Gays 'Threaten Society' Islamic Leader Says

[JI7]

<One of the world's leading Islamic scholars has angered gay rights advocates in Asia and Europe after declaring that granting gay rights is a threat to society and should not be tolerated.

``The biggest threat to the whole global population, not only Muslims, is how to maintain family,'' Ahmad said. ``If people start living in , then within the next two generations there will be no civilization.''

The speech, which was greeted with loud applause came as the Hong Kong government is considering legislation to grant greater rights to gays and lesbians.

Hong Kong's Civil Human Rights Front condemned Ahmad's speech.

"The best way to protect human rights is through legislation,'' said Chong Yiu-kwong, a spokesperson for the Human Rights Front. "Hong Kong should legislate to further protect homosexuals.''>

http://www.365gay.com/newscon05/03/030105islam.htm

[Racenut20]

1. Hmmmm.

Muslim rights seem to be contributing about as much to world peace as the miss america contestants.

[Disturbed]

2. Muslims don't like Gays?

Do most religions condem Gays?

[JI7]

4. well, Jews seem to be more accepting than Muslims, and many Christians

[mtnester]

3. I see there is a rush to construct glass houses all over the world

Ya know...some folks think Islam is a threat to society..like our own special prez.

Quick, this person needs a wheelbarrow full of rocks to throw!

(OK, so I am facetious early in the morning...also mid afternoon...and heck even on into the evening)

[Demeter]

5. A Threat to the Power Structure, Certainly

But that's only if the structure is intolerant or supports intolerance.

[warrior1]

6. gay people have never

declared war on another nation

blew people up with bombs

disenfranchised groups of people based on race, sex, creed and national origin

[kbm8170]

8. No offense to any religious people here. . .

but frankly, this only underscores to me the neverending search by leaders of religious groups for scapegoats to deflect attention away from their own histories. No doubt many Muslims are discovering the tremendous financial rewards for offering up hate to people hungering for someone to gangbang - and who could fault them for picking on that group that is guaranteed to bring out every paranoid thought in the faithful?

If anyone ever held these religions responsible for their own biblical violations, they would have long ago been disbanded as satanic in nature. Just look at their examples of love and compassion - one Muslim cleric blames the tsunami on God's anger with letting gays go to the beach. Then we have our own cabal of wingnut fundamentalists who demand human sacrifices in civil rights in order for them to feel secure in their own "moral" superiority.

For all their talk about "special rights" and "lifestyle choices," they never seem to address the fact that our nation, in particular, has always provided them special rights based on nothing more than their own fluid propensity to change their beliefs. Religious groups are the only private class who can openly discriminate on the basis of any characteristic (immutable or not) and get away with demanding others give up rights in order to placate their own need to feel special.

I always love it when American "christian impersonaters" remind me that THEY treat gays so much better than the Muslims and how we should feel lucky they are so much more compassionate. . .of course, they say all that while they pass constitutional amendments demanding our life value be permanently treated as beneath their own.

[ldf]

26. excellent post

i've paste and copied to my email list.

you've pretty much summed it up.

[pauliedangerously]

34. Welcome to DU!!

You summed that up perfectly. Hats off to you, kbm.

[WillParkinson]

37. I've often wondered....

I have heard so many times in my life that being gay is a CHOICE and that we should not have "special" rights because of our "CHOICE" of lifestyle.

But, correct me if I'm wrong here, isn't being a member of any religion a choice? No one is forcing it, it's not an inborn trait so why do we protect it?

Really, just curious here.

[Catfight]

57. Brilliant post! Send that to your local newspaper! Welcome. nt

[megatherium]

9. but Islamic fundamentalists sure as hell have

declared war, blown people up with bombs and disenfranchised people based on creed and sex. In a variety of Muslim countries, apostasy (from Islam) and blasphemy (against Islam) are punishable by death as is homosexuality. Anti-Semitic propaganda (anti-Jewish propaganda) of the worst sort is openly discussed and traded in various countries, including the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and the blood libel.

I'm not in favor of the Iraq war, but I harbor no illusions about the Islamists.

[ashmanonar]

17. hold on:

don't confuse the Islamist "Muslim" political parties with muslims in general. much of islam is comparable to much of christianity (the real christianity): peace and tolerance, and compassion.

the Islamists are like Likuud in the Zionist movement, and the Dominionists...they're using their religion as a shield to hide their acts of terror. there's nothing religious about those groups.

