Governors Sound Alert on U.S. High Schools

[leftchick]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=716&e=6&u=/ap/20050227/ap_on_re_us/governors_high_schools


"We can't keep explaining to our nation's parents or business leaders or college faculties why these kids can't do the work," said Virginia Democratic Gov. Mark Warner, as the state leaders convened for the first National Education Summit aimed at rallying governors around high school reform.

<snip>

At least one agreement is likely. Achieve, a nonprofit group formed by governors and corporate leaders, plans to announce Sunday that roughly 12 states are committing to raise high school rigor and align their graduation requirements with skills demanded in college or work.


The high school summit drew at least 45 governors from the 50 states and five U.S. territories, along with top names in U.S. industry and education. The leaders broke into groups late in the day to debate ideas, and planned to do the same through Sunday.


Most of the summit's first day amounted to an enormous distress call, with speakers using unflattering numbers to define the problem. Among them: Of every 100 ninth-graders, only 68 graduate high school on time and only 18 make it through college on time, according to the National Center for Public Policy and Higher Education.

[purduejake]

1. Bill Gates

Also recently made a speech lambasting the educational system saying that it is obsolete.

[Deja Q]

6. Yeah, from a guy who dropped out no less! Look it up. He's a flunkie.

Not only that, he attached to IBM like a bloodsucker would a fish with 'his' DOS product (which he ultimately had to buy from someone else) to get into the door, mooched off of IBM when teaming up with them to make the next-generation operating system (which was to be OS/2) until his secret little kiddie OS "Windows 3.0" made it big and became ubiquitous, at which time they ditched IBM like a john would a hooker. IBM and Microsoft then got into legal battles and Microsoft got the much better deal out of the 'divorce'.

He's got corporate smarts. All corporations do is to cheat, borrow, buy, steal, plunder, and whine about laws that pertain to their 'business' practices.

[Trillo]

13. But when will the reign of corporations be finished? Ever?

A educational system that doesn't teach one to "cheat, borrow, buy, steal, plunder,..." when prevailing success stories for the last 100 years have been comprised of those that do just that to the extent the laws allow them to, then one must call into question the whole basis of education, or "indoctrination."

Either prepare the students by giving them the skills they need to thrive in the "reality-based" world, or change the world in such a way that what is taught by HS is "valued" by the system when those students have graduated and need to "live in reality."

If educators are going to do the later, then how many generations of students are they willing to sacifice in the wait for the world they hope to create?

[Occulus]

20. that'll happen when we defeat corporate personhood. n/t

[barb162]

15. and his daddy the lawyer helped him out a lot too writing the IBM

deals

[Trillo]

12. Do HS properly prepare one to have a job

that compensates fairly based upon time spent in a classroom seat versus those of college education?

Does HS prepare graduates to earn enough to survive in self-employed activities where employment in a corporation or proprietorship is not desired?

If specialization is where all the highest paying endeavors are, then why is the HS curriculum general instead of specific?

Can HS ever train students well enough that they won't be, to use a metaphor, hosts for parasites?

[barb162]

17. Don't you think the curriculum has to be general? So many

people have no idea what they want to do in life when they are 16.

I would like to see four years of science and math as minimum graduation requirements.

[Trillo]

19. It is a point that can be debated.

I'd like to see high school graduates be able to file a competent lawsuit, learn how to "document" something, etc. The judicial branch today fails to grant justice to many, because many don't know how to file a lawsuit, nor can they afford a lawyer for many types of cases. This means that very few of 75% of the population will ever experience judicial branch justice. So well-heeled entities with their lawyers walk all over them, because they know the majority don't have the "tools" to enforce the law.

I remember that when I was in the 7th grade, the private school campus entrance exam tested me at college-level reading and writing comprehension. By the 8th grade, the English teachers there had convinced me I couldn't write or read. During this same year, I remember wondering whether I should prepare myself to study law; to this day I can remember the grass I was walking on while I asked myself this question, it was a bright and sunny day. After due consideration, I decided no, because I'd read that lawyers needed to be good at English.

Ironic, no?

