US Court Blocks No-Call List

[DrGonzoLives]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=569&ncid=578&e=1&u=/nm/20030924/tc_nm/telecom_telemarketing_dc

What a complete crock of shit. Nice to know that our "objective" judges are in the pockets of these telemarketing pieces of shit. :argh:

[XanaDUer]

1. WTF!?

I have been awaiting this event to kick in for months!

Shit.

[Plaid Adder]

Wow. The one non-evil thing that the Bush administration ever did

and now it's not even gonna happen.

He's batting 1000!

Sigh,

The Plaid Adder

[underpants]

7. This is NOT I repeat NOT legislating from the bench

Only anti-capitalist and America hating liberals do that.

[liberalhistorian]

10. LOL!

I just LOVE it when the repukes scream about "libruls" legislating from the bench and "judicial activism". But when THEIR judges do it, oh no, it's NEVER judicial activism, just "following the law." Yeah, right, in this case, there is no precedent, so they're making up their own damn laws.

[demdave]

15. These are Rep. appointed judges? I was wondering about that.

Do you have a link?

[underpants]

20. No but the telemarketing industry wouldn't take it to any other court

They pump big money into Repube coffers (both parties of course but more to the Repubes) and I guarantee that this court is right wing appointed. They went "Fishing" for a responsive court I'm sure.

NO I don't have a link.

[Tansy_Gold]

57. Call the Judge

My husband just suggested that someone ought to find out who the judge is and post his home and office phone numbers so everyone can call him at all hours of the day -- respecting, of course, his night time privacy in accordance with existing rules against telemarketing at 3 a.m. -- so he can get a taste of his own medicine.

After all, if telemarketers make free with OUR phone numbers and have RIGHT to do so, don't we likewise have a right to make our views known?

Tansy Gold, who of course would NEVER advocate such response :evilgrin:

[demdave]

58. Is that a baseless guarantee, or are you holding back info.

Are you saying you have no idea who appointed them but you guarantee that this court is right wing appointed? Gee, I'll take that to the bank.

[w4rma]

63. Yes. Do more research on politics. Get a better understanding.

Then you'll figure out why folks can infer such things with accuracy.

[demdave]

66. Really, maybe you should do a little research and open your eyes.

Judge West was appointed U.S. District Judge for the Western District of Oklahoma in 1979 by President Jimmy Carter.

[demdave]

67. Your guarantee isn't worth the paper it isn't written on

Judge West was appointed U.S. District Judge for the Western District of Oklahoma in 1979 by President Jimmy Carter.

[underpants]

70. I called his office and your are right

ON EIDT-And I AM WRONG

Did Carter only appoint left wing or liberal judges?

I don't know I did jump to an assumption but I would be very surprised if West is not considered a conservative judge. Both sides do the same thing, look for a court where they will get at least a sympathetic ear.

[demdave]

71. Thanks for the reply

I figured you would follow up on it. I didn't mean to come across so tersely in my second reply, but I had just been told that I should do more research and then I could understand why people could INFER things to be true. I don't work that way. So I was slightly heated when I typed your reply. Sorry about the aim. :)

[underpants]

72. Actually

I called earlier today and have been searching for something on his record but to no avail. His exec. assistant (Myrtle) told me he was appointed by "Whoever was President then" I asked when he was appointed and she said "1979" so it was Carter. Not to make fun of her but she really should have known who was President in 1979.

[Caution]

2. Next

Bush will fucking sell the damn list to the telemarketers as part of a way to come up with his $87 billion in blood money

[jayfish]

61. Damn You ;-)

just when I thought I had an original Idea. You beat me to it by hours.

Jay

[NewYorkerfromMass]

3. C'mon people! In this shitty economy this is some of the only work

available. I feel more badly for the people who have to make these calls than for we who get them! Some of them have no other choice!

[DrGonzoLives]

6. Bullshit

I have a right to NOT have people randomly call my house and sell me stuff. I have a right to NOT have my personal information sold to the highest bidder for a few bucks.

If you're so hell-bent on letting telemarketers operate, feel free to start giving all of them you can find your phone number.

[fertilizeonarbusto]

12. Yeah right

They can go wash dishes or peddle their ass or do something honorable that people want and need.

[damnraddem]

34. In this shitty economy, some of the only money-making opportunities ...

involve mugging people -- outlawing mugging only makes it worse. I feel badly for muggers and stick-up artists who get arrested for performing the only jobs they can get. Some of them have no other choice.