[megatherium]

30. you're right, the fanatics aren't representative of Islam

or Muslims in general. But it is still true that the laws I mentioned are still in force in certain countries -- most notoriously, Saudi Arabia, where women are not allowed to drive. If the Saudis know you're Jewish, by the way, they will not admit you into the Kingdom; the oil companies are careful to avoid sending Jewish employees over there. Judenrein, as the Germans used to say.

It's as if the laws common in Christian European countries in earlier centuries were still in force: heresy was punished by death both in Catholic countries and in Protestant countries. The terrible religious wars in Europe of the 16th and 17th centuries led to the age of Enlightenment and notions of democracy, freedom of conscience and belief, and tolerance. Unfortunately, certain Muslim countries never had the enlightenment, ironic given that Islam was the center of learning and tolerance circa 1000 CE. (The Turks are a partial exception to this; after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, the 'young Turks' overthrew the theocratic government, going so far as to replace the sacrad Arabic script with western Roman script. To this day, Turkey is secular, enforced by their military.)

I believe in tolerance. But my tolerance abruptly runs out when discussing ideologies that believe in killing gay people, Dominianist-Christian or Islamist. BTW I am gay.

[ashmanonar]

39. the saudis are run by a fanatic islamist group.

well, maybe not the king so much, but most of the power structure is wahabbism. very very fanatic people. must be how bushco gets along with them so well.

and you're right. it doesn't matter what they are or who they represent, they have no call to even advocate restricting or killing gays. i'm not gay, but i respect that people are. it's just another way to be different, along with the hundred billion other ways that people are different.

people ARE different. there's no way around it. if you can't be compassionate or tolerate people for what they are, you might as well just hang it up.

that's my 0.02.

[piece sine]

41. well not collectively, anyway

but you'd be hard-presses to say that no individual gays have ever acted in that manner. I get nervous when I suddenly find myself on a pedestal.

Odd thing is, teenage male homosexual ses in Arab countries is quite, quite common and, if not accepted per-se than its conveniently overlooked. Lusty young Arab men wouldn't dare -- DARE -- touch an Arab female. Good Lord. Better to bugger your buddy until your pre-arranged marriage occurs.

[ashmanonar]

58. so if they want to end homosexuality...

they should just not cut off the d***s of guys who have sex with women before they're married?

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

7. Islamic fundamentalists are a threat to society

and civilization.

[donheld]

55. Christian fundamentalists are a threat to society

as are Islamic fundimentalists.

[Renew Deal]

10. Once again, Islamic fundies and US Christian fundies are very alike.

And Christian fundies like to blow shit up too.

[tanyev]

12. Anis Ahmad/James Dobson.

Po-tay-to/Po-tah-to.

[ima_sinnic]

11. dumbass hate-mongers -- gays have been around since ancient times

--my history is completely fuzzy here, but weren't man-man relationships accepted without a big furor in ancient Rome (or Greece, or both)?
Do these wingnuts actually believe that legitimizing gay relationships is actually going to cause the entire world population to become gay and threaten the existence of the human race "within 2 generations"?

intolerant hate-filled dumbass IDIOTS!! :argh:

[kbm8170]

18. They sure do. ..

it's the same philosophy that governs Rev. "second messiah" Moon and his Moonies, who once contended that, if Blacks would only move to the North Pole, they would have their skin lightened in a few generations.

[ashmanonar]

19. yep.

in the greek world, it was common and ACCEPTED for men to have relationships with other men. usually just sexual, and usually just to blow off steam (while in a war, away from women). they just didn't see anything wrong with it. the Romans were hedonists, so it doesn't surprise me that they accepted homosexuality.

[Ian David]

13. Queer Allies: Muslims align with Conservatives who hate them

More links were added after edit.

It's amazing to me that Conservative Muslims are uniting with Conservative Christians and Conservative Jews against the Liberals and Gays.

Doesn't the Muslim leadership realize that:
1) Conservatives hate them and want to hurt them?
2) Liberals and Progressives are trying to help them?

Below are links that highlight:
1) Some of the self-defeating anti-gay behavior of the Muslim leadership
2) Some of the anti-Muslim behavior of Conservative Christians

So, they're siding with the people who hate them while alienating the people who are saying, "Oh, you shouldn't hold Muslims without trial and you shouldn't torture them."

