2.4 Million Veterans Will Pay New Fee

[True_Blue]

Republican majorities on the House and Senate veterans' affairs committees have voted to impose an enrollment fee of at least $230 a year on 2.4 million veterans - one of every three now eligible for Veterans Affairs Administration health care.

Those targeted are in priority categories 7 and 8, meaning they are neither poor nor suffering from service-connected disabilities. Half of the 2.4 million used the VA health system last year.

The Bush administration proposed the enrollment fee to hold down costs. The VA committees rejected another Bush proposal to raise co-payments on VA-filled prescriptions for these same priority 7 and 8 veterans.

While both committees endorsed enrollment fees, differences emerged. The Senate panel, chaired by Sen. Larry Craig, R-Idaho, embraced the Bush plan for a straight $250 annual fee.
more....
http://www.military.com/Content/Printer_Friendly_Version/1,11491,,00.html?str_filename=FL%5Ffee%5F022605&passfile=FL%5Ffee%5F022605&page_url=%2FNewsContent%2F0%2C13319%2CFL%5Ffee%5F022605%2C00%2Ehtml

[alcuno]

1. Sounds like a TAX to me.

When imposed by the government, how is a fee different from a tax?

[indepat]

2. My thoughts exactly: watch what they do rather than what they say

[Egalitariat]

22. A fee is for actual services rendered. A tax entitles you to nothing***

nm

[alcuno]

27. An enrollment "fee" doesn't get you any services, it gets you enrolled.

When I pay the gasoline tax, I actually get gasoline. It seems to me that it's a matter of how things are worded. Isn't social security called an "entitlement" and the money comes from the "payroll tax?"

[eddieb]

71. Tax gets you nothing?

Boy That is dumber than dumb! Here let me help you. Taxes are used to pay for Police, Fireman, Teachers, Judges and on and on.

[Egalitariat]

76. I said it "entitles" you to nothing

An individual gets all those things you mentioned whether or not they pay taxes.

If I pay $1 million in income taxes, then the firemen will come put out a fire at my house if it burns.

If I pay $0 in income taxes, the same firemen will come put out a fire at my house if it burns.

They don't check to see if you paid taxes first.

However, with a fee (which the above poster questioned) I am entitled to something.

If I pay the $250 VA fee, then I am entitled to some form of health care according to the poster.

If I do not pay the fee, then I am not entitled to the care.

There is a huge difference between taxes and fees. And that is the difference.

See, you've learned something here. And also shown everyone here that you are the one who is "Dumber than Dumb".

[Paradise]

62. Creative, aren't they! n/t

[jmowreader]

69. A fee is a tax when the Democrats impose it

Examples:

* The state of North Carolina has no recreational saltwater fishing license regulations. At this time, you can come to North Carolina and fish in the ocean without paying one cent to the government for permission to do so. Every other state on the east coast has a saltwater license. We've occasionally talked about implementing a real cheap saltwater fishing license--like a dollar for a week or seven for a whole year--but it always gets shot down by some Repug who says this is a tax that will destroy our tourism industry. (IOW, the only reason to come to North Carolina on a fishing vacation is that you don't have to stop in at Wal-Mart and pay a Whole Dollar to the state of North Carolina for a fishing license.)

* We have special 82nd Airborne license plates. If you're in the 82nd Airborne Division or the Division Association, you can pay $10 and get a special plate with an 82nd Airborne patch on it. A lot of paratroopers have these. But they spent years getting the plate approved because one of our Repug lawmakers decided it was a tax on our brave fighting men and women. (Skip over the minor sticking point that our fighting men and women begged the state for these plates. They had something like 3000 applications for the plate--it may have been 10,000; I know it was a bunch--and all you need to get the ball rolling is 100.)

* Bill Clinton signed a bill calling for all felons admitted to the Arkansas penal system to pay a one-dollar inprocessing fee. I don't know what they do to you if you get thrown in jail with no money, but basically you have to tip the warden when you get thrown in the hoosegow in the state of Arkansas. When Clinton ran for president in 1992, this was one of the 350 new taxes Clinton was said to have imposed on the intrepid citizens of the state of Arkansas.

I could go on, but you get the idea: if it's a user fee or an enrollment fee or whatever and a Democrat signs the legislation authorizing it, it's a tax.

[designforce]

3. Just another broken promise

As one who uses the VA, I was waiting for this. Love how the regime can keep changing the rules as time goes by.