[shrike]

35. It should give them a basic knowledge of English and Math

I was speaking with the owner of a local steel company, known as a "Mini-Mill." He told me, off the record, that his pool of job applicants is consistently "terrible." They can't read well enough to fill out a job application and have trouble with addition and subtraction. And these are native-born Americans.

[Trillo]

36. Interesting. Why aren't those that are good at math and English

applying to him? I know there are some.

Perhaps most of those students go on to college, and then command too much salary for that employer's liking?

A really big problem is the poor rate of pay for those with HS education, regardless of their competency. Where's the incentive for this group to excel in HS studies if they can't afford or for some other reason won't continue to and complete college, when the jobs they qualify for pay low wages?

I saw below (I think it was this thread, there's several of the same topic this morning), someone suggested, in a well thought out posting, plumbing, carpentry, or some other highly skilled trade. These trades require apprenticeship, usually in the neighborhood of 4 years, before one can hang out the sign "licensed contractor." Why would someone go to school for 12 years, + kindergarten and perhaps preschool, making 14 years total, to work for someone who pays low wages during the apprenticeship period and will "teach" them how to do something?

After 14 years, for those who aren't academically inclined, a LOT of psyche damage has been done by some of the teachers as well as administration. Isn't that the "real" purpose of today's HS?

[dsc]

2. Of those two numbers, high schools are only responsible for the first

and raising graduation standards only would make that number worse. The second number (18% through college on time) is at least as much the fault of colleges as it is of high schools. The most common causes of not making it are financial, and alcohol/drug related.

[flygal]

3. Right!

I believe the real problem is economical. Parents are working longer and harder for less. Min wage jobs don't make for a "nuclear" family to support the needs of high school students. The most important years the children need parents they are allowed to be home alone - and usually are.

But, that wouldn't help the agenda of privatizing schools so never mind.

[ikojo]

18. I agree with this to a point....when Jews came to this country in large

numbers approx. 100 years ago...they did not speak the language and they definitely worked long arduous hours in the sweatshops and at home doing piece work. When their kids went to school,the classes were overcrowded, the language was English and the culture was WASP. This community, we can say, achieved great things within a generation. I think the key is they had a culture of learning that supported education.

There is no culture of learning in the US. American culture is EXTREMELY anti intellectual. The kids inculcate this message and perform accordingly. Sports uber alles is what they hear from the time they are in pee wee league to high school graduation.

[Straight Shooter]

21. "American culture is EXTREMELY anti-intellectual."

Amen. With a fool in the White House, one with the intellectual curiousity of a pencil eraser, what kind of example does that set? Kerry was actually mocked for having high intelligence, as if that's something to be ashamed of now.

And it isn't just having intelligence, it's a matter of applying that intelligence, and using it wisely. We see so little of that.

Our culture has become all style, no substance. And if you go straight to the top, the White House, we see neither style nor substance. No wonder the light of hope is dimming in America.

[barb162]

26. Yes, Bush sets a terrible example. He got everything because of

his connections

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. Speaking of shrub,

NCLB does NOT apply to high schools.

Go figure. :wtf:

[Undercover Owl]

39. NCLB does not apply to high schools?

Are you sure about that? I think NCLB does apply to high schools. (Not that NCLB does any good).

I do know that recruiters must be allowed to recruit on high school property, or else the high school loses federal funding.

[dsc]

42. It does

All the standards of NCLB apply to high schools.

[proud2BlibKansan]

44. No they don't

There is some talk that shrub is considering extending the accountability standards but right now they only apply to grades 3 thru 8.

[proud2BlibKansan]

43. High Schools are NOT held accountable

for test scores under NCLB. Kids are tested in grades 3 thru 8 only.

I think that recruiting deal is part of another ESEA law. But it could be in NCLB also. I read it but it's 350 pages long, so I could have missed the recruiting part.

[barb162]

25. I noticed this same thing with the Asian families in my area. On

the first day of school, the couple next door had the whole family came to the house doing a big celebration. There were about 20 relatives there because the younger child was having his first day of first grade. They really emphasize the importance of education to the child. They also have a music teacher come in a few times a week to teach piano.