Could this be a case of Mass Stockholm Syndrome?

Please note that I am differentiating between "Muslims" and "Muslim Leadership." I cheerfully and gratefully acknowledge the vast number of gay, compassionate, progressive and tolerant members of Muslim-American society.


"Islamofascism offers nothing to us but death, and the choice to achieve it either through persecution or through Jihad. Legalize homosexuality and you cut off Islamofascisms possibility to recruit socially isolated young men by offering them heroical fantasies."
Leo Bauer in a LGF comment, May 20

Queer allies
The little-noticed alliance between gay marriage opponents and alleged terrorist sympathizers
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/1203/marriage_terrorists.php3

Prominent Christian leaders now denouncing Alliance For Marriage's queer partner
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0104/marriage_terrorists4.php3?printer_friendly


Battle for Marriage Telecast
http://www.thetaskforce.org/news/release.cfm?releaseID=708

During the "Battle for Marriage" national telecast, viewers were
told, "if the battle for marriage is lost, your grandchildren will grow up hearing the call to prayer from minarets."

They want to "protect" society from gay people, but they want to do so
because they feel that if they do not, we will fall prey to the even greater and more evil threat of Islam.
http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=18634

Vatican Warns Catholics Against Marrying Muslims
http://www.reuters.com/printerFriendlyPopup.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=51502

The Holy War Foundation
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=14435

Conservative Christians and Muslims United against gays
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=221&topic_id=5440

Mass. religious leaders issue statement supporting marriage
http://www.rcab.org/Pilot/2004/ps040213/Marriage_statement.html

http://www.rcab.org/News/statement040207.html
February 7, 2004 - Leaders and Members of Over 3000 Churches, Mosques, and Synagogues Issue Joint Statement in Support of Constitutional Amendment Initiative


Islamic Bloc, Christian Right Team Up to Lobby U.N.
http://www.dki.antifa.net/inipa/inipa.php?p=mir/axisoffamilyvalues


Queer Jihad (LGBT Muslim group) strongly condemns all forms of terrorism, including prejudice and discrimination.
http://www.well.com/user/queerjhd/

Radical Islam: Outspoken cleric, jailed activist tied to new Hub mosque (Boston)
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1009964/posts

Islamic society's ties fuel concerns
http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040107-103026-6809r.htm

WND Goes Inside 'Mainstream' Muslim Conference
Extremist leaders who support terror stir up crowd at Florida event
http://www.ifapray.org/NFOW/NFOW2004/Jan%20-%20June%202004/WND%20Goes%20Inside%20'Mainstream'%20Muslim%20Conference%20-%20January%205,%202004.html

Religion as a fig leaf for racism
The BNP is now riding a broader wave of respectable Islamophobia
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1267508,00.html

Religion a force in gay marriage debate
By By Rich Barlow, Globe Staff, 6/6/2003
http://www.boston.com/news/specials/gay_marriage/church/religion_a_force_in_gay_marriage_debate?mode=PF

The "Islamic Society of North America" Baffles Washington
September 23, 2003
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/96


"Alliance for Marriage claims to represent several of the largest black denominations and millions of Latinos, Orientals, Jews and Muslims.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/5/14/150134.shtml

homosexuality & terrorism (gay-friendly site)
http://www.dki.antifa.net/inipa/inipa.php?p=gay


Fundie Alert: Bill Frist says anti-gay marriage amendment is top priority
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=221&topic_id=4949

NEW REPORT ON SAUDI GOVERNMENT PUBLICATIONS IN U.S.
http://www.freedomhouse.org/religion/news/bn2005/bn-2005-01-28.htm

Iraq's Christians Disenfranchised at Home and in US
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/105/13.0.html

Each Vote Strikes at Terror
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/sunday/commentary/la-op-democracy30jan30,0,2880536.story?coll=la-sunday-commentary

44 Percent In U.S. Poll Say Restrict Muslims
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1081465

Thinking long-term about Christian-Muslim relations
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/marvinolasky/mo20040715.shtml

Iraq domain owner convicted
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/07/09/iraq_domain_owner_convicted/


above are links that highlight:
1) Some of the self-defeating anti-gay behavior of the Muslim leadership
2) Some of the anti-Muslim behavior of Conservative Christians


Please note that I am also differentiating between "Muslims" and "Muslim Leadership." I cheerfully and gratefully acknowledge the vast number of gay, compassionate, progressive and tolerant members of Muslim-American society.

