'Loving' farewell to writer (HST, details on death...)

[chickenscratching]

'Loving' farewell to writer
Wife details family gathering with Thompson dead in chair

By Jeff Kass, © 2005, Rocky Mountain News
February 25, 2005

ASPEN — Hunter S. Thompson heard the ice clinking.

The literary champ was sitting in his command post kitchen chair, a piece of blank paper in his favorite typewriter, dead of a self-inflicted gunshot through the mouth hours earlier.


Anita Thompson also echoes the comments that have been made by Hunter Thompson's son and daughter-in-law: That her husband's suicide did not come from the bottom of the well, but was a gesture of strength and ultimate control made as his life was at a high-water mark.

"This is a triumph of his, not a desperate, tragic failure," Anita Thompson said by phone, recounting that she was sitting in her husband's chair he called his catbird seat in the Rockies.


more: (and i suggest reading all of this one champs, it's worth it.) http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/state/article/0,1299,DRMN_21_3575306,00.html

[On the Road]

1. I Never Thought of Hunter and the Dalai Lama

resembling each other. Maybe the Dalai Lama has a future impersonating the Good Doctor in a stand-up tour, like Hal Holbrook did with Mark Twain. That I would pay to see.

:smoke:

[chickenscratching]

3. very interesting resemblence, i can see it though...

i love that anita and hst were reading 'heart of darkness' together...:)

[LibertyorDeath]

2. Thank you

[chickenscratching]

4. no problem....this article made me feel a lot better about things. n/t

[Mandate My Ass]

5. Yes it did. And hopefully those who opined that HST's family

would be victimized by his action. They are at peace. I hope
that ends the harsh criticism of his decision.

[chickenscratching]

6. me too---i hope it also ends the idea of conspiracy...n/t

[Merlin]

8. I know what you mean.

It seems so messy and a horrible thing to do to your loved ones. But as she describes it, sitting in his fave hi-back chair it was not at all gory.

I had always thought HST had way too much class to leave his family with an ugly scene. This proves he did not. I'm reassured.

Thanks very much for posting this.

[chickenscratching]

9. exactly

i liked that the articles voice was mostly coming from anita thompson---very comforting...i enjoyed hearing that he wanted friends and family around him after his death to enjoy drinks and conversation. i hope my death can be something thats more to be regaled at, versus mourned.

[Psephos]

18. Blowing out your brainstem with a .45 isn't messy?

There would have been blood and bits of brain goo all over the kitchen. Whether or not his face was preserved is risible in that context.

I saw many, many people die over the years when I worked in the E.R., and I never once saw someone's suicide result in a happy gathering of the family with the mutilated corpse. What a horrific final image H.T. left for those he loved. Something here is not passing the smell test.

[chickenscratching]

19. true

however, it seems that everybody and everything that surrounded hunter s thompson was generally bohemian in comparison with the rest of the world. obviously the family is going to be upset, but why is it so hard to believe that they aren't happier that it ended this way versus him dying unintelligble in a hospital?

in the articles anita thompson even said that if she had any knowledge that that was teh moment he was going to end his life that she would have had a SWAT team over there to stop him, she didn't want it to happen........BUT, she, (and apparantly the rest of teh family) aren't making speculations about it and instead seeing this death for what it was/is..( at least in their own minds)

[Mandate My Ass]

20. Ya know what cracks me up, chickenscratching?

The pious people who say what a horrible thing HST did to his family but I can think of nothing more horrible than total strangers passing judgment on my dearly departed without having a freakin' clue about what they're talking about.

Even in the face of his wife's total acceptance of his decision, the morality brigade is going to climb on its collective high horse and overrule her.

[chickenscratching]

21. yes! you've said everything i needed to hear right there. n/t

[OldLeftieLawyer]

34. And,

while they're sucking on the bones of someone they never knew, they even find time to take potshots at a woman who just lost her husband simply because of her chosen hair color.

Shame on them all.

[HuckleB]

22. Grief is a many-faced thing.

What one remembers, feels, says, does one minute can be very different from what one notes in the next. This article simply shows his wife at one moment among many in a long process.

