(Schiavo Update:) Emergency Stay Issued in Right-To-Die Case

[truthpusher]

http://www.sierratimes.com/rss/newswire.php?article=/ap/20050222/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman&time=1109100447&feed=us

Emergency Stay Issued in Right-To-Die Case
Posted: Tuesday February 22,2005 - 11:27:27 am

By VICKIE CHACHERE, Associated Press Writer

DUNEDIN, Fla. - The case of a severely brain-damaged woman remained locked in a legal stalemate Tuesday after an appeals court cleared the way for her husband to remove her feeding tube only to see a judge promptly block the removal for at least another day.

The 2nd District Court of Appeal offered no specific instructions in a one-page mandate issued in the case of Terri Schiavo, who was left brain damaged 15 years ago. That meant her husband, Michael Schiavo, could order his wife's tube be removed.

But Pinellas Circuit Court Judge George Greer later issued an emergency stay blocking removal of the feeding tube until 5 p.m. EST Wednesday. Greer, who has been overseeing the long-standing dispute, scheduled a hearing on the case for Wednesday.

Terri Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, had sought the stay in hopes of keeping their daughter alive long enough for them to file additional legal pleadings. They are trying to oust their son-in-law as her guardian and seeking medical tests which might back their assertion that their daughter has some mental capabilities.

complete story:
http://www.sierratimes.com/rss/newswire.php?article=/ap/20050222/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman&time=1109100447&feed=us

[ClintonTyree]

1. Jebbie called in a favor......................

he'll consider this a personal loss (not her death, he could care less about her) but a slap to his ego. bush's don't like to be told, no!

[LiberalinNC]

2. "Jebbie" Never should have stepped over the line and gotten involved w/

this, this was/is a private matter between a brain dead woman and her husband.

Don't get me wrong, I feel for the parents, yet can understand where the hubby is coming from too. Nobody wins in this case!!!

[winston61]

16. You would not treat a dog like this

A house hold pet would be shown more compassion than this poor woman.

[LiberalinNC]

20. I agree, yet

I feel this woman is brain dead, and if that was me, I wouldn't want to be kept alive like that! Like I said, no one wins in this situation, it's really sad!

[Zuni]

55. Her husband is sleazy

he is trying to get her starved to death so he can have at her estate---instead of divorcing her and letting her parents take over.
He has already knocked up some other woman.

She is NOT brain dead---If you have seen film of her, she laughs, communicates on a childlike level and is far from being a vegetable.

[janx]

58. Where did you get this information?

I keep asking people this. The whole case has become an internet myth, with selected clips of the woman appearing over and over again. It's a travesty, in my opinion.

[Zuni]

64. link

http://www.terrisfight.org/

[janx]

70. Oh, OK. So you get it from the parents' web site.

Don't you think that might be biased? I feel for her parents, but I know that they are supported by the "right-to-life" movement, by some very wealthy organizations.

And frankly, I think they are being used.

[Zuni]

74. But does that alter the facts?

I don't care who is supporting this---this woman is not brain dead and her parents want to take care of her.

Her husband has another family now. That is not disputed.
This woman can communicate--there are many videos of this.
She is not on life support---she is fed through a tube though

Why do so many want to starve this woman just to spite their political adversaries?

[janx]

80. Her cerebral cortex is GONE.

Yes, there are reactions. That is the horrible part of all of this. But the woman's brain is not conscious. There are reflexive reactions of the brain, but that is all. The stagecraft that her parents and the political/religious groups have used is really disgusting.

Theresa Schindler Schiavo expressed her wishes to her husband and in-laws that she would never want to live in such a state. She was only 26 years old when most of her brain was disabled, and it's a pity she didn't have her wishes in writing. But her husband knew, and her in-laws knew. He is trying, against all kinds of odds, to carry out her wishes. He has gone through shitloads of money, has tried to rehabilitate her to enormous extents, and has tried to fend off the rabid religious right who insist that GOVERNMENT should decide the case and who have launched a full-blown and long-term effort to discredit and demonize him.

[Zuni]

87. No, not reactions or reflexes

She laughs and even speaks baby talk. That is not a 'reflex'.

She is brain damaged, but that does not mean she is deserving of starvation.

She is not on life support.

