Some GOP senators want Eastern Washington as a state unto itself

[Ediacara]

Some GOP senators want Eastern Washington as a state unto itself

By RACHEL LA CORTE
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER

OLYMPIA, Wash. -- If Sen. Bob Morton has his way, he'll soon be a resident and lawmaker in the 51st state of the United States.

To Morton, the Cascade Mountains are more than just the dividing line between wet and dry Washington. They are the indisputable wall between political ideologies that only became more apparent during the recent contested governor's race.

The Republican from Orient is the prime sponsor on a joint memorial in the Senate that asks President Bush to create a new state east of the Cascades that would comprise 20 of the current state's 39 counties. Nine other Republican senators have signed on in support. Similar measures have been introduced in past years without success.

"It's not sour grapes," Morton said. "It's common sense. People who think alike should be united."

More at the Seattle Post-Intelligencer

[latteromden]

1. Wait, what the hell? They've gotta be kidding.

If "people who think alike should be united" in their own separate, special little state, can we put all the Democrats in one state and all the Republicans in another? Then we'd just have two states, and it would make it so much easier.

:wtf:

[pokercat999]

69. Don't be so hasty

Let's go one step further and divide the entire country! Wouldn't it be great to get rid of the repugs for good?

[olddad56]

77. Oh, I think the entire country is already deeply divided.

[denverbill]

78. Fine. As long as liberal populations in convervative states do the same.

Why should we give Republicans free electoral votes and get nothing in return? How about freeing Miami/Dade County from the rest of Florida? Austin from Texas? Denver/Boulder from Colorado?

What a fucking crybaby. You lost. Get over it.

[trudyco]

118. Well, I don't know about Walla Walla - they have some blue

but the rest of Eastern Washington is red except for Indian lands.

On the other hand, dividing the country is trickier. I live in Colorado. Are we blue or red? I'd love to cut off the red parts and let them be their own state, except for the 2 senators per state and the electoral college set up. Wouldn't it be interesting to see the red USA support itself?

Hahahahahaha.

trudyco

[pokercat999]

131. Sorry I didn't make myself clear.

Lets divide the US in two separate countries!

[EFerrari]

2. Presupposes people who think like Morton think?

Let's give 'em half of Washington if they all promise to leave Oregon and California.

[LiberalFighter]

30. Better yet... let them all leave Washington and go to...

Idaho or one of the other small populated western state.

[VegasWolf]

41. As long as it's NOT Nevada! n/t

[LiberalFighter]

48. I picked Idaha because it has a small population and die hard red state

Any other state that qualifies AND in the boonies AND the influx of new residents would NOT substantially increase their population and resulting in them having more electoral votes.

[donheld]

83. Idahahahaha

Sometimes boonie thinking people can be in big cities. We have to find a way to really make the split.

[FrankBooth]

47. Uh ... no way

they can't have any part of Washington, East or West.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Coastie for Truth]

24. I'm with you in the Capital of "Fact Based Reality Land"

in Silicon Valley, just down El Camino Real from Stanford, and a few blocks from Intel, Adobe, my dentist is down d'Anza from Apple, my doc is across the street from Stanford.

Let's go.

[BlueStatesForever]

4. They can have their half of my state

And I'll keep the taxes I pay to keep them afloat.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

20. Exactly

The west side has always subsidized those so called independent hard worker salt of the earth types in eastern Washington.

[Bruce McAuley]

115. That's true...

Eastern Washngton has always gotten more than they give as far as tax revenues. Morton's been pushing this idea for quite a while, and while he styles himself an independent logger type, really he's a politician now and likely hasn't run a chainsaw in years. Ferry County, where his home is, has a 50% disability rate, and the majority of the workers here work for the various local, state, and federal agencies.
Loggers, miners, and ranchers? A small minority. I still have yet to figure why the voters here are 60% Republican, but they are. We have a whole lot of retirees and snowbirds too as the land and housing prices are dirt cheap compared to the West side, and the rainfall is 50% of the coast.
A great place to live, but our representatives tend to be Republican wackos.

Bruce

[Mike Niendorff]

5. "people who think alike should be united"

Good plan. I look forward to seeing the blue parts of Texas, Missouri, Ohio and Florida follow suit.


MDN

[Anarcho-Socialist]

6. They're just wanting to get 2 more GOP senators

The Senate makes a mockery of representation as it is, where the more populous states are under-represented.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

7. I move to make South Texas it's own state!

This could work to our advantage!

[TahitiNut]

8. Then force Wyoming to merge with a neighboring state or two.

Wyoming, with two voting Senators and one voting Representative, has about 30% fewer residents than Washington, D.C., with NO votes in Congress!

[hedgehog]

16. I don't remember my history

but if Wyoming were a territory today, would it qualify for statehood population-wise?

[happyslug]

96. Northwest Ordinance said 60,000 citizens, Wyoming has 501,242.

Wyoming population is today 501,242, which is more than the 60,000 needed in the Northwest ordinance to become a state.

Population of Wyoming::
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/56000.html

Northwest ordinance of 1785 (Yes it PREDATES the Constitution but remain the law unless repealed by Congress):
http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/facts/democrac/5.htm

[keopeli]

58. Just as long as it's not Utah

:crazy:

[paineinthearse]

9. joint memorial?