Not!

Put me on the do-not-mug list, as well as the Federal do-not-call list that I am on by dint of my signing up for my state's do-not-call list. And any telemarketers who do call me: they get an earful from me, including notification that they are breaking the law and that their firms can be subject to fines for doing so.

[BiggJawn]

38. How about the ones who threaten you?

"Hi, I'm calling for 'Kops buying Koats for Kidz'...'

"I'm sorry, but I'm tapped-out on my charitables for this year."

"Huh. hope YOUR kid never needs a coat, or YOU need a cop..."

In this "Shitty Economy', some folks feel the need to hit other people over the head and take their money. it's understandable, but still not honorable.

I didn't get a raise last year. My utility bills went up. what I gained quiting smoking has been gobbled up by gasoline gouging.

May I come over to your house and help myself to what I want?

[4_Legs_Good]

56. I agree, partly

I'm actually amazed that the legislation got as far as it did. I think it's pretty clearly unconstitutional.

Anyway, I think rather than these no-call lists, we should be putting large regulations on when calls can be made, how they have to be conducted, etc. I say *NO* calls after 7 PM in the caller's time zone, and that sellers should have to state up front what the gist of the call is. Also, if you ask an individual company not to call again, it should be illegal for them to do so.

david

Kucinich 2004

Arianna YES
Recall No

[NewYorkerfromMass]

59. Thanks...I think. I won't even respond to the others above

Remember, a telepone number is public unless you request otherwise (unlisted or unpublished). Your other suggestions are good and appropriate.

[oldcoot]

74. I have an unlisted number and still got called by telemarketers

I resent the fact that I paid extra for this service and still get harassed. I do not consider telemarketing a free speech issue. Indeed, I consider some of these phone calls a form of harassment. I especially dislike the auto dialers. I am sick of answering my phone and having no one respond until the second or third "hello" if at all. I consider this behavior as offensive as the behavior of a prankster who calls and hangs up. In most, if not all states, it is illegal to make harassing phone calls. Why should telemarketers be exempt? Since we all have to pay for local phone service, we shouldn't we have a say in who calls us?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

75. the pause is a giveaway that it's an auto-dial.

I usually hang up before the human arrives. And unlisted is not the same as unpublished. NOBODY gets unpublished nos.

[mbperrin]

87. The machines don't know the difference...

They dial:

337-4424, then 337-4425, then 337-4426, then 337-4427

I let 'em talk until they hang up. (Just lay the phone down on the sofa beside you so you can't hear them.) All they have is their time. Steal it!

[liberalhistorian]

92. There are ALWAYS ways to get unpublished numbers,

never put ANYTHING past these harassing, bloodsucking telemarketing companies. There will NEVER be a way to totally keep your phone number from these people, no matter what.

[4_Legs_Good]

86. I hate those autodialers too!

I'm very quick. I say "Hello..." give them 1.5 seconds and hang up.

I don't think that machine callers should be legal, but maybe they're not. I remember Homer got one once, and I think Wiggim broke into his house to confiscate it.

I hate the ones that say "Please hold on to hear about some great offers...".

Gah!

david

Kucinich 2004

Arianna YES
Recall No

[Occulus]

99. Of course

if corporate personhood were recognized as the legal fiction it is, this list would be perfectly constitutional.

Amazing how that issue can be applied to so many situations, isn't it?

[smb]

103. There Is No Constitutional Question

"I think it's pretty clearly unconstitutional."

The judge rejected the Constitutional arguments (relying instead on a narrow technical argument that the FTC lacked a proper grant of jurisdiction from Congress).

In any case, the "free speech" argument is baloney. Freedom of speech does not entitle me to paint grafitti on your wall, use your printer without permission, or otherwise violate your private property rights.

[Jose Diablo]

84. Actually, the telemarket jobs will go to India - n/t

[InkAddict]

89. With or Without Do-Not-Call

I don't see how American telemarketing firms could possibly remain competitive with off-shore firms where low-wage off-shore persons with anglocized names practice their "heart-of-American" English by forcing Americans to listen. The way things are going, one way or the other, the "marketers" jobs will be taking a permanent holiday overseas sooner or later.

[smb]

102. The Dickens With Them!

"I feel more badly for the people who have to make these calls than for we who get them! Some of them have no other choice!"

