'Minutemen' to Patrol Arizona Border

[truthpusher]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=518953&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

'Minutemen' to Patrol Arizona Border
Volunteer Minutemen, Many Untrained, to Patrol Ariz. Border to Curb Illegal Immigration Crossings

By LARA JAKES
The Associated Press

Feb. 21, 2005 - Intent on securing the vulnerable Arizona border from illegal immigrant crossings, U.S. officials are bracing for what they call a potential new threat this spring: the Minutemen. Nearly 500 volunteers have already joined the Minuteman Project, anointing themselves civilian border patrol agents determined to stop the immigration flow that routinely, and easily, seeps past federal authorities.

They plan to patrol a 40-mile stretch of the southeast Arizona border throughout April when the tide of immigrants crossing the U.S.-Mexico border peaks.

"I felt the only way to get something done was to do it yourself," said Jim Gilchrist, a retired accountant and decorated Vietnam War veteran who is helping recruit Minutemen across the country.

(snip)

Officials concede the 370-mile Arizona border is the most porous stretch on the U.S.-Mexico line. Moreover, recent intelligence show that al-Qaida terrorists are likely to enter the country through the Mexico border, James Loy, the deputy secretary of the Homeland Security Department, said last week.

more:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=518953&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

[bobthedrummer]

1. Aren't John Birch Society members known as "The Minutemen"?

:shrug:

[GoldenOldie]

4. A "retired accountant," against the Mexican Drug Cartel????

Jim Gilchrist a decorated Vietnam vet, enlisting the help of others for his Militiamen. Who might these others be: The Swiftboat Liars, the chickenhawks who sit in front of a video screen - fighting battles via a hand-control while sipping a soda???

Not only are illegals entering the country but there is now and all out war between the Drug King pins to gain full control of the drugs. They are killing each other and have no hesitation with killing those that cross their paths. These Militiamen have no idea what the topography is. Much of the land is mountainous, craggy and wild where only goats, ranchers and those who are extremely desperate are capable of manipulating.

Meanwhile, the poor, crossing to feed their families, will be the losers as they attempt to cross this valley of death.

We have a National Guard in Arizona, that is supposed to be used to defend and aid our State, just as every State in the Nation. Yet, our Home Defense is being used illegally to fight foreign wars.....and Arizona being called a "Red State," does not question The Commander-in-Chief?

[DBoon]

8. I think it was a separate group

Think of the JBS with guns

I know they tried to intimidate left-wing professors as UC San Diego by shooting up their homes (Herbert Marcuse, etc.)

[Redstone]

2. We heard about these bozos a couple of weeks ago...

and beat the subject utterly to death.

Redstone

[HawkerHurricane]

3. Once again, solving the wrong problem

These groups like to make a big deal out of 'Illegal Immigrants are criminals' and promote vigilante action to 'enforce the laws'... but skip over the FACT that companies (and individuals) that HIRE 'Illegal Immigrants' are ALSO breaking the law...

Enforce the laws on hiring, and the borders won't be a problem.

(How much you want to bet these jerks buy supplies at WalMart from a cashier who's an illegal, sleep in motels where the maids are illegal, and buy food at resteraunt where the kitchen help are illegals...)

[ugarte]

5. Ironically just making more work for the Border Patrol

who will have to keep an eye on these bozos.

[dxdem]

6. I'm pretty sure

there will be some kind of injunction regarding this. One would think anyway...

[DemoTex]

7. They better hope they don't cross the Mexican Zeta's.

The Zeta's will mop the desert with their little vigilante asses.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1251885

[DBoon]

10. "American vigilantes brutally murdered by Mexican Drug Lords"

That will be next week's Late Breaking News

[Streetdoc270]

9. Witness the re-emergence of white supremacy groups

The Feds need to curb this 'vigilantism' quick. There is a difference between your neighborhood watch and a bunch of armed rednecks trying to keep the brown skinned out of 'their' country

[DBoon]

11. I'm sure our current Federal leadship gives them a wink and a nod

Nothing will be done to curb right wing violence.