WTF is a joint memorial?

[geniph]

92. A wake for Bob Marley?

that's the only joint memorial I can think of.

[AlinPA]

10. OK, lets break PA into 3; middle=repuke, west and east= Democratic

[Coastie for Truth]

25. Yeah but Rickie carried Allegheny Countyt

[happyslug]

145. So The Mountains of Pa view Pgh Like Pa South of Blue Mt view Philly

That is their city. Mayor Murphy once joked that right after he was elected Mayor he was in Wheeling WV and a a local at a gas station pumping gas point him to him and say they the Mayor (i.e. Mayor of Pittsburgh NOT Wheeling).

Now this is less true once you cross Allegheny Mountain but most people in the Western Rural Counties sooner or later go to Allegheny County to shop or do some other activity. Thus Pittsburgh is THEIR City, they do not live in the City of Pittsburgh but that does not mean Pittsburgh is not Their City. I have seen this is Erie, Allegheny Forest and while into the Northern Tier Counties. You see a similar tendency (through less admitted) in the Counties South of Blue Mountain, but they tendency is to Philadelphia, not Harrisburg, Bethlehem or Allentown.

The reason for this is can be traced to the Coal industry. The Western 1/3 of the state is a Soft Coal area and as such were tied in with the Steel Mills of Pittsburgh. A lot of people moved between these areas and as such you had the start of the above attitude that Pittsburgh was their city.

Here is a dialect map and a Soft Coal map, note how the Area in Western Pa is almost the same in both maps:


http://www.evolpub.com/Americandialects/PennaDialMap.html


http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/enved/go_with_inspector/coalmine/Anthracite_Coal_Mining.htm

[sasquatch]

11. Better yet we'll give you the southern confederacy again

Except you won't get Kentucky because Kentucky was neutral.

[sierrajim]

12. Dont play that game here. Did you see how much red in in this state?

[Ediacara]

13. But....

Most (obviously not those in the LA area) of those red counties could (population-wise) fit into any one of those green counties....

[Lydia Leftcoast]

14. They should detach Eastern Oregon from Western Oregon, too

and maybe Western Oregon will get a sensible legislature for a change, instead of yahoos who say things like, "What my people want is less taxes and more services."

Or, better yet, make Eastern Washington and Eastern Oregon one state (Sagebrushia), which would add only two Republicanite Senators and retain the Dem politicians in the Western halves.

[SomewhereOutThere424]

17. They should do the same to

Florida, ohio, and pennsylvania. Maybe then the electoral college won't be so one sided anymore.

[NEOBuckeye]

55. Ohio could break up into 3 states: Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati

-Cleveland, Akron and Canton and the surrounding counties would all form a "Northeastern Ohio" state. Actually, that might be the best thing to happen to us. Summit (Akron) County's Chief Executive has even brought this idea up.

-Cincinnati would probably claim Dayton and Springfield, as well as Covington and its metro areas in Northern Kentucky, all as part of a new "Southwestern Ohio" state.

-Columbus would own central Ohio. No surprises there.

-The Southeastern Ohio counties in Appalacia would probably join West Virginia.

-Toledo would probably rejoin Michigan (it was originally part of Michigan's territory.)

I'm not sure what exactly would become of the "Red Counties" sitting out in the middle of nowhere, between the metro areas, but I have a feeling that the 3 states would pick them up as "farm territory". We still have to get our food from somewhere.

[American Tragedy]

129. What happens to Louisville then?

Are we to remain part of the Appalachian territory? Or become part of Indiana? Why don't you extend the Southwestern Ohio region even further west to absorb the Louisville metropolitan area. It would be big and create some rather awkward looking boundaries, but it would wind up encompassing most of the Ohio River valley, which would be a sensible basis for the state.

We might need to discuss the name of this hypothetical state, though.

[NEOBuckeye]

133. I was thinking about that.

I'm not terribly familiar with Louisville beyond a few trips through it over the years to visit relatives much further south, and its' City-County consolidation project (which incidentally, I think is an excellent model that Ohio's "Big Three" cities should immediately adopt). But I was thinking that Cincinnati and Louisville are really part of the same region that even includes the southern tip of Indiana.

Actually, several Cincinnati leaders have been discussing setting up a regional government for the entire Cincy-Northern KY metropolitan area for quite some time. The biggest obstacle? State boundaries. Legally, Cincinnati can't annex Covington or anything in Kentucky, beyond its boundary in the Ohio River. But the possible weakening or collapse of State governments in the next 10 to 20 years may make such a regional government both possible and necessary.

An old but interesting read --
http://www.cincypost.com/news/gallis061999.html

As for naming, I would pretty much lend that role to each region's largest and most easily identifiable city. The Cleveland City-State would simply be known as Cleveland, although the Columbus City-State might just opt to call themselves the City-State of Buckeye.

How well do people in Cincinnati and Louisville get along?

[gizmo1979]

15. Excellent idea.

We'll give northern wi to the repugs.That should give them 1congressman and obligatory 2 senators.

[Ellen Forradalom]

49. Oostburg and points north?

The new northern WI state can be Fishboilia, and the south can be LaFollettia.