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. Back in the 80s, when we were swamped with Asian immigrants

I taught in an elementary school that had a program for Asian kids who needed ESL classes. The majority of their parents did not speak English. Yet, they showed up 100% for parent teacher conferences, even though many had no transportation and came from clear across town. Many of the parents who lived in the neighborhood didn't come for conferences, yet we could always count on every single Asian family to come. The oldest child translated and the entire family would berate the student if they weren't excelling in school.

We also had the most wonderful Chinese New Year celebrations at that school. All the Asian kids would bring food for a luncheon for the teachers and it lasted for days, there was so much of it.

I now teach in a largely Hispanic school and those parents are also incredibly supportive.

[orpupilofnature57]

4. We need a "To Sir with love" on a mass scale, sycophancy new order..

of the day, service ala service,narcissistic fibrosis and all the other maladies that come along with being on top for 200 years.

[Tux]

5. Finally

With all the talk of sex ed and Bible studies, we need to change high school from a center for factory worker training to training for college or at least some form of decent job. I have a job interview/test this Friday were many people here can't read past the 6th grade level. If we drop sex ed (parents should teach it at home) and religious stuff (church or home) and focus on literacy, mathmatics, computers, and some skilled trade, our nation would become stronger.

Also, I'd like to see all students treated equally were parental "contributions" to schools won't determine who gets the good classes and who gets the shaft. I got the shaft on classes, high school tried to mess up my entry to college and I still got a bachelor's and about to enter grad school. An even ground for education since our nation is lagging behind. If we do that, companies may not need to send jobs overseas.

[ikojo]

27. I was from a low income single parent and extremely dysfunctional

family. I was also bullied from the second grade to my sophomore year in high school. The only involvement my mom had in any of my schooling was in defending me to the adminstration and trying her best to get them to do something about the bullying I endured.

As I entered middle school, I thought I wanted to be in the special ed classes because that's where many of my friends were. I am so glad that a sixth grade English teacher saw that I had potential. She showed me that I was smart.

Once I got in high school I took all the high track classes I could. I even attempted Advanced Algebra, in which I got a C only because the teacher knew how hard I tried and he knew I wanted to go to college. My math studies ended with that class.

What happened with me is that I found a group of people who were outcasts like myself. We wanted to do well and competed to see whose class rank improved the most over a semester. The day class ranks were available, a line of the kids in the high track classes formed outside the guidance counselor's office, wanting to see how they were doing.

I did all of this on my own with no parental supervision. I even selected my own high school course work. The only advice my mom gave me was to take a typing class (now called keyboarding and offered to second graders) because I may have to be a secretary one day (those were her aspirations for me, I wanted to be a lawyer). I read the college admission books and took the course work recommended in them (math, science, languages etc) and made sure I was in the appropriate after school activities (community service orgs etc).

I graduated in the top 10% of my class and was the FIRST person in my family to attend college.

I did go to college but did not make it because I was POOR. I mean so poor there were times I had NO FOOD even though I worked while in school. It got too tough, during the Reagan years, to pay tuition, pay rent, buy books and food that I finally got tired of going hungry and worrying about how I was going to support myself. Had I not been doing this totally alone and had some sort of support system, I might have made it.

I have not stopped learning however.

[stepnw1f]

33. Your Experience Sounds Like Mine

You learn how to tough things out, but you also realise things never needed to be so hard, especially in such a so-called rich country that suposedly wants to be the BEST.

I was the first boy in the family to attend college. I made it while being surrounded by many numb-nuts who thought a college education was for pussies. Incredible.

I bet these same dumb asses voted for the Dark Prince himself. I've fallen out of contact with them due to their unrelenting ignorance and an unwillingness to learm or listen. These are the folks that we now fight this culture war with. These are the folks that keep getting duped into blaming intelligence for the failing of the society in which they live in.

Little do they realise it was the uncool kid paying his way through college that was trying to warn them. Now they just do what they are being programmed to do by the Right-Wing politico hacks on talk radio and Fox News.

Once again the people in this country have become their worst own enemies!

[Cooley Hurd]

7. That's what happens when you spend all your money on...

...a failed war (that keeps sucking the $$$). Fed has little money to give to the states, who in turn can't help the individual districts. Money to pay for books, computers, soccer balls, busing and, last but never least, TEACHERS.

This is a problem that mirrors the federal defecit every time there is a federal defecit - and the federal defecit mirrors what party is in power (i.e. Rethugs).

