre]

18. DQU lost accreditation because.....

They didn't have a curriculum worth mentioning for the last 6 years. DQU had devolved to a state where it was no more than an extended baby-sitting service for adults. It was warned on numerous occasions and given the benefit of every doubt. Nothing racisct about the closure based on what I've seen.

Gyre

[candy]

20. In other word,it was a shitty school with meaningless degrees.

Should be closed! How many of these students had government loans for a degree that is worthless? They still have to pay back the loans. Sad!

[Jonathan_Hoag]

23. From the LA Times article ...

D-Q University was founded by a group of Native Americans and Chicano activists who in 1970 occupied a former Army communications center for months until the government agreed to allow the 643-acre site to be turned into a tribal college.

So they got opened through terrorism and coersion. I.e. the DQU should never have been opened in the first place and they would not have been opened if the state government had more cajones.


D-Q University's mission was to educate students from a Native American perspective, blending "the spiritual and cultural truths of the past, the realities of the present and preparation for the future."

This sounds like bullshit to me. Seems like they would tend to teach Indian myths as fact rather than science. Kinds like the Indian version of Liberty(sic) University(sic).

[Blue to the bone]

25. Ouch!

And I believe those are 'cojones'.

[Jonathan_Hoag]

27. Thanks

for catching the typo, but what was "ouch" refering to?

[Blue to the bone]

29. The reason for the ouch? For telling it like it is! n/t

[DU GrovelBot]

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34. They did not need 100% Native Am Student Body

Just 50%+ as I understand it. I am sorry they have closed. They filled a unique and important function: strengthening our learning from native ways, and strengthening first peoples self knowledge.I hope DQU re-opens.

Who wins from this, I wonder.

[happynewyear]

37. it is easy to see "who wins"

The BIA wins. They don't have to put up any more $. However, why the school itself would knowingly admit more students of an ethnicity that does not qualify them for the funds causes me to view this whole situation with a jaundiced eye. Was this perhaps intentional? If so, who is at the bottom of this?

In the end, as usual, it is the Indian students that get left out in the cold with no education to pursue, at least at this particular school.

:dem: :kick:

[MaryBear]

38. Could "Follow the money"

be applied here? If the school closes permanently, what happens to the land and buildings, and who profits?

Could a Casino go in there? Who would profit then?

BTW, without knowing for sure, I would guess that DQU chose to recognize Native Americans not on the BIA rolls and did meet that criteria in true realty but not the BIA's reality.

I would also hazard a guess that DQU didn't recognize the quickly looming peril regarding accreditation.

BIA power struggles aside, where is the benefit if any? What is behind the intra-DQU politics?

[happynewyear]

39. Former Army communications center - now surplus land????

-- D-Q University was founded by a group of Native Americans and Chicano activists who in 1970 occupied a former Army communications center for months until the government agreed to allow the 643-acre site to be turned into a tribal college. --

Seems the Army (the U.S. gov't) owned the land prior to it being acquired in 1970. So, I suspect it could revert back to the ownership of the gov't unless it is held by deed by the Native Americans and Chicanos that founded it.

I wouldn't think a casino could go into this land on any level. Who are the Native peoples of Davis, California? Not even I am certain and are there any "survivors"? If so they would need to be on the rolls as a Federally recognized tribe in order for them to acquire the land again and establish a casino on it. Where would this money come from if there are survivors found and would they even be interested in or capable of opening a casino.

Also, if it is considered "surplus" government land and they claimed it back I wonder if it could in turn be sold to the highest bidder? The value of property in this part of California is rising steadily. It used to be no one much cared to live in Davis but now, I bet the story is different being it about 1 hour east of San Francisco. In fact, many commute from further directions east and work in San Francisco today.

With 643 acres a nice housing tract could be built and homes sold for probably close to 1/2 million a piece I bet.

It seems to me, the land will go back to who owned it - the U.S. Army unless it is somehow deemed surplus government property and claimed. This process would require a lot of money, lawyers, litigation, etc. Boy something is sure strange here isn't it? :tinfoilhat:

As for your question about admitting people that could not prove they are Indian, I think the answer to this questions is no. I say this only from personal experience - not fact.