Hundreds of lives were lost in the Oklahoma City bombing and all they did was whitewash the militias tied to those criminals.

[drummer55]

12. any publicity on this is probably a good thing

300,000 illegals a month is not a good thing.

Immigration is a good thing for this country but it has to be controlled and governed.

[Bridget Burke]

13. Any Mexican so in need of work ....

that he (or she) makes that long, dangerous trip, won't be turned back by idiot vigilantes with gun fetishes.

I wonder if the Minutemen picked their name by the average time they take to reach orgasm....

[KansDem]

14. I remember seeing a program on this last year...

If I recall correctly, the subject was about these kinds of vigilantes, usually ranchers "who have had enough." A camera team (from a news station?--I can't remember) went out to to record rancher interviews. The cameras also recorded some of the ranchers in action.

What was most disturbing was how close the ranchers came to imprisoning the people they found "crossing the border." IIRC they would report to the authorities if they found someone, but there was also discussion about actually detaining "illegals" (holding someone against his will) if they thought it necessary...

[Bridget Burke]

57. These groups are not new; most are NOT ranchers.

Generally, they're outsiders looking for adventure.

Even the ranchers involved are generally new to the border, living on retirement ranchettes.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

15. Is this the same Jim Gilchrist involved in the Swities attack gang?

If so, let him go.

[No Exit]

16. The Minutemen guys were banned from Freerepublic.

So, one faction of wingnuts is fighting with the Bush faction. This is a good thing.

[MisterP]

17. only because they're to the right: Chimpy supports both illegal

immigration (cheap labor and feeds the vigilantes) and white vigilantism (a-okay on it's own with the Kristian Krusader King)

[No Exit]

48. Heh heh! Chimpy loves aggression... as long as it's HIS guys

doing it! But I don't think he'd like it if all these anti-immigration types showed up on Pennsylvania Avenue. And they've gotten almost to the boiling point, where they might just do that.

What I like about the whole thing is the way the Bush shills on freerepublic are banning and condemning the vigilante wingnuts. 'Cause don'tcha know, "freerepublic abhors racism". Yeah, mm-hmm, okay!

If they keep fighting like this, that will weaken the neocon-infested repukelican party. That's what I'm waiting for!

[cdb]

18. Vigilante Nut Cases Protect America

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/21/border.minutemen.ap/index.html


Can you say Freeper?

[indianablue]

19. I do not agree with them but the Illegal Alien problem is...

out of control and it must be addressed.

I personally do not think the United States should be the flop house for the third world.

I am for tougher immigration much tougher.

I know some people don't agree but this is a very very serious issue and it gets worse everyday.

[drummer55]

20. I'm with ya.

300,000 illegal immigrants a month.

Needs to be regulated and controlled.

[indianablue]

24. I agree :)

Illegal Immigration is costing this country huge. Medically and Criminally.

I am not saying all illegals are bad they are not.

I do not blame them for fleeing their country but we cannot sustain this influx.

[Redstone]

23. And your family came here from where?

Or are you an American Indian? (Wait, even that doesn't count; we came here from somewhere else as well Many say it was from Siberia. Omigod, we Indians are actually Russian!)

This attitude of "Okay, we got in, now everybody else stay the hell out!!" strikes me as a bit cynical for anyone whose ancestors came her from another place.

Redstone

[indianablue]

25. Times have changed

Not everyone in the entire world can live in the Untied States we cannot support everyone as a citizen.

[Redstone]

42. That's utter bollocks. People said the same thing

about the dreaded Wops, Micks, Chinks, Bohunks, and every other group of people who immigrated to the US, starting in about 1820. Read your history books.

EVERY succeeding group of immigrants was going to Overcrowd Our Cities, Drag Our Society Down, Take Our Jobs, and Pollute The Sacred American Way, according to the xenophobic racists of the day.

Just like the xenophobic racists of today are saying. Except today's xenophobic racists do it without using names like the above, at least not in public..

