Lawmaker wants state to require viewing graphic photos before abortion

[truthpusher]

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Lawmaker wants state to require viewing graphic photos before abortion

February 21, 2005 3:09 PM

The Associated Press

BOISE, Idaho Republican Representative Ann Rydalch wants the state to require doctors to show women pictures of a fetus before an abortion. But her legislation may not be supported by all of the state's anti-abortion groups.

Rydalch's bill also would force doctors to give women information about abortion alternatives, and tell them that abortion could increase the risk for breast cancer. The National Institutes of Health denies any link between abortion and breast cancer, however.

And Julie Lynde with the anti-abortion group Cornerstone Institute says previous informed consent efforts have been hindered by similar wording. Lynde says her group may introduce its own informed consent bill.

Pro-choice advocates say Rydalch's bill is just an attempt to make it harder for women to get legal abortions in Idaho. And they say it contains medically inaccurate information.

story:
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[DS1]

1. Maybe we should show pictures of blown up kids before people

vote :eyes:

[NVMojo]

5. best suggestion I've heard all year ...

I got the crap pounded out of me on a local bulletin board for doing just that. The right wing fundies do not find it amusing...watch the death of full grown fetuses who breathe air.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

11. I totally agree! n/t

[Jacobin]

12. Now, THERE'S an idea I could REALLY get behind

[Just Me]

20. Best PRO-LIFE suggestion I've heard!!!

When we're able to take care of the life we all can agree exists,...then, we can have a REAL conversation about when life begins.

[Redstone]

33. How about "showing pictures of blown up kids" before

people can join the Army?

No, never mind. that would just bring the coming draft on sooner than planned.

Redstone

[Guaranteed]

45. Or before enlisting....you read my mind. nt

[Ediacara]

2. Wow

How psychotic! I can only imagine that people will travel to the comparitively progressive climate in Utah and Wyoming to have abortions now rather than being subjected to this revolting shame display.

[KittyWampus]

3. Abortion=Increase In Breast Cancer Risk Isn't Inaccurate. It's A LIE!

[MaineDem]

7. Absolutely correct!!!

This woman may be sincere in her beliefs but she's totally incorrect with her facts.

I pity the rest of the women in Idaho if she has her way.

[proudbluestater]

32. That's the truly sad part, they know they are lying and they don't care.

They will do ANYTHING to advance their agenda. Lying is not a new concept to Repukes.

It's really hard to stomach that a FEMALE would sponsor this type of legislation. I consider it to be borderline abusive to the patient.

If men could get pregnant, abortion would become a sacrament.

[MaineDem]

41. "...abortion would become a sacrament"

You are so very correct!

[Ediacara]

9. I never understood the connection

Even if there was a correlation in the rates between the two (which I assume is actually not true), WTF is the cause?

It's like saying that using lip gloss will increase your chances of developing toenail fungus.

[KT2000]

13. here is part of the answer

scientific research is constructed and paid for by people who have an interest in the outcome, such as that used by corporations in litigation.
A while back there was a study conducted to see how many women with breast implant illness had been divorced, had abortions, dyed their hair and had other unlady-like behaviors. This kind of thing is used to get a jury to dislike the plaintiff and consider that she got what she deserves.

Th abortion/breast cancer study could have been looking at hormones as a cause?? But there is no doubt that everyone involved knew what it would be used for. This way they do not have to conduct studies of pesticides (political donors) that are already suspected of causing breast cancer.

As Bush reduces research done by the government, more of it is turned over to the agendas of the corporations. Watch out for the return of the witch trials.

[enki23]

49. there may be a small correlation

one of the known risk cancers for breast cancer is age at first full-term pregnancy. if women who had abortions were, on average, older when they had their first full-term pregnancies, it would be unsurprising if they were to have slightly increased risk of breast cancer.

of course, whatever study they cobbled together probably never considered such a glaringly obvious confounding variable. that's not what they were paid to do.

[American Tragedy]

52. But that risk would still exist even if they didn't have the abortion

It is a lie. Having an abortion does not increase the risk of breast cancer. I dare anyone to present an actual medical argument that would explain how simply having an abortion makes you more likely to develop cancer of the breast.