[Spider Jerusalem]

24. Actually, it probably isn't.

A .45 (I'm assuming either .45 Colt revolver or .45 ACP automatic) is a fairly low-velocity cartridge...about 800 feet per second. A soft-lead hollowpoint bullet fired through the palate would expand and not penetrate the skull, and there'd probably be rather little blood from the wound, considering that the heart would stop instantly, and, in a sitting position, gravity would tend to draw the blood in the body downward.


As someone who knows firearms, I'd say he was actually considerate in his choice of weapon. If he'd done it with one of his favourite guns, like a .44 Magnum or a .454 Casull, it WOULD have left quite a mess.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

33. Also,

as soon as the bullet hit the brain, the heart stopped beating.

Ergo, very little blood.

(I used to work with prosecutors - you learn the neatest things that way.)

[Psephos]

61. Lower velocity, true - but with a massive 230 grain slug

Which means it delivers about 350 foot-pounds of energy. Check out the torque specification on your automobile for an idea what we're talking about here. That bullet is designed to be a "man-stopper," delivering a hammerblow of concussive energy to knock an attacker backward, and produce a rapid kill. That energy is supposed to be released into the chest/torso of the attacker. Releasing it inside one's mouth is...well, I don't know what it is, but it ain't pretty.

A military-load .45 round penetrates 26" in ballistic gelatin. I saw no mention in any article that Thompson used a hollow point round (to limit penetration), and it seems rather unlikely, given Thompson's love of military-grade ammunition, and the M1911-A1's known balkishness with this kind of round. Thompson's pistol would need to have been throated, which a gun aficionado would find distasteful, if he wanted total certainty about a clean discharge when using a nonmilitary round. I doubt that Thompson was willing to tolerate the smallest chance he might need a second shot.

You're also assuming that Thompson shot himself straight upward, through the soft palate. However, Thompson would have known that the sure kill is to aim backward, to sever the brainstem. If you shoot through the soft palate, your heart keeps beating, your lungs keep breathing, at least for a while, causing exsanguination and a terrific mess. (Or, you may end up bouncing a bullet forward off the brainpan, which destroys your face but leaves the brain intact).

If he did fire backward, to take out the brainstem, there is no skull where the exit wound would be, only articulated cervical vertebrae. I've seen that kind of wound, and it's hamburger. It would be even worse with a mushroomed hollow-point.

You may be right, that his choice of .45 was partly a matter of "consideration," but in my opinion, consideration was not driving him. He wanted to get the job done. Whether or not his choice of weapon was considerate is rather beside the point, anyway: shooting yourself in the mouth when your six-year-old grandson is playing in the next room is distinctly inconsiderate.

[Merlin]

62. Question for you.

First, thanks for the analysis.

I did not find the .45 much of a man-stopper when I used it on an enemy at point blank range in Vietnam. I fired six rounds into the torso of a guy who didn't weigh more than about 150, and he didn't stagger at all. He kept standing for another 10 or so seconds (while he pulled the detonator on one of the charges in his satchel and waited for it to cook; he blew himself to kingdom come; but I had time to turn, grab the guy next to me and drag both of us down to the ground and we were unhurt--though with ears damaged).

My interpretation was that the full metal jacket left a clean exit wound at short (<3') range.

In view of this, it seemed to me that firing a single shot straight back through thin, relatively soft tissue and bone, while seated in a soft cushion, high back chair, minimizes the mess. What say you to that?

[Psephos]

63. Full metal jacket

Nam. You certainly paid your dues. I appreciate your perspective here.

My post was in response to another, where the poster speculated that as an act of consideration, HT used a hollow point or similar round, and shot it upward into his skull, where the bullet would have ricocheted around inside without exiting and leaving a mess. Wow. That seemed like an extraordinary amount of ballistic calculation to me, and highly sensitive to tiny measurements. More to the point, when you are blowing out your brains in the family kitchen, you have other things on your mind than aesthetic details of the aftermath.