[JI7]

14. many Muslims are anti gay in itself

they view it as part of their religion and what God wants. just as many Christians do.

they will ally with anyone who helps them further the anti gay agenda.

they aren't the victims here being deceived by anyone.

many muslim nations kill people without trial just for being gay.

[warrior1]

15. you have to put

the pope, bush and the neocons in with this bunch. They have declared war on gays and lesbians. How do we protect ourselves against this. I so sick a tired of being the goat. What do they want to take away my home, my future or my life? I haven't done a fucking thing to these people.

[JI7]

16. it all comes down to beliefs or what they think God wants

so it's kind of hard to debate with them after a while.

of course there are many things they could focus on which they feel God wants but it's easier to do some things than others. such as look to the "other" to go after and not yourself and the mess you have made in the world.

[Ian David]

20. Gays = Bush's "My Pet Scapegoat"

Photoshop, anyone?

[foo_bar]

32. it's not really Stockholm Syndrome when they're all kidnappers

Fundamentalists, of any stripe, live to make lots of kids for their respective armies of god. Liberals represent declining birth rates, women getting jobs, cats and dogs sleeping together. Thus the Spongebob haters and the Buddha blower-uppers have common cause in last millennium's power structure, be it Caliphate or Cathedra.

[primavera]

21. Sounds like they've been listening to George Bush

Hate-Monger in Chief. :grr:

[Nimrod]

22. Woohoo!

I always wanted to bring about an end to civilization!

[Ian David]

24. More Queer Allies: Muslims align with Conservatives who hate them

Here is more information on the strange alliance between Conservative Muslims and the Judeo-Christian conservatives who hate them. Some of these links highlight the anti-Muslim feelings of their "allies."

The struggle is no longer against religion, but within it
For the left not to have stood with Muslims would have been a real betrayal.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1374670,00.html


Bush's crusade
Republicans are trying to divide nation along religious lines.
http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041004/REPOSITORY/410040308/0/FRONTPAGE

American Muslims Call For Acceptance Of Gays
http://www.365gay.com/newscon04/10/101004islam.htm

The Islamization of Europe
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/10/4/223944.shtml

Measure 36: Don't permanently enshrine bigotry in the Constitution
http://www.oregonlive.com/public_commentary/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/editorial/1096027454176160.xml

Muslim Parents Demand School Remove Their Children From Class Discussions On Gay Families
http://www.365gay.com/newscon04/11/111704torSchool.htm

Moderate Christians speak out to be counted
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/paynter/199857_paynter17.html

Misreading Islam
By Michael Hirsh, Washington Monthly
Posted on November 12, 2004, Printed on November 12, 2004
http://www.alternet.org/story/20488/

It's Not the Values, Stupid
http://www.counterbias.com/158.html

Falwell: Bush should kill terrorists "in the name of the lord"
Call to kill terrorists 'in the name of the Lord' sparks outcry
http://www.baptiststandard.com/postnuke/index.php?module=htmlpages&func=display&pid=2518&print=1

The Other War: A Three Year Assault on Civil Liberties
http://www.alternet.org/rights/20224/

Abu Mazen says he is not a "Holocaust denier"
http://blogs.salon.com/0001561/2003/05/29.html
Also: http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,965907,00.html

AMERICANS FREED IN AFGHANISTAN ASK PRAYER FOR PHILIPPINE HOSTAGES
http://www.worthynews.com/news-features-2/american-missionaries-ask-prayer-burnhams.html

Texas church offers food, aid, and conversion to tsunami victims
http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/myrtlebeachonline/news/nation/10712957.htm
Also:
http://www.riversidecc.org.uk/pg_news.php?nid=18
http://www.antiochcc.net/
http://www.riversidecc.org.uk/pg_news.php


Holocaust lessons meet Muslim rebuff in France
http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=657119

The Scandal of the Evangelical Conscience
http://www.christianitytoday.com/bc/2005/001/3.8.html

French Voters Tentatively Reject Dynamiting Notre Dame
... Despite glib, cheerful assertions that Islam is a religion of "peace," the French have been repeatedly presented with stark evidence to the contrary.
www.anncoulter.org/columns/2002/050202.htm