[enki23]

56. maybe i wasn't really clear... i'm agreeing abortion isn't the culprit

assuming this fairly straightforward expectation were to hold true in this case... the risk of breast cancer, for a woman who had an abortion, would be the same as it would have been had she not gotten pregnant in the first place. however, that risk would be somewhat *greater* for her (in a sense) than it would have been had she carried the fetus to term. i would be surprised if they looked at relative breast cancer rates of women who had abortions after already carrying one pregnancy to term. they may well have lower risk of breast cancer.


off the top of my head, these are a number of the most well known breast cancer risk factors (other than the BRCA genes):

1. age at first menarche (the earlier you hit puberty, the greater your lifetime risk of breast cancer)

2. age at first full term pregnancy (the earlier you carry a pregnancy to term, the lower your risk)

3. number of full term pregnancies (fewer births equals lower risk)

4. age at menopause (the earlier, the lower your breast cancer risk)

numbers 1 and 4 are considered, by many, to be explained by lifetime exposure to endogenous estrogens. actually, you can add obesity to the list as well. also thought to be explained (to some extent) by endogenous estrogen exposure. the lower the exposure, generally, the lower your risk. that's endogenous estrogens, by the way, as there's still no solid evidence (and seemingly less all the time) that environmental estrogens are significantly associated with breast cancer risk in humans.

now, then, in order to to have the lowest possible risk of breast cancer: have a kid as soon as you're physically able. never have any other children. abort any future pregnancies, should they arise. hope for an early menopause.

of course, so far as this infamous study (which i've never actually seen) goes, they may well have just cooked their numbers. or maybe they were incompetent. maybe they had a badly designed study. maybe they just made shit up. (or maybe, though i sincerely doubt it, they're actually right.)

[Zhade]

39. That's because they're not "pro-life". They're pro-LIE.

NT!

[NVMojo]

4. the psycho fuckers have taken over ...must be time to leave ...

[wildmanj]

6. show

what a f****** idiot----if its ok with her, her doctor, and her god then who the hell am i to disagree---seems i have a rather difficult time managing my own business

[daleo]

Ultimately, they will want them to be shown pictures of Hell.

They hope this will make women "scared straight", regarding their choices about reproduction. Watch for a legal effort like this.

[truthpusher]

14. The problem is they will have to reveal who the Dark Lord is:

(notice the horns - actual cover from May 2004)

Time link: http://www.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,1101040524,00.html

[daleo]

15. It took a while, but I finally got it. Excellent. n/t

[Just Me]

22. His HORNS are on the inside.

That cover is pretty freakin' cool!!!

[truthpusher]

38. Wow, heavy. n/t

[Lars39]

8. What is it going to take to stop these shytes from

spreading that lie? :mad:

[Just Me]

27. They can't/won't deal with reality. So, they play on the "unknown".

I call it the "Preacher's Trick".

When life fails to operate by "the rules",...then, ya' play on the "unknown" to escape explanation of reality.

The "Preacher's Trick".

[doodadem]

10. How about we show Ms. Rydalch

Pictures of crack babies, or the baby whose mom cut it's arms off in the news recently, or pictures of millions of babies dying worldwide from starvation and AIDS? It will be like any of several Scrooge movies, where the ghost of Christmas Present, pulls two starving, snarling urchins out from under his robe, and says this girl is Want, and this boy is Ignorance. Of the two, fear this boy most of all........

[Lars39]

16. Anti-choicers have their own little cottage industry

to cook this stuff up. Someone posted these 2 links awhile back to
show that there was a link between abortion and breast cancer.
It didn't take long to dig up the RW anti-choice connections.

http://albalagh.net/population/abortion_breast_cancer.shtml
http://www.bcpinstitute.org/printabc_html.htm

Here's some connections I dug up for another abortion thread:

"Steve Mosher is the president of Population Research Institute,
a non-profit organization dedicated to debunking the myth that the world is overpopulated."

Here's the reason to run like hell from Breast Cancer Prevention Institute:
Joel Brind, President is involved with the American Association of Pro Life Obstetricians
and Gynecologists.
This is the same group that is encouraging its members to not prescribe bc pills,
or to fill the prescriptions, and is pushing hard for the 'conscience' clause for those in medical fields.

I got curious and looked the group up. They run hand in hand with the
Coalition on Abortion/Breast Cancer. Editor Ed Furton is a RW anti-choicer.
www.AbortionBreastCancer.com

Here is REPUTABLE information on breast cancer, not some damn fundy pro-life site :

http://susanlovemd.com

[Piperay]

17. How about showing graphic pictures

of executed people before a jury decides on capitol punishment?? Or showing pictures of graphic surgery before a patient goes under the knife?? Where is this stupidity going to end, it just keeps rolling along getting more and more ridiculous. :crazy:

[Auntie Bush]

51. Show woman what they look like with their face stripped off during

a face lift. That would scare me!

[ck4829]

18. Let's show the stats of America BEFORE Bush and then AFTER Bush

[PurityOfEssence]

19. How about graphic pictures of women dying in childbirth?

It's all incremental. Show a woman pictures of fetuses at the EXACT age of her own if you're going to attempt to use reality as an argument.