[gizmo1979]

97. That would be bad

because I'am from Sheboygan maybe we could include Mequon,Port oostburg and then flair out for a bit.I have a running fued with the freaks from oostburg.

[Ellen Forradalom]

114. "Freaks from Oostburg"

Sounds like a great band name.

When I went to college in central Illinois we had a boys-from-Lexington problem. They'd show up at shows, get drunk, slamedance, and pick fights.

[sonicx]

18. Give us our half of OH and FL, and it's a deal.

[msongs]

19. how bout N. California and S. California = 4 more dems Sens + DC =

2 more dems sens.

hmmmm washington means 2 more for the repugs and we get 6 more

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[mainer]

21. So - without the tax base of seattle -- what's he gonna do?

He's a blue stater longing for red state poverty?

[maxsolomon]

22. Sagebrushia is not a bad idea

go and see how far you get without our money to pave your roads.

[rustydog]

34. I don't think these Repub retards even thought that far ahead!

Most of the Eastern Washingtonians (Free Republic Washington) are under the misconception that we support Seattleites!
let these retards split into "East Washington". let them have Dino Rossi and let that realtor cut their taxes then see how they get police departments, fire departments school districts funded in retard land.

P.S. I can call this retard land because I happen to live in Yakima, Washington, possibly the capitol of Free Republic Washington.
the good news, I'm moving over the mountains in 6 months!
Hallejuah, I have been to the mountain top, and I have seen the promised land...it is not Central Washington I can assure you.

[NurseLefty]

86. They would become a true red state in more ways than one.

All the hypocritical rhetoric from red staters about welfare - yet they are the ones feeding off revenue generated by blue states/blue regions!
The same goes in my home state of Washington. These bible-thumping backward ingrates boo-hoo all the time about us godless liberals who writhe in our sin in Greater Seattle. Yet OUR BLOOD, SWEAT AND TEARS generate tax dollars that keeps them afloat!
Go ahead - create Eastern Washington - see how you do without us.
Western Washington has the brains, beauty, and money, and we'll be better off without ya!
As a housewarming gift, we'll give you Dino Rossi, Chris Vance, and Tim Eyman (who went to WSU, anyway). Enjoy, and Good Riddance!

[carolinayellowdog]

23. East Carolina and North Virginia

would give us two more blue states to counter their one more red

[ncteechur]

134. Amen to that.

[progressivebydesign]

26. As a Western Washingtonian.. I say 'go for it!'.

The Eastern/New Red Staters will SORELY miss OUR tax dollars! I have no clue what those folks are smoking out there... but Washington is a damn finely run State. SOrry if they got their Rush Limbaugh panties in a bunch over Dino Lossi, but they are welcome to go away.

[PsN2Wind]

28. They should combine with Eastern Oregon

(I lived many years in Klamath Falls) and assimilate with those Idahores because they all think alike

[HuckleB]

135. Indubitoubly. They can think alike. We'll save some big bucks.

We've supported them for years now. If they don't like it, then leave. Perhaps then we can afford decent education and health care west of the Cascades.

:hi:

[ribrepin]

68. Can't happen soon enough for me

I sick of visiting my elderly father in Eastern Washington and listening to people bitch about paying for the stadiums in Seattle.
Meanwhile I'm driving on roads in Eastern Washington that we "coasties" would die for.

Dino wouldn't want to be their governor--the money's on the west side.

[PsN2Wind]

27. This idea was floated in Arizona some years ago

Only instead of two states it would be three. The North of the state with Flagstaff and the Grand Canyon would then be Alta Arizona. The south section of the state Tucson, etc. would be Baja Arizona, That center section including Phoenix would then be known as Caca Arizona.

Hey Skinner, where's my star?

[ronnykmarshall]

80. Caca Arizona??

:D

[mrdmk]

29. In California, some elected officials were talking about dividing

the state into three parts. The reasoning was what does a Representative Northern California care about what happens in Southern California. It was just too much to worry about and would be so better to governing a smaller portion. Then the San Francisco earthquake occurred, and revenue and emergency services came from the four corners and all in between in the state. These assholes shut-up very quickly. End of story.

P.S. "It's Not sour grapes", my ass! The man would not know a sour grape if it hit him square in the tonsils...

[EFerrari]

32. California is about water and the prison workers union

or, used to be. Lately, it's been about an Enron back Gropenator.

So, the water access will always play a big part in policy/political decisions.

[kodi]

31. sounds good, now lets make all 5 boroughs of New York City states

since there will undoubtably be more people in each of those than "eastern washington"

[PROGRESSIVE1]

33. "Northern Virginia", "Northeastern Ohio", and "Gary Indiana"

will be our three new BLUE states then!

[bunkerbuster1]

35. Yeah, that's going somewhere.

Your state tax dollars at work.

[4dsc]

36. Don't forget UPPER Michigan..

Uppers would like nothing better than to have their own state..

[Mills Street]

37. Or be a part of Wisconsin.

But seriously, every state seems to have it's halves. Northern WI is nothing like southern WI.

[semillama]

82. Blasphemy!!!!

No self-respecting yooper wants to be part of wisconsin.

State of Superior or Bust!

[Sabriel]

144. I remember those t-shirts! "Superior: America's 51st State"

And, we get to keep the Packers....