Thought I earned my VA benefits by giving a portion of my life in service to my country. Now the powers that be keep finding new ways to screw us veterans.

Oh well, at least I can still be buried in a national cemetary, or at least I hope I can.....

[eddieb]

72. Bush is Taxing Rich Vets

Lets see if I have this right. If your rich and never served you are given a Tax rebate if your rich and served your country you get taxed in the guise of a Fee. Wow Love those REPUGS.
For those who are debating Tax vs Fee stop it. A tax by any other name is a tax. Politicians are very adept at playing "hide the tax" game.

[eddieb]

73. What make you so sure

I wouldn't be suprise if the Repugs decided to ban all Tall vets from our National cemetarys.

[MADem]

4. My, what unmitigated bastards!!!

A tax by any name is still a TAX. America needs to know that this regime's REPUBLICANS have voted to tax vets. And you can bet that most of those voting "aye" never spent a second in uniform. It's real easy to talk the talk when you've never walked the walk. This is beyond disgusting...

[AlCzervik]

5. The gop hates the troops eom

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

6. Hahaha! and all the conservative web sites that slam us

and claim WE DON'T SUPPORT THE TROOPS voted for these greedy bastards who are financing their tx cut for the wealthy by TAXING vets

[bluestateguy]

7. I believe health care is a right for all

But veterans and children should be covered first, without this bullshit "fee".

[lovuian]

8. Veterans take a kick in the Butt by Bush Ya know what this tells me

Medical expenses for Veterans has skyrocketed since IRAq War!!!

[dand]

9. Pat them on the back, and screw them at the same time,

and the majority of them will thank the slimy little prick.

Not this Vet, he makes me want to puke.

[LiberalFighter]

53. How many Vets will still believe the GOP & dipshit are honest christians?

[The Zanti Regent]

10. Well, they cannot take anything more from me since my son is dead.

When will people wake up and realize that the same Republicans who give lip service to the military are the same ones first in line to screw veterans?

[Skittles]

82. Zanti

one day I hope you will post a thread on your boy with his picture and his story. When you are able to.

*sniff*

[tsuki]

11. I can't wait to hear how this is all Clinton's fault.

[stevedeshazer]

12. Let's call it what it is - the Veteran's Tax.

Language is important.

[alcuno]

14. Exactly! You'd think we'd be the masters of word usage not the R's.

How on earth we can be losing a language war with these people is beyond me. Liberal elitists who have taken over higher education and we're tongue tied. Inconceivable!

[dw]

16. This isn't a war on language...

They're conducting a war on TRUTH, and we're simply not willing to make the ultimate sacrifice.

They are.

They kill the truth with their WMDs every day and give each other medals for it.

[alcuno]

28. I agree. It's not a war ON language, but it is a war OF language.

We should be able to articulate better.

[mwb970]

31. Yes! It's the "framing" thing again.

We have to come up with our own names for everything they do. The names they give their evil acts always make them sound like Good Things.

George Orwell, phone home.

[Ezlivin]

13. And they don't take American Express

You've defended freedom and fought in battles scattered across the globe. Now you're a veteran and home. Where do you go for health care?

Try the VAMC! They offer health services to all veterans.

But remember to take your Visa, because the VA doesn't take American Express.

Visa. It's where you want to be.

[LeaderlessResistance]

15. War profiteering At Its Finest And Most Disgusting

War Profiteering At Its Finest And Most Disgusting

Dell is a company that is benefiting from government contracts in Iraq. The company is the Pentagon's top supplier of direct sale personal computers. Its total defense contracts from 1998-2003: over 2 billion ~ $2,190,422,159. Dell's Lobbying Expenditures, directed towards George Bush and the Republican party have skyrocketed since George Bush was elected. This is in addition to the millions of dollars Michael and Susan Dell have personally given George Bush and the Republican Party. (Ref 1)

On March 12, 2003, the U.S. Army Contracting Agency awarded Dell Marketing L.P. a $513,678.88 contract for computer equipment and services in Iraq. (Ref 1)

Chairman and founder Michael S. Dell serves on President Bush's Council of Advisor's on Science and Technology.