Perhaps things with this school have changed a lot since it started up. As I've stated before, I had contact with this school over 10 years ago and as with all things in life, things change. Sometimes for the better and sometimes not.

:kick:

[LinuxInsurgent]

44. those that wish that

people of color communities simply ignore their heritage and develop their own cultural forms of expression..and assimilate to the "mainstream"...which is a convenient way of expressing white, Anglo-saxon heritage masquerading as "mainstream".

Chicanos, Native Americans and others have as much right to demand their literature, culture, and language be respected, as Europeans and their "Canon". It's a culture war...between those that seek to impose Western (White) civilization and its expressions of culture, art, language, history etc. on the rest...and to force all people to adopt it and worship those standards...vs...the under-siege forces of culturally-committed activists of cultural minority groups in the U.S, who advocate that there is a world beyond our borders, that their ancestry (and linkages) to those other nations have worth, that they have literature, culture, language, and art too...and that they want an equal place on the table to display it.

Basically...we people of color don't want to be "ethnic" anymore...we are part of the mainstream...we live on this Earth, we are definitely more than the white population of the United States, and we are not satisfied with the innately racist subjugation of our cultural, linguistic, artistic, and historical forms of expression to the Anglo-saxon "mainstream" model.

The ones who win are those conservative forces who seek to "conserve" the undue dominance of anglo-saxon forms of expression as the expression of all people. The ones who delineate the struggle as one between a "mainstream" and "minorities". What gave them the power to decide WHAT is the mainstream...and what is the "minority". If we go by population, we are the majority-mainstream, and THEY are the minority...so what gives the power to frame the issue as one of mainstream vs. ethnic minorities? Racism...the system of white oppressive privilige, in which white Anglo-Saxon decide what is the mainstream, in everything from politics, economics, and ideology, to sexuality, culture, art, and language. It is racism which allows Anglo-Saxon individuals and institutions to dominate the "rules of the game"...and shape the Culture War (which they are waging...we people of color are defending ourselves out of necessity).

Last time I checked, there's 6 billion people on this Earth, 5,700,000,000 who are not Americans, and of those 200,000,000-300,000,000 americans, 20%-30% are racial minorities. That means that THAT huge majority of people of color, in the world and within the United States, is truly the "mainstream"..and we're tired of being pushed around and having our forums of expression shut off by white institutions and individuals in this country.

We are the majority...remember that "racial minorities"....WE are the majority in the world. We seek not to dominate our Anglo-Saxon brothers...but we will not allow them to decide the forums that are appropriate for the expression of our heritage, nor the appropriate ways to express our heritage.

[Blue to the bone]

46. Ahhh, it's becoming clearer to me now......

....I was wondering about your aversion to a 'white' man living in Venezuela. If I didn't know better, I'd almost say you sound...no, I won't use the word.

[LinuxInsurgent]

47. don't make the mistake of assuming...

you are assuming I am anti-white...you make a huge mistake if you do.

I am anti-domination by white individuals and institutions with selfish, pro-white privilige agendas. I am against individuals who are so full of themselves and their belief in their superiority, that they have to silence the expression of others beliefs. That is what is happening with this Native American college...and with ethnic studies departments in general.

I want to clarify that...lest your comments confuse other DU readers into thinking I am anti-white.

i admit, I'm more vocal that others are on this issue...but just because I'm an "uppity" person of color doesn't mean I'm anti-white.

[Blue to the bone]

55. Actually, I was going to say 'racist'........

..but I think you've clearly and intelligently stated your beliefs.

[LinuxInsurgent]

69. well...

at least I preempted an uninformed comment on your part.

I frankly don't worry what white people think of me...they got bigger fish to fry than whether or not I think highly or negatively of them.

[Blue to the bone]

70. And I didn't mean 'racist' in a negative sense...

....'cause it's not always negative to be a racist, at least not in my view.

[LinuxInsurgent]

71. don't I know it...

:) hehehehe......i'm such an ass.... :)