On this issue, I have to stand with Ebenezer Scrooge -- Are there no prisons? Are the workhouses still in operation?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

105. oh I forgot

the marines are looking for a few good men too. Your compassion is overwhelming.... NOT!

[ixion]

4. telemarketers are the most annoying people...

I get sick of auto dialers and morons calling me trying to sell me stuff I don't need. It sucks that there really is no respite from them, short of not having a phone or mailing address.

[liberalhistorian]

13. Exactly!

And these people just will NOT get off the fucking phone and leave you in peace, they act like they have the RIGHT to talk to you and get snooty when you don't want to listen. Then when you finally have had enough and hang up, they just call you right back! One of them even asked me if I had another number where they could reach my mom, since I told them she was out-of-town, believe it or not! Well, I REALLY let her have it on that one.

Then there are the ones that start calling before 8 in the morning, especially on weekends. GGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[damnraddem]

37. I ask 'what are you selling?'

Invariably, the response is that they are not selling anything -- they're doing something like offering me an opportunity. Well they are: an opportunity to be rude to someone who's invading my privacy.

What, no privacy invasion because I don't have to answer the phone? Only if I want to isolate myself from the rest of society, including family, friends, and colleagues -- and perhaps even from emergency or other urgent calls.

[Marthe48]

46. Let the phone ring twice

Many of the junk calls are done by a computer, which dials many numbers at a time. If you let the phone ring at least twice, chances are, another phone being called will pick up. I've been doing this for over a year and its worked almost every time. If I do get a call I don't want, I tell them not to call me at all. We're not getting as many calls as we used to.

[Atlant]

94. Unfortunately, most Answering machines in "Toll-Saver" mode...

Unfortunately, most voice mail systems and many answering
machines in "Toll-Saver" mode pick up after the third ring
or so, so many normal callers (that I might want to talk to)
are conditioned to hang up if the call isn't answered by the
third ring.

If I were to let the phone ring twice, this means I have a
one-ring window to: 1) decide to answer the call; 2) race
to the phone; 3) successfully pick it up without bobbling
the receiver into the fish tank.

Atlant

(Yes, I'm a luddite who still has wired phones. I have 54MB/s
wireless computer networking, but wired phones. Go figure.)

[Marthe48]

109. dodging all calls

Our ans. machine picks up 4th ring and we do have some mad dashes through the house (depending on who's calling on what phone) We have 4 extensions and usually someone is sitting by one of them. Easier than your situation, I think.

We just set up a computer for my friend. She moved into her parents house when they moved out, and the telephone wiring seems to be original from the 1940's, and one phone jack in the whole place. We told her to ask the phone co. to rewire her house, think they'd love to get her old connections, probably antique!

[maveric]

60. I dont give them the opportunity to utter mor than 4 words..

I hang up. If they call back I tell them to FUCK OFF!

[InkAddict]

88. Solution:

buy a phone that can be programmed to give a special ring for family, friends and other numbers so you won't have to make a "close-encounter" decision about answering. All other calls can be directed to the answering machine and/or disregarded.

[Atlant]

96. This only works if all your family and friends present valid CallerID data

This only works if all your family and friends present valid CallerID
data. In my case, when I call home from work, I routinely come in as
"Unavailable". Calls from someone else who works at a group promoting
women's rights routinely come in as "Private" (because they have their
outgoing CallerID blocked by default). Neither of these IDs could
pass through your screening phone.

But I have Call Blocking (see another note) so I simply use my secret
password to get past the Call Blocking firewall.

Atlant

[smb]

104. These People Are So Crooked, They Should Be In Politics

One of these low lifes called me on my cell phone (which has been illegal for years). When I lit into the jackass about his violation of the law, it brayed "This is not a sales call" (having already admitted to calling on behalf of the local cable company).

GRRRR! :argh:

[Tansy_Gold]

55. "Bill Johnson" calls me every day.

I have an answering machine so I can screen my calls. It isn't just telemarketers but other folks who call me at inconvenient times, so it's easier for me to listen to them and then decide if I want to call them back or take the call at that time.

Some of the telemarketer companies have automatic responses. If they don't get a voice on the phone, they leave a message, an annoying recording that takes up space on my machine. In one case, the recording was so long it took up ALL the space on my machine and I couldn't get any other messages!

If I'm home and I hear one of these recordings start, I pick up the phone and hang it up, cutting the message off. I do not ever speak to these people. Not ever.