He went to civil court and won a huge settlement for her. So far, $400,000 of her medical care money has been spent on HIS laywer


He has not gone through 'shitloads'---look at the records of how he spent the money

From her parents site:
MYTH: Terri's Medical Trust fund has been used to care for her.
FACT: The following expenditures have been paid directly from Terri's Medical Trust fund, with the approval of Judge George Greer:
Summary of expenses paid from Terri’s 1.2 Million Dollar medical trust fund (jury awarded 1992)
NOTE: In his November 1993 Petition Schiavo alleges the 1993 guardianship asset balance as $761,507.50

Atty Gwyneth Stanley
Atty Deborah Bushnell
Atty Steve Nilson
Atty Pacarek
Atty Richard Pearse (GAL)
Atty George Felos
$10,668.05
$65,607.00
$7,404.95
$1,500.00
$4,511.95
$397,249.99

Other

1st Union/South Trust Bank
$55,459.85

Michael Schiavo
$10,

[janx]

89. I've seen the videos, and you are not telling the truth

about them.

She does not laugh and speak baby talk. Sorry. Her cortex is gone. That's what makes it so terrible.

[Zuni]

94. There is one video of her with her dad

And I tried to find it but couldn't---but he makes a comment about her mother and she laughs and 'answers' him when he asks a question, but what come out is unintelligible.

[janx]

99. I saw that one for the first time tonight.

Again, please look up cerebral cortex.

Also, please look at the first seconds of that clip.

[Modem Butterfly]

3. Just let her go!

This is getting to be like a bad comedy. Jesus Christ, people, she's a human being, not some kind of nerf ball!

[Dulcinea]

10. Hear, hear!

That poor woman. Give her some peace!

[Just Me]

30. So much selfishness and self-centeredness exploiting this woman.

I can't help that it makes me so angry. :mad:

It's not about Terri,...it's about self-interest. :cry:

I wish they would just leave her alone!!!

[ViceCop9]

4. Last ditch effort

which will eventually fail. Parents are putting off the inevitable.

[physioex]

5. Hello and welcome to DU......

:)

[Modem Butterfly]

6. He's gone

That was fast.

[physioex]

7. LOL....

Didn't occur that he might have been a freep. Good job mods....

[rockedthevoteinMA]

8. I thought the supreme court already ruled on this?

How does an appeals court over rule what the supremes ruled?

(disclaimer - don't know much about how the courts work...)

[moobu2]

9. The Supreme Court ruling

concerned "Terri's Law", the law Jeb Bush and the Florida Legislature pushed through at the request of right to life groups.

[donheld]

11. This woman is in a hell called Florida, Jeb is Satan

I feel very badly for this woman and her husband.

[rainbow4321]

14. He lost the right to use the word "husband"...

when he knocked up (not once, but twice) and moved in w/ another woman.

[donheld]

17. Like i said

she's in hell. I wish they'd let her be a peace.

[LiberalinNC]

21. Why hasn't this been in the news?

I have not heard this.

[janx]

53. That is a very good question. It has been thrown into the

"Michael Jackson" sort of news segments from time to time, which shows what a lack of critical judgment our media have.

The case is very important regarding precedent and regarding our culture.

[Modem Butterfly]

118. Please. His wife died fifteen years ago. What was he supposed to do?

Die too?

Schiavo knows that his wife wouldn't want to continue to exist like this. If he divorces her, her irrational parents will keep her around like a houseplant and continue to exploit her. He's trying to do right by this woman. But faulting him for moving on with his life after more than a decade? That's just petty.

[DS1]

12. If only so much consideration was put into state executions

:eyes:

[RevolutionStartsNow]

13. I support right-to-die, but has anyone seen the recent video of this woman

She appears to be quite aware of her surroundings, people coming in the room, etc. It certainly made me question my position in this case.

[karlrschneider]

15. I saw some pics from yesterday...and sorry but I see an empty room with

no lights on. That said, I wouldn't volunteer to pull the plug though.
It's a horrible situation from any angle.

[deek]

132. Shel Silverstein

A Light in the Attic

There's a light on in the attic.
Though the house is dark and shuttered,
I can see a flickerin' flutter,
And I know what it's about.
There's a light on in the attic.
I can see it from the outside,
And I know you're on the inside...lookin' out.

[moobu2]

18. It's an illusion. The video was edited from 4 or 5 hours of tape where

it's obvious she's got no cerebral cortex. Randall Terry had his "video guy" do the editing.

It's all a right to life scam and they've pumped hundreds of thousands of dallors into the effort and the parents and family are simply taking advantage of the opportunity atc...

[alcuno]

33. Her brain is mush. They've shown the xrays.

[LisaL]

38. Even it it's edited, it's still a real footage, it's not fake.

She looks like a severely disabled person to me.

[Zuni]

79. exactly

She might be brain damaged, but she is not brain dead

[Modem Butterfly]

120. Terri is dead

Her shell still has reflexes and spasms, but there's no one left inside. It's a cruel farce to leave her like this in the name of life.

[Zuni]

59. I'm sorry, but she is far from brain dead

I don't care if Republicans are the ones supporting this---this woman is clearly not brain dead and her parents want her alive. Her 'husband' is trying to get her estate and is shacked up with another woman.


