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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 05:10 PM
Original message
Canada Orders Holocaust-Denier Deported (NY Newsday)
AP story reported in Newsday. Hope the Krauts lock up this rat bastard a good, long time. Shame we can't send some of our own for the ride...

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/sns-ap-canada-holocaust-denier,0,4882297.story?coll=sns-ap-world-headlines

TORONTO -- Jewish activists Friday hailed a court ruling that allows Canada to deport German Holocaust denier Ernst Zundel to face prosecution at home.

Zundel, author of "The Hitler We Loved and Why," has been held in a Toronto jail for two years while authorities determined whether he posed a security risk to Canadian society.

<...>

Zundel faces prosecution in Germany for his neo-Nazi and Holocaust-denying activities. Since the late 1970s he has operated Samisdat Publishing, one of the leading distributors of Nazi propaganda and since 1995 has been a key content provider for a Web site dedicated to Holocaust denial, according to the the Anti-Defamation League.

German authorities told the Canadian Press on Friday that Zundel would be picked up and arrested as soon as he arrived back in his homeland.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. Stupid bastard should have fled to the US
The GOP would have welcomed him with open arms and given him a spot in the press room under an alias.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. He did flee to the US and was promptly deported back here
to await deportation from here to Germany. I say good riddance to him, it is long over due.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. He's going to prison for being a schmuck?
I don't like Nazis one little bit, but that doesn't sound quite democratic to me.

Every time I see the name Zundel on the web, it's usually in the context of him being a martyr to the cause of free speech, even though his idea of free speech is similar to a hooker's idea of free love. I kinda suspect Herr Zundel is looking forward to his "persecution".

--p!
Springtime ... for Zundel ... and Germany! ...
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MrPrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I don't like Nazis one little bit, either
But I am not a big fan of countries revoking one's citizenship just for political expediency.

Sure he is a miserable rat bastard and if he broke Canadian law, then he should do time in a Canadian prison--but they can't bust him and so due to political pressures have re-visited his citizenship over the technically of his leaving the country to go to the US...

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CHIMO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. His Citizenship Is Not Being Revoked
He is being returned to the country in which he has citizenship.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/zundel/
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Maple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. He is not
a Canadian citizen.

He is however an attention seeker. Years ago he tried running for the leadership of the Liberal party, although he was totally unknown at the time. Then he did a whole thing with UFO's. Finally the publishing of hate propaganda and involvement with violent groups got him the attention he wanted.

Not that he appreciated it,once he had it, I'm sure.
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MrPrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. 'totally unknown at the time'
Funny...when Zundel was a fashion photographer working for Maclean magazine he was definitely known...in fact his first claim to infamy was taking that famous Maggie Trudeau 'skirt' photo.

One assumes that is when he got into the publishing game...
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. After the Nazi's in Skokie
I didn't pay my ACLU dues for two years (but then I rejoined) ;)
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DivinBreuvage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. Of course there is always the fear that once the system crosses the line
for Nazis or Nazi sympathizers, it will be tempted to cross it for lesser offenses, or for no offenses at all. But at the same time, nobody needs Nazis or Nazi sympathizers; and, as the historical experience of just about every nation in Europe illustrates, there's really only one practical way to deal with them. Canada's a nice country, let them get rid of him.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
9. Don't get your hopes up. Remember Fred A. Leuchter, Jr.?
He was arrested in Germany and released on bail.

They allowed him (contrary to standard procedures) to keep his passport.

The bastard fled back to America where he is still alive (unfortunately) and well (even more unfortunately).

See:

The Leuchter Report
Holocaust Denial & The Big Lie
Auschwitz art The attempt to justify an evil deed has perhaps more pernicious consequences than the evil deed itself. The justification of a past crime is the planting and cultivation of future crimes. Indeed, the repetition of a crime is sometimes part of a device of justification; we do it again and again to convince ourselves and others that it is a common thing and not an enormity. (Eric Hoffer, The Passionate State of Mind. New York: Harper & Brothers, 1954.)
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/places/germany/ftp.py?places/germany//press/reuters.031694

Mr. Death
The Rise and Fall of Fred A. Leuchter, Jr.

