Dean calls Clark a Beltway puppet

[Nambe]

THE WASHINGTON TIMES (rag)

Presidential hopeful Howard Dean yesterday attacked retired Gen. Wesley Clark as a puppet of "establishment politicians" while repeatedly and explicitly comparing his own policies to those of former President Bill Clinton.

"I think what you see in the Wes Clark candidacy is a somewhat of a desperation by inside-the-Beltway politicians," Mr. Dean said.

"You've got a lot of establishment politicians now surrounding a general who was a Republican until 25 days ago," said Mr. Dean, who assumed Mr. Clark was once a Republican because he served in the military and voted for Ronald Reagan.

"I do not think that the solution for Democrats to ... win again is to draft Republicans and to support people who have been in Washington for 25 and 30 years," Mr. Dean said. ---

[eileen_d]

1. I have a question

When a clue falls in the Washington Times, does it make a sound?

[KittyWampus]

36. My Question-Where Does Dean Say "Puppet?"

Looks like the "Inside the Beltway" Washington Times is inventing phrases....

[grasswire]

2. Dean better watch it...

...because there are an awful lot of us who won't tolerate the beating up of another Dem candidate, and will go to Gephardt or someone else.

First, do no harm. He ought to recognize that rule.

[arcos]

4. yeah, right...

is that because Gephardt doesn't engage in beating up other candidates?
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&ncid=703&e=4&u=/ap/20030928/ap_on_el_pr/gephardt_dean

[Marlie]

6. Dean is becoming very disappointing

How in the world does it help our party to have our candidates
tearing each other apart. I'm surprised and disappointed in Dean -
perhaps he, as the Republicans is very, very afraid of Clark.

The thing is, say for instance, Clark is the candidate to run against
Bush, the republican ads will include and highlight what our
candidates are saying about each other now and it will sound even
harsher in those ads. One thing about Clark, presently he's only
bashing Bush and I hope it stays that way. I wish they would all
take that tactic.

[Eloriel]

44. EXCEPT when it needs to be revealed that

Clark has been put in the race specifically to stop Dean, by other Democrats. And it's NOT because Dean is unelectable - it's precisely because he IS electable AND the movement that has formed around him, which is intent on "taking back our country" from ALL the special interests and putting it in the hands, for the first time in a very long while, of THe People.

He's raising his money from small donors -- people like you and me. He's running a grassroots, Open Source iterative Presidential Campaign in which he and his campaign listen carefully, respond and adopt the ideas of his supporters -- people like you and me. He's not bought, he's not handled, he's free and able to respond to The People. He is revitalizing the democratic process itself, and it's very scary for some who do not want to let go of THEIR power (which isn't The People's Power).

So he has become unbelievably dangerous for those who do NOT want to let go of their power and influence -- the DNC, the DLC, and people like the Clintons.

I should've paid attention when Bill Clinton said a few weeks ago that "there are two stars in the Democratic Party -- Hillary Clinton and Wesley Clark." I should've listend when Hillary gave a glowing review of Clark to a reporter, but said, "but this isn't an endorsement, I can't endorse anyone." I should've paid attention when Howard Fineman wrote a column about the Stop Dean effort in the party. But when Clark finally announced and then shortly thereafter I heard him spouting some DLC talking points, and THEN it was revealed that not only was Clinton "encouraging him to run," but a bunch of ex-Clinton aides and campaign workers had joined his campaign, I got it.

Bill Clinton does NOT have the right to pick our nominee for us, especially when he's thwarting the will of the people to do so. I have been increasingly "over" the Clintons (and Bill IS the only Republican I ever voted for), but this little move clinches it for me. He is NOT a friend of democracy, AFIC, or The People. And he needs to get the hell out of this primary race. Period.