Every Child Left Behind...

[leftchick]

10. Check this out... It is much worse: "Bush's 'priceless' war "

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/GB25Ak01.html

Bush's 'priceless' war
By David Isenberg

WASHINGTON - Although the exact cost of the Iraq invasion to the American taxpayer is not known, recent figures suggest it is a lot more than has been publicly suggested and will grow considerably higher. Part of the problem in estimating costs is that the war is obviously not over; it just keeps going, and going, and going.

According to a report on the cost of the war in Iraq released last week by the Democratic staff of the House Budget Committee, the war and ongoing insurgency could cost the United States between US$461 billion and $646 billion by 2015, depending on the scope and duration of operations.

The difference between the low and high-end estimates depends on potential costs in 2006 and beyond. The lower figure is based on a US withdrawal of forces within four years, per Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's prediction that all US troops could be withdrawn from Iraq by the end of 2008. The second estimate reduces US forces to 40,000 by 2010, per a previously released Congressional Budget Office model.

The Budget Committee report estimates are higher than previous estimates for several reasons: the war is lasting longer and is more intense, and the cost to keep US troops in the theater of operations is proving to be greater, than anyone anticipated

... read the whole thing! It is a perfect example of how AmeriKans are being hoodwinked by the BFEE.

[Cooley Hurd]

11. We'll have a built-in defecit for 20+ years...

Glad I'm personally debt-free. Things are gonna get ugly here once those nations which hold our debt call in their chits:

Hooverville will be renamed Bushville...:(

[lanlady]

8. guess who WASN'T at the high school summit

"Among the more high-profile governors who did not attend Saturday were two Republicans: Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger of California and Jeb Bush of Florida, the president's brother."

[leftchick]

9. no surprise there eh?

that is why they are called repukes... :puke:

[davsand]

14. We really need to examine what role we want schools to play.

Something I have thought about for quite a while is the idea that we are expecting too much from all of our schools. We expect that the schools will teach our kids enough skills to carry them all the way to a college graduation AND we expect them to have sports teams and the arts...

Now, before anybody gets all mad at me for suggesting we take away high school football or band, THAT is not what I am saying. While I am open about the fact that I think football and basketball probably need to be self funded (should read that as club sports)I understand that will probably never happen because they are too deeply ingrained in our culture here in the US.

What I AM talking about is the lack of emphasis on actual subject matter with academic validity or real life application. I appreciate the difficulty of creating a curriculum that is current yet interesting, but I think we have given up on a lot of the stuff kids need in the interest of "progress".

Last year I did some media work for a few of the local labor unions. They wanted to increase the number of people who build with union labor and they wanted to increase the number of applicants for union apprenticeship programs.

I got to know several of the folks who do the apprentice training and recruiting. They were unanimous in saying the kids were coming into the programs without the basic skills they needed to become tradesmen.

When I asked for specifics they all mentioned basic stuff like knowing enough math to find the square footage of a room. I asked them why they thought this had become such a problem and they all mentioned both the lack of industrial arts training in schools AND the lack of attention paid to the trades as possible career paths.

One guy looked me dead in the eye and said, "They all want to be basketball players. The schools never talk about the skilled trades as a possibility."

I'll grant you, being a bricklayer is not all that sexy, and being a plumber is not a suit and tie job. However, if you have EVER had to pay for a plumber to come and fix anything in your house, you know durn well those guys are NOT going home empty handed at the end of the pay period. The same goes for electricians and skilled carpenters.

Meanwhile, we cut programs in schools claiming we don't have enough funding--yet we manage to raise money for new band uniforms and football helmets. We eliminate programs like basic science where you learn about basic electrical circuitry--and we make sure the English department gets 35 new copies of Cliff Notes for Wuthering Heights.

We've lost academic credibility AND we've lost functionality.

We've lost our way.


Laura

[TxGran]

29. Reform

There is a reform movement that is trying to change the way American high schools are structured. We are working to move away from the large factory model. The Gates Foundation is one of our largest supporters.


http://www.essentialschools.org/

[haele]

32. One of the problems comes from the lack of reality in the schools -

From what I've seen in "trends of modern corporate education", I have no wonder as to why our children are bored out of their skulls and cannot seem to get past the "all upfront and spelled out, requires no real logic or imagination" video game or TV entertainment for their motivational activity. If all they have to do in school is sit down, supposedly read and listen, take quizzes and tests and act like good little boys and girls - there's no challenge for them to grow and explore their possibilities.

