Suicides in Marine Corps Rise by 29% (In 2004 - WaPo)

[meganmonkey]

The Marine Corps suffered a 29 percent spike in suicides last year, reaching the highest number in at least a decade, with the demanding pace of military operations likely contributing to the deaths, the top-ranking U.S. Marine said yesterday.

Thirty-one Marines committed suicide in 2004, all of them enlisted men, not commissioned officers. The majority were younger than 25 and took their lives with gunshot wounds, according to Marine statistics. Another 83 Marines attempted suicide. There were 24 suicides in 2003, and there have not been more than 29 in any year in the last 10.

---snip---

Marine commanders say the rise in suicides continues a worrisome three-year trend that is likely linked to stress from the sharply increased pace of war-zone rotations. At the same time, they said the increase in suicides is not directly related to service in Iraq or Afghanistan; since 2001 24 percent of the suicides have been committed by Marines who have been deployed there, the statistics show.

---snip---

Hagee warned that while some Marines have displayed obvious warning signs of suicidal tendencies -- such as a preoccupation with dying, risky behavior, withdrawal or giving away their possessions -- many do not. In his memo, he warned that some Marines feel stigmatized for seeking help.

more...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A51933-2005Feb24.html

[gratuitous]

1. Ow! Whiplash!

What to make of this passage:

"Marine commanders say the rise in suicides continues a worrisome three-year trend that is likely linked to stress from the sharply increased pace of war-zone rotations. At the same time, they said the increase in suicides is not directly related to service in Iraq or Afghanistan."

So, the trend is likely linked to an increase in war-zone rotations, but it is not directly related to service in Iraq or Afghanistan. Uh, okay . . . what?

Do we have wars going on in places other than Iraq and Afghanistan?

:crazy:

[K8-EEE]

3. Jesus, No Kidding.

DUHHHH!!

[BeyondGeography]

5. Dilbert-speak, Marine Corp version

Only here, it's a lame attempt to lie about why people are killing themselves.

Next thing you know, there will be whispers about "generational factors" that are causing an abnormal suicide rate. Kids these days...

[egoprofit]

22. aww!! thats bad for morale!! n/t

[RaleighNCDUer]

2. And this doesn't include the numerous incidents of

'suicide by cop' that we've been reading about -- the young marines who come home and go on a crime spree, forcing the police to shoot them.

How about single-car accidents?

I wonder what the real suicide rate is.

[gratuitous]

4. And only oblique mention is made

Of the reckless behavior of some of the troops. Suicide by enemy fire, I suppose. Sometimes I wonder how many of the heroic stories of war are suicide attempts that worked out differently: Some guy and his buddies are pinned down by enemy fire for hours on end, and finally he can't take it anymore. The forced inaction and terror are too much, and anything is better than this, so the guy jumps up from his defensive position and rushes the enemy emplacement. He miraculously gets through the fire okay and lobs a grenade into the machine gun nest, and frees up himself and his buddies.

I'm not saying that every one of those incidents or even a majority of them fit this scenario, but I suspect that there is a certain percentage of men walking around in every country with a medal and a stirring story whose motivation was really "Fuck it. I might as well get cut down on my feet as wait for that bastard up there to punch my ticket."

[meganmonkey]

6. I know what you mean - they talk about the overall suicide rate

being lower for military than the general public, but I would think that a number of people who join the military have some sort of death wish. A lot of them really just want a job and an education, but some of them want to fight till the death...go down in glory, die for their country....It may not be obvious intentional suicide, but there is a fine line between thrill seeker and someone who wants to die.

[96 Tears]

7. Self Selection

The most dangerous jobs in the military are infantry, Marine Recon, Ranger, paratrooper etc... It is an all volunteer force. People are choosing these jobs as opposed to choosing to be a cook on an aircraft carrier which pays the same. They are doing it for the adventure or to be "born again hard". It is really no different than when young people choose hobbies like base jumping, rock climbing or cave diving. They are looking for a risk because they enjoy it. I don't think it has much to do with a "death wish" myself.

[TahitiNut]

11. They discover it's not like the movies - no applauding audience.

... and no heroic music playing in the background. It's funny how much different it is - and dirtier, too.

[96 Tears]

13. It's raw...

Been there, done that. As a combat veteran I can tell you, it is raw hard work. Still, there have always been and will always be plenty who are willing to take up arms. Quite a few re-enlist after having seen and done it. Some can't take it. In any case, soldiers certainly aren't a monolithic group and I wouldn't over generalize people's reaction to combat if I were you.

[TahitiNut]

16. (Uh-huh.) Well, I did my tour in Vietnam.

I don't think I need any cautions about over-generalizing. :shrug:

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[96 Tears]

18. If you were there...

You know there were plenty of troops who not only liked it, signed up for second and third tours of duty there.

Thank you for the welcome.

[TahitiNut]

20. $12,000 bonuses for re-upping had something to do with it.

The vast majority of those who did 2nd and 3rd tours were REMF (like me) lifers with MOS's that got them tax-free bonuses, as well as 1 month leave. Yes, some had VC ears hanging from their belts. In my particular unit (USARV HQ), in 1969, I knew of nobody who volunteered for a 2nd tour.