"Bill Johnson" has tried to leave his mortgage refinance company's message regarding "the follow-up we sent you" daily for the past week and a half. They have not, of course, sent any such follow-up. We have never contacted them; the last time we refinanced was in 1992, and with only four years to go on our mortgage we don't have enough principal left to make refinancing attractive for them.

Granted, it's a shitty economy. But these calls aren't making anyone any money if no one buys the shit they're peddling, so everyone is wasting their time. Maybe the folks in the cubes are getting a paycheck, but they're not "making" any money for anyone. And getting a thousand phones slammed in their ears every day can't be very good for their mental health. I don't want one of these folks taking out their frustration with a gun, on themselves or anyone else.

When "Bill Johnson" calls tomorrow, maybe I'll wait until his spiel is done and then I'll get the number of the mortgage refinance company and I'll try to get my number removed from their list. That won't be easy; I've tried before. All they tell me is that the number comes up on their computer screen and it's automatic.

Well, so is my refusal to listen to their shit.

If the owners of businesses have a right to try to make money, I also have the right to privacy on my own property. Put that in your property rights pipe and smoke it.

Tansy Gold, who usually does not get this angry but is in one of those moods today.

[smb]

106. Oh, By All Means Get Their Number!

"When "Bill Johnson" calls tomorrow, maybe I'll wait until his spiel is done and then I'll get the number of the mortgage refinance company and I'll try to get my number removed from their list."

Know any local dives with rest rooms that haven't been cleaned since Reagan could say the alphabet backwards?

"For A Good Time, Call <"Bill Johnson">"

[xxqqqzme]

64. When making calls

(now I AM making this call) 2 cancel service of a family member who died, the rep actually went N2 her sell script 2 get me to sign up 4 long distance service - I lost it - asked her if there was any respect left in this country - this was a loss 2 me, not a potential gain 4 AT&T.

[bobthedrummer]

5. You can bet that that list is being data-mined to ferret out "terrorists"

by Big Brother though.

[damnraddem]

39. How is that?

Unless not wanting to have one's privacy invaded constitutes terrorism.

[MaineDem]

8. Nooooooooooooooooooo

This sucks. I, too, was looking forward to this!

Time for phone calls to legislators.

[liberalhistorian]

9. AARRRRRGGGGHHHHHH!

PLEASE let this be a joke or just a temporary setback! I was SOOOOO looking forward to not having to deal with ten of these calls an hour and even more on the weekends! Especially since I'm getting even more during September because the fucking telemarketers are getting their last calls in before the list was supposed to kick in! DAMNIT DAMNIT DAMNIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe they should flood the court with telemarketing calls, and these ivory tower judges would actually have to experiencethe real world that we live with!

[fertilizeonarbusto]

11. GRRRRRRRRRRRRR

WTF! Thank God this doesn't affect Pennsylvania's state law.

[MaineDem]

14. Maine has one too

My telemarketing calls have been cut back tremendously since Maine instituted the DNC list.

[freethought]

16. Maybe 'Do Not Call' was just a "Dog and Pony " show

I wouldn't put it below them for a few extra poll points. They probably knew this would never stand up in their hand-picked federal courts.

[FlashHarry]

17. Bush is behind this. No Call List = another million jobs lost.

Think about it. This would cripple an entire industry. There's no way Bush is going to let this happen. Either way, he's f*cked.

[displacedtexan]

18. you're right. this is no win for the BFEE.

if the list proceeds, millions of more jobs are lost; if it doesn't proceed, millions of freepers get ticked off royally.

[mikeysnot]

22. telemarkeeter jobs are not "Jobs"

They suck people in and spit them out, my old girlfriend lasted a whole two weeks before they let her go, because she didn't meet the "performance points", mind you its not a "quota", but in reality it is. Usually the people are desperate for work and take these disposable jobs to bridge the financial gap, so unless they work there over six months, it won't count as a "lost job" since it is not a real job to begin with.... Not one person in her office of 30, had worked there longer than a month. That was the 80's so it could be different now, but somehow I doubt it. I am never rude to these callers, who always seem to call at 8:45 PM, or during my dinner. I just politely ask to speak to the manager, get the company's name and tell them if they ever call here again, I will sue them. I have six lawyers in the family and not inluding my three friends that are lawyers.

[damnraddem]

43. I am invariably rude to these callers -- as a matter of principle.

I try to be nicer to representatives of nonprofit organizations and such who call for donations. I explain that I will consider any written information they send me, but will not consider a phoned appeal. When telemarketing is finally outlawed, maybe I can change my practices regarding the nonprofits.

