Horse-Slaughtering Law Alarms Activists

[Rose Siding]

RENO, Nev. Feb 24, 2005 — For the first time in more than a generation, the mustang the very symbol of the American West can be slaughtered for horsemeat.

In December, Congress repealed the 34-year-old ban on the slaughter of the wild horses that run free across the West. The move has brought a powerful backlash from activists, who want to reinstate full protection for the mustangs.
...
A bill to reinstate the slaughter ban was introduced in Congress last month....

BLM officials said the agency is reaching out to animal protection groups and is optimistic that before the summer, it will find new homes for the 8,900 horses and burros that could be subject to slaughter.
...
The issue has dogged the Interior Department and Congress since Nevada's Velma Johnson, also known as Wild Horse Annie, and a legion of schoolchildren persuaded Congress to outlaw the use of motor vehicles to hunt the mustangs in 1959. That was followed by the Wild Horse and Burro Protection Act of 1971.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=528978

[SomewhereOutThere424]

1. This just in...

The GOP has allowed the slaughter of anything that is not itself.

</inevitable>

[Blue to the bone]

2. Mustangs, burros, cattle, and sheep should all be removed....

........from Federal lands of the American West. These animals are not native there and do immense damage to the environment.

Man's activities too should be strictly controlled on Federal lands.

[ashmanonar]

3. O.o

caucasians don't really belong here either then. all the people here before were native americans, (who were once native asians...). would you be willing to leave and give america back to the native americans?

well?

if not, don't be too hasty to do anything to the environment. they weren't there before the spaniards, but now they are. they've been included in the ecosphere, and taking them out would be as damaging as, say, our being put into this ecosphere.

how about we leave the environment the way it is?

[Broca]

4. "Wild" Horses do not fit in ecologically in all areas.

I do some hiking in wild horse country. Two years ago I did a 100 mile cross country loop in Northern Nevada and southern Oregon. The Sheldon Wildlife Refuge is overrun with horses. In the fall of 2003 they were to remove 250 of the estimated 1000 excess animals. Springs, waterholes, vegetation, etc. were impacted to the extent that it looked like in a concentrated cow yard, stockyard, complete with brown "water" mud and dwindling resources for other life. Rounding them up, transporting them and auctioning them off is extremely expensive. Perhaps some resources should be put into birth control for these hoofed vermin. Until then, eating them cannot be much different then the process of eating cattle, elk, moose, etc.

[ashmanonar]

5. i agree that horses shouldn't have been brought here by the spaniards.

but what are you gonna do about it now? why can't we just let nature take care of them?

if there were predators there to BE predators, we wouldn't have this problem. but the wolves in america were wiped out, bc farmers got trigger happy in the 1900's.

our stewardship of america has been one fuckup after another, hasn't it? the buffalo: nearly gone. starting to grow back again, slowly. wolves: gone. they're only in a few of the northern states now, where there aren't many people. coyotes: coming back, but now they're eating dogs. so people go and kill them again. deer: overpopulating, bc the wolves were gone. the forests of the northeast? gone. lake erie is getting shallow, pretty soon it'll be a big sandpit...

one thing after another. and bushco isn't making things any better.

[NickB79]

15. Look at Australia's rabbit problem

"why can't we just let nature take care of them?"

Nature will take care of them, eventually. The problem is that they will do long-term, if not permanent damage to the ecosystem before they die off. They will eat every last bit of vegetation, drink and befoul every last watering hole, before they allow themselves to starve to death. It can take CENTURIES before these ecosystems return to normal. Simply look at the environmental devastation caused by rabbits in Australia: fertile grasslands were turned to deserts as every blade of grass was consumed.

"if there were predators there to BE predators, we wouldn't have this problem. but the wolves in america were wiped out, bc farmers got trigger happy in the 1900's."

Wolves were a secondary predator in the Southwest before man arrived here. The primary predator was the cougar. Cougars are still fairly common in many areas of the Southwest, and do frequently attack and kill wild horses. The problem is that wild horses are very hard to kill. They stay out of the rocky areas where cougars like to roam, and are very fast and observant of their surroundings. And since we're talking about predators native to N. America's Southwest, humans have hunting there in one form or anothe for over 20,000 yrs. Humans, IMO, ARE native predators in N. America. Whether they use bows, spears, or guns to kill their prey makes no difference at this point.

[ashmanonar]

20. yep...

they also used cliffs. (remember the old native american stories, about hunting buffalo off cliffs?)

and there's at least some evidence to indicate that the north-american immigrants (near the end of the ice age) were the ones who hunted the mammoth out of existence.

[NickB79]

23. I'm not suggesting hunting the horses to extinction

Merely to maintain a sustainable population so that they never reach the point where they are starving to death from overgrazing.

[ashmanonar]

24. no, i know.

some people on this thread just sound that way.

as was said further down the thread: compared to cattle, the horses aren't even really a problem.

on edit: i also meant to make the point that humans throughout history have rarely thought ahead about what they actually did when they hunted herds of animals incessantly. humans have a habit of destroying their own environment.