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

38. Why stop there... Let's have two different Countries! Republica can

spend all their spare time watching reruns of Charlton Heston and Mel Gibson Movies when they're not trying to build faith based cars.

[Renew Deal]

39. Sick people

Really sick. OK, lets break up Ohio and Florida too. I like it.

[mordarlar]

40. :::sigh::: It was a nice country while it lasted.

[Erika]

42. Eastern Washington/Northern Idaho/Northern Montana

have considered making themselves one state. The problem is that they are all rednecks who have been feeding off the blue areas in their states. If it weren't for the blue areas paying more and them paying less, they would be in abject poverty. Let them go for it.

[Ediacara]

64. I would not be happy with that

And neither would Morton. Western Montana is pretty liberal and getting more liberal, and would probably offset any push towards red state-itude.

[Erika]

111. Eastern Washingtonians can't support themselves

They have intense federal subsidies for agricultural pursuits then they siphon off funds from the blue areas. Let them be their own state, they would fold. The first state in bankruptcy.

They've lived off the federal teat so long that they think it belongs to them. And let the blue people pay for it.

[stevedeshazer]

43. I'm bending over double laughing at the irony here

Eastern Washingtonians are among the most highly-subsidized people in the WORLD.

Out of Washington's six million people, about one million live in Eastern Washington, home of:

-Hanford Nuclear Reservation, hundreds of billions of federal dollars

-Grand Coulee, Ice Harbor, Little Goose, Lower Monumental, and Lower Granite dams, all built using billions of federal dollars funneled through the Corps of Engineers and the Bureau of Reclamation to enrich a handful of farmers at the expense of all the rest of us, ruining salmon runs in order to irrigate millions of acres of desert scrub land

It would be cheaper to BUY OUT EVERY EASTERN WASHINGTON CITIZEN and pay to move them somewhere else than to allow them to continue to drain the federal treasury in order to survive in an area best left to jackrabbits, antelope and sagebrush.

[Ellen Forradalom]

72. Jackrabbits, antelope and sagebrush?

Jackalopia! I like it as much as Sagebrushia!

[icymist]

99. Make them move to Western Washington.

There, they can learn to become human beings, like the rest of us.

[xxqqqzme]

113. why is that guy laughing?

Doesn't he know he has a giant penis on his head?

[Cats Against Frist]

147. Yeah -- what a bunch of damn imbeciles

I have to say, though, that, at twilight, when the trees turn turquoise, it's kind of pretty, out there.

That said, I think they should just mass exodus to Idaho or something -- Seattleites certainly don't want to live under their bullshit.

I think that WA and OR should just combine, and then do a vertical split. It would be the coolest and most beautiful state in the U.S., except maybe Hawaii.

[Liberty Belle]

44. A scheme to get more GOP Senate seats.

Each state gets 2 Senators, so carving out a conservative area as a state by itself gives you 2 more Senate seats.


Hmmmm....Maybe blue states where voting machines don't yet control the outcomes could divvy up and take back the Senate. I can see it now: the new states of Manhattan Isle, Marin, Maui and Olympia.
Definitely this has some potential! ;-)

[Orsino]

101. Yep. Just another GOP gerrymandering scheme. n/t

[depakid]

45. Oh boy, Can we split California too?

Between SoCal & NoCal? That actually would make sense.

On another note I sincerely wonder where this idiot thinks he's going to get the tax base to run his "new state" without Western Washington?

Oh, I forgot- they don't need no stinking tax base out on the Palouse....

[A Simple Game]

46. I didn't want to bring this up, being an unpatriotic idea, but

since the GOP got the idea started, can Northern New York State join Canada?

[DeaconBlues]

50. Sure, you can have eastern Washington

as soon as D.C. is given representation in Congress. Dumbasses.

[Ellen Forradalom]

51. Excellent apple-based economy they've got there, I hear

Apples---the wave of the future, I hear.

[kiraboo]

52. I guess this is a direct result

of Bush's work to unite us all. Excellent job Mr. Resident.

[quaoar]

53. Great. Let's also have the new state of West Florida

Spanish West Florida tried to form an independent nation in 1810 but failed. Let's set it up as a separate state. This is the area from the Atchafalaya River near Tallahassee west to Baton Rouge.

Such a state would take all the Republicans in Pensacola out of Florida and deliver Florida's electoral votes to the Democratic candidate.

I'm all for it.

In fact, let's make Puerto Rico a state as well.

[DeaconBlues]

54. I think this says a lot about the allegiance these bozos have for the

state and its citizens who gave them their positions.

[regnaD kciN]

56. If they split California in two at the same time, I say "go for it!"

I live in Washington state. Most of the tax revenue is gathered from the liberal western part of the state...and most of the funding, subsidies, etc., go to the wingnut eastern part (whose residents then go on to rail against "big government" and "tax-and-spend liberals"). :eyes:

I'd be quite happy to not give eastern Washington a say in choosing my state officials. My only concern with a split would be that it gives the Republicans two new senate seats. So, if we split California into northern and southern branches, the two extra (almost certainly Democratic) senators from there would offset the two likely yahoos from eastern Washington. A good deal all-around, I'd say.