Redstone

[Griffy]

27. I get the impression you dont know about LEGAL immigration..

My grandparents immigrated... thru Elis island... so I want to let people in.. but only those that come in the front door, not sneak in the window.
In reality we need to address the reasons these people are flooding our borders in the 1st place WHILE taking steps to block "free access" to our nation. Both things are important.

As for the patrols, I dont have enough info to make a judgement, I think the goverment should hire people to do this in an offical manner so as to provide accountablity (in a just society) not to mention training that will reduce the number of mistakes(oops.. I thought he had a gun..). That said, if the government cant/wont put the patrol up, then the people should, notice its local people, they might know a little more about this. If we had real media (we do, but still a huge number of Americans dont, they still think MSM is factual) we could count on them following this group. Maybe someone will do some backround checks on these people heading the effort.. we may learn more soon...

[blondeatlast]

58. It strikes me as something worse than that.

Immigrants work damn hard and pay taxes. When those that are screaming to shut the borders are willing to pay more taxes to go after the Hilton Resorts rather than allowing vigilantes to imprison Jorge on their so-called "ranches" then I'll take them seriously.

Until then I just call it "hate."

I live in Arizona, and find it very amusing when people who live in other states think they have a grasp of the problems of illegal immigration.

I've watched at the border crossing as immigrants squeeze between the bars of the revolving gates to get in; 3 feet away from the border patrol.

Until I see those that are so opposed to illegal immigration put their vitriol to those that HIRE them, I retain my opinion.

[DemoTex]

29. Bullshit!

It is a government job. Period. Sanctioned vigilantes on the borders are precursors to sanctioned vigilantes in the cities. Brown shirts, in other words. Wake up people!

Mac

[Redstone]

35. Thank you for pointing that out, DemoTex...

Not only what you said, but boy, the way some of these folks talk, you'd think the streets of their towns were so wall-to-wall with a frenzied flood of Mexicans that they coudn't even back out of their driveways!

Redstone

[DemoTex]

45. Ah ... but that Mexican truck blocking the driveway is the cheap yard-man.

A good writer would go to Dallas and check out the story behind lawn services. Center the story on Lakeside Drive, in Highland Park. Expose these motherfuckers! Not the lawn-mowers; expose the fucking lawn-owners.

[blondeatlast]

61. Same here in Phoenix; and Tucson, and Santa Fe... nt

[blondeatlast]

60. Precisely--I live in PHOENIX, fercookiessakes.

Unless they suspect every brown-skinned person of being "illegal," they just aren't there.

Of course I know they're out there, but they aren't rioting in the streets or even playing the cumbia too loud.

Hell, they make better neighbors than a few of my legal, white neighbors (I'm lily-white, btw). They are too terrified of the police to make any stir.

[blondeatlast]

59. Exactly. Now it's okay to imprison Jorge; how much longer until these

obviously fascistic wackjobs think it's okay to go after Democrats?

[alarimer]

40. if you want to address it

Start with the companies and individuals that hire them. Punish those people and that might begin to end the problem. But be prepared to pay a lot more for fruits and vegetables. Or are you willing (as so many Americans are not) to work in the fields for five bucks and hour and get sprayed with pesticides? Really though, anybody who does that should get paid a lot more.

[blondeatlast]

62. Exactly. Forget a night on the town, most of us can't

afford a $200 dollar steak.

Without the immigrants, there isn't much any of us could afford.

[tyne]

21. what?

I don't see anything wrong with this. The Pres won't protect us. That's evident. Somethings got to be done.

Tyne

[Redstone]

36. "The Pres won't protect us.?" From what?

From people who come here and work the farms in California so we can eat fresh vegetables in the winter?

Some "threat" that is.

Redstone

[purduejake]

43. Terrorists crossing the border...

That does need to be addressed. The people harvesting vegetables are not the only ones coming over. I can't say I would fight for this cause, but at least they are bringing attention to it. (Although what the hell are the repukes in power going to do about it?)