Here' some reading for you:

WTF, Clark Was Planning on Running as a Republican ?!!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=423043

Wesley Clark for President?
Another Con Job from the Neo-Cons
Wayne Madsen
http://thomasmc.com/0919b.htm

and: The Awful Truth About General Wesley Clark, A Dissident Voice News Service Compilation, September 18, 2003
Updated: September 27, 2003
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles8/DVNS_Wesley-Clark.htm

Still Clinton's Show?
Wm Greider
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20030217&s=greider

=======================

[Jackhammer Jesus]

67. There's one GLARING lie, Eloriel.

You're entitled to your own opinions on Dean and Clark, but HOW could you POSSIBLY try to pass off the following quote as a fact: :tinfoilhat: "Clark has been put in this race specifically to stop Dean." :tinfoilhat:

And how did you find that Dean is trying to INFORM us of this by suddenly waffling on his opinion of Clark, from having nothing but good things to say about him before he entered the race (as well as fueling speculation on a Dean-Clark ticket, whether on purpose or inadvertently) to now trying to bring Clark down in the eyes of his supporters, apparently to keep himself from losing ground in the polls. He certainly made clear in the past that he thought Clark was a good man, they spoke often, and Dean wanted Clark's support (and potentially a VP slot if you trust the speculation - but hell, you trust that Clark's secretly a Republican, so you should have no trouble believing it).

Instead of making an assumption that Dean is trying to reveal Clark as a Republican in disguise (who ironically has almost the same political views as Dean! Look: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=423028), you could take a look at the more obvious fact that Dean is no longer the frontrunner in the race now that Clark has joined, as the polls are consistantly showing. And, you know, considering Clark's relative lack of plans and policies, I'd be pissed off if I were a Dean supporter too.

You mentioned Dean's electability too. I really don't want to start another debate about this, there have been countless discussions about it already, but this is my take on it: I certainly can't DEFINE electability and all the factors that influence it, but if I can point to one piece of evidence relative to this election to indicate that it DOES exist, it's the fact that Clark jumped to the front of the polls immediately upon entering the race, WITHOUT having articulated any real plans. Essentially, he had the LEAST to offer of all the candidates when he entered the race, but he still had a majority of mainstream support. That's an indicator of electability, IMHO. It SEEMS to me that Dean supporters in general are grasping for some explanation of this, be it that he's a Republican puppet, a Clinton puppet, accusing him of being "sent" into the race by desperate party insiders - none of which can be backed up with anything but speculation. If the fact that he spoke at a Republican fundraiser indicates that he is a Republican, you obviously have a clear bias and no one can really hope to change your mind as long as you can come up with some speculation or opinion that supports your own. AND you effectively ignore the fact that a grassroots Draft movement led to Clark deciding to seek the nomination in the first place. My point is, there's just as much evidence that Clark is a legitimate Democrat as there is that he's a Republican. Just as much on both sides is speculation - what IS NOT speculation, and what's MOST IMPORTANT to me, is where he stands on the issues NOW, which clearly indicates to me that he is a Democrat and his views are essentially in line with my own. Incidentally, Dean's are also close to my own, but many of his rabid puppets have turned me off. I use the term "puppet" only in reference to several Dean supporters who, once Dean accused Clark of being a Republican, began to respond to just about EVERY thread about Clark by saying "CLARK IS REALLY A REPUBLICAN." Before that, all anyone could safely speculate is that he voted for Republicans in the 80s and did one fundraiser in 2001. In a direct comparison, he voted for Clinton through the 90's and Gore in 2000, as well as fundraising for Democrats in 2002 - notice the plural there. All signs point to Democrat, people!

I would also contend your claim that Clinton "chose" Clark to be the Democratic nominee. Can't be proven true or false. What I can prove false is that his endorsement of Clark is "thwarting the will of the people." Way to project your own opinions upon the entirety of the American public! The polls indicate otherwise - I can point to the USA Today/Gallup poll in which Clark and Kerry were the only candidates to beat Bush, who still had a considerable lead over Dean.