[RobertSeattle]

25. ???

The one million jobs is quite dubious (these people can't find anyting else to do?).

Even if true, that's one million jobs I won't peg on George Bush.

Good riddance telemarketers!

[FlashHarry]

33. "These people can't find anyting else to do?"

That's a bit harsh, don't you think--considering the current state of the job market?

In fact, I'd say that, no, many of these people can't find anything else to do. Many are single mothers. Many are working poor, trying to extricate themselves from the welfare rolls. Many are minorities. It's a crummy, thankless job--but it's a job nonetheless.

Believe me, I'm no fan of telemarketing. In fact, it's one of the reasons I only use a mobile phone. But I think that crippling an entire industry, however loathed, is a pretty lousy thing to do--unless you provide re-training benefits.

[BiggJawn]

44. You're Right! Maybe I should invite some Crack Dealers...

...to settle in my 'hood...
After all, that's the right thing to do, I mean, it's the Economy's fault these high-school drop-outs have no other way to make $900 a night "E-Z Munny", do they? Why try to "cripple' THEIR industry?

Sympathy for Telemarketing Companies is like sympathy for the Devil. Kind, but mis-guided.

[damnraddem]

45. I'm sorry for those out of work. I don't think that gives them the right

to mug me in a dark alley. Nor does it give them the right to invade my privacy.

[smb]

107. So Let Them Take INCOMING Calls

"But I think that crippling an entire industry, however loathed, is a pretty lousy thing to do--unless you provide re-training benefits."

Telepesterers can use the same limited skill set legitimately by working for incoming call centers.

Maybe then it will be possible to speak with businesses that I *WANT* to contact within my lifetime.

[damnraddem]

40. It's an 'industry' that needs crippling -- that must be crippled.

And it's an exceptionally-unpopular 'industry.' Murder Incorporated probably has more public support than do telemarketers. ;-)

[sendero]

19. I just want to present the thought...

.... that maybe Bush* has nothing whatsofing ever to do with this. I mean, he doesn't have every judge in the country in his pocket, does he?

Is it possible that the judge is simply ruling on a point of law. And is it not also possible that this will escalate up the food chain and the DNC list allowed to stand?

I dislike telemarketing as much as the next guy, but I don't think *everything* that goes wrong is at the hands of Bush*/Rove, there are not enough hours in a day :)

[liberalhistorian]

23. I don't see how the judges could just be

"following the law" if there is no precedent for them to follow, and in this case, I don't believe there is a precedent. I could be wrong, but I really doubt it.

When there's no precedent, judges pretty much do as they like, and if they're repukes, they're going to toe the party line.

[damnraddem]

47. Let's assume that Bushco isn't involved -- the fact remains ...

that this ruling is wacko. It serves some corporate interests, twisting law to come up with an interpretation to allow for this. Freedom of speech does not give the right to invade the privacy of others. There is every right to regulate ('discriminate') against 'industries' that are injurious to the public good.

[ima_sinnic]

21. I recommend:

caller ID and answering machine (preferable to voice mail)

When I see "unknown caller" I know 99% of the time it is a telemarketer (unfortunately, some cell phones also show up as "unknown caller") and I just let it ring. Answering machine lets me further screen calls. If it's someone I want to talk to, I can pick up in the middle of their message (and if you let your friends with cell phones know this is what's going on, they will know to start talking after the beep so you can hear that it's them). Voice mail doesn't allow for screening.

And when I do get a telemarketer on the line I always tell him or her in no uncertain terms to never call me again. They always promise to take me off their list.

I do wonder what the rationale of these repuke judges can be??

[damnraddem]

48. Yes, we do some of these things.

But waiting for the machine to pick up may discourage some callers we'd want to receive, unless one is willing to set the machine to pick up after one or two rings. Screening the calls is more of a disruption than simply answering. And that's the issue: all of these tactics involve greater burden on all of us, unnecessary burdens that we need not bear. It's much better to stop the telemarketers from perpetrating their violations of our privacy in the first place.

[Atlant]

24. Remember, your local Telco still offers "Call Blocking"

The name varies, but they offer a service whereby if you
receive a call but the "Caller ID" info is either blocked
("Private") or "Unavailable", the caller doesn't get straight
to your phone. Instead, they get to talk to an automated
system that asks them to speak their name and confirm that
they're NOT a telemarketer.

The call is then put through to your phone.