In April 2003, President Bush appointed CEO Kevin B. Rollins to serve on the Advisory Committee for Trade Policy Negotiation. (Ref 2)



References:

1. http://www.publicintegrity.org/pns/db.aspx?act=cinfo&coid=114315195

2. http://store.publicintegrity.org/wow/bio.aspx?act=pro&ddlC=13

[daleo]

17. This won't even raise much money

1.2 million users times $230 per year = about $275 million. That's chicken feed next to an annual deficit of $400 billion, and Iraq war costs of (at least) $100 Billion per year.

You wonder why they even bother going after veterans for such chump change, unless it is just to treat them like chumps for the hell of it. I suppose they can make up for it by having a magnetic ribbon on their bumper, though.

[Walt Starr]

18. And SOEM reichwingnuts post on DU about how DUers are against the vets

:eyes:

[Number9Dream]

19. Bush's Veterans Tax

Good one Steve_DeShazer! But I'd like to take it a step further by Calling it "Bush's Veterans Tax". Just like Iraq should be referred to as "Bush's Vietnam". Now, how do we get Congressional Dems to start using the term? I also wish the VFW & American Legion had the balls to speak out against these chickenhawk draft-dodgers.

[recovering democrat]

20. Military recruitment.

Some of our veterans should make sure this information is publicized at recruiting stations for current military recruitment so the people can know what they have to look forward to in the future!

I am way beyond angry with the "SUPPORT THE TROOPS" lies of the Republican administration and Congress.

[Mojambo]

21. We can afford to give Halliburton bonuses

While they rip us off but the life blood of the armed services...

You get to pay!

Sick and wrong.

[El Biggo Doggo]

32. How do you think they'll spin this?

How can this be made to look like it's OUR fault? It's like they're almost trying to give us ammo for 2006! Gannon, paying pundits, stabbing the Religious Right in the back, contemplating war with Iran, and now charging vets for care they were promised?

Seriously. How can they think this isn't going to look bad? is it just a
'grabd the money and run' thing, or do they think Unka Karl is going to be able to spin this?

[Mojambo]

39. They just don't seem to care about public perception anymore

They know they have the voting machines, who needs the voters?

[bearfan454]

40. I believe that is correct. They are saying

Fuck them. We can't be voted out anyway with electronic vote stealing.

[bearfan454]

23. Goddamnit !

This is the only fucking health care I have right now. $250 a year for fucking generic meds ? I hate these motherfuckers !

[rppper]

58. this is bullshit, but vets voted overwhelmingly....

for this ass-hat and his administration. i hope all the old school VF W's who pushed and pushed for this guy are happy...you get what you paid for. oddly enough, the oldest of the vets...the WW2, Korea and early 'Nam era vets...the ones who will be needing these services...are the ones who voted bush in...they will be the biggest complainers, mark my words.

[EFerrari]

75. Could I ask how you know that? After the election, I couldn't

find anything on the military vote.

[Pinboy]

77. Veterans reportedly voted 57% Bush. A (not overwhelming) majority.

[EFerrari]

78. Thanks. I thought it was strange that the military vote was not

trumpeted by the Cabal.

[ElectroPrincess]

85. "vets voted overwhelmingly ... " You don't KNOW that - stop believing

what the Corporate Media spoon feeds you. This veteran was proud to have cast her vote for Kerry.

Further, while we're talking testimonial evidence, I enjoyed the company of MANY veterans and our local H.S. Democrats while I was at our booth (6 hours). I'm holding on to hope ... the last thing we need is to lose the support of our combat vets because folks want to ass-U-me and stereotype the military. Hint - you're being fed propaganda.

I request that you consider listening to the "ask a vet" segment on Air America Radio, and visit sites like Operation Truth, to ascertain the facts from "true veterans" themselves - NOT what the corrupt whorish USA mass media chooses to feed you.

http://www.optruth.org/main.cfm

[Pinboy]

89. You tell it, ElectroPrincess, and thanks for your service

When I was working in the Kerry/Edwards campaign in Columbus, OH, a woman came in with her brother and her mother-in-law to phone bank. The woman was a Desert Storm vet whose husband was serving in Iraq. She asked me for a John Kerry bumper sticker, which we were out of. When she told me it was the one thing her husband had asked her to send him in Iraq, I searched until I found one for her.

[ElectroPrincess]

95. Back at you Pinboy, & Welcome to DU ...

It's great to connect with other military veterans, especially those combat veterans, who have served our country at the highest level.