People, especially when they're children - learn in a combination of several different styles and varying levels; some people learn best in a more tactile-driven environment, some people in a visually-driven, and a very few people in an audio-driven. But psychologically, the most important part of the learning experience to most children is the ability to show a product as "progress" after any session of learning.

Interspersing the typical "sit down, shut up, and listen" type of classes - the 3 "R"'s (and History, unfortunately) - with "expensive electives" of Art (Music, Drama, and Art), "Life Skills" (Science Lab/Shop/Home Ec.) and Sports (or P.E.) play an critical part in the healthy learning capability of a child as those activities provide instant feed back and creates the motivation to continue towards some form of excellence.

A child cannot really engage the entire learning functions of the brain if you sit him or her down for an entire day with only a test at the end. All s/he learns to do is to put up with a static environment and perform a routine - and how long does a child need to continue learning to perform that?
Where's the learning about initiative, how to create confidence to try new ways of doing/looking at a problem or situation, how to use logic to get to a result, how the choices one takes affects an outcome? There needs to be a great deal of interaction to get the brain to process the learning functions...

What children need to learn as well as the facts and figures that school provides is how to recognize a change in a situation and how to adapt to it the process of "learning to make a logical, realistic observation". They need be be learning about how to research - "learn what making an effort actually is and feels like". They need to be learning about taking responsibility for their actions and the consequences of those actions - "learn to make a decision, and follow through with it".

These things are critical for survival, whether one lives in the city or in the wilderness, no matter what type of job one does. Without observation, decision-making, and effort, one only floats through an unhappy, unfulfilled life as a drone.

I'm the daughter of educators, and am now helping to raise a thirteen year old who has never learned any of the three processes above that my brother and I, and most of my peers, had learned by the entry into adolescence back in the 1970's, even when the educational system in the US had begun to decline.
When I went to school in "the big city", there was still the feeling of confidence and satisfaction with exploring Art and learning to make an effort to continue feeling that satisfaction. There was the learning to deal with the "horrors" of socialization/team building and physical effort with P.E. and Sports, the discipline of body and temper. There was learning spacial and mental logic through performing the "hands on" research and steps to complete projects in Science Lab and Shop.
Now, all these things are considered "frivolous expenses" and "liberal" (therefore, unnecessary and a waste of time at best).
Heck, if taking tests is all the school districts think are important and to be stressed, end "schooling" at 6th grade and pump 'em all into a trade or educational finishing school, 'cause those children can't continue sitting down and doing the same routine over and over without starting to lose critical thought capability.
Start the kids working - as apprentices and/or real jobs by the time they're 15/16 - like in the bad old days of 19th century America, where everyone supposedly knew their place in life.
At least in those days, kids came out of school with the ability to function with real life on their own...their logic and initiative skills had not turned to mush by the time they left "public schoolin'".
All the "electives" mentioned above - Art, Sports, "life skills" - are instrumental in developing and advancing the critical survival skills both to observe, adapt, and hopefully flourish. Frankly, a school that doesn't have these "frivolous, wasteful" electives is nothing more than a public supported babysitter/holding tank for the "parents" while they're away at work for 12 years...at least in the bad old days, if there wasn't money for the electives at the schools, the kids were going home to actual work at home that would develop the skills that would normally be developed by these electives. Nowadays, there isn't any "chores" or learning done at home - it's all the rewards that were normally given to kids after the chores were completed - malls, games, "hanging out" and empTV. All the rewards for no effort.

It's frustrating that to too many people in American Society - especially parents, who should be concerned about the future of their children, just answering a multiple choice question successfully and not acting out in class is the sign of a school success. Hey, that's less money they have to shell out in taxes to keep the "schools" open.

My two bits.

Haele

[barb162]

16. What I notice is how many kids are A and B students and they

can't spell, they can't tell you where Iraq is on a map, they can't write a coherent sentence let alone a coherent paragraph, etc. I guess teachers are just passing these kids along as the parents scream otherwise. I get a kick out of seeing these bumper stickers on the SUVs: my daughter is an A student at_____School.