;-)

Of course, it's only a second-best alternative to my preferred choice: to have (at least western) Washington and Oregon secede from the U.S. to form the soverign Republic of Cascadia (or "Pacifica," if all or part of California wants to join us).

[Cats Against Frist]

148. Ahhhh Cascadia

http://zapatopi.net/cascadia.html

Where the native "tree octopus" roams...

[cascadiance]

150. Agree with this...

And perhaps merge with Canada to have a "greater Canada that takes away all contiguous access to the West Coast (assuming that Alaska stays with the continental U.S. and Hawaii also defects with us) from what remains of the U.S. and still gives the newer union access to the Atlantic.

We should leave states intact now, especially California to provide a greater opportunity for a powerful state proposition of secession being a political weapon in the years to come when we might need it. Split apart, it would be harder to use.

Also, I wonder where the Alaska pipeline "comes out". Would that be in "eastern Washington"? Perhaps them protecting access to the pipeline is what it's about in case there is a Cascadia, Pacifica, etc. split. If Washington is intact, it makes it much more of a bargaining chip if there is a secession if the rest of America wants to get access to Alaska's oil. If the new union has control over the receiving point of the pipeline, that's more good "tax revenue" to be had.

[quaoar]

57. And how about a black-majority state

You could easily form one by combining the Mississippi Delta region from Memphis to Jackson with the Black Belt region of central Alabama and the eastern section of Arkansas along the Mississippi River.

[American Tragedy]

130. Now that is a great idea!

[secretpoet]

59. Eastern Washington has wanted to be its own state for *years*

I think they wanted to name themselves 'Comlumbia' or 'Columbus' or something like that.

Does anyone know how the House reps go in terms of population? I somewhat want to know how many House seats they'd end up taking if they split from the rest of Washington.

We in the Western section would end up paying more for apples... but probably less in taxes, ne?

[Ediacara]

65. Two districts

WA 4



and WA 5



WA 8 is on the west side but is barely GOP, all the rest of the western districts are Dems.

[gottaB]

60. What was Gregoire's margin of victory?

Everybody talking trash about the East side might as well be writing personal letters to 992** zipcodes begging the recipients to never vote Democratic again.

The fact is there's not a single county that Democrats can afford to write off:

http://vote.wa.gov/general/resultsbycounty.aspx?o=3001&t=s

Not even little Garfield County. There were 428 voters in that county who chose Gregoire over Rossi. The last thing Washington Democrats need is to be providing encouragement for those 428 voters to vote Republican. Furthermore, Spokane County should be regarded as competitive, and there are several smaller counties where Democrats could stand a fighting chance if they put in a modicum of effort and resources. What does it cost to be thoughtful?

Bash Morton, Rossi, McCaslin et al to your heart's content. Once you start spouting off about red county constituents, you might as well be working for the other side--the real other side.

I take Kline's position to be sarcastic. Fine as far is it goes. Ha ha. Listen to what Brown is saying. She makes sense and she speaks for the Party.

[Damien]

61. CASCADIA! CHECK THIS OUT!

http://zapatopi.net/cascadia.html

[98geoduck]

62. I especially like their stamp!

[Damien]

63. heck ya

I found this site a few months ago -- just thought of it here.

[quaoar]

76. This one seems more fitting.

[Damien]

81. lol

[GaYellowDawg]

66. You know what?

Fuck him. Montana's got plenty of room.

[SoCalDem]

67. Skeletor wants his senate seat back?

[fishface]

70. Just when you think you've witnessed the height of rethug

moronic behavior, yet another one will jump right up and reinforce just how fuked up they are.

[Charon]

71. Eastern Washington

This is hardly late breaking news, I heard talk of this since the early 1960s. Besides that, I believe that it would require a amendment to the Constitution to make it happen. Dont have my copy with me, but I believe that the Constitution prevents carving up an existing state to make another state, West Virginia not withstanding.

[yellowcanine]

73. West Virginia was a special case resulting from the Civil War

I don't know what the actual constitutional process would have to be - but you are correct - it would be very difficult. WV was a one-time exception to the rule because of the extraordinary circumstances of Virginia having seceded from the Union and the Western part of the state petitioning for statehood.

[happyslug]

93. All you need is permission of the state involved.

That is what Lincoln did with Virginia and West Virginia.

When the State of Virginia voted to succeed from the Union in 1861, the state Representatives from West Virginia left the Virginia State house in Richmond and re-formed in Wheeling (On the Ohio River). Lincoln recognized this splinter legislature as the "Real" State Government of Virginia and did so throughout the Civil War (It was the Virginia legislature that Ratified the Civil War Amendments for Virginia, even while Lee was still trying to keep Grant out of Richmond).

Now in 1862 this federally recognized Virginia Government than gave permission for the Counties of West Virginia to become the State of West Virginia. Thus West Virginia became a state in 1863. For the next two years the West Virginia legislature would rule West Virginia, but when Lincoln needed the vote of the state of Virginia many of its members would re-form as the legislature of Virginia and vote for Virginia.

For example on February 3, 1865 West Virginia ratified the 13th amendment to the Constitution (outlawing Slavery) and than most of the state politicians voted as members of the Virginia Assembly to ratified the amendment on 2/9/1865.

My point is to clarify HOW West Virginia split from Virginia but also to point out all that is needed is permission of the state (or states) involved the the Federal Congress to make new states out of old states.