When our local Democratic Party meets each month, those of us who are vets tend to congregate before and after ... regardless of the service branch or era, the camaraderie between the vast majority of veterans is seemingly omnipresent. Airborne!

[Pinboy]

96. Thanks, Princess. Were you Airborne?

Perhaps a coincidence, but I served in Vietnam as an infantry rifle platoon leader in the 101st Airborne Division. I must admit, though, that I was a "leg" in the 101st, which had gone airmobile (what they now call "air assault").

[ElectroPrincess]

97. Yes, both my older brother and I are Airborne ...

We both went to Fort Benning, GA, for Airborne School, only 12 years apart (67' and 79'). My brother served in the 101st Airborne Division (Screaming Eagles) in Vietnam 67'-68.' He made E-5 before he was rotated out back to the states. I attended Airborne School as a Cadet and served in the active duty army INSCOM from 82'-85'.

Yes, I'm aware that the 101st has gone Air Mobile. Air Assault School isn't a walk in the park either. Still IMO the 101st is an excellent Division.

Too cool! Hear that ear worm "It's a small world after all." LOL

Guess we better stop "old home week" or the rest of DU just may get nauseous.

Best Regards. :hi:

[tinnyguy1777]

98. This old GI (64) sure as hell didn't vote for Shrub.

To hell with that little "wanna-be hero", and all his Repug pals in Congress. You know, the ones who's kids have all done their duty to "God and Country'.

[Deja Q]

24. Well, there goes another incentive to join the military...

what next, I wonder...

[Desertrose]

25. bush- finding out how many ways you can screw the vets...

has yet found another way.

Shameon him & all those who voted him back in!!!!

I think that supporting our vets should entail more than just sending them off to somewhere to fight.....what about when they return to the place they were *supposedly* fighting for in the first place?? Where is the support then???

Empty rhetoric is cheap...actually walking your talk is another thing....

[Divernan]

26. Why would any vet who is "not poor" risk crappy health care from VA?

Given the run down facilities and the months long waiting time for an appointment, I don't understand why any vet who could afford other health care would be using the VA. The article does not specify what the income cut off points are for the "not poor" categories. Any one know?

[Bouncy Ball]

29. I don't know but the problem is, should someone like my husband lose

his health care through his employer, he WOULD have to use VA.

What I mean by this is, my husband's employer, a small business (about 80 employees) is considering dropping health coverage altogether. Yep. That's how expensive it has gotten, both for the employer and the employees. They had two employees in the past three years have cancer and all the treatment that comes with it (one died, one is in remission) and their original providers dropped them, so they had to find another, who is charging higher rates. It's killing them.

So when they do this, my husband will still have a job and will not be considered poor, but he will have to turn to the VA system for health care.

That is an example of a vet who would fall into this category. And he'd apparently have to pay this veteran's tax and get the fairly sub-par VA health care.

[bearfan454]

33. That's exactly what happened to me Bouncy Ball

I had it before I got laid off. Newsflash - As of some time last year the VA wasn't taking any new applications for VA medical care. If you weren't in already, tough shit. I don't know if that has changed or not though.

[Bouncy Ball]

36. WHAT?

So if my husband loses his health insurance that he has now through his job he CAN'T get VA health coverage? Even though he's a veteran with an honorable discharge???

If that's true, we're up shit creek. Seriously.

How much worse can this get?

[bearfan454]

38. Yes that is correct.

The VA sent me a letter stating this last year. They are not taking any new applications until further notice. They might have changed that, but as far as I know it still stands. My VA is for me only. Mrs bearfan isn't covered. I have an honorable discharge and I am a Vietnam Era Veteran. These pieces of shit repukes are fucking sub human.

[bearfan454]

37. Yes I know.

I joined the VA healthcare system 3 years ago because I thought if anything happened and I lost my healthcare at work, I would need some kind of healthcare for all my BP meds. I take a lot of meds. And guess what ? I got laid off and had NO healthcare except for crappy health care from the VA. Anything is better than nothing. Not only that it is my benefit that Clinton got passed in 1996. There is a small VA office in Cedar Park now and it doesn't take 3 months to get an appointment if you go there. The Temple VA sucks.

[hobbit709]

63. The Dallas one

is worse. It was recently rated the worst in the whole VA system.

[Pinboy]

52. Answer . . .

Income cutoffs are roughly $ 25,000 (single) to $ 35,000 (5 dependents).