Phew. I realize this has just become one rant vs. another rant, and I hope no innocent bystanders get caught in the flames. :evilgrin: It's becoming more and more apparent to me - and yes, this is purely opinion - that there are quite a few Dean idolaters who seem to think that Dean is running a revolutionary campaign and that somehow he has earned the presidential nomination - apparently they think NO ONE should be allowed to get in his way, and once someone does there are conspiracy theories and accusations abound in a rabid attempt to tear them down and let Jesus H. Dean reclaim his political throne. Because he deserves it.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

77. Well put, Eloriel. The enemies of my enemies are not my friends.

There's a lot of du posting allegience to any proclaimed democrat. Likewise, non-critical adulation of Clinton/Clark. It's hard for folks here to admit that even Clinton/Clark worked with the military-industrial-congressional complex and allowed the continued corporate rape of the planet while he voiced support for 'liberal' social issues which mainly placated would-be critics from his own party. It's a dirtier world than many are willing to face.

[Tellurian]

18. Clark is Jewish.

with problems in the ME can we ever assume, as presidnet, Clark will do things for the betterment of all concerned. This could become a huge imbroglio the Republicans will carry like a badge of honor at election time, creating a defacto election.

Dean, by far is the best candidate.

He rides into the election with NO BAGGAGE!

[VolcanoJen]

19. Am I to assume that Dean supporters advocate anti-Semitic...

... positions among their ranks? I really have to scratch my head at the sentiment.

"Vote for Dean... He's no Jew!"

Sickened, and I imagine Dean would be too,
Jennifer

[stickdog]

21. Yep. Only his wife & kids are! (NT)

[0007]

23. You know what they say when one

"assumes"?

[Kahuna]

40. Especially since Mrs. Dean is Jewish.

Boy the leaps of logic people make.. :eyes:

[TAH6988]

26. No, CLark is not Jewish

He is Catholic. Converted from being a Baptist during VietNam.

[hippiechick]

49. Threads over the weekend in GD - Clark IS of Jewish heritage.

n/t


:hippie:

[PsychoDad]

35. Seems like he's creating his own baggage...

n/t

[last1standing]

42. You know Kennedy couldn't be trusted to not follow the Pope!

In other words, quit giving Dean a bad name and join up with LaRouche. He's a Democrat who would appreciate you.

last1standing.

[coralrf]

57. So Clark carries the Jew bag???

Your words my man. Wolfie is a Jew. Perle is a Jew. They seem to have no problems with that.

If Dean needs an anti-Semitic aura to get to Clark (who is not a Jew) I would think it is Dean that carries the bags. The bags of hypocrisy and bigotry.

[last1standing]

61. Come on Coralrf!

You know it's just this bigot's veiwpoint and not Dean's at issue here. Quit trying to link a good Democrat with this guy and think instead to the fact that you might have to choose between Dean and bush* next year.

We have several good candidates running this cycle. I'll be proud to vote for almost any of them.

last1standing.

[henslee]

75. Breaking... Clark & Lieberman doing the hora on C-Span 2..

[loyalsister]

51. Ouch

I really think he may have lost some support from some sort of key people in my area who were leaning his way with that. They have run for office themselves, and there is nothing they hate more than negative politics.

[Maple]

3. The candidates have to fight it out

amongst themselves first.

Then the winner goes up against Bush.

That's what this stage is for.

It isn't a tea party for goodness sakes.

[ozone_man]

32. Exactly, otherwise you end up with choices like Scharzenegger,

when it come time for the election. Let the debates continue. It seems that Clark has been floated in to the process by TPTB to try and save them from Dean. But I think Dean will eventually shine through.

[fshrink]

53. Yup!

I have a feeling the little guy is tougher than he looks.

[rooboy]

5. It's time to end all this silliness...

and give Joe Lieberman the nomination. :evilgrin:

[WillyBrandt]

7. The Washington Times?

The one owned by Rev Moon?

The one populated with racists and neo-Confederates?

Ah, well. It bashs Clark. It does the job.

(spelling edit)

[LauraK]

8. I have some serious reservations about Clark.

His European command was hardly well managed by any stretch. The UN was the backbone of all that went well.

[catforclark2004]

10. I have no reservation about Clark

Can you give me some insight on how exactly "his european command was hardlky well managed by any stretch..."?.....like a President doesn't have a congress.....and billions and billions of dollars to be well managed. This critizism of Clark is not valid nor reasonable.