From Chapter One: Liberals Unhinged
... religion. This despite the fact that we had been repeatedly instructed that the terrorists were not practicing "true Islam.". Less
www.anncoulter.org/slander/ex01.htm

AnnCoulter.com - Archived Article: Happy Giving Tree Festival To ...
... A: The real America is Hollywood, Fla. Q: Does tolerant Islam exist or not? A: If it does exist, it's keeping an extremely low profile.
www.anncoulter.org/cgi-local/article.cgi?article=3

Myth Of The Muslim Hate-Crime Epidemic
... how the Muslim terrorist network has infiltrated American universities, mosques, prisons and charities, and every condemnation of radical Islam, qualifies as ...
www.anncoulter.org/guestwriters/malkin052803.htm

Special report
Religion in the UK
http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/0,2759,179375,00.html

Related articles
Guide to British religions
http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/page/0,12131,818217,00.html

Full coverage - Muslim Britain
http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/muslim/0,12135,739179,00.html

Muslim Scholars Increasingly Debate Unholy War
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/10/international/middleeast/10islam.html?oref=login&oref=login&hp&ex=1102654800&en=1c3d80b34ffada21&ei=5094&partner=homepage

ACLU joins national effort on alleged FBI spying
http://www.katu.com/news/story.asp?ID=73123

Of God and Antonin Scalia
http://www.humaniststudies.org/enews/index.html?id=168&lid=1264#n1

The Moral Minority
http://www.heebmagazine.com/magazine/magazine_issue7.php


Hung Over in the End Times
If liberal society is to survive the rise of the Godwacks, we need to start by calling them what they are
http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/HungOverInTheEndTimes.html

Reality Torah
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/152/story_15263_1.html

Zero Tolerance for James Dobson
http://www.democraticunderground.com/plaidder/05/39.html

A Muslim Meditation on Love
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/121/story_12142_1.html


Some of these links highlight the anti-Muslim feelings of their "allies."

[Obamarama]

23. Conservative Muslims can go to hell.......

First let me clarify: Note my headline said CONSERVATIVE Muslims can go to hell. I am of the same opinion regarding conservative, fundamentalist Christians, conservative Orthodox Jews, etc... They are all equally hypocrtical and repugnant, so fear not...I am not not denigrating Islam as a religion.

The fundamentalist Muslims, it seems, are presenting something of a double standard. In the Muslim Arab world, homosexual activity is more or less accepted. It is not uncommon. Male to male sex isn't exactly celebrated, to say the least, but it's widely acknowledged. Many sociological studies have illustrated that many Muslim Arab men engage in homosexual activity prior to marriage. The HUGE issue with Muslims is when an EMOTIONAL attachment forms between two men. Then, it seems, the fate of very civilization is at risk.

A very informative article on homosexuality and Islam (link below) captured it in a nutshell:
"Gay activities are frowned upon in Islam but a set of cultural and traditional taboos has played a role in the acquiescence of much of these sexual activities if confined to a certain set of moral conducts."

"...That is to say, homosexual behavior may be overlooked but experiencing feelings of an emotional nature beyond sex makes a man gay and hence, a potential outcast. In a society where the family bond, "honor" and image are extremely important, many tend to follow the dictates and norms of society, even if this means living in conflict with their inner feelings."

http://www.glas.org/ahbab/Articles/arabia1.html


And, what happens when a society puts no checks and balances on its liberalism? Trust me, I'm pretty liberal but this article really made me think about how liberal is too liberal? While I contend that we have a million miles to go before our own American society is considered too liberal, the case of the Dutch does give one pause for thought.

Remember liberal, progressive Holland? They opened their doors to hordes of "poor, opressed Muslims", many of them conservative fundamentalists. And now what? The Dutch are fleeing their own country. Why? The conservative Muslims who emigrated to Holland refuse to INTEGRATE with the Dutch culture. They are trying to chisel away at the liberalism that has been the hallmark of The Netherlands, and the result has been cultural chaos. (SEE ARTICLE BELOW)



From the NYT:

MORE DUTCH PLAN TO EMIGRATE AS MUSLIM INFLUX TIPS SCALES

AMSTERDAM - Paul Hiltemann had already noticed a darkening mood in the Netherlands. He runs an agency for people wanting to emigrate and his client list had surged.But he was still taken aback in November when Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh, a fierce critic of Muslim fundamentalists, was shot and his throat was slit, execution style, on an Amsterdam street. In the weeks that followed, Mr. Hiltemann was inundated by e-mail messages and telephone calls. "There was a big panic," he said, "a flood of people saying they wanted to leave the country."