RT: 90 minutes
http://www.errolmorris.com/film/mrd_transcript.html


Denying the Holocaust : The Growing Assault on Truth and Memory
by Deborah E. Lipstadt
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0452272742/


Denying History: Who Says the Holocaust Never Happened and Why Do They Say It?
by Michael Shermer, Alex Grobman, Arthur Hertzberg
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0520216121/ref=ase_roberttoddcarrolA/104-5564274-2043929?v=glance&s=books



Holocaust Denial

The mass extermination of the Jews and other “undesirables” at the hands of the Nazis during World War II is referred to as the Holocaust. It has become a symbol of evil in our time. Like many symbols, the Holocaust has become sacrosanct. To many people, both Jews and non-Jews, the Holocaust symbolizes the horror of genocide against the Jews. Some modern anti-Semites have found that attacking the Holocaust causes as much suffering to some Jews as attacking Jews themselves. “Holocaust denial” refers to attacking the accuracy of any aspect of the symbology or history of the Holocaust.

Holocaust denial seems to be the main motivation of the Institute for Historical Review and its Journal of Historical Review. Since 1980 this journal has been publishing articles attacking the accuracy of various claims about the Holocaust. There is clearly an agenda when a journal is devoted almost exclusively to the single issue of making the Holocaust seem like an exaggeration of biased historians. If truth and historical accuracy were the only goals of this group, it would be praised rather than despised. However, it seems that its promoters are more concerned with hatred than with truth. Thus, even the inaccuracies that they correctly identify are met with scorn and derision. For they never once deal with the central question of the Holocaust. They deal with details and technical issues: Were there six million or four million Jews who died or were killed? Could this particular shower have been used as a gas chamber? Were these deaths due to natural causes or not? Did Hitler issue a Final Solution order or not? If so, where is it? These are legitimate historical issues. However, the Holocaust deniers do not deal with the questions of racial laws that led to the arrest and imprisonment of millions of Jews in several countries for the “crime” of race. They do not concern themselves with the policy of herding people like animals and transporting them to “camps” where millions died of disease or malnutrition, or were murdered. They don’t address the moral issues of medical experimentation on humans or of persecution of homosexuals and the infirm. Why not?

Michael Shermer devotes two chapters of Why People Believe Weird Things (1997) to the arguments of the Holocaust deniers. (In Denying History: Who Says the Holocaust Never Happened and Why Do They Say It? <2000> Shermer and coauthor Alex Grobman devote nine chapters to the subject.) Shermer takes up many of the deniers’ arguments and refutes them one by one. For example, one of the favorite appeals of the Holocaust deniers is to demand some proof that Hitler gave the order for the extermination of the Jews (or the mentally retarded, mentally ill, and physically handicapped). Holocaust deniers point to Himmler’s telephone notes of November 30, 1941, as proof that there was to be no liquidation of the Jews. The actual note says: “Jewish transport from Berlin. No liquidation.” Whatever the note meant, it did not mean that Hitler did not want the Jews liquidated. The transport in question, by the way, was liquidated that evening. In any case, if Hitler ordered no liquidation of the Berlin transport, then liquidation was going on and he knew about it. Hitler’s intentions were made public in his earliest speeches. Even as his regime was being destroyed, Hitler proclaimed: “Against the Jews I fought open-eyed and in view of the whole world. . . . I made it plain that they, this parasitic vermin in Europe, will be finally exterminated.” Hitler at one time compared the Jews to the tuberculosis bacilli that had infected Europe. It was not cruel to shoot them if they would not or could not work. He said: “This is not cruel if one remembers that even innocent creatures of nature, such as hares and deer when infected, have to be killed so that they cannot damage others. Why should the beasts who wanted to bring Bolshevism be spared more than these innocents?”

More:
http://skepdic.com/nazism.html



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