[Dookus]

13. hrmm...

he received multiple commendations and honorary knighthoods from Europe. He led a war in which NO American lives were lost - a historical first.

I'd say he did OK in the job.

[bearfartinthewoods]

55. would the same thing be true if his orders regarding the taking of the

russian held airport been followed?

he could have been responsible for WWIII. i doubt he'd been knighted in that case or that there would have been zero casualties.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

78. "...no American lives were lost." Just lots of innocent civilians.

Do the research on Kosovo.

[juajen]

14. OMG, Tell us more

I had no idea we had an insider here. Please enlighten us with why you made this statement and back it up.

[He loved Big Brother]

9. Dean plays "Captain Obvious" very nicely

I admire that, I really do.

Oh, and he didn't vote for Raygun or King Bush the 1st, either. What a guy!

[Room101]

11. I guess that we can forget about a

Dean/Clark , Clark/Dean ticket :cry:

[TAH6988]

27. I don't think

that was EVER on the table. Both their egos are too huge to play second fiddle to the other.

[Kahuna]

41. I'm thankful for that.

nt

[Shanty Oilish]

12. I've noticed something about Howard Dean

Maybe it's his natural tendency to shoot from the lip, because it appears painfully unnatural when he's diplomatic and cordial toward his rivals. Yet that's what he's been, whenever possible. So I figure when he drops the civility, he must be on very solid ground.

[LeftIsBest]

15. DEAN IS THE BEST CANDIDATE

Almost all of the posts so far have been dissapointing. You all say Dean is mean bla bla bla. Let's be realistic, do you want a real democrat in office or a reagan and bush 1 voting clinton ass kissing general with no political experience in office. I'm sorry i'm not going to compromise my values because Clark is more popular on a national level.

Dean has the most energy of any candidate hands down, and he's not a beltway politican ready to give in at any moment to prop up his polls and keep his fat pocket and powerful jewish contributors happy. For godsakes his average donation is around $60 and he is still raising money like mad.

DEAN FOR AMERICA nuff' said.

[10digits]

16. How romantic!

If Dean wins he will be a rube just like Carter,a loser. Inside the "beltway" is the majors,Dean is playing for the mudhens.

[stickdog]

22. Pro-establishment, pro-status quo sentiments are pro-foundly

disturbing.

[VolcanoJen]

17. Was it necessary to use the words "powerful jewish contributors..."

to make your point that I should vote for Dean?

Because, your point was absolutely lost on me when I read that line.

[tsipple]

38. "LeftIsBest"? 27 Posts?

VolcanoJen, you know what's going with that poster, right?

Let's put it this way. "LeftIsBest" hasn't sent any money to the Democratic National Committee lately. :-)

[leetrisck]

20. Washington Times????

Gee isn't that where everyone gets their news about Democratic candidates?

[onehandle]

24. Thus, Nambe warned "(rag)". nt

nt

[LizW]

29. Well, it is worth noting

that the word "puppet", used prominently in the headline, was not spoken by Dean. Read the whole article. Or better yet, the transcript of FTN. He didn't say it, the WT did. The headline is a lie.

His actual words were much more tempered, and less inflammatory. But I guess that wasn't good enough for this "paper".

[robbedvoter]

25. Dean: "Welcome to the Dem party - but only if you vote for me"

Otherwise, you have to show a pedigree...
I liked the fact that he didn't take ths bait during the debate: "Let the voters decide". It was nice. I guess he doesn't trust us to do that and it's easier to attack when your opponent can't answer on the spot.

[phillybri]

28. Wasn't Dean courting this "puppet" to be his VP a few weeks ago???

:shrug:

[farmbo]

30. The word "puppet" comes from the Rev Moon...NOT Howard Dean!

...and since when do DU'ers run Moonie Times articles bashing Democrats as LBN?

[JNelson6563]

31. Interesting....

Presidential hopeful Howard Dean yesterday attacked retired Gen. Wesley Clark as a puppet of "establishment politicians" while repeatedly and explicitly comparing his own policies to those of former President Bill Clinton.