[DollyM]

56. income cut off

$26 thousand a year with a family is the cut off. A single person, I believe, has to have an income under 24 thousand. Somehow, only allowing 2000 dollars for a family doesn't seem quite right. We don't qualify. My husband does not have health insurance through his job and I am self employed so VA is the only health care that he has. (My son and I have no health insurance either.) He pays 50 dollars for a Dr. visit and drives 70 miles one way to the VA clinic. He could go to our family Dr. and pay 30 a visit and drive 10 miles. The only reason we have stayed with VA is the prescription benefit. (My husband is diabetic so he takes several prescriptions.) If they add an enrollment fee and up the price of prescription drugs, we won't use VA anymore, it just won't be worth it. I think a lot of others will follow suit which is perhaps what they want. I don't see why they don't close the VA clinics and hospitals and let Vets see their own Dr's, just like with Medicare or Medicaid. Surely they would save money by reducing the overhead of all the buildings the maintain as well as the cost of medical personnel, clerical personnel, etc. Hasn't anyone considered this option?

[Divernan]

64. Excellent first post and WELCOME to DU

May I be the first to sing "Hello, Dolly"?
Thanks for the good information.

[Selteri]

30. Sarcasm alert!

Yeah! Who cares about them vetruns, they ain't dun nothin' for us.

The Gulf Waar was just a training exercise, nobody got hurt there.

Vietnam was just a lie, no real american's went there and risked their lives.

The Korean War? Yeah, like you can have a war where there is never a peace agreement!

World Wars 1 and 2? Yeah, like they need any help after they collected all that social security up afterwards.

Vets are just a bunch of whiners.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Sacrasm ended.

What are these people smoking to abuse these people who have served in a way and on a level where there are few other ways to serve your country that are so potentially perilous.

Sacrifice your youth fo the US, especially this war, don't worry, we won't forget you... we'll just help you find where to get the alpo.

[Kimber Scott]

34. I was in priority category 7, or 8, I can't remember which, but I had to

pass a means test to get in. I was POOR! If they had made me pay that fee, I wouldn't have been able to do it. Prescriptions were $11.00. I'm now married to a military retiree and he can use the VA without the means test, but we have signed up for retiree's insurance and go to the base. Prescriptions are free.

[Solly Mack]

35. Wrap yourself in the flag and shout "Support the Troops"

now go back to your lives...nothing to see here lookey-lous.

[nashville_brook]

41. 250 bucks is A LOT of money! looks like a deterrant to healthcare to me.

[bearfan454]

42. That's exactly what it is

This shit is insane. The Dem Senators better filibuster this for REAL !

[Pinboy]

104. BINGO! The VA estimates 213,000 vets would disenroll due to the fee

See:

Military Update: Supporters of VA fee say it's an issue of equality
Monday, February 28, 2005

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=26504&archive=true

[Rex]

43. Chicken Hawks fuck our vets and no one says shit about it.

Fucking media whores!!!

[Conservativesux]

59. Cannon fodder just like Vietnam. Most people dont give a damn about Vets.

[sonsera]

44. It’s not a slam dunk according to “Stars and Stripes”

Sen. John Rockefeller of West Virginia predicted the enrollment fee and drug co-pays will get an “automatic rejection, I think, in both houses.”

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=26504&archive=true

[bearfan454]

54. I sure as hell hope so.

Filibuster at minimum.

[lanlady]

45. I don't find this so unreasonable

It's being asked of vets who can afford it, and for something not related to their military service. Maybe I'm in a minority here, but I don't see why my taxes should keep subsidizing vets every stage of their life for everything they want.

[mbperrin]

49. I'd like to express myself here, but

no.

[Pinboy]

50. "Subsidizing Vets"?

Don't buy into this Administration's attempts to "welfarize" the VA. VA health care for vets is NOT, repeat, NOT, a handout. This is a benefit EARNED by military service to the nation.

Check out Larry Scott's excellent article, "Welfarizing the VA" at:

http://www.military.com/Opinions/0,,Scott_011905-P1,00.html

[NickB79]

57. Why should your taxes go to "subsidizing" vets?

Um, maybe because THEY FOUGHT AND RISKED DEATH AND SERIOUS INJURY FOR YOU TO HAVE THE RIGHTS YOU HAVE TODAY!!!!