Here is a copy of the US Constitution with date ratified by each state:
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am13

[happyslug]

146. You forgot about Maine, the other state made from another state.

Now that was in 1820 and Massachusetts seems to have made the move first but until till 1820 Maine was part of Massachusetts not an Territory of the the Federal Government.

Thus you have had two states made from other states, but both with the orginal's state permission (Virginia's permission during the Civil War is questionable, but permission was given by the Virginia Government Recognized as such by the Federal Government, even through the majority of people of Virginia recognize another body as their State Government).

[Az_lefty]

74. Any group of repigs that want their own little area is fine with me

as long as we can build a tall fence around it and keep the freaks contained.

[glitch]

75. The hidden beauty of gated communities. If only they knew...nt

[peterh]

79. I’m not one for tearing existing states apart…

I’m just for a better educated populace, a responsible media and less tyranny over the mind…but aside from that, the real issue here, I feel, is what is being espoused by this critter….

"It's common sense. People who think alike should be united."

Its unadulterated SEGREGATION!!! Not that that should come as a surprise to anyone on this board, but here’s a repug going public on his desire for segregation…..that should be the headline and issue.

[bhunt70]

84. DC First.

[fortyfeetunder]

85. Maybe we can recall the troops back from Iraq!!!

Sounds like if this little secession thing gets all heated up, we'll end up with a Civil War II.

Therefore we'll have to recall all the National Guard, and reservists, not to mention all armed services personnel stationed in Iraq to come home and fight.

[POAS]

87. NE OHIO

should opt out and perhaps join PA, better yet Canada.

[distantearlywarning]

88. As a Pennsylvanian who wants to keep my state blue,

I vote for the voluntary secession of Pittsburgh and Philly. The rural areas that mooch off us can go hang. They can call themselves Pennsyltuckyia and elect Santorum god.

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

143. We can only dream...

Pittsburgh (& surrounding blue counties), Philadelphia (& surrounding blue counties) and, don't forget Erie is another blue part of our state. The rest is just Penn-syl-tucky with lots of cows and woods.

[applegrove]

89. Another gated community goes up. Look for them everywhere!!

They'll need those gates!

[rukkyg]

90. My favorite part is

when it says "asks President Bush to create a new state." These people really do think Bush can do anything, don't they?

It's in Article Bush of the Constitution.

1. The president, from time to time, shall convene a session of himself and the vice president and make new states whenever he feels like it.

[geniph]

95. 'Article Bush of the Constitution'

I like that! (Well, actually, it's a hideously horrible idea, but a funny statement.)

Oh, and :hi: Welcome to DU!

[satya]

102. LOL! n/t

[GoddessOfGuinness]

91. "People who think alike should be united"

Good idea.
Send 'em all to hell.

[tom_paine]

94. "People who think alike should be united" ?!?

:wtf: :wtf:

I mean, I know these Busheviks are Totalitarian Scum, but hey, how 'bout at least a little Patented Phony Bushevik Lip Service to the Principles of the Now Dead Old America!

Or maybe he should just get his ass over to Commie China, where everyone is united in a cozy BushPutinist State (at least they are moving towards BushPutinism, which is the Free-Market version of Totalitarianism now dominating the world, since they decided to drop straight Communism).

Just like a Totalitarian Bushevik Monster would like it. (provided HIS side was in charge of the BushPutinist State as they are here in Amerika)

[Piperay]

98. OK then Washington DC

should also become a state.

[Sapphire Blue]

100. The reds should just secede & take their Bushies with them....

along with their fascism, wars, budget deficits, greed, bigotry, dominionism, ad infinitum.

[donco6]

103. New state of Denver/Boulder

The only island of sanity left here.

[lala_rawraw]

104. Only if Dems

Can have South Florida... how about that for a trade? Then Jeb can rob the Repugs.

[jmowreader]

105. I like Senator Adam Kline's take on the thing

He is a Democrat from Seattle who claims to be in favor of the split because he'd like to see tax revenue from Western Washington stay in Western Washington.

[HuckleB]

136. Exactly.

Same situation down here in Oregon. They can whine all they want, but they're subsidized by us wetlanders. If they really want to leave, by all means, go!

[autorank]

106. NOVA or TechWorld -- New State of Northern Virginia

We are way cool in NOVA or
Welcome to TechWorld

[WorseBeforeBetter]

107. We are...

but we are being infiltrated by "the enemy." I see so many vehicles with W stickers slapped on them - it's disturbing. Perhaps NOVA can break off and we take DC with us?

[autorank]

110. My dream state!!! Then we could be Hip Hop Techtopia.

I'm noticing them a bit more but I think they're just taunting us. We took ours off the three vehicles and I suspect others did (although the DU stickers remain...is it true those help you not get a ticket/).

Also, the vote was rigged here. I poll watched in NoVA. By 9:30 nearly 50% had voted, absentee and those who showed up. Miracle of miracles, by the end of the day, heavy traffic, it was only up to 65%. I'm seriously thinking of asking to examine the sign in books, counting them up, and comparing that % to the vote totals.

Keep the faith!