Mr. van Gogh's killing is the only one the police have attributed to an Islamic militant, but since then they have reported finding death lists by local Islamic militants with the names of six prominent politicians. The effects still reverberate. In a recent opinion poll, 35 percent of the native Dutch questioned had negative views about Islam.

"This small nation is a magnet for immigrants, but statistics suggest there is a quickening flight of the white middle class. Dutch people pulling up roots said they felt a general pessimism about their small and crowded country and about the social tensions that had grown along with the waves of newcomers, most of them Muslims."The Dutch are living in a kind of pressure cooker atmosphere," Mr. Hiltemann said.

"Ms. Konings said the Dutch themselves brought on some of the social frictions. The Dutch "thought that we had to adapt to the immigrants and that we had to give them handouts," she said. "We've been too lenient; now it's difficult to turn the tide."


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/27/international/europe/27dutch.html?pagewanted=1

[Sapphire Blue]

25. A bigot is a bigot is a bigot

Attaching the label of a valid group to a perverted, bigoted 'leader' or 'spokesperson', i.e. 'Islamic' leader, simply attempts to lend credence to their bigoted BS and generate hatred toward both the group they claim to speak for, as well as those they target.

Haven't we already seen way too much of this with 'Christian' leaders?

When reading venom like this, I find it helpful to replace the descriptive word (Christian, Muslim, Jewish, etc) with the words 'bigot', 'pervert', 'hatemonger', etc. It helps to maintain a little sanity and a sense of humor.

[sarcasmo]

27. Islam and the Christian right with something in common.

Imagine a common ground of that these two nut job groups will have.

[tom_paine]

28. Spunds like the Busheviks and al-Qaeda are together on this one

They both hate and fear gays.

Why am I not surprised?

[opihimoimoi]

29. i DON SEE gAYS THREATENING ANYONE Its a strawman

for bigots...they jus gatta hate somebody to make themselves look good.

Its the pecking thing/order...they gatta peck...dats why dey peckers...

[d.l.Green]

31. So the world is made up of 90% "straight" closet cases and 10%

well-adjusted people who are comfortable with their sexuality. Given the choice, the rest would live in gay relationships? Now there's a heavenly thought... :party:

``The biggest threat to the whole global population, not only Muslims, is how to maintain family,'' Ahmad said. ``If people start living in , then within the next two generations there will be no civilization.''
(Note to J17- this incomplete quote is not in the linked story provided.)

[Toucano]

33. Why do fundies doubt hetersexuality so much?

Their hypothesis seems to think that if gays and lesbians are granted civil protection, people will turn away from hetersexual relationships in favor of homosexual relationships in DROVES!

Is the power of gay sex that great? Are heterosexual relationships so fragile that the only exist because of the demonization of gays?

If your civilization depends on the un-civil treatment of one group, it's not a civilization.

These people clearly have some issues with their own sexuality if they endow gay sex with the power strong enough to destroy civilization.

[Beetwasher]

35. Someone Wanna Tell Me The Difference Between Xtian Fundies and These Guys?

I can't figure out why they hate eachother so much, they want exactly the same things. :shrug:

[JI7]

43. there isn't much difference

when you really look into it they pretty much want the same thing in terms of specific policicies such wanting anti gay, anti abortion type laws. and prayer in public places.

the only difference seems to be whether it's Jesus or Muhammed or the Bible or the Quran.

[NYC]

54. Competition.

They hate the competition.

[LdyGuique]

36. The biigest threat to familes are belligerant abusive men who

believe that they have rights to rule over their womenfolk through violence--the same mentality that believes that political ends can be accomplished through violence.

[Zenlitened]

38. Hmmm... wasn't it just last week that we heard the "ideology of evil" rant

... from the vatican?

Are they using the same public relations agency these days? :shrug:

[Dookus]

40. Pope, Mullahs....

same shit, different asshole.