There are plenty of videos showing her acknowledging her surroundings, and even laughing and speaking.

To starve a clearly aware, but disabled woman is inhuman

[janx]

72. How much do you know about science? n/t

[Zuni]

78. I only know basics

Science (except for astronomy) and math were my worst subjects---I was always better at History, Pyschology (a science too in a way), and English

I have read some about astronomy, but that is the only science I am any good at.

[janx]

84. I like your tagline.

Do yourself and all of us a favor and learn about the cerebral cortex of the human brain.
Weigh this knowledge with your faith and see what you come up with. I don't say this to lecture; it's only a suggestion.

[Zuni]

88. My faith is of no concern to you

Yes, I am a Christian. If you are trying to tie me in with the RW Christians, I suggest you stop now.
It is not my faith that prevents me from learning science---I am simply not good at it. I took biology, astronomy and earth science classes in college but am just plain not good at it, except for astronomy.
I am not well versed in medical science--but I have seen enough to convince me this woman is not brain dead.

[janx]

92. You misunderstand.

I am a Christian also, and that's exactly why I said what I did.

You can learn about the cerebral cortex very easily. Science is one thing, and faith is another. I respect that, and that's why I made the suggestion.

Check out the cerebral cortex.

[Zuni]

95. I apologize

I thought you were trying to put me in with the fundie crowd--I am NOT against science in any way, shape or form.
I do not believe creationism should be taught in public school either.
I am NOT one of them, although in this case I find I am siding with the Christian RWers
I am AGAINST them on the Marriage Amendment

[janx]

97. I never assumed that.

:hug:

[Zuni]

101. Thank you

Sorry, there are some on DU that associate Christian with Bush voter, freeper, etc. I always keep my guard up, I guess.
My tag is there because it represents what I consider 'true christianity'---helping those in need is what a Christian does. To vote for Bush would be unChristian---he hurts the needy with his policies.

:hug:

[davhill]

26. She is severely mentally handicaped

But I don't think this give any man, even her husband, the right to starve her to death. I am against the death penalty, period.

[LisaL]

36. Exactly. People who think she should be starved to death

should watch her video. She looks like seriously disabled woman to me, but she is not unconscious. How are you going to starve someone like that?

[Zuni]

60. I agree

She would feel the pain, and it would be inhuman to do that

[bettyellen]

125. that's a misconception...... do you have any idea how much

people who have been stomache tubed can suffer? they often choke on thier own regurgitations and have to have them vacummed out of their nasal and throat passages. unless they are concious enough to want the tube there and are fighting hard to get well, they yank on the tube and cause repeated complications and infections. because of this, they often have their hands tied down to their beds. it ain't as pretty as you think.
i gave my living will to a friend because god knows if anyone in my family would respect my wishes.

[janx]

71. Which video?

There are many clips taken out-of context.

[Modem Butterfly]

119. The tapes have been edited

Her parents are very manipulative.

[kdogg3232]

19. The moral of this sad story.......

...is to definitely make sure that you have you end of life wishes expressly written. After seeing what this poor woman and her entire family have gone through, everyone should make sure that their living will is in order. I think they are making a terrible mistake by letting the husband make the ultimate decision, however. It's my understanding that he'll inherit over a million dollars (from the victim's medical malpractice settlement) when his wife dies. He's also moved on and has two kids with another woman. I really don't think that someone who has such a HUGE financial interest in the death of his "former" wife should have a say in whether she lives or dies. It's a tragic situation, and personally, I wouldn't ever want to live like that. However, when you have a situation where her wishes are being disputed and they aren't in writing, then I don't think she should have her feeding tube removed...at least I wouldn't be able to make that tough decision to have the tube removed...also, couldn't they choose a better way to end her life than to starve her to death? It just seems a bit cruel to me.

[moobu2]

22. you're completely wrong on all factual counts

First of all, it was the Judge who acted as decision maker (proxy). Michael, the husband simply gave testimony like others did. in the end the judge was making the decision he thought Terri herself would make.

There is no money to inherit. Well over a year ago her trust fund had only $50,000 which is spent by now on medical and legal expenses. The fund was administered through the court.

Disconnecting feeding tubes is very common and there is no pain involved.

[kdogg3232]

23. So the husband doesn't really make any money when she dies?

...Well that makes me feel a lot better about this whole thing.

[Just Me]

29. This is SUPPOSED to be about Terri!!!

Our sense of humanity requires setting aside all other matters. *sigh* But, no,...money becomes a distraction from basic moral and human concerns.

Sometimes,...well,...often times, we can be too selfish to actually consider the wants of those who suffer most.