[blondeatlast]

64. The 9/11 terrorists were here LEGALLY.

The first WTC bombers entered illegally from CANADA.

[purduejake]

73. I understand...

but it is more difficult to get in legally now. The mexican border would be very tempting.

[blondeatlast]

63. Welcome.

Enjoy your stay.

[solinvictus]

22. Not necessarily...

There's a huge problem with illegals and drug smugglers committing acts of violence against ranchers and farmers on border areas. It's not too uncommon to have home invasions and such on the border, not to mention illegals creating squatting camps on farmlands. The INS/Border Patrol won't respond due to the sheer numbers of complaints and the fact that they are overwhelmed by the area they have to cover. I can't say that I wouldn't take things in hand as well if I were a landowner in the area. My solution is to build a Mexican/American Friendship Wall patterned on the one that used to separate Berlin. Good fences make good neighbors.

[NNN0LHI]

28. "Wall patterned on the one that used to separate Berlin" Hmmm

Does that include the barbed wired, land mined kill zones, and soldiers manning machine guns in towers that the Berlin Wall was so famous for? Just curious?

Don

[solinvictus]

30. Yep...

Or at least rubber bullets and CS gas. Something drastic needs to be done ASAP about illegal immigration. Keep in mind, this is a Republican initiative because they love exploiting all the cheap labor in their restaurants, poultry plants, and construction sites.

[NNN0LHI]

39. I got a better idea

How about we take a small portion of the trillions of dollars our military currently uses to kill people and start spending it in poverty stricken countries to bring them into the 21st century in a way that allows them to become self sufficient in their own countries and thereby not force them to need to come here for work to keep from starving. What do you think about that idea?

Don

[Redstone]

44. Don, your idea won't work...

It makes too much sense. People would rather bitch and complain than fix a problem.

Redstone

[blondeatlast]

66. So let's go after the brown-skinned people, but God forbid the INS should

sanction the Phoenician Resort?

Please.

[blondeatlast]

65. Can you offer me a link? A citation?

Again, let me stress I'm a Zonie.

The people crossing on foot are very unlikely to do this; they are dehydrated and scared to death. It's most likely the coyotes who bring groups of workers across the border, and they are nasty SOBs indeed.

As involved in politics as I am, I've not heard this, and I'm hardly ignorant.

[PsN2Wind]

26. Those of us ON the border

that pay a helluva lot of money to educate, medicate and incarcerate the illegals probably will have less of a problem with this than some others.
Those that are FOR allowing this to continue should schedule their vacations to come to Southern Arizona and help clean up the ecological mess associated with the illegals passage.

[Disturbed]

33. Yeah. let's build 100 foot walls and shoot anyone that tries to

climb over them from either side.

Would these people flood into Amerika if there were no jobs for them?

[DemoTex]

34. What is the "ecological mess" of illegals, compared to our track record?

That is a loaded statement. I cannot imagine what you mean.

Mac

[wuushew]

37. What you call "Arizona" should rightfully be called Mexican soil

So one could argue that a certain poetic justice exists when our southern brothers reclaim their birthright.

1840's Amerika could easily be compared to the to the tendencies of our modern hegemonic empire. Oil and Israel replaced gold and slavery with the meaningless label of Manifest Destiny serving as that century's terrorism buzzword.

[Just Me]

38. YIKES!!! Wow. Have you taken into consideration WHY it's happening?

Have you considered the possibility these folks are getting a sort of invitation and that these folks are profitting some other folks?

I'd just be mindful of whom I am waging punishment considering all the circumstances.

[alarimer]

47. They are so desperate

That they pay some guy to carry them over the border in the back of some semi truck. Many, many die in the attempt. They remain in debt to the coyotes for years. If they manage the pay them back, they get gouged by the people they work for for food, shelter (some of which is way below standard). They get no medical care while they are bombarded with toxic chemicals. First and foremost these are human beings and deserve to treated that way. Instead the attitude (that we are witnessing on this thread) is "Oh, they are just wetbacks, they'll take our jobs, they're nothing but a bunch of criminals."