I'm assuming you were using the standard-issue Marine M1911-A1 sidearm. The "humanitarian" round for those was the FMJ 230 grain with full charge. Humanitarian in the sense the jacket prevented the slug from spreading much, leaving the victim wounded but not pulverized as the round passed right through him. (The FMJ was also preferred in heavy field conditions because it was less sensitive to dirt in the breech and barrel.) This round is more appropriate for combat at dozens of yards, rather than just a few, where the wounds have time to incapacitate the enemy. At extremely short range - well, you know first-hand what happens at short range. The enemy keeps on coming, because the slug keeps on going.

The non-jacketed, brass-base softnose version (also military issue) is the "man stopper." Designed to impart more of its force into planar areas of the body (specifically, torso). It was developed especially for this purpose at the turn of the century, after testing on cattle (live) and cadavers (dead). That's the round they should have issued you if you were expected to engage in very close combat.

The civilian version, with hollow point and reduced charge, is designed to enter the body, and then decelerate as the slug collapses and spreads. This is specifically to prevent wounding other people if the slug were to penetrate and pass through the body. The reduced charge (and in some versions, reduced mass) mean less total energy, but a greater percentage of that energy delivered to the body.

Now, having said all that, there really aren't enough facts from the news accounts to speculate further. You'd need the coroner's report. The scenario you propose is possible, but so are a lot of other scenarios, most of which are pretty gruesome.

I stand by my earlier opinion, however, that regardless of the consideration shown by choice of weapon and round, the choice of venue and the proximity of a six-year-old grandson were very poor choices. Suicide is most often committed when one is severely depressed, and depression enervates its victims from being able to realize how much distress they may be causing other people.

This is my speculation, nothing more, nothing less. Now I am moving on to less depressing and more enlightening topics.

Peace.

[Merlin]

26. I'm gathering it wasn't. Not when you're seated in a high-back chair.

I'm taking at face value what the people in the article say. Did you read it?

[Psephos]

35. Yes, I did read the whole thing - with a kind of dumbfounded amazement

I saw a lot of suicide aftermaths when I worked in the E.R. Trust me, discharging a firearm inside your mouth does not leave a pretty picture. It's horrifying.

Sitting around a mutilated corpse while drinking scotch and reminiscing sounds like an early stage of the grieving process called denial. This kind of thing happens during war, too. It's only later, sometimes much later, when the mind finally begins to grapple with what has happened, that the effects make themselves known. The same effect causes many veterans to have problems years, even decades, after they come home and resume civilian life.

The final image of HT's mortally wounded body has been seared into the memory of all the family members. Those images will haunt them the rest of their lives.

[Mandate My Ass]

37. You read but you don't comprehend-they did not drink with his

corpse. Unless you're purposely slandering him for your own vicious satisfaction I have to believe you don't understand what was written in that article.

The article says they drank and reminisced where he shot his brains out hours ago.

Police and the coroners office do not leave corpses in the house after a suicide.

Additionally you have no clue as to what has been seared or not. That is your opinion on the matter and has nothing to do with the facts presented in these articles. The false piety would be one thing but making up facts to suit your version of what went on is contemptible.

[Psephos]

42. False righteousness is contemptible in any form

You sure nailed me. I'm vicious and contemptible. My only motive is to slander him. I'm full of false piety.

???

I am a gentle person, and one who has many direct experiences of gruesome deaths seared into my brain. Viciousness and contemptibility are not among my many faults. Your judgments are out of place here.

The article does not say they drank and reminisced where he shot his brains out hours ago, as you paraphrased it. According to the wording of the article, you seem to be the one who is making things up, not me, although my guess is that's not your intention, either. I think we both read a not-so-well written article and interpreted it differently. But read for yourself. Here's a direct quote from the Rocky Mountain News article:

"ASPEN — Hunter S. Thompson heard the ice clinking.

The literary champ was sitting in his command post
kitchen chair, a piece of blank paper in his favorite
typewriter, dead of a self-inflicted gunshot through
the mouth hours earlier.

But a small circle of family and friends gathered around
with stories, as he wished, with glasses full of his
favored elixir — Chivas Regal on ice.

"It was very loving. It was not a panic, or ugly, or freaky,"
Thompson's wife, Anita Thompson, said Thursday night in her
first spoken comments since the icon's death Sunday. "It was
just like Hunter wanted. He was in control here."