Autodialers can't answer the prompts, so they never get
through unless they're presenting valid Caller-ID data, and
long-distance telemarketers ALMOST NEVER do that.
(Local telemarketers still get through, but for some curious
reason, probably owing to the fact that they're a local business
that we could actually complain to, they're a lot more polite
and thorough about honoring "do not call again!" requests.)

You can also set up a "password" so that folks you know
and want to speak to, but who are calling from a blocked
("Private") or "Unavailable" phone can still get through
with minimal hassle.

We've had the service for a year or so now, and love it.
The downside is that we pay ~$5/month to NOT receive
phone calls.

Atlant

[Liberal Veteran]

28. I shouldn't have to pay extra for this....

If I can hang a "no soliciting" sign on my door for free, I should be able to do the same thing to my phone. The phone is there for my use and my convenience and should not be construed as an open invitation to try to sell me something.

[Atlant]

93. You're right, you shouldn't have to pay.

But this service DOES work, and work well.

Atlant

[Tracer]

26. Massachusetts Instituted a No-Call List Last April.

And I can't tell you what a relief it is!!!

In my house there are 4 phone lines: son's, daughters, house line, office phone line. On these lines, we used to receive an average of 12 calls a day (yes!! I counted!!).

12 calls x 365 days a year = 4,380 unwanted phone calls!!!!

Who the hell can put up with that?

[LanternWaste]

36. 1 Day, 2 Hours, 30 Minutes per Year

Uhg! If each call lasts 30 seconds that translates into 1 day, 2 hours, 30 minutes per year. I wonder if I could send them a bill for lost time...?

hehe

[Liberal Veteran]

27. Contact info for the judge.

The Honorable Lee R. West
Senior United States District Judge
Western District of Oklahoma
U.S. Courthouse
200 N.W. Fourth St. Oklahoma City, OK 73102
Rm 3001, Courtroom 303, Third Floor
Chambers Telephone: [phone]
Chambers Facsimile: 405-609-5151

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[damnraddem]

49. Dont' call him -- give his number to telemarketers.

Let him deal with them directly.

[MountainLaurel]

69. Evil, but brilliant

I think I'm going to take note of that for future purposes. Next time I have to register at a Web site, that's the info to use.

My problem isn't telemarketers calling me, it's telemarketers calling the family who had my telephone number before me (I've had it for more than a year, and I still get calls). :mad:

[MUAD_DIB]

29. The only honorable thing to do

will be to publish this judge's phone number and call him night and day.

[XanaDUer]

30. Hmmmmm...

"The Direct Marketing Association sued to block the list shortly after Congress approved it in January, saying it would violate free-speech laws and discriminate against an industry that provides millions of jobs..."

Then , perhaps prostitution should be legal, drug dealing, etc.

This really steams me.
:mad:

[Hawkeye-X]

62. DMA are scum.

They advocate spamming too.

I want DMA itself to shut down, with ZERO money invested and ZERO return.

Hawkeye-X

[smb]

108. Those Are A Step Up

"Then, perhaps prostitution should be legal, drug dealing, etc."

Prostitution and drug dealing are more honest and honorable than telepestering -- at least johns and junkies actually *want* to do business with them....

[Aristus]

31. "We hassta ban thay-at lee-ist!

No-cawls is bay-ad fer bidness!"

Let's dust for prints: this has got Georgie-boy's all over it.

[Atlant]

32. Dave Barry versus the Telemarketers...

The actual Dave Barry column:

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E142%257E1593063,00.html

> No, wait, I have a better idea: Call the American Teleservices
> Association, toll-free, at 877-779-3974, and tell them what you think.
> Be sure to wipe your mouthpiece afterward.


The aftermath:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2003/09/11/MNbarrycol.DTL

> "It's difficult not to see some malice in Mr. Barry's intent," said
> Tim Searcy, executive director of the ATA, who said the added calls
> will be costly to his group because of toll charges and staffing
> issues.
>
> Barry hardly sounded apologetic.
>
> "I feel just terrible, especially if they were eating or anything,"
> he said. "They have phones like the rest of us have phones. Their
> attitude seems to be if you have a phone, people are allowed to
> call you."

[Atlant]

97. Remember Barry's Advice: Call *THEM* at 877-779-3974

> No, wait, I have a better idea: Call the American Teleservices
> Association, toll-free, at 877-779-3974, and tell them what you think.
> Be sure to wipe your mouthpiece afterward.