Note the word "puppet" is not in quotes. Nice.

"I think what you see in the Wes Clark candidacy is a somewhat of a desperation by inside-the-Beltway politicians," Mr. Dean said.

Frankly I get this impression as well. It really hit me when Clark announced. Just a feeling, my opinion, for whatever that's worth.

"You've got a lot of establishment politicians now surrounding a general who was a Republican until 25 days ago," said Mr. Dean, who assumed Mr. Clark was once a Republican because he served in the military and voted for Ronald Reagan.

The thing about Clark that bothers me has nothing to do with who he voted for in the past, what concerns me are the glowing words he gave to this administration. It reminds me of very knowledgable Dem Congress-persons claiming they trusted Jr. Inconceivable.

"I do not think that the solution for Democrats to ... win again is to draft Republicans and to support people who have been in Washington for 25 and 30 years," Mr. Dean said. ---

Stressing the outside-the-beltway position. Old campaign strategy, a proven winner at that. Folks are perpetually tired of the Insiders.

Julie

[robbedvoter]

33. Desperation? Which part of "Draft Clark" did you miss?

You may want to take a look at another LBN story before you buy selectively Moonie spin:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=137937
I find it interesting that you have the savy to see the words they put in Dean mouth, but you chose to accept the spin that favors your candidate (in spite of knowing perfectly well from being on DU that tjere was a grass roots movement)

[JNelson6563]

37. What are you talking about?

I find it interesting that you have the savy to see the words they put in Dean mouth, but you chose to accept the spin that favors your candidate (in spite of knowing perfectly well from being on DU that tjere was a grass roots movement)

Huh?

Are you saying that desperate party insiders who saw none of their establishment choices flourishing throwing their support substantial behind Clark had nothing to do with his decision to run? Do you feel there were no desperate party insiders?

Or what?

Julie

[Kahuna]

69. As you can plainly see if you reread my post..

I did say that the DLC may have concluded that if there was an outcry from the draft movement for Clark to run, It might be wise for them to support his run.

I am not denying that the DLC possibly did encourage Clark to run to stop Dean. I have always acknowledged that may be true. But I'm also saying is the objective is to beat bush. And if the DLC doesn't believe that Dean can take out bush, than I for one am very thankful for their support for a candidate who demonstrated in less than four days that he can beat bush, vs. one who has been campaigning for a year and still lags the rest of the candidates against bush.

You don't seem to understand that the primaries are to select the most electable candidate. You don't seem to get it. Thank God, the DLC gets it. Especially after they erred in influencing Gore not to run. They owe us this much.

[JNelson6563]

73. First of all

I was replying to another post not yours so trying to take me to task for not studying your words closely enough is nonsensical.

Secondly, ok, so the DLC has selected this candidate for us to put in the WH, thank goddess they did since independent thinking is beyond us. Glad you are more honest than some about Clark's candidacy.

Sorry, it's not my thing, I don't begrudge you it's yours. I let no one make my choices for me. I don't care who the establishment wants in fact I blame them for our sorry state today.

Julie

[tsipple]

39. Bill Clinton Ran Against Washington Insiders

And look where that got him! The nerve!

[JNelson6563]

63. Exactly!

Like Dean said when asked about his chances considering he was Governor of Vermont. He smiled and said he remembered the last time a Governor from a small rural state ran. :-)

Julie

[Mz Pip]

74. Clark is about as "outside" as you can get

Dean saying Clark is an insider doesn't make it so.

These accusations coming from Dean just make him look desperate.

Dean has changed his mind so many times on so many issues and that's fine, but it's pretty disingenuous of him to critcize Clark for for votng for Nixon and Reagan when he neglects to say that Clark voted for Clinton and Gore.

MzPip
:dem:

[Bucky__Badger]

34. that pretty much does it for me.

I just tossed my "Dean For America" envelope in the trash and tore up the check I was going to send to his campaign. I'm not a Clark supporter, but I am no longer supporting Dean either. We've got the 'pugs on the run and all our guys can do is trash each other?