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/state/article/0,1299,DRMN_21_3575306,00.html

I loved HT's early writing. I do not love how he decided to end his writing career. Look at how the death of another writer who shot himself in the mouth affected his family for decades to come: Hemingway. Nasty business, that.

This is a discussion board, where we offer our opinions. That's what we're *supposed* to do. You can disagree with me - in fact, that's kind of the point - but laying a load of labels and insults on someone who doesn't share your exact opinion is, in the kindest interpretation, counterproductive. It also seems hypocritical to me to carp about judgment and opinion when that very same carping is itself a rather unkarmic rendering of judgment and opinion.

Let's agree to disagree, but as fellow DUers. Peace.

[Mandate My Ass]

44. "I do not love how he decided to end his writing career."

Well, how very very sad that is for you. If only HST had called you prior to making this decision and had deferred to your superior judgment in this matter. Oh that's right! This isn't about you!

His family expected it. They say they have no problem with it. Surmising that they are going to be affected horribly for decades to come is because that's what happened to the Hemingway family is purespeculation. In that statement is an implicit judgment that he did not care for his family as much as he should have. He's gone now and it does no good that I can see to second guess him. His family would most likely be more comforted to know his fans respected him and are not second guessing him.

We do disagree on just about every point. And I'll worry about my own karma, thanks. I don't need anybody else to do it for me.

[Psephos]

64. You're one of the most judgmental people on here

and you care way more about theoretical slights to a dead man than to actual insults to real people with real feelings.

I wasn't worried about your karma. I was worried about DU's karma, of which I must say you are a major disrupter, after reviewing the way you attacked a gentle person like Patsified.

[Merlin]

39. I think it depends upon the degree to which one is terrified of death.

I have no doubt your experience has exposed you to many horrifying scenes resulting from the actions of exceptionally sick and self centered people.

In this case, however, you have chosen to ignore the possibility that the scene was not bloody and gruesome because the chair would have absorbed any splatter and because, as another writer pointed out, it's even possible the bullet did not even penetrate the skull.

Accordingly, you assert that they were sitting around a "mutilated corpse" and oblivious to this fact because of their joint state of denial.

You further assert that combat veterans suffer later psychological trauma from exposure to similar gruesome scenes.

Aside from the issue about whether the instant case even was a "gruesome scene," I question the assertion that this is in fact the cause of PTSS. I spent a lot of time in combat and saw many gruesome scenes. I don't believe viewing mutilated remains alone causes PTSS.

I believe the psychological harm is most clearly the result of experiencing and participating in the mayhem of battle, of profound guilt over one's role in it, and of stark recognition of the futility of the process--particularly in situations like Vietnam and Iraq where the lie of our involvement "to help the people" becomes patent and undeniable when we find ourselves helping to destroy those very people in order to "save" them.

I do admit it's possible the Thompsons put a pleasant face on an unpleasant situation for the sake of HST's memory. I would rather take what they say at face value because, I confess, in many ways I loved the guy.

[Catt03]

52. Thanks for some sanity of this

As much as I liked thompson's outlandish behavior and his gonzo journalism, he basically gave the finger to his family. What an inconsiderate and ignorant thing to do with your grandson sitting in the next room.

This family has some serious reality problems. Rejoicing using his favorite gun to blow his brains out?

Hunter Thompson was a gifted writer, particularly in the earlier years. Hunter Thompson also lived in a drug induced brain and there is nothing to celebrate about that.

[Xithras]

47. Actually, here's the real reason why he used a gun...

I heard a blip on the radio this morning about it.

Hunter S. Thompson had few real heroes in his life, but one person he always respected immensely was Ernest Hemingway. Much of Thompson's worldview was modeled after Hemingway's, and Thompson apparently often told people that he thought that Hemingway was one of the most brilliant men of the last century. In many ways, Hemingway was Thompson's personal hero, a man tried hard to emulate.

And how did Hemingway go? He put a gun in his mouth and pulled the trigger.

[Merlin]

49. Good point. But I have the impression EH was way more self centered

I doubt EH would have been a liberal, for example. I'm sure HST had his differences. But certainly, as to style, he did emulate Papa.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

7. Very generous of you, chicken........

Thanks.