[LisaL]

39. There is no pain involved? And you would know that how?

Did anybody disconnect your feeding tube?

[Modem Butterfly]

121. She has nothing left to register pain

Her brain has been mostly replaced with spinal fluid. What's left is enough to move reflexively and occasionally spasm, that's it. There's nobody in there to feel pain.

[alcuno]

24. Welcome to DU, kdogg3232. The true horror is that her family are Catholic

When I heard this I could NOT believe it. The Church does not believe that feeding someone in a vegetative state is at necessarily humane or appropriate. When my mom told me that they are Catholic, I was in shock. This poor misguided family is being used by those with a radical right wing agenda and it is absolutely shameful.

As for the husband receiving money, you are incorrect. Please go back and check your facts. The better question might be to ask who is financing this essentially dead woman's parents in their crusade. I am sickened everytime I see them painting lipstick on a woman whose brain has turned to mush and then filming it.

[janx]

68. Such great points! This case is tarnishing American Catholics,

among others. I, too, noticed the make-up and the stagecraft. Your comments are so important.

[moobu2]

25. Oh, although it is very important to memorialize your wishes in writing

although it is very important to memorialize your wishes in writing and everyone should do that, it isn't legally required to have life support removed in most states as long as the incapacitated person has made oral statements about what they would do.

In Florida, previous State Supreme Court rulings made it clear a living will was not necessary and requiring one would risk not honoring someone's right to make their own medical decisions. The FSC and the statutes say that as long as it can be proven by the "clear and convincing evidence" standard, that life support can be withdrawn if that's what the patient would have wanted.

[kdogg3232]

28. That's interesting...

I still don't know how I feel in a situation where the families want two totally different things and there aren't any written wishes. It's obviously a tough situation to have to decide.
I'm still sort of skeptical about the whole money thing. Do you know if there's a life insurance policy, or anything like that?

[Just Me]

31. Why do you keep focusing on MONEY rather than TERRI?

:shrug:

Would you want to live that way?

:shrug:

Would you want your family to be burdened with the cost of keeping you alive,...that way?

:shrug:

[kdogg3232]

34. Definitely not..

....I would not want to live that way at all. The only reason I ask about the money is because, to me, something doesn't add up. Her husband has already moved on...he has two children with another woman. So, why doesn't he just move on with his life and let the parents take care of their daughter? It's very possible that he loves Terri so much and he just wants to see her wishes carried out. It just looks a little suspicious to me...I guess I'm just being cynical. That's why I'd like to know if there is some other reason the husband is taking such a strong stand in this (ie he has a financial interest)...just curious, I guess.

[Modem Butterfly]

122. He can't divorce her

His wife would be at the mercy of her manipulative parents. He's trying to honor her wishes despite the lies and slander of the Xian Taliban and the anti-choice movement. He's a brave man and a good husband.

[Zuni]

66. Terri's family want her alive

I think the worse burden would be having her die...

[alcuno]

32. The courts have already ruled that the husband makes the choice,

not her parents. They are the ones being funded by extremist organizations in this country. Look at the monetary motivation of her family.

[Zuni]

82. But he is now shacked up with another woman

and has kids with her.

He is her husband in name only. Now why doesn't he divorce her and leave her to the parents.

[LeftyMom]

105. If your spouse had died

and you had formed a new relationship and had children, and suddenly your deceased spouse's parents wanted to dig the body up, would you let them? Why should he allow them to go against her wishes just because he's got a new family?

[LisaL]

107. What kind of nonsense is this, and what does it have to do with

Terri? She is not dead, and nobody wants to dig her body up. If he has a new family, how can he still be considered Terri's husband? Bigamy is not allowed in this country.

[janx]

113. She's as close to brain dead as they come, Lizzy.

If I were twenty years younger, I might believe as you do. But I am not.

[LeftyMom]

117. She's hardly alive

She can't think or feel, the part of the brain that does those things isn't there. Leaving her in that state against her wishes is as profane a violation of human dignity as digging up a corpse.

Impregnanting another woman doesn't invalidate a marriage and isn't illegal. Generally it's a bad idea, but he can't carry out her wishes if he divorces Terri and is no longer her next of kin.

[moobu2]

35. There have been accusations by right to life groups about life insurance

but they have never offered any proof and everyone denies it.

The court has all the records though, and every decision made for Terri has to be approved so if there were any financial motive (such as life insurance) it would have been brought up in court.

Right to life groups have spent a huge amount of time and money on this case setting up websites to spread disinformation so it isn't really surprising a lot of people might have facts a little wrong.

These groups have accused the husband of attempted murder and causing Terri's medical condition also (among many other false accusations).