[damnraddem]

41. "violate free-speech laws"?

It does no such thing. It's not a question of free speech, rather of freedom to not listen. Freedom of speech does not include any right to come into my home and speak to me despite my desire to not be spoken to.

"discriminate against an industry that provides millions of jobs"? So do laws against drug peddling, mugging, burglary, murder for hire, blackmail, and so on. If there were any desire on the part of Bushco to save millions of jobs, they would eliminate policies that facilitate outsourcing.

[SuffragetteSal]

54. you have a point

same as for door to door salesmen. Legally if you put up a 'No solicitating' sign they have to abide by it and not knock on your door. The same should be for using the phone for solicitation.

[bluestateguy]

42. I will step up my nastiness to telemarketers

I don't buy this "they are just doing their jobs" crap. That phrase was also used at the Nuremburg trials.

[Selwynn]

50. Woot! Idaho state no-call list still goin strong!

Thank god for states rights! (hehe just kidding) :D

[StopThief]

51. Bush appointee?

Nope. Unfortunately he was appointed by Jimmy Carter in 1979.

[DrGonzoLives]

52. Where did I say Bush appointee?

I swear to Christ, I have really fucking had it today with people putting words in my mouth.

[SuffragetteSal]

53. good news is that

this may help set a precedent for the internet. I know we all don't want spam but it also helps us keep our rights here on the internet under the 'freedom or speech' ruling.

[kskiska]

65. I was really looking forward to some peace and quiet

Another problem is junk faxes. Fax toner is expensive, and I keep getting junk faxes wanting to sell me – fax toner!!!

[reprobate]

68. Get a Tele-zapper! They work. And no, I don't have stock in them.

I've had one for six months or so. It cut down on telemarketing calls immediately, and over a few weeks eliminated them completely.

The peace at dinner time is well worth the few dollars at radio shack.

No, I don,t sell them or own stock in them. Have no commercial interest in them. End of disclaimer.

Eventually the telemarketers will upgrade their technology and get around the tele-zapper, but until then we will enjoy our privacy.

[Atlant]

98. Or record the "intercept" tones at the beginning of your...

Or record the "intercept" tones at the beginning of your
answering machine's Outgoing Message.

http://www.artofhacking.com/files/sounds/SIT-IC.WAV

(And many other places)


By the way, the SIT (intercept) tones OR the Telezapper will
freak out your callers; we tried it for a while and had to
give it up.

Atlant

[patcox2]

73. Here's the deal for all you idiots who think this decision is ideological

It isn't.

The do-not-call list was created by regulation, not legislation. The regulatory agency, here the FTC, has to have statutory authority to enact any regulation. In this case, the FTC based their action on a 12 year old law that said nothing whatsoever about creating a do-not-call list.

There is a legitimate legal dispute over whether this was within the regulatory authority of the FTC. A dispute wityh absolutely no ideological dimension. It was widely commented on at the time the regulation was proposed.

It has nothing to do with republican vs. democrat and liberal vs. conservative, though it might have something to do with the totalitarian vs. libertarian axis.

Sad to see so many totalitarian lefties here today. And extremely un-informed ones.

By the way, leave the judge alone, you sound like idiot freepers with this talk of harrassing him.

As a final note, there has long been a rule that telemarketers must maintain an internal do-not-call list. Politely inform them "I want to be placed on your do not call list." Its much more effective than proving what an asshole you are by being mean to some poor single mother trying to earn a living.

[hippiechick]

79. Bravo !

I totally agree.
It's not the fault of the actual callers that they have to work at these sucky jobs - I know very few people who actually enjoy calling people they don't know to ask them to buy shit they don't want.

Having worked in a Legal Privacy Office and researched the various no-all/no-spam laws as they were developed, I know that nearly every state now has its own list which anyone can access by going to their state gov'ts website, usually under the Attorney General or Consumer Protection divisions.

Failing that, there is still such a thing as caller id, and non-published numbers to keep yourself off telemarketer lists.

Give the working stooges a break ... they're just tryin' to live thru the Bush economy like the rest of us.



:hippie:

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Spider Jerusalem]

76. Wow. What a tremendous lot of psychopathically angry people.

I'm kind of surprised. You know, if you don't want to have to talk to telemarketers, the telephone company offers two nifty little services: one of them is called "Caller ID", the other is called "Privacy Director". The few dollars' expenditure that these cost per month seems to me better than the enactment of a wrongheaded idea that will lead to the loss of perhaps two million jobs, in an economy that's already staggering, by people who can ill afford to lose them.