I'm waiting until we have a nominee. Then I'm contributing, and in November I'll vote straight ticket dem.

Governor Dean... I liked you so much better when you bashed Awol and not your fellow Dems. And no I couldn't care less WHO STARTED THIS INNANE PISSING CONTEST WE'RE CALLING A PRIMARY CAMPAIGN!

<end rant>

[w4rma]

45. Note, Dean never used the word "puppet". That's Rev. Moon's term.

Here's the transcript:
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/001616.html#more

[SayitAintSo]

43. BOY I hate to agree with Peggy Noonan... BUT ....

She referred to Dean as a bit of a "tempest in a teapot" .... ready to blow any time.... The way he is bashing Clark at this time is inexcusable ... The pugs will just turn that around on us if Clark get's the nom. Maybe we have our own "whistle -ass" here .... eh ?

Cool it Dean ....for the party ....

[Sean Reynolds]

52. How the hell is the TRUTH a BASH?

Dean didn't BASH Clark, he only pointed out the truth.

So if the truth to Clark is bashing, maybe he should get out of the race? :shrugs:

[loyalsister]

59. I know what you mean

It is also very dangerous. A candidate not afraid to use some harsh language. Rove may out of his bag of tricks- one of the alternate images? If they parade Shrub as a helpless dumb guy. Picture spin "after all this poor president\hero has done for us, by being "strong" during the war."
Criticism may have to be against "the adiministration." If Dean is the nominee he would have to watch his temper very carefully. If any candidate does it just right, however, he can probably pull a seriously obnoxious response out of *.
One of the most perfect lines one could use against him would be, a very calm- "You should be ashamed of yourself."
That narcissist would go ballistic!

[dArKeR]

46. Beltway Whore!

[dolstein]

47. "A Republican until 25 days ago"

Does Howard Dean have any proof that Wes Clark was a registered Republican as recently as 25 days ago? Does he have proof that Clark was ever registered as a Republican?

It has always been my understanding that Clark was nonpartisan during his time in the military. It is also my understanding that in 2002, Clark campagined only on behalf of Democratic candidates. Now, I may be just another inside-the-beltway puppet, but I think 2002 was more than 25 days ago.

[LoneStarLiberal]

48. Gotta Love That Moonie Gasoline

So I guess it's not bad enough that our respective camps are already doing an increasingly good job of going after one another, but the Moonie Times needs to make it worse and tag-line an article then not give the context of their title.

When is it going to be Kool-Aid Time for these guys?

[returnable]

50. The Times article aside, Dean IS panicking

Dean did accuse Clark of being a Republican until 25 days ago on "Face the Nation" yesterday and accused him of being a plant of a "desperate" DLC.

I watched his interview with some bemusement yesterday. I remember during the debate on Thursday, Dean was given a chance to address Clark's "cred" as a Democrat. And he passed.

Some folks here took pride in the "class" Dean showed by not taking the bait.

But he showed his true colors this weekend. He wasn't showing "class" - he was displaying cowardice. He had a chance to engage Clark face-to-face on this topic, and he hid.

The same "Republican" Clark that Dean was lobbying for support (and possible Veep slot) just "25 days ago."

<personal editorial>The only one sounding desperate is Dean</personal editorial>

[coralrf]

54. Dean the conservative...

or if he is not he sure is missing a good chance. Lets look at these quotes for similarities to those of pukes.

"Wes Clark candidacy is a somewhat of a desperation by inside-the-Beltway politicians".

Can anyone count how many times that trite hackneyed approach has been used by the GOP and RNC? Calling your opponent 'Desperate' is the mantra of the right and look who is talking.



"You've got a lot of establishment politicians............ who was a Republican until 25 days ago"


Establishment...dear me. Its a first cousin of 'Desperation' and its use Standard Operating Procedure by the RNC. True, the use of GOP language by the doctor only makes him look like a Puke but sharing the trait of deliberately, (not mistakenly but deliberately) misstating facts makes him one and the same with them. Clark, republican, democrat or anarchist voted for Clinton in 1992 and 1996. He voted for Al Gore in 2000 which gives him a perfect Democratic voting record for over 10 years. Dean knows this as it has been all over the media from Hardball to the NYT.