And the Parents basically said in court that they don't care what Terri would have wanted and even if they knew she wouldn't want to live this way, they would force it on her.

[Zuni]

65. She won a lot of money in a court case

I think Michael Schiavo wants to keep as much of it as possible without spending it on Terry

[Modem Butterfly]

123. He IS spending it on Terry

Who do you think is paying for her care? Who do you think is paying for her legal fight?

[Just Me]

27. My personal opinion about this poor woman is that,...

,...her parents are being ridiculously selfish.

Damnit!!! I wish they would let her go.

Who the fuck would want to live like that? Not me,...not anyone I know or have ever known.

[LisaL]

37. Yea, but you probably would change your mind in a hurry if

they were yanking that feeding tube from you leading you to starve to death over several week period.

[moobu2]

40. It wouldn't be possible to be concerned about it because

Terri Schiavo doesn't have a cerebral cortex, making awareness and consciousness impossible. In other words she's basically already dead. Terri does have a brain stem which controls reflexes so she can breath, randomly moan and groan, her heart beats, etc... but she's not aware in the least bit.

[LisaL]

42. Then what is it to you if she stays in this state? If it makes her

parents happy? I don't care if they are supported by a pro-life group. It's their daughter, after all. If she doesn't feel anything, then she doesn't suffer, does she?

[moobu2]

45. It doesnt matter what you think or right to life people think or

what the parents think. It was determined through the legal process that Terri herself wouldn't want to be force fed in a vegetative state.

Also, Terri wasn't or isn't a child, she's 40+ years old and was married. The parents cant force medical decisions upon her against her wishes, they aren't even her legal next of kin.

What if it would make the parents happy if all her limbs were cut off and she was vegetative and in extreme pain and had to be on a respirator and she had previously said she would not want to live like that? you think they would have the right to force that on her?

[moobu2]

47. The reason I asked the questions about her limbs being amputated is

The family testified in court that it would bring them joy to keep force feeding her body even if the knew she wouldn't want it, even if she had to have her limbs amputated, even if she were in pain, even if she had to be on a respirator and give her medical treatment knowing it was against her will....that it would make them happy to do that.

Here's a link to Father Murphy's court testimony where all that was brought out.

Click "open" when prompted

[janx]

61. It's not about her parents, and it's not about her husband, and

it's not about us, or the right to life religion, or the movement for the disabled. It's about HER.

Is that so hard to understand?

[bettyellen]

129. my dear friend- who was completetly concious begged her

family to stop with the feeding tubes + respirators, the resusitations every time her heart failed,and they ignored her for years.
eventually she pretended to be unable to react or speak with them, because she was pretty pissed off and she felt she had a better chance of them letting go already if they thought that she was mentally completely gone.
she had no hope of walking or living outside an institution ever again, and i think she should have had her wishes respected. Who the hell wants to be tied down to a bed 24/7? That the hospital will pander to a family member who "knows better" than the patient themselves is really disturbing.

[moobu2]

41. The main reason many people have the facts wrong

on this case is..The parents and right to life groups lost in the courts where the law trumps all emotion and where both parties can give whatever factual evidence they have to support their positions..So, the Parents and RTL groups lost there and chose early on to go the public relations route. They conducted a vicious deceitful campaign to win public support and in doing so spread the most disgusting lies about the husband.

The husband didn't conduct a similar public relations campaign so many of the false accusations went unanswered, leaving a lot of people with a false impression of the facts.

During the court hearings however, the facts were obviously solidly behind the husband because he won virtually every court room hearing.

[LisaL]

43. Well, you don't seem to have your facts straight either.

Her husband went to court and sued her Drs for malpractice. At that time, he said he wants to be a nurse just so he can take care of Terri. He had never mentioned Terri wished to die at the time of the civil case that awarded him $$$$.
Now, ask yourself, why didn't he say it when it would really mean something? Why didn't he mentioned Terri won't live long? Why did he say he wants to take care of Terri, never mentioning Terri would want to die?

[moobu2]

44. Where did I say anything about that?

If you accuse me of saying something that isn't true, at least follow up with what that was, thanks.

As far as The law suit and him going to nursing school to learn to care for Terri. Michael loved Terri and thought she could recover somewhat like a lot of people do when faced with something like this. As time went on and he became more educated and faced the reality of Terri's medical condition, it became clear to him what she would have wanted.
I cant see what the point is in Michael telling anyone she wouldn't want to be on life support when he thought she could recover somewhat early on.

It's a ridiculous point really and comes directly from the many right to life disinformation websites.