Jesus, these are the same guys who stormed the beaches at Normandy, or Iwo Jima. Ya think MAYBE, just MAYBE they'd get a little respect and health care?

[lanlady]

102. sure, like my stepfather

Spent 2 years in the Marines, mid-1950s, just missed the Korean War.

A couple of years ago, when he became ill (and died), he had first-rate, practically cost-free medical care at the VA hospital in West Haven, CT, plus funeral benefits.

That was great for him, and for us as his family. And all that just for swatting mosquitos at Camp Lejeune 40+ years ago.

[Divernan]

66. Don't be suckered in by Bush's "not poor" definition!

See Dolly's most excellent first post, above. Get real! A $26,000 income cut off for a family!?!?!? Without health insurance, people in that income range cannot afford hardly any health care. And if they happen to have any kind of chronic and/or serious health problem, they are in serious trouble.
You make a very sweeping comment about "subsidizing vets every stage of their life for everything they want". Please give examples of "everything they want". I am not aware that the pathetic VA hospitals are equipped with state of the art facilities or performing liver transplants, etc. Although given the exposure of our troops to many toxic substances, many of them may need and be entitled to liver transplants.

As to VA mortgages, and education assistance, as well as health care for veterans - this is NOT A HANDOUT. These benefits are part of the legal contract known as enlistment. You know, contracts are where each side promises something to the other. And these benefits are what induce people to sign up for highly dangerous and low paid jobs in the military. Take a look at what the mercenaries and privatized employees are being paid to go to Iraq - around 4 times what the soldiers are being paid for the same job!

[LynnTheDem]

81. All I will say is

:wow:

[Bridget Burke]

90. Rich = $26,000 per family per year?

How much are they paying network folks in your area? Minimum wage? Someone earning so little ought not be so concerned about taxes.

"Everything they want"? You mean, permission to be treated at a hospital. Not the nicest places, some of them. And not convenient--they keep closing them. But those benefits were guaranteed when the vets served. What if "everything they want" is to have those years back?

[Pinboy]

93. Good point, Bridget

To have back those years when our peers were advancing in their education and careers . . . to have our youth back . . . to have our innocence back . . .

At the very least, to be able to believe that our government will honor the contract . . .

[lanlady]

100. all I'm saying

I'm not against giving vets hospital care or any of that. But there are many others who serve this country--aid workers, embassy staffs, Peace Corps volunteers, teachers--who get no recognition or special bennies, and I think it's wrong.

[Guckert]

46. Bush calls it the "Freedom and Liberty fee". Bush loves the troops,

CHEAP OIL and WAR PROFITEERING.

[rasputin1952]

47. As a Veteran, I find this appalling! bush never had to use VA services.

Once again, a slap in the face for those who served their nation when called upon.

I cannot say how much I LOATHE this cowardly bastard.

To cut the costs of the tax cut, those who served, regardless of status, must now pay for medical care above what is already carried by them. We paid when we served! Something bush never had to do.

caveat: I refused my disability, so that others may benefit. I could work, and many of those I served with were in dire shape. This is so repulsive, it just shows me what scorn this evil administration treats our brothers and sisters in arms...:grr:

[jmcon007]

48. Bush & Co. feel for veterans like myself....

They feel us up one side and down the other for loose change because, after all, we have to do our part to help pay for the obscene and economically dibilitating tax cut given to their rich buds.

[jody]

51. I do object to people worth millions of dollars using VA for health care.

I have friends like that who served in WWII and Korea and the new fees would not bother them.

I also know people who are virtually destitute and they cannot afford the new fees.

VA needs additional funds but it also needs to revise policies that let wealthy veterans use scarce resources at the expense of those who are truly in need.

[saigon68]

79. NO MILLIONAIRES USE THE VA

The sight of homeless, lice infested, unshaved PTSD Patients turns most millionaires OFF

The idea that a toothless homeless Veteran in the next bed would chase most "MILLIONAIRES" right out of the leaky cold substandard HOSPITAL

[MsMagnificent]

55. Yep, more troop supporting!

*'s rich cronies just get richer, and the Troops --contemporary and veterans-- get shat upon
just as they're mounting an offense against our elderly now.

You know, one day the Freeper's & that ilk are going to wake up and find that despite the cheerleading and talking points of Oxycontin boi et al, it's not going to be someone else's problem -- THEY and THEIR FAMILY are going to get hit... because they belong to the Reprobate Party won't immunize them from random, statistical fate.