Hunter and the Dalai Lama - that's a riot.

[chickenscratching]

10. youre welcome...

it truly sounds like an interesting ending to one of the most interesting lives i've ever come to know or hear about.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

29. I always thought so, too.

I lived in Aspen for a while in the early seventies, and HST was a wild man back then, truly adored by the then-rustic town. The developers were just moving in back then. Jack Nicholson and Art Garfunkel were hanging around, too, since it was just after "Carnal Knowledge" came out. Everyone dumped on John Denver, who had a really nasty streak.

But, as the years went by, and I invariably bought whatever new HST book came out, my disappointment grew. Towards the end, his volumes of letters were nothing be reprints of screeds he wrote to editors, demanding payment.

In fact, he wrote three great books, and a number of gorgeous essays, and he made it look as if he were a full-time freak, when, in fact, he was a hard-working writer who probably worked even harder to maintain his image. He burned himself out in the most complicated way, I think.

For me,the truth is that his image looms larger than his actual literary legacy. That's pretty cool, though, because he was one hell of a character.

Thanks again, Chicken................

[booksenkatz]

11. What about the 6-year-old grandson?

We adults can romanticize it and sort of understand why Thompson did what he did. But I wonder if it will be that easy for the grandson. And what if the grandson had discovered the scene? Kids that age are always pestering their grandpas, running in to see what they're up to, surprising them, etc. My son is 5 1/2 and I can't imagine him having to deal with something like this. That's the one part of this whole thing that bothers me.

[chickenscratching]

12. did the grandson live on the compound?

it seemed though that hunter made some really mature decisions though, for instance making sure anita wouldn't be by herself when she found him and using a gun that wouldn't create a gruesome scene.

i see your point on children finding this sort of thing, but was hunter then supposed to live his life as a vegetable? connected to tubes?
i think even if the grandson did see it, and was traumatized he'd come to realize with age the reasons hunter had for doing what he did.

[booksenkatz]

13. I'm not as well-informed about it as others here, but I'd read that

the family (including the grandson) was visiting and were in the house when the shooting occurred. I'm trying to think of how I would explain it to my son -- that Grandpa was in alot of pain, etc. I could probably find some way to explain that part to him, but it really does trouble me how easily that child could have been the first one to discover the gruesome scene -- THAT part would NOT have been so easy.

ON EDIT: Welcome to DU!
:hi:

ON SECOND EDIT: Several members of my husband's family committed suicide, and my husband has told me that when you're young and you know that about your family, it becomes almost romanticized and sounds like an easy way to escape the problems of your teen years. Scary.

[chickenscratching]

14. thanks for the welcome!

at least he chose to do it in a way that wasn't gruesome (according to anita thompson)...but yea, i have no idea how to explain that one...:shrug:

[Karenina]

15. Stop getting yourselves in a tizzy

over something that DIDN'T HAPPEN. Please.

[chickenscratching]

16. ?? what didn't happen? n/t oh! nevermind...

[booksenkatz]

17. Maybe you're missing my point

If Thompson did this in such a cool-headed way that he'd planned for a very long time, I can't help but wonder why those plans didn't include "make sure grandson is not in vicinity when I do this." It makes me wonder if it was really so well-planned that he would forget something so important? Or if it was so well-planned, why would he be so cold as to do it with the grandson in the house? That's all I'm wondering. I'm not in a 'tizzy.' Please.
:eyes:

[OldLeftieLawyer]

30. You're looking at it from your frame of reference

You don't know how that family dynamic worked or what was considered acceptable for the Thompson clan. You're looking through the narrow end of the telescope.

Since this has been so carefully managed and handled, I daresay there wasn't much anyone - including the grandson - couldn't handle. The kid's parents were there, and I'd leave it to them to know what's best for their child.

Expand your vision and imagine a world - and a family - different from yours.

[booksenkatz]

38. I do it all the time, thanks.

I'm rather offended by the "expand your vision and imagine a world and a family different from yours." You don't know me sir/madam.