[SomewhereOutThere424]

26. Well

If we could introduce species that are so very dangerous and alter the environment to an admitted decay to the point of inevitable desert, how do we then claim to be knowledgable enough about how to fix it?

Australia DOES have an animal problem. They have a problem handling 'problematic' animals. They cited national geographic to do a sympathy article for them calling animals no better than 'pollution' (see 'alien invaders' of their recent issue). The problem in australia isn't the animals, it's the fact they've created genetic warfare to deal with them. If releasing animal specific genetic diseases into an environment is not apt to cause its destruction, I don't know what will. I've never seen how 'we' fit into the environment if we're so apt to destroy it and seperate it to the point we see it no better than 'our yard' and other parts of materialistic possession.

I know that was a bit harsh, but bringing australia into it hit a chord with me. Those are a bunch of people raised by, in their ancestors, by convicts. They have no real way to know how to deal with the environment and it was their problem, not the animals'. Bludgeoning, electrocuting, 1080 poisoning them (a poison which takes hours to kill), genetically altering them and using diseases to sterelize or genocide them is not my idea of 'fixing' the environment. No better than a bunch of gun toting yahoos wanting to kill things, I feel bad for the animals going extinct, but I do not think even a 'ferral' animal should be one of them to go extinct. I think the only animal that needs to go extinct to save the environment is man...and being not a single human being would vote for that, I think we should back off from believing we have the knowledge or the right to 'fix' it.

[doodadem]

6. Hoofed Vermin?

It sounds like we either have some western cattlemen among us, or people that have never been around horses.
Eating horses is like eating a dog or a cat. Horses are companion animals--not meant for human consumption. If they are too populous in some areas, it is because they have been herded onto smaller and smaller rangelands--mostly by cattlemen that think they are competing for grass on public lands (I ask you--which is more of a national treasure: the dwindling wild mustang, or a big fat beef steer?). The mustang's situation reminds me of the Native Americans at the end of the last century--considered vermin and in the way of progress, they were herded onto reservations and stripped of their pride. At least we didn't decide they were edible.
I know a number of people who have adopted both mustangs and burros with great success as riding mounts and pets.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Runcible Spoon]

8. your post will probably get deleted but...

I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree! cattle do much more harm to the environment than mustangs. We should manage the herds' size, not kill them for profit. I can't believe we pour hundreds of millions of public and private dollars into art museums such as the MOMA but we can't spare a few bucks to save a national treasure, am emblem of American free spirit. Nothing is purely indigenous if you go far enough back into history. People can be so cold and selfish.

[lonestarnot]

9. Hooved vermin like satan/bushitler not horses! n/t

[Colorado Blue]

11. Hoofed vermin? Jesus. nt

[Megahurtz]

17. Lol!

:7 Perfect.

[ashmanonar]

19. heh.

i aim to please. :D

[Occulus]

13. Perhaps there wouldn't be so many of those....

.....if we hadn't killed off most of the wolves.

Wouldn't any of those animals you listed also be potential food for wolf packs?

[not fooled]

10. why do I suspect...

...that the desire to slaughter mustangs has everything to do with propping up cattle interests (= * contributors) and nothing to do with protecting the environment?

The point of repealing the ban is only to substitute cattle for horses. Damage to the environment is inconsequential to these bastards.

I remember hearing that the cowards pushed this through in the dead of night.

Geez, I wonder what all the cowboy-wannabe *-lovin' horse owners (and there are a lot of 'pukes in the horse industry, especially in the shit-kicking end e.g. cutting, reining, rodeo) think of this one???

* doesn't have any problem exploiting the symbols of the Old West for political purposes, but par for the course, it's all phony and for show.

No real desire to preserve the nation's heritage, of which these horses are a part.

:eyes:

[Colorado Blue]

12. There are something like 4.1 million cattle grazing out west

on public lands. There are perhaps 25,000 or so horses and burros. It absolutely does NOT compute as anything but Burns pandering to his cattlemen constituents, as well as a few folks who are out drilling for gas, so forth. The horses bug them too. They also do not like bears, wolves, eagles, or paying taxes or fees on the land and resources they exploit. They do not like environmental science either although it might help protect their own damn livestock from drought and poor grazing, which currently they blame on THE HORSES.

I'm beginning to think everybody bugs these guys except their damn bottom line.

The horses HAVE been there for several centuries and they are a part of our spirit, part of the Native American heritage also.

What is maybe even worse than the cruelty of the Burns legislation is way is was sneaked into the Appropriations Bill at the last moment.

It ought to be absolutely illegal to slip things like this, totally unrelated, off the wall stuff, into bills without public notification or an opportunity to debate.

This is SOME democracy.

[doodadem]

14. Sad , but true

I learned in this very forum that our friend Harry Reid, Democrat Minority Leader, co-sponsored this "midnight" addendum to the appropriations bill, along with his Repug fellow Nevada senator. I can't imagine why he would do this, other than for the cattlemen in that state. It has seriously made me rethink my approval of him.........
And another thing, as someone that has studied both horse and Native American history since childhood, if those first few horses had not escaped from the first Spaniards, and gone on to breed, you would have never had the great horse tribes of Native peoples. The horse enriched their lives immensely, and gave them mobility they'd never had previously. Horses were immortalized in art, dance, and song. One of the ways the American Army came to subdue the tribes, was to slaughter their horses.