The testing groups for the ACT and SAT have also dumbed down the scoring twice now in the last few years. It's a lot easier to get an 800 now than it was 20 years ago.

[ikojo]

22. There are many kids who get As and Bs because they

are very good at taking tests and regurgitating what their teachers tell them. Critical thinking is not taught in most of the nation's public high schools, lest the kids begin to question the economic system of the US and its built in system of inequality.

[barb162]

30. Critical thinking ,sadly, is not being taught and neither are the

basics.

[ikojo]

23. This is being shown on C-SPAN I

Bill Gates is speaking right now. He's saying a lot of things that make sense....high school curriculum needs to be relevant to today's work.

I attended a working class high school in Springfield IL and it seemed that the emphasis was on punctuality more than on critical thinking. Of course an employer does not want an employee who asks questions (such as moi) but rather one who is on time and a good soldier.

[fortyfeetunder]

40. Hey Bill, what's relevant...hmmm?

As entry level jobs get outsourced to any country who wants to work for pennies...what is relevant? Walmart greeter? Hamburger flipper?

Microsoft is building technology centers in India and I think China, while Bill's worried about trained workers in the US?

People aren't going to risk educating themselves in jobs that may no longer exist when they've graduated.

[EndElectoral]

24. Rethinking the whole process.....

As a professor I see so many kinds who (a) don't belong in college because they don't want to be there, they simply are told that's what they're supposed to do, (b) have had little or no counseling about career, (c) have been basically given grades without sufficient skills to function well in college.

Personally, I think High School needs rethought. The concept of everyone going to college and receiving placement via a No Child Left Behind SAT/ACT type of format training is not working effectively.

I think (a) more counseling is needed, and good counseling on career paths (b) more apprenticeship programs integrated into schools (c) functioning citizen courses - current events, civics (d) more reading and literature courses and less math, science and technolgy based courses except for those who wish to pursue them - I still have never applied psychics and geometry to a damn thing I do and I got A's in them. (e) more parent accountability (f) less reliance on standardized testing and more on personal evaluations by apprenticeship overseers and teachers (g) administration support to fail students not working and not performing. (h) alternative job placement services for those unable to actually compete in a college environment effectively including the non-graduate programs.

Measuring our success rate by how many high school students graduated is hogwash if in fact that measurement does not effectively prepare the student to pursue a path. A standardized test measures little in my opinion. A discussion with a student about a book such as Farewell to Arms reveals a lot more.

Some of our greatest innovators and minds never completed their studies. Teachers can attempt to motivate and excite students, but sitting in a chair all day without practical application bores most except the most self-disciplined.

I applaud the Governors attempts. I just hope they don't use it as a venue for mroe standrdized testing, OR to force everyone to pursue a path of more science and technology. Many simply cannot do it or are not interested in doing it. Forcing learning already begins from your own end zone.

As to extra curricular activities - I personally think awareness of the arts is sorely lacking in our country, as do I think the lack of foreign language training is lacking, as well as the awareness of the beleifs of various religions of people. We spend a great deal on athletics in our school, but it only affects a limited few according to the physical conditioning of our young people. Exercise should be a regular part of going to school, especially since most learning is so mental at this point. kids no longer go and work on the farm after school so get little exercise except with their gameboy.

I think if too much money is going to only one group of people at the school, then that needs to be re-examined, except for those with speciaal needs. They've been dealt a bum break and as a society we need to help those kids the most.

[barb162]

31. Shouldn't every high school graduate have a few years of history,

geography, foreign language plus 4 yrs. of English, math and science? And I mean rigorous course work with lots of writing, lots of pertinent homework, etc. I remember my first English course as a freshman in high school. For the term papers, the teacher put us down a grade for every spelling or other error, such as punctuation, and that was before she even got to the content of the paper. The highest grade in the class was a "C" and she gave two of them that year. You know what? We worked our tails off but we learned a lot. This was years ago before grade inflation.

[EndElectoral]

48. Grade inflation...

Grade inflation is horrific today It does a disservice to opur students, their parents, the teachers, and the country, but it is here BIG TIME.