[LisaL]

49. Yes, he is one hell of a guy!

During a civil suit, it came out that he had Terri's pet cats euthanized. I mean, if you think he believed she would recover, why did he had her cats killed? Didn't he think she would ask where her cats were? Anyhow, he then said her mother told him to have the cats euthanized. He is a Prince, no doubt of it. I think he wishes he could have done the same thing he did to her cats to Terri a long time ago.

[moobu2]

50. Terri's mother asked that Terri be removed from the house she

her husband and Michael were sharing because she said having her there made her uncomfortable so it wouldn't surprise me at all if she also asked that the cats be removed as well.

[LisaL]

51. Not removed, killed. He had the cats euthanized. Poor defenseless pets-

killed. That should tell anyone what kind of person he is.

[moobu2]

57. Michael had the cats put to sleep because Terri's mother wanted them

out of the house, therefore, we should force feed Terri Schiavo against her wishes?

[LisaL]

77. Against her wishes? Or because of his wishes?

I bet he wishes it was as easy to get rid of Terri as it was to get rid of her cats.

[Zuni]

81. agreed

I am on your side. This guy is a dirtbag.

Why doesn't he just divorce her and let her parents worry about her?

[janx]

62. Where are you getting this information? You are citing every

internet rumor that has been created about this case. Where are you finding this?

[janx]

56. YEP.

And it worked, even among some thoughtful, caring, smart people.

[The_Nick]

46. I really wish...

I really wish that this woman would either die or recover, for her own sake, regardless of the feeding tube. The whole thing is really disgusting and morbid. Needless to say, from now on I will be carrying around in my wallet a DNR statement with these worst case, brain-dead scenario situations on it. I feel bad for everyone involved, even the stupidly self-absorbed parents (and possibly husband as well).

[moobu2]

48. LOL

[daleo]

52. Imagine if her parents were right, and she did have some awareness.

What a 15 year hell this must have been. I was involved in watching a relative die painfully in bed for 15 days recently, and that was bad enough.

I would think that anyone who had faith in God would let her go. Unless they assume she didn't have a chance to be saved, and therefore their daughter is headed for Hell. That must be the worst thing about being ultra-religious; believing that most of your loved ones are headed for eternal torment.

[Zuni]

54. She is clearly not brain dead

and her parents want her to live. She is abvle to communicate on a level like a babies---I have seen video of her laughing and attempting to speak
I think it is intolerable that she could be starved to death because her husband wants her $$$$---over a million dollars

[moobu2]

63. She has no higher brain so how could she laugh or communicate?

Just exactly how is that possible?


There is no money to be had after she dies. Matter of fact, Michael and Terri's attorney hasn't been pain in over a year...all the money is gone.


That's just a bunch of lies spread by the parents and right to life people. Remember, the end always justifies the means to people like this so you cant believe anything they say.

[Zuni]

67. I have seen films of her laughing and trying to speak

Obviously she is more than a vegetable.

To starve her to death is inhuman.
I have no doubt she would suffer, because she is not in a coma or in a vegetative state

[moobu2]

69. Oh you mean that video Randall Terry had edited for the parents

Randall Terry (yes Randall Terry from operation rescue) had that video edited down from 4 or 5 hours of video for the parents to give the effect Terri was aware and purposefully reacting to her parents. It's basically a typical right to life lie like all the other lies they tell.

[janx]

75. Which video was this?

I'm just curious. I saw a carefully edited one today that made me sick.

[moobu2]

90. I believe there is only one video

That video was secretly taped by the parents against court orders. They then turned it over to Randall Terry who had his video and public relations guys edit it to produce something that would give an appearance of Terri reacting to her parents. It was meant to illicit a strong emotional appeal to the faithful , which it did I'm sure. It's pure propaganda.

[Zuni]

76. But she still communicates on it

I'm sorry---I do not care if Richard Nixon is involved---this woman is not brain dead.

Even if we haven't seen 4 hours, those 5 minutes are enough for me.

[moobu2]

83. Terri isn't brain dead because she still has a functioning brain stem

Terri's entire cerebral cortex however is gone and has been replaced with spinal fluid.

People with no cortex but a function brain stem can give the appearance of consciousness but it's an illusion.

People like this can sleep and wake up, make sudden noises, moans and groans, randomly jerk and flail around at times, they breath, their heart beats and startle at sudden movement but all that is completely disconnected from the thought process.

They cant feel, think, have emotions, remember anything know anything at all..they're basically already dead but their bodies are being force fed which keeps it functioning....the person is dead though.

[janx]

86. Which video?

?

She communicates on which video?

[moobu2]

93. The video the parents gave Randall Terry

Randall Terry then gave copies to the media etc...

I guess there's only one although there may be different versions because it's edited from 4 or 5 hours of tape.

[janx]

98. I ask the question because I saw one newer one tonight that

really bothered me more than the rest (if that's possible). The title of it is "Conversation With Terri."