[booksenkatz]

21. Right!

"Here's a photo of what your fetus looks like right now, you evil murderer, you! Oh, wait, no, that's a photo of a cat fetus. Or, um, it might be a pig... wait, a chicken? Some sort of vertebrate. Damn those tails and flippers!!!!!"

[Just Me]

25. How's about pictures of beaten children by heterosexual, married couples?

How's about pictures of homeless veterans?

How's about pictures of all the elderly left behind?

How's about pictures of those kids suffering from the most easily of treated illnesses being thrown out of medical coverage?

How's about all the adults dying in this country because they were left behind? Don't they count as a life, too?

[proudbluestater]

35. Alternately, they could show the graves of those women who have

died from complications of a self-abortion by coat hanger. Fair is fair, right? Or pictures of a woman who was cut up in a back alley abortion with unclean "facilities" who died of a massive infection caused by filth.

In Europe they have what they call the Abortion Ship. It travels up and down the coast and picks up women needing abortion in countries that prohibit it. The ship travels out into international waters, performs the abortion and sails back to port. It may come to that some day in this country. It WILL be done, one way or another. Funny that the onus is SOLELY ever put on the woman. I have never met anyone besides the virgin Mary who got pregnant on their own.

They could show some graphics of women who had the shit beat out of them because they REFUSED to get an abortion at their significant other's command, too, just for good measure.

[Zhade]

40. If it did, the "Swift Boat Vets For Fetuses" would torpedo the ship.

NT!

[IndianaGreen]

23. These are the same people that oppose birth control

They are total hypocrites! On one hand they oppose providing contraception to women and teens, and they oppose funding of family planning services. On the other hand, once a pregnancy that could have been prevented takes place, they want the woman to have that child without lifting a finger to help her or her child.

[proudbluestater]

36. They not only don't approve of birth control, they refuse to educate

children about SEX at all. Abstinence based education is a HUGE flop. If you give people the FACTS, for God's sake, they are able to make informed decisions. If you tell teen agers, rebellious as they can be at times, to just say NO to sex, that is not arming them with enough information. It just makes them more curious.

Abstinence based education is literally WORSE than just ignoring it altogether.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

24. I see your bluff and raise you...view graphic war photos prior 2006 vote

Let's see. I think we should pass a law that would require Idaho citizens to view graphic war photos of dead CHILDREN killed by US "friendly fire" prior to casting their vote for Ann Rydalch's re-election in 2006.

She's for saving the children, yet she voted to support a war that KILLED THOUSANDS OF CHILDREN AND LEFT MANY MORE HOMELESS. Typical, hypocritic bullshit, Repuke thinking...

JB

[Triana]

26. Let's show them all the ragged, ill, diseased, malnourished..

poor kids with no chance for a decent future, their poor mothers with no healthcare, filthy clothes, living in squalid and violent drug, gang, and crime-ridden neighborhoods - from all over the world...drinking filthy water, sleeping in their own feces and in boxes or holes in the road, in the mud.

THAT is a sicker and more immoral sight than an aborted fetus. WHEN are the fundies going to live up to their claim to morality and care for the kids that are ALREADY HERE?

[jody]

28. Things I'll never understand.

People who protest killing unborn babies support killing grownup babies and people who protest killing grownup babies support killing unborn babies. :shrug:

[rocktivity]

29. Why stop there? How about ruptured appendixes

extracted tonsils, cholesterol-clogged hearts? Maybe those operations are too disgusting to be done, too!

:headbang:
rocknation

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

30. Kay... And howsabout posters of bloated bodies in front of recruiting

centers?

[TankLV]

31. How are they gonna find a picture of a few dozen cells?

I've got FINGERNAIL CLIPPINGS bigger than what occurs during the vast majority of abortions.

[Erika]

34. This woman is a far right-wing idiot

A Mormon who faults the woman for everything. I might suggest she offer the videos to men. Maybe THEY will think before they have sex.

[Endangered Specie]

37. How about showing dead civilians before being allowed to vote Bush?

:

[dbt]

42. Wow! 42 items in this thread and NO Idaho-bashing!

This stands in stark contrast to what ALWAYS happens at DU when a stupid-ass move by a lawmaker happens IN A SOUTHERN STATE. In those discussions, a thread won't go five replies before the "barefoot, inbred, trailer-trash, cars-up-on-blocks" knives come out.

Very telling.