I agree history is important, but there is one huge difference between when I went to school and today. An unbeleivable emphasis on technology as the answer to everything. A basic curriculum no longer can include everything effectively. And therein lies the rub.

Better counseling and early targeting of student's needs wants, etc is critical, and these get short shrift. Everyone wants our students to be well versed in history, science, math, technology, the arts, physical education, humanities, literature, english, foreign languages, life skills, etc. The problem is I'm not sure it can be done effectively. After all there is 30-40 years of additional history these students need to know as well as science.

The purpose of education needs to be reviewed and discussed. Is it job oriented? Is it preparation for college? What is it's function, and what should the essentials be in today's world?

[barb162]

49. In Eastern Europe the students get all these subjects and in an

in-depth fashion

[janx]

28. I love your weimie pic! n/t

[MrTriumph]

34. Texas State standards damage education

There is rebellion here in Tarrant County, a Republican stronghold, as students and parents protest against state mandated tests. Last week students at one high school wore shirts with anti-test messages. Naturally, the h.s. administration confiscated the shirts. (Incidently, to date they have not been returned contrary to a pledge to return them that same afternoon).

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. Texas is fighting NCLB

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/3057839

State defies U.S. rules on grading schools

Faced with the prospect of tagging nearly half of the state's school districts with failing grades under the federal accountability system, Texas Education Commissioner Shirley Neeley instead changed the rules to reduce the number of failing schools sixfold.

The move, described by some as a direct challenge to the U.S. Department of Education's enforcement of the controversial No Child Left Behind Act, sets up a potential showdown between Neeley and the Bush administration.

National education observers said Neeley's move makes Texas the first state to outright refuse to follow the law's requirements.

The disagreement centers on the federal government's requirement that schools exempt no more than 1 percent of their students from testing because of learning disabilities. Once a school crosses that 1 percent special education threshold, any additional students must be counted as failing. In Texas, nearly 10 percent of all students don't take the Texas Assessment of Knowledge and Skills because of their special education needs. Instead, they take a state-mandated alternative test.

[mbperrin]

41. I guess I'd feel better if the last time this group got together,

they hadn't come up with No Child Left Untested by Giant Corporate Conglomerates Utilizing Machine Gradeable Tests at Great Expense to the Taxpayers and No Discernible Benefit to Education.

I teach high school, and I'm always heartened by the energy and intelligence shown by those I teach, as well as their good humor. When I look around, I wonder which jobs are being undone? I am fed when I go out, medical treatments are underway, garbage is being picked up, books are being written, art is being produced and sold, and so on.

This country leads the world in new patents, still has the highest standard of living on average (yes, I sure do know we have plenty of problems, but these 18 year olds didn't make them).

When I look for skill deficiencies, I look for the basic lack of humanity and empathy in people like Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, and Rumsfeld. THEY are creating the world of violence, terror, and upheaval that we live in, and the last time I checked, they've all been out of high school a long time.

Could schools be better ? Sure. All it will take is more resources (code word: money), and before anyone tells me how throwing money at problems doesn't solve them, I beg to differ: when I have a gasoline problem, the station takes money and solves it; when I have a food problem, the store and the restaurant take money and solve it; when I need electricity, I need money, and so on. So yes, if we want more in the future from education, it will cost more. I think it would be well-spent (obviously ;)), but those who think that they can test and bully into excellence are either deluded or the owners of the tests.

[GaYellowDawg]

46. EXCELLENT point!!

Sure. All it will take is more resources (code word: money), and before anyone tells me how throwing money at problems doesn't solve them, I beg to differ: when I have a gasoline problem, the station takes money and solves it; when I have a food problem, the store and the restaurant take money and solve it; when I need electricity, I need money, and so on.

Great, great quote. I've always asked people, "why doesn't 'you get what you pay for' ever apply to schools?!?"

[Rex]

47. Like this is a great mystery! It's called FUNDING

something the state and federal gummit hate to do. Education is not a priority in this country - making ASSLOADS of money is the number one priority to capitalist pigs. Pouring money into the Military Industrial Complex is a priority to corporate fascists. All the little kiddies need to know is how to point a rifle. To republicans children are NOT the future, they are exploitable resources.