Have you seen it? If you haven't, you should, particularly the first seconds of the clip.

[moobu2]

100. I havent seen it no

What was so unusual about it?

[janx]

103. It wasn't unusual--it was clipped out of context, etc.

It consisted of Terri's father putting blinking Christmas tree lights in front of her eyes and then trying to converse with her. She made some exclamatory noises and then groaned loudly, as usual.

But what the guy said or how he said it, especially in the first seconds of the clip, caught my attention.

http://hometown.aol.com/GordonWWatts/myhomepage/ConversationWithTerri.wmv

Try that one.

[janx]

106. IT IS IMPORTANT THAT PEOPLE LOOK AT THE FIRST FEW

SECONDS OF THIS DOWNLOAD.

Sorry for the caps, but please look very critically and consider the whole thing very carefully.

[moobu2]

109. I see exactly what you're talking about....it's very deceitful isnt it?

[janx]

110. !!! He knows the blinking lights in her face will get

some brain stem reflex, so he shoves those in her face and then begins "talking" to her.

God forgive me for being so judgmental, but you and I see what we see! I've been playing the first second or so over and over, and it's clear that he wants the videographer to catch it.

[moobu2]

112. Wow, that was very observant of you...good catch.

It's typical of the thought process with people like this, in that "the end justifies the means". Whatever they can say or do no matter how deceitful is ok to them. Thanks for pointing that out.

[janx]

114. I don't want to judge. But what I see in that clip makes me sick.

!
Does he want to believe, or is he a bullshitter?

[moobu2]

116. He's a liar, sorry.

I know you want to give the benefit of doubt but I've seen them tell so many lies...it's very intentional.

[bluedog]

124. VIDEO.you won't see on terris site

Well, here's a "snippet" from the video tapes that you'll never see on the Schindler's website.

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/webspecials03/schiavo/video/video2.shtml

By all means, as Bethany says so redundantly, Look at the LINK! Watch Mary Schindler perform.

Edited to add original SPT context link ( http://www.sptimes.com/2003/webspecials03/schiavo/ )

and a note that you will need "Quicktime" to view the video, which you can download at this original link.

[janx]

131. I can't open this for some reason. And I have Quicktime. n/t

[Erika]

73. Terri left long ago.

There is only a black hole where the thinking part of her brain was. It has filled with water. Don't be conned. Terri cannot feel pain, respond or anything else. Her eye jerks are due to electrical impulses from the brain stem.

Hospital records show that visits by her parents were rare and far between until the far right-wing prolifers gave them their 15 minutes in fame (or infamy). They in exchange prostituted Terri's condition and made her a poster child.

Her husband has the legal right/responsibility to make decisions and I think he's done one heck of a job. The easy road for him to take would have been to just walk off. He hasn't and I congratulate him.

[moobu2]

85. Exactly and very well said.

Also, the husband was offered a considerable amount of money, $700,000 I think, to walk away but didn't. If he were motivated by money, he surely would have accepted that since all the other money was pretty much used up.

[Erika]

91. I believe in the marital contract

They chose each other to make these difficult decisions in these situations. They entrusted each other with this right/responsibility.

[janx]

96. Michael Schiavo has more than kept his end of that contract.

I don't normally pay attention to the pop culture court cases, but this one is so important, and that guy has put up with so much. I've been tempted to send him flowers or a book or something, but I'm afraid he has gotten so many threats that I'm hesitant to do so.

That's how bad things have gotten.

[LisaL]

108. What marital contract allows a husband to get himself

a new lady and have kids with that lady? Any contract should be considered null and void because of that, IMO. Clearly, he did not follow "till death do us part", did he?

[moobu2]

115. Terri (the person) is dead...it's only her body being force fed

Her heart is beating, she breaths but there isn't a person there anymore. Terri died when her cortex died.

Since you did not know Terri Schiavo when she was here, you shouldn't attempt to second guess her marriage decisions much less her medical decisions as well.

She may have been perfectly happy to know her husband was starting a family and attempting to carry out her wishes. He was pretty young when all this happened and lifes short.

[kskiska]

102. As I've posted before re: "starving to death"

Ron Reagan asked his right-to-life guest if she'd ever been at a deathbed. She obviously hadn't. Ron said, "Well, I have, and people who are at the end of their lives never eat or drink. Ever."

My mother "starved to death." It was her choice. She had a Living Will. She was given morphine and did not appear to suffer.

[bettyellen]

127. thank you, i'm a little tired of hearing from people who have

no clue. sorry you had to go through that, but good for you for doing the right thing.