[PROGRESSIVE1]

128. kick

[eridani]

108. To avoid the 2 extra senators thing--

--why not split Washington and Oregon along the Cascades---Cascadia and Sagebrushia? It would play hell with the athletic rivalries, though?

[Generic Other]

109. West of the mountains we call these folks downwinders

Too close to Hanford, you know...

[Sapphire Blue]

112. Canada 2.0

[noonwitch]

116. The Yoopers in Michigan sometimes want their own state, too

Lansing is a long ways away from Iron Mountain.

[Walt Starr]

117. It's unconstitutional to do this

Article IV.
Section. 3.
Clause 1: New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

For a state to do this, it would require more than one state to form the new state and would require the Legislatures of two or more states and the Congress to approve.

For one state to bust up into two would require this section af the Constitution to be amended.

[durablend]

119. Constitution = TP as far as the repugs are concerned

And they're running out of clean patches to wipe with.

[Solon]

120. Uh, doesn't require an amendment...

As the clause you quoted said, it requires the consent of either an individual state legislature and Federal Congress, or the consent of any other states involved. Make sure to pay attention to the punctuation, as in here the Article you quoted.

Article IV.
Section. 3.
Clause 1: New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

OK, the semicolon represents the break, now, take out the italicized section of the quote, and how does it read? It doesn't require more than one state, just whatever states, from 1 to 50, that need to give their consent. This is to prevent both the federal government and individual counties from arbitrarily splitting off into who knows how many different states, if given a choice.

[Walt Starr]

123. Wrong, the comma provides the break

thus the consent clause is applicable only to the Junction Clause and not to the jurisdiction clause.

Grammatically, a semicolon rather than a comma would be required for the consent clause to apply to both the junction clause and the jurisdiction clause. This is further supported by the use of the plural form of "States" within the consent clause rther than "State or states". The implication is the consent clause is only applicable to more than one state.

At the point of the semicolon, a break is formed between two wholly independent clauses.

[Solon]

124. Your right, I misread it, to a certain extent...

I guess this is one of those 'implied' statements that has never really been tested before the courts. As far as I'm aware of, only one state has even successfully attempted to leave another, during the civil war, and it was West Virginia. However, since it was never challenged in the courts successfully, it was constitutional by precedence more than anything else. Of course there is another exception, Texas, which could, theoratically, spit into 5 states if it wanted to. But as far as an intellectual exercise, I don't see why they can't do it, as long as they go through the proper channels like West Virginia did, and Bush is not one of those channels obviously. On a practical level, it won't happen, no state as of right now would vote to split itself up, even if it would help the current majority party. Simply because it would diminish the overall power of the state in the House, who hold the purse strings after all.

[Walt Starr]

127. The annexation law allowing Texas to split into five states

was null and void upon readmission to the Union after the civil War.

[themaguffin]

121. Only if...

they join it to Idaho, therefore not gaining 2 Senators AND agree to split another state in such a manner(as mentioned many times above. South Florida, North VA, etc.

Not only would they NOT gain Senators, we would and more Representatives too...

[happyslug]

122. Some thoughts on making new state borders.

One of the problems with the US is our state borders reflect the political situation when they were formed NOT what is the driving political/economic forces today. Even at the time of the formation of the Union (1775-1787) people knew the state borders were bad and needed adjustment, some adjustments occurred at that time (Mostly the Eastern States giving up their rights to land west of them). With the formation of the Union most of the real bad problems disappeared (Becoming "Federal" issues over time). One example of such "Federal Issues" is how the Mississippi's river flows, another is how gets what Water from the Colorado and Rio Grand Rivers.

Now some of these "Federal Issues" would be better off decided locally than in Washington, but to do so locally means the states involved would have to work together. They have not and consistently referred to Washington to decisions. Part of this problem is do to the present state borders, borders that better reflect the economic issues of the area would permit decisions to be made locally. To see what I am taking about lets look at the Colorado and Rio Grand Rivers.

The Colorado and Rio Grand start in the the Rocky Mountains of what is today the State of Colorado. Both rivers than flows through the southwest through semi-arid areas (In the mid-1800s called the Great American Desert, but reality not true desert but still very arid). The biggest single issue in these two river valleys is how to divide the waters of these two rivers. This is complicated by the fact the Rio Grand borders Mexico and the Colorado flows out of the US into Mexico and into the Gulf of Cortez (thus Mexico has a say in how the waters of both the Colorado and the Rio Grand are to be used). Today Mexico is complaining that the US is using to much of the Colorado AND the US is complaining that Mexico is NOT permitting enough flow into the Rio Grand from some of the Rio Grand's tributary rivers that Flow from Mexico. All of this has to do with LOCAL USAGE OF THE WATER, the single biggest issue in these two areas.

The Situation of both rivers valleys is made worse by the fact the largest states (both in Area and Population) that borders each rivers, the river itself is minor to those two states. Texans may be happy that the Rio Grand in their Southern Border, but the vast majority of Texans lived and get their Water from sources independent of the Rio Grand. California also borders the Colorado, but most of its water is from other sources NOT the Rio Grand (Through Southern California and Los Angles and San Diego are dependent on the Colorado River as a source of their water, while San Antonio, Dallas, Ft Worth and Houston are NOT dependent on any of the water of the Rio Grand).