I'm talking SIMPLY about the idea of blowing your brains out when a 6-year-old is in the vicinity. I'm wondering about the dynamics, that's all I'm doing. The thing you are asking me to do -- expand my mind and envision a family different from mine -- I AM DOING, ok? What an amazing 6-year-old this must be, different from every other 6-year-old I've ever known. Wow. I'm impressed. Guess he won't be haunted AT ALL by this family suicide? Cool. Wow. Very, very cool. You learn something every day. How neat to know that a child isn't bothered by something like that. That hasn't been my husband's experience. Cool, man. Very cool. Amazing. Wow.
:eyes:

[OldLeftieLawyer]

40. Sorry

Did you say something?

As I suggested, expand your frame of reference. You're all constipated and stuck in one place.

Not good.

[booksenkatz]

43. Thank you for the quickie online analysis of my personality and colon.

And it was free, too! Guess you get what you pay for.

Since you are the psychologist, not I, tell me how I'm not expanding my frame of reference? I'm expanding the shit out of my mind right now: I'm sitting here envisioning a 6-year-old that has the maturity of an adult. With nerves of steel that are not touched by the suicide of his grandfather. Wow. I'm very impressed. I'd love to meet him and shake his hand, that's all. Whaddayawantfrumme?

(Did someone tinkle in your Wheaties today? I swear to God it wasn't me.)

[OldLeftieLawyer]

46. You're taking this terribly personally

But, you have to do what you have to do.

The point you're obviously having trouble comprehending is that raising children is not a uniform process - we all do it our own way. A four-year-old raised by you would, no doubt, be a very different child from one raised by me.

Children are taught to fear. They have to be taught, just like the song says in "South Pacific" about hate. They take their cues from us. If a four-year-old child is not taught to fear death, in any form, but, rather, to embrace it as a necessary and inevitable stage in life, then a corpse, in whatever state, carries nothing frightful for the child.

And anyone who's raised kids knows that lying to them is the worst thing you can do.

When my father died, my kids - who then ranged in age from three to eight - wanted to see and touch and caress his body. We certainly didn't stop them, and we joined them. They were far less intimidated by what had taken place than we were. We had taught them, but, when the time came, we learned from them.

Thus my entreaty to you to try to see things in a more expanded way.

If you're happy calling me names, that's fine, too. But, I wonder how you're raising your kids? As fearful and angry or as confident and curious.

Best of luck to you, in any event.

[chickenscratching]

48. hear hear! n/t

[booksenkatz]

50. Um

You tell me to expand my mind and envision other kinds of families (even though I do this, unbeknownst to you, as part of my normal daily existence). I'm doing this by questioning how the Thompsons are dealing with the boy and wondering what Thompson was thinking when he decided to do what he did with the boy in the house. I have to ENVISION that Thompson knew what he was doing and he knew how the boy would handle it. I'm doing exactly as you suggest: ENVISIONING. And I get criticized for wondering about it. How can I expand my thinking when I get criticized for expanding my thinking?
:crazy:

You called me constipated, yet you accuse me of name calling. I am probably the most peace-loving DUer you'll ever meet, I don't get involved with DU quarrels. I don't call anyone names. I'm just trying to figure out where you get off analyzing someone you've never met (me, my child). Apparently you enjoy giving 'what-for' to an average person who means no harm and comes to DU to learn and glean comfort in difficult times. Maybe I'm wrong, but it *seemed* like you were attacking me and analyzing me without knowing me, without asking me to clarify my post. So, um, yeah, it felt kinda personal.

I am actually *very* supportive of unconventional families, unconventional thinking, and raising children in unconventional ways. I'm trying to envision a 6-year-old that is mature enough to handle Grandpa's suicide. How does that make me close-minded? If he's cool with it, more power to him.

I don't lie to my child. I've been teaching him about death since he was 18 months old. He's the coolest kid. And as mature as he is, I *still* wouldn't want my dad blowing his brains out in his presence. Did your dad kill himself in your kids' presence? There's a big difference between natural death and suicide, and explaining the difference to kids. I would ENVISION that it would be difficult to explain suicide. I'm trying, again, to ENVISION that kind of family that accepts it as ok. Forgive me if I find it difficult. Multiple suicides were not good for my husband's family, so I kowtow to you and to this child and to the entire Thompson family who find the situation no problem at all. You are all obviously very unique and far superior to the rest of us. I think it's great that this kid won't ever have nightmares, and that if he hits difficult times in his teens, he definitely won't be seduced by the family lore, thinking that suicide is kind of a romantic notion. As I said earlier: wow.