[ziggie]

104. Who says starvation is not painful?

Any doctor will tell you that the starvation process is very painful and envokes great suffering. Will the posters who declare that Terri will not feel pain while dying of starvation because of her present physical state, please tell me how you know that? How many folks in a damaged physical state have been starved to death, only later to get in touch with you to tell you that they did not suffer.

This woman is not brain dead. Read the definition of brain dead. Yes she is severly brain damaged and has no quality of life as we define it. But none of us know what she is hearing, thinking, feeling or understanding. We can only guess - we do not know. In that case, the best advice is ...when in doubt, DON'T! I am willing to bet that everyone who is in favor of removal of this tube is against the death penalty if for no other reason than because many on death row might actually be innocent --- In those cases, you want us to act on the side of caution.

Forget politics - get the facts. She is not on typical life support. She breathes, Her heart beats - she is fed artificially. SHe will die without this nourishment.

[moobu2]

111. You dont know what you're talking about obviously

Terri isn't brain dead in the strictest sense of the term because she still has a stem but her entire upper brain (cerebral cortex) is gone and replaced with spinal fluid. No consciousness or recovery is possible, because the cortex cannot reconstitute itself.

She cant think, feel pain, have emotions, know whats going on around her...she can not think at all and never will again.

Feeding tubes are commonly withdrawn from patients and most people lose the interest in food as they approach death. It's a natural process where the body prepares itself for dying. It's LESS painful that way and we do not immediately insert a feeding tube when that process starts.


There's no politics involved in my decisions here, I have no idea where you got that...maybe from free republic?

[ziggie]

134. Apples to Oranges

moobu2

I am sorry that I was not able to check this thread earlier today. I hope you get the chance to read my reply. I did not address YOU in particular. I made my comment to any poster who had stated that starvation was not painful.

I am aware that most people dying from terminal illnesses lose their appetite and eventually do not eat at all as a part of the dying process, and I do not think at that point we should insert a feeding tube. However, I do not know, and neither does anyone else, that Terri would not eat if she had not lost the ability to do so. They are not feeding her simply to keep her alive. They are feeding her because she cannot feed herself. I do not think the comparison is equal. Also, You do not know - you cannot know - whether or not she feels emotion because the source of emotions is not fully understood.

I find it telling that you would accuse me of freeping just because I do not agree with anyone who states with certainty that she will not suffer pain if she dies from starvation. I am not a member of the free republic and I am not a member of any of their websites. Actually I know very very little about free republic and cannot see where your namecalling adds anything to this discussion.

[bettyellen]

126. Nonsense, any doctor won't tell you that..... they base their

conclusions on observations of the patient, and a lot of chronic terminally ill slowly wean themselves and get weaker and fade away quietly with out exhibiting signs of discomfort. of course i'm talking about pallitive care (often in a hospice for the terminally ill). something people who are enamoured of tubes might know little about, becasue they would not consider it. stomache tubes can be the least humane solution in some cases. been there more than once.

[MARALE]

128. You are right

My Mom had MS for many years and last year she finally died from it. The reason she died is that her muscles could not swallow any more. She died of starvation because her body knew it was time. Her sisters and mother are all nurses, they said to put in a feeding tube would be cruel to do and it would keep her body from doing the natural thing. She was brain-dead as well from her disease and I knew she would not want to be kept alive a few weeks longer in that state. This brings back memories as she got to pass away in peace and naturally. I would never want to be kept alive by a feeding tube.
Terry's husband says the same about Terry, no person would want to be held in a state like that, this is just for the parents, not for her. They are selfish and not letting her die with dignity. I am glad she does not know what she is now.

[bettyellen]

130. I'm happy that you were well informed enough to do the right

thing.
I see a lot of ignorance here...people need to get informed before they decide to put their loved ones through years of pain without hope for recovery or a meaningful life..

[soup]

133. UPDATE: Pinellas judge extends stay, DCF jumps into Schiavo case

CLEARWATER, Fla. (AP) -- A state circuit judge Wednesday extended until 5 p.m. Friday the stay keeping Terri Schiavo's feeding tube intact, saying he needed time to consider more arguments from her parents from her parents that she should undergo new medical tests and that her husband should be dismissed as her guardian.

Meanwhile the Florida Department of Children & Families moved to intervene in the legal battle over the life of the brain-damaged woman.

Details of the agency's involvement in the case were not immediately available; Circuit Judge George Greer denied a DCF attorney an opportunity to speak at the afternoon hearing.

George Felos, who represents Terri Schiavo's husband Michael, criticized the DCF move, saying it "reeks of the intervention of politics into the case and is an affront to the court."

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FL_BRAIN_DAMAGED_WOMAN_FLOL-?SITE=FLPET&SECTION=STATE&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

DCF?