[GOPBasher]

42. Hey STUPID!!!! The world is OVERpopulated, not UNDERpopulated!

I think it'll help if there are more homosexuals. The greatest threat facing humankind is our overpopulation -- which causes wars for natural resources, since there isn't enough to go around; causes pollution resulting in various diseases, acid rain, global warming, etc.; causes mass starvation when too many people are in a region with too little food, and at this rate, there's a point where there simply won't be enough food for people in general; causes economic problems since resource get much more expensive as they get more scarce; and on and on and on. I can write a book on all the problems we have because of overpopulation.

With more homosexuals, less people will be born, and that could fix a lot of problems. In fact, I think we heterosexuals are a much greater threat to humankind than homosexuals!

[Disturbed]

44. Nazis put Gays in Concentration Camps.

The Brownshirts were massacred and most of them were Gay. After that Gays were rounded up given pink triangles and put into the camps.

Could that ever happen in the U.S.?

[megatherium]

45. The closest that came to happening was

in the early days of the AIDS epidemic, when there was talk of quarantining carriers. I think it was William F. Buckley Jr who suggested tattoing the buttocks of HIV-positive gay men to warn potential partners of the risk. This was around about the time Cuba actually did quarantine HIV-positive people.

Read Randy Shilts, And The Band Played On, for a harrowing history of the AIDS epidemic, and the criminal neglect of the growing crisis in the first Reagan term. They were only spending a few million dollars a year on AIDS research when epidemiologists already knew a catostrophe was brewing, when it was clear that HIV was communicable and fatal and that a large number -- hundreds of thousands -- of people may have already been infected.

Funding for HIV research opened up in the late 1980s when Rock Hudson died of AIDS. Reagan had no clue what was happening; he had to ask his personal physician what the story was about AIDS. One big hero to mention: Dr. C. Everett Koop, who was approved as Surgeon General over the objections of liberals (due to his anti-abortion stand) -- when he saw what was happening, he knew that promotion of condoms was necessary, and started a major effort to get the message to the American public about safer sex. Many cultural conservatives felt betrayed by this, but Koop has probably saved many lives.

[Sapphire Blue]

52. That's part of the Dominionist's plan

This country needs to wake up & smell the fascism.

A small excerpt from....

The Despoiling of America
How George W. Bush became the head of the new American Dominionist Church/State


Dominionism is a natural if unintended extension of Social Darwinism and is frequently called “Christian Reconstructionism.” Its doctrines are shocking to ordinary Christian believers and to most Americans. Journalist Frederick Clarkson, who has written extensively on the subject, warned in 1994 that Dominionism “seeks to replace democracy with a theocratic elite that would govern by imposing their interpretation of ‘Biblical Law.’” He described the ulterior motive of Dominionism is to eliminate “…labor unions, civil rights laws, and public schools.” Clarkson then describes the creation of new classes of citizens:

“Women would be generally relegated to hearth and home. Insufficiently Christian men would be denied citizenship, perhaps executed. So severe is this theocracy that it would extend capital punishment blasphemy, heresy, adultery, and homosexuality.”<10>

The entire essay is worth reading, and is available @

http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm

[GOPBasher]

56. With Dobson, Falwell and Robertson in control, probably. n/t

[True_Blue]

46. They sound just like the fundies we have over here

It's the fundamentalists that are the real threat to society.

[deadparrot]

47. I dislike all religious fundamentalists.

Lunatics, every one of them, no matter what religion.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

48. Nice to know we're on every extremist's shit list

Frankly I think extremist religion is a far greater threat to society than little ole me

[jdj]

49. That's about the most ironic headline I've ever seen.

I will chuckle about that one for days.

[MrSlayer]

50. So, if you give gays rights then everyone will turn gay.

This is what that fool is saying.

[daleo]

51. I don't understand why some people worry so much about this.

It seems to me that forcing gays to live in heterosexual unions (or outside of unions whatsoever) can have only the slightest effect on the birth rate. Only a small percentage of the human population (maybe about 2% to 4% I would think) is gay, and that seems like a constant percentage historically. So, their activities can have only a marginal effect on net reproduction either way.

The same goes for the cultural influence. It just could never be large enough to convince young people to "abandon marriage" or whatever it is conservatives worry about. People will still fall in love, get married (or paired up), and have children. A small percentage of these will be same sex unions in an open society, but that's about it.

I tend to think people who get worked up are concerned about their own sexual identity, but that's just a hunch.

[sea dee]

53. Fundies suck

Fundies suck