:freak:
dbt

[depakid]

46. Idaho's a small and relatively obscure state

I wouldn't draw any conclusions from the fact that the knives haven't come out. Yet. ;)

[American Tragedy]

54. It is ironic, isn't it?

Most of that entire region is hopelessly red. Idaho, Utah, and Wyoming in particular have a greater percentage of Bush voters for their population than any of the Southern states. As I've said before, Bush country is in those sparcely populated Western states.

[dbt]

57. Now, look what happens to an ALABAMA story.

Notice how SOON the bashing starts here.

:eyes:
dbt

[ismnotwasm]

43. How about pictures of miscarriages?

There is a statistic somewhere, that it's estimated that up to 25% of all pregnancies self terminate. A lot of the time it's before the women knows she's pregnant, just notices a heavier period. Mostly it would be pictures of a large blood clot, but still.... Now I know both abortion and miscarriage are difficult experiances for most women (and men), and I'm not trying to make light of a miscarriage--or abortion. I just don't want to see pictures of EITHER plastered on billboards. I know what an aborted fetus looks like. I know what a miscarried fetus looks like. I've also held HIV positive herion addicted babies, who are absoulutely unconsolable, and suffer and suffer and suffer. The addiction is eventually managed, and the baby suffers less, but then there's the HIV...Maybe a few pictures of those babies, with a sound track, there is no sound quite like the screams of an addicted baby.

[HockeyMom]

50. Miscarriage

Had one at 4 weeks. Would not have even know unless my doctor had told me so. And by the way, at 4 weeks it is an EMBRYO, NOT A FETUS. MAJOR difference. But they want to term all stages of a pregnancy as a fetus to conjure up images of fully formed "babies". The poster was correct. At that early stage you will see NOTHING.

Also, logically speaking, if as they say, abortion causes breast cancer, then why wouldn't a miscarriage cause it too? Or is it because God is causing the miscarriage so he won't give you breast cancer too? lol

[Kber]

44. Yeah?

How about before breast surgery too?

Or penile implant surgery?

Maybe we should have women view surgery graphically depicting C-sections and live childbirth? Just to show the whole picture? What about birth defects - any pictures of those gonna be available?

[Ilsa]

47. So if they can't change their minds...

... using "morality", they'll settle for lies.

The Reich isn't going to let go of this supposed link to breast cancer. It is a fear alot of women harbor.

[lawladyprof]

48. If I remember correctly, there is a link between nursing and lower

Breast cancer rates. And I think you have to nurse a baby (babies?) for more than six months and the difference in the rates was fairly low. Now, all that said, it would be possible to twist those results into results you wanted--a link between abortion (not carrying the fetus/infant to term and therefore not nursing) and breast cancer rates.

[ElectroPrincess]

53. Remember the sequence:

They came after "the liberal media" first (and won!); now they're attempting covertly to lower the status of "women"; concurrently they covertly (hush hush) assault the gays (* merely exclaims on tape, "I wouldn't fire one." Also Lynn Cheney acts insulted when her daughter's mentioned for the fundies to exclaim, "Poor dear!".

Oh forgive me, since 9/11 they've (RW and Neo-Cons) covert but none the less constantly attacking the Muslims. (Did you hear the freeper on Washington Journal DEMAND that we all know the schoolgirls that wrote insulting letters to troops in Korea were *all* Muslims. Hummm?

Ok, what do we have so far: Muslims, Liberals, Women, Gays ... I forgot Unions? - regrets but they are of NO consequence in today's growing global economy.

This is NOT going to end unless good people stand up (OUR DEMOCRATIC REPRESENTATIVES) to fight these assaults. Where are they now? ... where is their moral courage that JFK lauded of treasured leaders? We need them NOW. But where are they?

[American Tragedy]

55. They should have shown 68% of Idahoans pictures of dead Iraqi children

before they cast their ballots last November. You know, the pictures that won't appear on television or in newspapers.

[Az_lefty]

58. I'm all for it, as long as we're consistent.

Pic's of the unborn child before an abortion...
Pic's of children playing in the streets before bombing...
Pic's of the mentally retarded on death row before execution...
on and on and on.

Perhaps we can stop acting like human life ceases to matter once the child is born and act like human life matters in all stages of life.

Perhaps we can end the cold-hearted hypocrisy of the wingers and start practicing true compassion.

Oh well, like Lennon said, "the dream is over...".

:cry:

[u4ic]

59. Forget about pics

how about shacking up each of these lawmakers with 4 kids in a crappy, small, cockroach infested 2 bedroom apartment, and ONLY give them welfare, and let them sweat it out for 4 months or so that way?

[exploited]

60. Next they'll be wanting us to view grahic photos of porn...

before we decide to engage in sex.

No wait a minute, that can't be right. There must be a flaw in my reasoning.

Can anyone here post a graphic photo that will educate me more?