But this little fact seems to cut no ice with most of you...in fact, at least one person goes as far as to compare telemarketers to Nazis. (Skinner should invoke Godwin's Law and lock the thread now, eh?)

Telemarketing is just one of the less pleasant thngs we have to deal with, as a result of the freedom we (mostly) still have in this country...yet people want to VOLUNTARILY limit and infringe upon our freedom-of-speech laws because of something that inconveniences them a little. Sad.

[Coventina]

77. Give me a break

This has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

If I post a "no soliciting" sign on my property then you are not allowed to knock on my door to try and sell me things.
I pay the phone company money for the use of my phone. I do NOT pay the phone company money so that unwanted callers can call me up to try and sell me things I do not want.

IT IS THE SAME PRINCIPLE!

[Sterling]

78. Get a real job

And that goes for every asshole who works in that scam.

[hippiechick]

81. you've obviously never been poor with kids to feed ....

or rent to pay ... or lacking the skill set to snag a six-figure income. lucky you.

some people aren't so lucky, and doing whatever they can to stay off the streets and off welfare. you should give them a break.


:hippie:

[Coventina]

85. By that logic

The native Phillipinos are justified in their destructive harvesting of reef corals and fish because they are desperately poor and the work is readily available.

Doing something shitty to get by doesn't justify the shittiness of it.

[smb]

110. Need Doesn't Excuse Everything

As several people have pointed out already, by this argument we should allow prostitution, drug dealing, burglary, mugging, extortion, etc -- after all, the practitioners of this trade are simply trying to obtain a living.

(That said, if I ran the zoo prostitution and drugs would be legal and telemarketing without prior consent of the recipient would be banned.)

[Spider Jerusalem]

90. I don't work in telemarketing.

And wouldn't. You shouldn't make unfounded assumptions; it just makes you look silly.

[liberalhistorian]

95. But why in the hell should we have to PAY

for services to keep these mothers from harassing us 12 or 15 times a day? And why should we have to deal with them on the phone at all if we don't want to?

It has NOTHING to do with "free speech", people are NOT free to come into the homes of others if those people don't want them to be there. Just as a "No Soliciting" sign on a house is not a violation of a door-to-door salesman's "free speech" rights, neither is a law forbidding pushy harassing sales calls if you don't want to receive them! It's a hassle just to have to answer the fucking phone 15 times a day for sales calls you don't want! I'm sorry, but that's a violation of MY rights, not some company's so-called "free speech" rights!

The phone is there for MY convenience, and not to provide jobs for people to call and harass me when I don't want their calls.

[billfromwny]

83. Do Not Call has worked well here in NY

my calls from telemarketers are few and far between now; but people who didn't sign up right away were getting even more than they used to. I just had on the Evening News, and like they mentioned...there is no way Congress is going to ignore the wishes of 50 million Americans over what one judge says. Hatred of telemarketers is pretty bipartisan!

[sam sarrha]

91. anyone know how i can program my computer to call those assholes

back 10,000 times a minute for the rest of the century ? I get so many calls i have to screen everything with my machine... most of them are empty calls... machine no answer calls, at least a dozen times a day.

[smb]

100. It Just Needs A Bug Fix

This ruling is based on a technical bug in the law (according to the judge, when Congress *allocated money* to the FTC to run the DNC list, it did not actually *authorize* the FTC to do that). The judge did not buy the telepesterers' bogus "constitutional" arguments.

Congress just needs to pass a corrected bill -- and they will PDQ, because EVERYBODY across the political spectrum from DU to FR (except the telepesterers' paid shills) supports the DNC list concept.

[ProfessorGAC]

101. It's Ok By Me

Hey, these people have to make a living too. I know it's annoying, but passing a law to prevent people from being annoying kind of bothers me. I was never in favor of this legislation.
The Professor

[skippysmom]

111. Just hang up...

I just say I'm not interested, thank you, and hang up. If I pick up the phone and hear nothing, I hang up, because it is probably a telemarketer. We signed up for the do not call lists in Mass and nationally and thankfully don't get too many calls.

The question I have is -- who's buying this stuff? Everyone claims to hate telemarketing, yet someone must buy these things they're selling, else they wouldn't spend so much money on telemarketing. If Americans stopped buying from telemarketers, the industry would simply fade away. Same goes for spammers.