Daschle supports proposal on guns

[Freddie Stubbs]

Manufacturers get lawsuit protection

WASHINGTON - Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle signed on Thursday to a bill backed by the National Rifle Association that would shield gun manufacturers and retailers from liability in most lawsuits.

The South Dakotan, who is up for re-election next year, had waited to commit to the measure - the NRA's top legislative priority this year.

Daschle had said he supported the bill's principles but was concerned that it might block some legitimate lawsuits. In exchange for his support, the bill's authors agreed to clarify some language about which lawsuits would be allowed.

Gun-control advocates and many urban mayors have been hoping to use lawsuits against gun makers and retailers to crack down on gun violence. Industry representatives counter that the lawsuits could bankrupt gun manufacturers. The pending legislation would block all lawsuits except in cases where gun makers or sellers illegally sold guns to people who should not qualify for them or in cases where the weapons malfunctioned.

more: http://www.argusleader.com/washingtonbureau/Fridayfeature.shtml

[MrBenchley]

1. Disgraceful

No other industry wants or needs this sort of blanket immunity...

This is especially aimed at keeping the lawsuits against the gun store that armed both the Beltway sniper AND Burford Furrow out of court....because of what it would publicly reveal about the industry's practices.

[Don Galt]

2. Practices?

What practices would be publically revealed? Is there some secret that these stores have?

I've always just assumed you went in, paid your money, and got the gun... I guess they must do the background check somewhere in there.

Also, who's Buford Furrow?

Thanks!

[Sinistrous]

7. Buford Furrow:

http://eyeonhate.com/pows/pows5.html

Also, a note to MrBenchley: It might be a bit late to keep Mr. Furrow out of court as he seems to have already been convicted and sentenced.

[newyawker99]

13. Hi Don Galt!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[demdave]

3. All other industries enjoy these same benefits

Name one other industry that can be sued for the criminal misuse of it's product. What this law does is stop the emotion based, frivilous lawsuits. It does not protect against defective product or intentional skirting of any laws designed to keep the guns out of the hands of criminals.


Should we be able to sue Ford because of a road rage incident? NO.

[Occulus]

8. But Firestone should have gone down

or, at least, someone should be serving time for depraved indifference at the very least. Ken Lay should be in jail until the end of time.

Are they? No.

Corporate personhood- AGAIN!

Surprise!

[demdave]

9. Nice rant but I fail to see how that influences this issue.

[LeftHander]

4. They want it because

They create products (handguns and assault weapons) that are designed with a single purpose....

To drive a projectile at high velocity through the air with the intent to punch a hole in a human being at a safe distance.

A 9mm Glock has no other purpose than to kill a person.

When thier products are used as designed someone dies.

Some however are designed for pure target shooting. Like a High Standard Olympic 22 cal target pistol. A 9mm in competition shooting shoots at human shaped targets in general.

[demdave]

5. Home defense, target practice, hunting, skeet, trap, just pure enjoyment.

I also use firearms during family outings. It is a bonding experience that also has includes a heavy dose of responsibility, self-control and restraint and attention to details. Not everyone can have or afford the type of high-end guns you have described. (about $600 US used) We have 1 or 2 weapons that are multi use.


It is arrogant and elitist to believe that only the rich should be able to enjoy firearms and protect their families.

[not systems]

10. family fun

Gun are good family fun. I have lots of good childhood
memories of target shooting and hunting with my father
and grandfather.

This plan to shutdown gun shops and gun makers through
the court should be stopped.

Gun makers should be liable for defective guns that
don't work correctly but not ones that do.

[kwolf68]

11. Thats really sad

I also have memories of hunting with my father. It is a pathetic state of existence in the heart of a man who finds the only way to draw closer to his son is to go in the woods and kill animals.

I have a son and our relationship will not be cultivated behind the barrel of a gun.

The GREAT thing about my hunting experience is the first few animals I killed is when I was ALONE hunting. There was no one there to massage my masochistic urges and predatory instincts.