I like Dean but the more I see of him the more I wish he would just go away.

[janx]

56. The Moonie Times? How desperate are we getting here?

C'mon. This is trash.

[Rose Siding]

62. "Media Distorts Democrat's Remarks"

The other article up in LBN on this is about the same interview without the reporters editorial choice of the word "puppet".

Mission "Incite The Clueless Masses" Accomplished.

[Upfront]

58. No Puppet

Dean never used the term puppet. The Times makes up facts as it see's fit to hipe a story.

[snooper2]

60. Sounds about right to me...

Clark made a good CNN media whore puppet...

[Dr. Mullion Blasto]

64. Sometimes I wonder

After reading this thread, sometimes I wonder what people on this board really think is going on. Politics is not a parlor game. The primary campaign is all about distinguishing your candidacy from anyone else's. If you never say anything bad about the other guys, I would imagine it would be difficult for people to think that there is much difference between you and them. Dean has chosen to make the primary campaign in many respects a referendum on Democratic strategy in reaction to Bush, just as he will likely choose to make the presidential campaign a referendum on the Bush presidency. So far he has been successful in this endeavor because he has tapped into a visceral discontent among the grassroots on these very issues. Why shouldn't he point out the very real differences in the style and type of campaign he is running?

With Dean, the style and method is the message. That's what his campaign is all about, and he is going to stand or fall with it. I happen to think it is a winning strategy. In my opinion, Clark's appeal is very much to those of us who lack confidence in the Democratic message. We think the Democratic alternatives are really great stuff, but deep down we don't believe anybody else does, so we are always looking for that acceptable alternative. So people who feel and think like this gravitate toward a guy like Wesley Clark, who has never done anything in his life to promote these ideals and alternatives and whose sole distinction, as far as I can see, is that he directed a campaign that killed a lot of people. So he looks tough and gives us credibility amongst those Americans to whom the willingness to kill people in a lofty cause somehow demonstrates a seriousness of moral purpose.

It is very much this sort of thinking that gave us the disaster of the 2002 Congressional campaign. Lets not go down that road again.

[snooper2]

66. Agree with you on what Dean is doing...

But I think Clark's appeal is to the sheeple. The people who don't know who their Senator is.

Just my take on things...

[bobthedrummer]

65. Clark is much bigger threat to Party than Nader and Greens ever were

he is a puppet of moles IMHO.

[bobthedrummer]

68. MOLE PUPPET CLARK.

eom

[bobthedrummer]

70. War Criminal Clark

eom

[bobthedrummer]

72. Neo-conservative dominated military think-tank thinking

affected his character and militarism runs throughout the counter-coup poster-boy Clark.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

76. Yawn

My Ignore list is growing faster than Dean's bat.

DTH

[Tinoire]

71. And he is going to split the party

and take it right more that Nader and the Greens ever did. Once again the DLC is banking on getting enough swing voters to unseat Bush knowing that's he's enough of a New Dem to play along with their right-wing ideology. And the corporations are pumping money into him like crazy knowing that as a corporate insider, he'll be no threat to them. MHO.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

79. Divide and conquer. It's so easy with democrats. Doesn't work with Nazis.

And that's why the petro-nazis are winning.

I recommend a new party called the Patriot Party. Taking back the flag from all those Presiden'ts Day appliance sales, we will wear revolutionary garb (tricorn hats, fife and drum etc.) and our only platform will be the US Constitution and Bill of Rights.

We will point out that our armed services take an oath to 'defend the Constitution from enemies foreign and domestic.'And point out the petro-nazis un-constitutional crimes against the Americal People's self-government.

Whaddya think??

[TahitiNut]

80. dupe/old - locking

This is a duplicate, from the (more inimical?) Washington Times, of a story published yesterday by Reuters and posted in LBN here - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=137348