And I mean all of titular "Government aid" -- health care, veterans benefits, inability to sue for appropriate monetary damages due to a corporation, MD, etc. mistakes, negligence etc. to name a few
That is, if they can bring forth a suit at ALL!

Law of averages is going to catch up to these people.
Then we'll hear some REAL whining.

[moondust]

60. Many, many must sacrifice for the holy tax cuts. n/t

[napi21]

61. There's more behind this than we know.

A lady I worked with, who is a vet from the Vietnam era, was refused insurance coverage for certain things, by our company's insuranace plan, BECAUSE SHE WAS COVERED BY THE VETERANS INSURANCE!

I certainly had never heard of this before, and when she challenged it, she lost the fight.

I think the Republican contributing insurance companies are behind this, because they don't want to pay claims that can be covered by the gov't plan, and the gov't is trying to crawl out of having to pay, or at least recover part of the expense directly from the Vet.

[theHandpuppet]

65. The amount these vets will have to pay...

... is nearly equivalent, to millions of them, in the "tax cuts" Herr Bush so touted during his political campaigning. So in the end he takes back the tax cuts for the working classes while the rich still rake it in.

What a nasty little sleight of hand -- but anyone who voted for Bush thinking this man really cared for working folks, vets, or truly possessed some modicum of human decency was a fool.

[Renew Deal]

67. This didn't go to a full house and senate vote?

[Armin Tamzarian]

68. And how many of you want government to run your health care?

Think about it

[Divernan]

70. As opposed to profit driven hospitals & pharmaceutical companies?

The problem under Bush is that the FDA has been neutered and our citizens are being exposed to dangerous (but oh-so-highly profitable new drugs) which have been removed from the market in countries like England because of their toxic effects.

What would you choose - unaffordable health care, i.e., NO health care, or a government run health care system? That's a no-brainer.

[area51]

74. Hear, hear. (n/t)

[rooboy]

84. PICK ME, PLEASE!!!!

I have a government run health care system and it is EXCELLENT!!! Last time I went to the doctor it only cost me FIVE BUCKS, and I got to choose the doctor!

If I have chest pain, I can phone up the state government-run ambulance service and get a ride to the state government-run hospital (which is the BETTER than any of the private hospitals) and get treated by a top doctor FREE OF CHARGE.

Thanks for reminding me - it's good to think about it.

[Pinboy]

87. Congrats, mate

I'm guessing from your "handle" that you're an Aussie. I have a buddy in Sydney who is an Aussie Vietnam vet (3rd Royal Australian Regiment). Because he's a disabled vet, they send a car to take him to his medical appointments. Of course, he also gets free public transportation anytime and free admittance to movie theaters.

[rooboy]

88. There is actually a cabinet position in our government...

called "Minister for Veterans Affairs". Mistreating veterans is a sure way to lose your party an election over here.

[Pinboy]

92. Unfortunately, you can mistreat vets here and still get re-elected . . .

judging by our recent election result. But no worries, mate -- we're working to change that . . .

[NickB79]

86. As opposed to living without ANY health care whatsoever?

Hmmm, go ask someone living on the streets, hacking up a lung as they die slowly of TB, and ask them if they're really opposed to government-run healthcare.

In case you haven't noticed, there are more completely uninsured Americans today than ever before. Anything is better than nothing when you're in desperate need of medical attention.

[Bridget Burke]

91. As opposed to HMO's making all the decisions?

Luckiy, my job offers medical benefits. But they've gotten worse in recent years--actually, dating from the time when Bush was Governor here.

I hear lots of good things about the Canadian system. From Canadians.

[LynnTheDem]

80. republican "supporting the troops"...hold down costs by screwing the vets!

That's the republican way. Rah rah republicans!

[rooboy]

83. One way to keep costs down is to stop starting wars. n/t

[Massachusetts]

94. Bu$hco = AntiAmerican..when does the other 50% get it?

"The Bush administration proposed the enrollment fee to hold down costs. The VA committees rejected another Bush proposal to raise co-payments on VA-filled prescriptions for these same priority 7 and 8 veterans".

[Q3JR4]

99. My dumbass mis-representative at work again. n/t

[rodeodance]

101. sounds like a needs test tax (those who can afford will pay tax)

[KittyWampus]

103. So This Is A Veterans Tax