Why are we going back and forth like this? I don't get it. I don't ever have this happen at DU. I'm frustrated that I'm unable to achieve a mutual understanding with another DUer, this is the first time after 5 years, it just feels odd. Sorry if I'm not communicating well tonight. Am facing the possible death of someone very close to me tonight, as a matter of fact, so it's hard to talk about this stuff with any clarity. If I'm touchy, maybe that's part of it.

Cheers.

[Mandate My Ass]

51. "I'm just trying to figure out where you get off analyzing someone you've

never met."


Why, in exactly the way you analyzed HST without having ever met him and found him wanting, that's how.

[booksenkatz]

53. Is this semantics?

When does wondering about someone become analyzing someone? This is where the miscommunication comes in. If you go back and read my posts, I'm pretty sure that I didn't make any conclusions about the man, or state with any certainty that he was this or that. I was bloody WONDERING. WONDERING. WONDERING. Christ, what is the problem with wondering about something?

[Mandate My Ass]

55. Wanna play semantics? OK

We adults can romanticize it and sort of understand why Thompson did what he did.

Nobody romanticized it. He shot himself in the head because he didn't want to slowly disintegrate into a helpless and dependent state of existence that held no hope of recovery. Seems pretty cut and dried, doesn't it?

You can sort of understand?

Either you understand or you don't. Obviously, you don't.

But I wonder if it will be that easy for the grandson. And what if the grandson had discovered the scene? Kids that age are always pestering their grandpas, running in to see what they're up to, surprising them, etc.

Evidently the grandson didn't discover him. I guess that point has nothing to do with anything.


My son is 5 1/2 and I can't imagine him having to deal with something like this.

That's your son, who isn't even part of the equation, so why bring it up unless you are trying to make comparisons where you come off being a better, more responsible person than HST?


That's the one part of this whole thing that bothers me.

Why are you bothered? HST's grandson did not find him. Your son didn't find him. No child found him. His son found him and is fine with it. The whole family is at peace and yet you are bothered. The only thing that could be bothering you is that you don't approve. Your approval or lack thereof is meaningless when applied to a situation that doesn't have any bearing or consequence on your life whatsoever. If you're bothered, it's because you're projecting a personal and subjective value judgment on an event that does not concern you in the least.

[booksenkatz]

56. OK, will play this one last time. This is getting futile and exhausting.

I meant that some adults can romanticize it and/or understand it and/or make peace with it. I frankly DO understand why Thompson did what he did. What I'm having TROUBLE understanding is if/how he took into the account the presence of his grandson in the home. I have to believe that he knew the child wouldn't have trouble with it. I guess. Thompson obviously knew the child better than I or anyone here at DU knew him. Perhaps I shouldn't have said I was "bothered" by the child's presence in the home; I should have said (I see now in retrospect) that I was impressed that Thompson had the kind of relationship with his grandson that he knew his grandson could handle it. As I said, a 6-year-old like that would be impressive and singular, I'd like to meet him.

Yeah, I guess I do think about what-ifs when kids are involved. I'm the type who takes preventive measures with things because I'm able to envision possible outcomes of various circumstances. Since we know that most kids run around pestering their grandpas, I'm wondering what sort of dynamic was at play here that Thompson knew the child wouldn't discover him. What-ifs DO matter in life, it's why we wear seatbelts and why my husband wears a motorcycle helmet.

Why bring up my son? Well, in WONDERING about Thompson's grandson, it makes me think of my own child. As a loving mother, I'm fucked up that way, I guess, thinking about my own child when I see other children's circumstances. I always thought it was normal. Silly me. I was an English minor; we compare and contrast everything we do know when we're examining things we do not know. And you must forgive me for being human: we humans do tend to project our values and thoughts and feelings when we're reading the news. I always thought it's a part of how a person grows. I'm not an automaton, I have feelings and thoughts about everything I read.

I'm tired. I don't wanna do this. I'm 44 years old, life's too short.