[blondeatlast]

67. They live 50 to a house, turn over all but a pittance to the coyotes,

and live pretty much in squalor.

And this is a far better life for them than in Mexico, people.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

53. Oh blah blah blah

When Americans quit hiring illegals, they'll quit coming.

No more an ecological mess than the mining industry in AZ

[PsN2Wind]

55. I'm not here to defend the mining industry

but you're sure welcome to come down and help out the groups that go out in the desert on the common trails and clean up the feces, diapers, sanitary napkins, discarded clothing, empty water jugs, cans etc.. Yeah , I know Blah, Blah, Blah. Come out help out, lip service ain't worth much.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

56. Some solutions here...Barnett is making the problem worse and

actually running the risk of increasing violence.

http://www.americaspolicy.org/updater/2000/july07Immigrat_body.html

[blondeatlast]

69. Get the Hilton, Wal-Mart, McDonald's, Home Depot execs to do it.

That would put a stop to the border crossing but fast.

It was their land...

[Rose Siding]

31. dupe- Here's a link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1254126

[newscott]

32. I'll bet none of them

work in agriculture.

[alarimer]

41. no, a heluuva a lot worked remodelling the apartment

Where I used to live. Of course we do have trade unions here in S. Texas so the cheap-ass owners were definitely going with the lowest bid. Stop this practice and you will curb a lot of the incentive to come here.

[newscott]

49. I have a cousin

who worked in roofing in Arizona a few years back. He said it was weird being the minority. The only white Boston/Irish guy in a business that was mostly Mexican labor. They used to make lots of jokes about him.

[alarimer]

52. They all lived in a vacant apartment

An efficiency; there were at least 5, probably more per apartment. It was probably better than where they came from but still.

[No Exit]

46. The freeptards banned these guys from the FR forum.

These guys (the "Minutemen") were outraged, and screamed their outrage all over the web.

Thus, the Bush bootlickers (freepers) are quarrelling with a different bunch of wingnuts (the closed-borders people, including the "Minutemen".)

This is a good thing. Hope they keep up the infighting!

[Redstone]

51. Oh, that's funny!

It's a riot to hear about those people turning on each other.

Redstone

[No Exit]

74. Yup! It's like watching an anthill with a stick stuck in it! n/t

[Astarho]

50. Not the first time

THEY NEVER SURRENDERED:  Bronco Apaches of the Sierra Madres, 1890-1935 - Even after Geronimo's surrender on September 6, 1886, there were other Apaches hiding in the twisted canyons of the Sierra Madres, who would never submit to the disgrace of being taken to a reservation and assigned a number.

<snip>

Word went out; Apaches were the game.  Thrill seekers rushed to the border to get in on the hunt.  This is the story of those Apaches who never surrendered; and of Francisco Fimbres, a Sonoran rancher who relentlessly pursued; and of the men who flocked to the border in the midst of the Great Depression to participate in the sanguine carnival of the last Apache campaign.
http://members.fortunecity.com/gmeed/id17.htm

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

54. I hope one minuteman shoots another

that'll handle THAT idiotic crusade

[blondeatlast]

68. Just how does one make sure that one is shooting a border crosser...?

I love my state, but dammit, it shames me sometimes.

[Bridget Burke]

70. Do you remember when the US Army was guarding the border?

A few years ago, a US citizen guarding his family goats was shot dead by an Army patrol. Of course, the boy who died "looked Mexican."

[blondeatlast]

71. Now that you remind me, I do remember that. Honestly,

how many people in the area are of Hispanic descent?

Some of the responses in this thread give me the creeps. My neighbors on both sides are Hispanic and I suspect that some of the people in this thread would assume they are illegal.

One simply can't do that in Arizona.

[Bridget Burke]

72. Quite a few people in that area are of Hispanic descent.

Most of their families moved there when my own ancestors were slogging through the bogs of East Galway.