My point here is these population centers have little or no incentive to resolve the problem of who gets what of the waters of these two rivers. A better solution would be to form two new states out of these rivers Valleys, with these states have primary responsibility of dividing who gets what water. To make this work you not only have to include parts of all of the states presently in the South West but parts of the Mexican States that also are in the water shed of these two rivers valleys.

Basically you need to see two new states, State of the Colorado River and State of the Rio Grand. Any County of Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, Arizona, Nevada and California that is in the water shed of each River should be made part of the new states, Along with Mexican States that also flow into these rivers (and the Gulf of Cortez whose main source of nutrients is the Colorado River). This way you will have just one government deciding how the waters of these two rivers are to be used (With adequate Federal oversight).

The same can be said of the Upper Missouri and the Columbia and Snake Rivers systems. These River systems need to be managed by someone, Government are formed to MAKE THESE MANAGEMENT DECISIONS.

In the east the problem is NOT water but urban expansion. If you think about it Philadelphia and New York City have more in Common than Pittsburgh has with Philadelphia or Buffalo with New York City. A A Better STATE border for New York would be to take in Northern New Jersey, Parts of Connecticut and cut itself off from Upper New York State. Massachusetts would be better if it had ALL of metro Boston in it. Philadelphia would be better off with souther New Jersey, the Pennsylvania Counties South of Blue Mountain (The first Mountain Ridge in Pennsylvania of the Appalachian Mountains) and even parts of Maryland and Delaware. Some sort of Artificial line has to be drawn between Baltimore and Philadelphia but once done parts of Pennsylvania are better going go Baltimore than Philadelphia (And with the Chesapeake a growing concern Baltimore may want greater input in the Susquehanna River Water shed than does Philadelphia).

The rest of the Country is not much better. Metro Areas divided by State lines make NO SENSE. Contingent Metro Areas that are separate metro areas do to being in different states make even less sense (For Example Gary Indiana and Chicago Illinois).

My point here is we do need to re-draw the borders of our states. The above are the two worse drawn state borders. We have to do this on a national level but should be done. The big Issue is getting it done so that when we are done we have a better system then we have today. Making Eastern Washington into a New State does NOT address the problem of the Snake and Columbian Rivers. Merging Eastern Washington with Idaho would be a good first step, but making a new state would not be.

[superconnected]

125. See how republicans "get over it".

geesh.

Where do I sign to get rid of the red half?

[Roland99]

126. "People who think alike should be united" - baaaaa

Lots of sheep grazing out in that area?

[clayton72]

132. Is Dino Rossi being investigated for statuatory rape?

I've heard a rumor that Dino Rossi is being investigated for statuatory rape for taking liberties with the baby sitter... Is that true?!?
I know he's had a questionable past. Did biz with a lot of people who went to prison over some pretty sleazy real estate deals. Is this guy yet another repugnant-can sleaze ball crook?

Thanks,
Clayton

[Rainscents]

137. WA - GOP Senators Want Eastern Wash. As A State...

Olympia, Wash - If Washington state Sen.Bob Morton has his way, he'll soon be a resident and lawmakers in the 51st state of the United States.

Can you believe this moron!?!? What a cry baby.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A46087-2005Feb23.html?ABTest%3Dblurb_A&sub=AR

[liberalpragmatist]

138. I doubt it'll happen, but I say let em do it in exchange for DC

E. Washington gets statehood and DC gets statehood.

[Erika]

141. This region of Washington can't stand on their own

They are almost completetely supported by King county. They suck the blue areas dry.

[jmowreader]

142. This is what I say we do...

The only rationally-thought-out plans for Northwest-state reconfiguration call for a "Washidana"--eastern Washington, north Idaho and western Montana. This puts the Silver Valley, which is a huge mining district that bridges the Idaho-Montana line, into this area. It also puts the St. Joe and Coeur d'Alene National Forests into the new state. With those two items, Washidana will be reasonably self-supporting.

This pretty much screws South Idaho because they're dependent on the mining and logging money from the north. Root-crop agriculture is about as profitable as wheat farming.

Because of the way Washidana is populated, you're looking at MAYBE four electoral votes. And I wouldn't be surprised to see it go blue, in the way New York and California are reliably blue--both states have massive areas of red in them but the population centers are blue, and the population centers completely dominate the red areas. Washidana's population center is Spokane County--and Spokane is somewhat progressive. They even have a gay community. (It has been said that more people live in Spokane County than live in all of Idaho.)

Eastern Washington by itself wouldn't work, but Eastern Washington combined with north Idaho and western Montana would work fine.

Next question: state capitols. The obvious choice for a Washidana capitol would be Spokane--the major population center. The emotional choice would be somewhere more centralized, which means Wallace, Idaho. That could be fun because Wallace has a history to it--google "Oasis bordello."

[donheld]

139. See link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1255331

[saltpoint]

140. Yeah. They can have Eastern Washington & then WE --

-- get Austin as its own state, Madison as its own state, Boulder, Berkeley, DC, and so on.

We'll take a dozen cities that go reliably blue and they can have Eastern Washington.

[PhuLoi]

149. Oh please do! Cascadia to the west, Chlamydia to the east.

Then Cascadia seceeds from the U.S. and joins a free democratic nation: Canada!