[Colorado Blue]

16. I wrote Reid SUCH a letter when I heard about that - it was

right after the fact. I could NOT believe it.

Subsequently he has earned back some respect but it rankles - bigtime.

Meanwhile I hope people will keep pressuring Congress on this issue. If anybody is damaging the range it is the cattle and extraction industries and they're receiving huge subsidies and tax relief to boot.

And yes - HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF MUSTANGS were murdered by the army, to subdue the tribal people but also at the behest of the cattlemen. The movie Hidalgo touches on this. Even if the movie isn't exactly factual that part is tragically true.

Another aspect to this: apparently BILLIONS in royalties, which are supposed to go to the N.A. tribes for extraction of resources - oil, gas, etc., go missing EVERY YEAR. I don't know much about this but am going to do some research. The total, over decades, could be enormous. That is appalling. The people living on the reservations have been ripped off long enough.

[Mugweed]

28. Me too

Maybe being lied to for so long makes me distrust every "news" article I see or hear, but I also immediately thought of the fact that we need to slaughter these horses to keep green pastures for the cattle we need to slaughter. So now wild horses are a threat to McDonalds and the like? Protect our endangered beef?

[Catchawave]

18. It's politics as usual....

The BLM has a long history sleeping with the cattlemen. There's much on the internet about this, especially killing off natural predators to protect the cattle.

[tom_paine]

21. Actually, now more than ever the Mustangs symoblize Amerika

It is only fitting now that the Old Republic of America is dead, so should one of the the free independant symbols (unofficial) be slaughtered.

I find a sort of gruesome symmetry.

I wonder if future generations of Imperial Subjects will dine on Bald eagle Fricassee.

It wouldn't surprise me if they did, and it would be poetic symmetry, as well.

[DeusIrae]

22. Soylent Green or A Modest proposal

As a 10+ year vegetarian and proponent of the sacred nature of all animal rights. I must say that I am overwhelmed with the ironic duplicity of our culture.
Large Hog, Beef and Bird operations are unethical, wasteful, dangerous and extremely damaging to our environment.
I have much less of a problem with any meat eater who hunts for their meat from overcrowded populations, than with your average McAmerican blindly consuming processed flesh, the rendering of which would sicken anyone.
I would much rather the noble Wild horses of the plains run free and risk the gun of predatory man, than to be captured and essentially domesticated for their protection.
What do ya'll think?
Linc
:D

[ashmanonar]

25. my only problem with hunting now

is that hunters use long-range high-powered rifles that can hit from a half-mile away. if hunters were restricted to bows or spears, or some such similarly "primitive" weapon, people would really think twice about hunting these creatures. i imagine horses would be a bitch to catch and kill with a spear.

[SomewhereOutThere424]

27. Swift kills are good and bad

With guns they can put them out of their misery, but when you don't hear something screaming in agony it's easier to kill it with no remorse or even acknowledging the danger. I don't agree with the arrows because they're far too painful for the animal (especially when you get these wing-nuts who will 'fix' the arrow to make it far more serrated and painful for the sheer sake of 'fixing' it). I do however agree things would be much better with closer range weapons or more primitive weapons. Then it would be REAL hunting. Hunting is when you need to stalk, when you get close, when you feel the rush of knowing either can die, and one will. To claim that comes with a gun is like claiming an airplane view of a country is visiting it. Very far off...

I'd think it'd be better off for those who like hunting and want to feel a real thrill and both the animals hunted if they reverted from the use of such a complacent weapon like a gun. Weapons, even if I don't like causing pain, were a work of art....a man put their soul into their swords in those times, they were their friends. Sure it sounds silly, especially with today's culture...but back then the knowledge that a simple piece of hammered metal could save your life really brought an acknowledgement to the whole ordeal. Now...it's almost like the kid they pay attention to to make them feel better but are ashamed of them and they hide them in the closet when company arrives. There's no bond in hunting anymore, whether respect for animal or respect for their tool. Even if I never agreed in full with how hunting worked, I did agree it was needed. I think it's sad another necessity was so calloused.

[ashmanonar]

29. yea...

i know what you mean, althiough i don't hunt myself. it is more painful to the animal: yet, there's no honor in killing a deer or whatever from a half mile away through a scope. there's no sacrifice, no honor for the animal for giving itself up. if you can get close enough to kill an animal easily with a bow, it either WANTED to die, or the person is godlike. ;)

on edit; wtf? i hate the auto replacement thing in here: you type one thing, and another pops up.

[Colorado Blue]

30. I can't believe there isn't more outrage about the "hunting"

that some of these fat cats indulge in: shooting fenced animals, drugged animals, sitting comfortably on their butts while birds are flushed at their feet.

That's not hunting, it's murder. It's DISGUSTING.

Cheney is said to be one of those who indulge in this stuff. I understand there are ranches in Texas where one can shoot a beautiful African animal at close range, in complete safety, for the trophy wall at home.

This is disgusting.

And they complain about "girly-men"????