[Mandate My Ass]

57. Well for someone who's tired

you sure keep plugging away at those rationalizations and value judgments.

Good luck with that growing thing. THere's nowhere to go but up.

[booksenkatz]

58. Thank you so much for the unasked-for online analysis.

You don't know me, you've never met me, I didn't ask for this fight, so I'll take your analysis and advice for what it's worth.
:eyes:

[Mandate My Ass]

59. You're welcome. And on behalf of the whole Thompson family

and I do admit I am a most unnofficial spokesperson, thank you for sullying his memory for no reason at all except that he didn't live up to what you think he should have been. That will be of great comfort to them I'm sure during their time of grief.

[Psephos]

60. Patsified, don't waste your time with anklebiters

Instead, have a laugh. I mean it. Can you imagine if you had to spend two hours in a car with your hecklers? Heh. Now take pleasure in the fact that you don't. Ever. :-)

On Planet Mandate, six-year-olds who hear grampaw blow out his brains in the kitchen use it as a soul-strengthening channel to inner peace and contentment. On Planet Earth, six-year-olds are scared of monsters under the bed and want to sleep in mommy's and daddy's room when they wake up in the middle of the night. On Planet LeftieLawyer, no children are born with fear circuits wired into their brains, unlike every other animal. On Planet Earth, a day-old baby knows to start crying at the mere sight of something not its mother. On these other planets, vicious Puritans patrol online forums, waiting to deliver swift judgment and insults upon anyone who might be guilty of, ahem, posting a judgment or holding an opinion that's not identical to those on the Approved List. Oh wait, that's Planet Earth I'm talking about, isn't it?

These people are hilarious. I knew a few of their kind back in high school...you know the kind, the cynical poseurs with Air Ware boots and hair-trigger affrontery detectors, never happy unless they're unhappy, and making fun of someone.

Who knows, maybe they're really freepers in drag, trying to stir up trouble in DU. The whole condescending/judgmental Puritan thing sure fits that theory. :-)

Patisfied, I've seen many of your posts, and you are an asset to DU in every sense of the word. More than I can say for those who think it's cool to badger people who have different opinions with serial spittle-flecked posts.

Just pat them on the head and tell them to run along.

[THUNDER HANDS]

23. you'd think he'd leave a note

odd that he didn't

[uncle ray]

27. blank sheet of paper in his typewriter

i guess it's symbolic, he had nothing more to say.

[Merlin]

28. Sounds eloquent to me. n/t

.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

32. That happened a long time ago

The last thing I read by HST was his cover story on Rolling Stone's endorsement of John Kerry last Autumn.

It was awful. I couldn't believe how bad it was. As if he were struggling to fill up the space.

I think HST ran out of things to say a long time ago.

I'm still gonna miss the idea of him, though.

[librechik]

25. 32 year old bride not concerned about tiff before leaving the house

friends disturbed her during her workout at the gym to tell her to call home. No offense, but I guess it takes a blond not to feel a wee bit guilty about that.

It's cool she cut off her 12 inch ponytail to be cremated with him.

Now it's HER expansive farm at Woody Creek.

Men.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

31. You know that?

So, where'd you get a copy of HST's will? You know who inherits what? That's pretty impressive.

Bet you pulled THAT one out of your butt.

Your post is not only ill-conceived and uninformed, it's quite nasty. You got something against blondes, hmmmm?

[librechik]

36. Colorado is a community property state

It's hers now.

No, I don't have anything against blonds, just insensitive people.

It's all there in the article.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

41. Community property or not

There are all sorts of ways that land can be held, and you have no idea in what manner HST's property was owned.

The assumptions some folks make have made a whole lot of $$$ for people in my profession.

Thanks.

[chickenscratching]

45. hey now!

you guys! it should be a loving farewell!! despite our disagreements, none of us are in Colorado at Hunters' home, so we don't know anything about what we're talking about. i dont either. im not trying to be self righteous, but there's no answer to anything through argument.... (and that's the last tiem i try to mediate anything! :) )

[JohnnyCougar]

54. For all those interested, I wrote a piece on HST here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3178619

I'm glad to know his family is handling it well.