[96 Tears]

27. NCOs and Officers....

...come from somewhere in the combat arms. You don't draft First Sergeants and Captains.

[TahitiNut]

29. Actually, Captains were sometimes draftees.

:shrug: I was an E-5.

[96 Tears]

30. Point is still valid, right?

E-6 and up had to come from somewhere as did 0-4 and up. This was infantry, artillery etc. Right?

[newyawker99]

31. Hi 96 Tears!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[ckramer]

8. I bet these young men saw the bloody brutality of the war

from Iraq, and thought it's totally contradictory to everything nice they learned since kindergarten and the Sunday Bible class. They totally got lost in the concept of humanity with great confusion and gave up the will to live as a human being.

F this stupid war!

[Just Me]

9. *sigh*

:cry:

Will people confront the real obscene and horrific costs of having war-profiteers in charge of this country?

[puddycat]

10. My guess is that these men actually had a conscience

They knew that what they were doing in Iraq was wrong. When you see innocent lives snuffed out and you know that what you are doing has nothing to do with "fighting for freedom" and its all a lie, that is a heavy burden to bear for any human being who has a conscience.

When our sicko society supports the notion that men in the military today are "fighting for freedom" and when we equate "supporting the troops" with encouraging the slaughter of innocent people by those troops, simply because they wear a uniform with our embroidered flag sewn on, then we do those individuals no favor and in fact we do them great harm.

Instead, we should be encouraging all men of conscience to lay down their arms, and refuse service in the military at this point in time. If the consequences are prison and worse then at least their consciences will be free.

[OKthatsIT]

28. how about setting up an 'underground railroad' for them

get them to Canada when they come back on leave or find out that they have to go back to Iraq?

[Megahurtz]

12. They're probably just trying to escape.

O8)

[KittyWampus]

14. Lariam- The New Anti-Malarial Drug Given Causes Special Forces

to become psychotic. It causes brain damage.

And Special Forces are by definition not the types who 'lose it'.

[reprobate]

15. A one word expanation: Guilt.

There is a reason that soldiers must be taught to kill. They won't do it otherwise. I don't remember the exact numbers, but studies have shown that far less than half of the combatants in a firefight actually shoot their weapons at enemies. The rest either don't shoot or pick inanimate targets.

The military actually has been using FPS computer games to train their recruits. It may have helped them shoot, but hasn't changed their guilt from killing other people. That's what is killing these troops. Anyone who has experienced the terrible pain of killing knows this. It's the reason that police depts require counseling after officer involved shootings.

There is some deep, hard wired antipathy in humans to killing his own kind. This is being recognized by most of the world already. Until this nation wakes up to this fact we will not mature.

Particularly with a child in charge.

[96 Tears]

17. Let's look at the math...

It went from 24 to 31. There are 175,000 Marines. That means the suicide rate went from 0.000137 to 0.000177 in a year. Are you really prepared to make broad sociological assumptions based on that sort of a change?

In the US, among people 20 to 24 years of age, the suicide rate was 12.8 per 100,000 young adults. Meaning we could expect 22 or 23 suicides even if they weren’t in the Marines if they were in that age group. That is about what last year’s figures were.

The bottom line is you can’t draw any conclusions from a small sample like this. Statistical swings explain this as much as anything.

[KittyWampus]

19. If These Are Special Forces Then There Is No Precedent For Suicide

or next to none.

The article doesn't say whether these are Special Forces or not. Or whether these men have recieved Lariam.

[Just Me]

21. Hmmm. So, you are minimizing the significant increase in suicide rate?

Why?

Why rationalize such a significant increase?

You do support our troops, I presume. So, your rationalization is very puzzling to me.

[meganmonkey]

23. It's just the damn liberal media trying to make war look bad

don'tcha know!

;)

Oh wait - War IS BAD!!!

[Just Me]

24. It really makes me angry when people minimize the impact of war,...

,...on so many Americans. What kind of patriotism is that?

[meganmonkey]

25. I know what you mean - and that is what 'our' media is constantly doing

This is the biggest war I have lived through, but it seems like in the past, war meant sacrifice. It affected everyone's lives. With this war, it seems like half the country is in denial that there is a real war going on - soldiers are dying at the rate of 2 or more per day, our nation is financially drained - and we are more concerned about keeping our tax cuts and what is going on with the Michael Jackson trial. And when people try to really honor our soldiers by publically acknowledging the fallen, or by trying to bring to light the fact that they are being taken total advantage of by the government (esp. the Guard and Reserves), they are branded as being unpatriotic and (gasp) 'liberal'.

Well, with the 2 year anniversary of the invasion coming up next month, the Anti-War movement will be picking up momentum with some huge protests.

PEACE!!!

[96 Tears]

26. I am not minimizing anything

I am trying to be intellectually honest here. Anybody with a working knowledge of statistics will tell you that you can't draw inferences from such small swings and small numbers.

Frankly, making mathematically untenable assumptions is rationalizing.