All that was there was me and a dead animal I had chosen to kill. I killed 3 animals this way (bird and two squirrels) and would subsequently continue to hunt, but only did so out of obligation and the pseudo-ritualistic notion that the only way my dad and me could become closer was to kill shit. I rarely hit my targets and would soon give up hunting. Thankfully my dad also gave up hunting as he pursued business interests.

What created the disdain in hunting for me was the actual experience of hunting devoid of that "bonding" which is actually a psychological fixation to desensitize young children to the death they have caused.

Had I killed those animals with other hunters, they would have told me what a great thing it was, boosted my already over-inflated ego and lionized the fact I had successfully killed an animal who just happened to be in front of my weapon.

In short, I simply don’t respect the mass cadre of hunters. I am sure there are a few (a horrible tiny amount) who really understand the reality of it all instead of being in their inert state of delusion.

[not systems]

16. Save it for someone who fits your projection.

I'm sorry that "the only way to draw closer to his son is to go in
the woods and kill animals" was the case in your family, it was not
in mine.

I don't hunt myself mostly because of living in a city and
am not much of a meat eater but your deconstruction of the
ritual of hunting as a sad excuse for health father son bonding
I can't let go unanswered.

I grew up in a rural area and had a gun at age six. I
hunted a little and shot at targets alot. Never shot myself
, never shot the neighbor, and never took a gun to school.

My grandfather who is 1/4 native american considered hunting
to be part of his culture and he grew up on a cattle ranch in
Montana. He hardly fits your idea of the great white hunter.

Hunted game and the ways it is prepared were part of our
family history and tradition. I agree the cadre of rich
urbanites acting out cowboy fantasies turn my hunting
memories upsidedown. I don't believe your experience is
any more valid than mine and would prefer if you withhold
you condemnation of mine.

[demdave]

17. Sorry you feel that way about your father, maybe he has issues also.

I understand how you must feel if your only relationship with your father was cultivated behind the barrel of a gun. It is truly sad that the only way your father and you could become closer was to kill things. I would also suspect the implied loss of fatherly time to his pursuing business interests plays a large part in your memories. This is not my field, but I am sure there are people out there that you could talk to that might me able to ease your pain.

Bonding is not merely a psychological fixation to desensitize young children to anything. I believe, with time, you and your son may find it an enjoyable experience no matter what activity you engage in during it. Good luck.

[NickB79]

15. And if the killing is justified?

So what if the gun is designed to kill another human being, if the gun is legally sold to people who plan on using them in self-defense? Use of deadly force to defend oneself from bodily harm is still legal, no? Can anyone name one gun intentionally marketted to criminals? I've read many gun magazines, many gun advertisements in them, and have yet to see one ad reading "This gun is a must-have for all you gang-bangers." No gun magazine, much less gun manufacturer, would do something so stupid and blatantly illegal.

[dolstein]

6. I can't blame Daschle for this

I didn't like this bill in its original form, but I don't think Daschle should sacrifice his own political career to defeat it, especially if he was able to get some changes made in exchange for his support.

[laconicsax]

12. It's a good thing...not a bad thing

Gun manufacturers make a product. LeftHander said the sole use is "To drive a projectile at high velocity through the air with the intent to punch a hole in a human being at a safe distance."

Sorry LeftHander, that isn't the sole use. There are guns made specifically for target shooting and guns made specifically for hunting. Just because original use of a gun was to kill someone, doesn't mean that it's the only use.

If someone obtains a gun legally and uses it in a crime, it isn't the fault of the manufacturer or the dealer.

If someone goes and buys a car, then uses it to run down some kids at a bus stop, is it the fault of the dealer or the manufacturer?

If someone buys some bottles of vodka and gives them to minors, gets alcohol poisoning and dies, or uses them to make molitov cocktails, is the liquor store liable?

If someone buys a computer and uses it to connect to the internet and publish the names and addresses of people they say need to be killed, and someone goes out and kills them, is it the computer maker's fault?

All this bill does is get rid of a double standard.

[w4rma]

14. Fine with me. This is low on my list of priorities and, on the suface,

the bill seems to be prety good after Daschle's changes. I don't want to see a bill the protects gun makers from a malfunctioning weapon. This bill doesn't seem to do that according to this article.