Firefight fuels debate on women in combat

[Rose Siding]

snip>
For almost a half-hour, Hester and nine other Kentucky National Guard soldiers, including another woman, Spec. Ashley Pullen, fought off 40 to 50 attackers armed with assault rifles, machine guns and rocket-propelled grenades. When the shooting ended, 26 insurgents lay dead and seven were wounded.
.....
Despite military policies banning them from combat units, women have been exposed to fire and are firing back as never before as insurgents wage an unconventional campaign against U.S. forces.
.....
Among supporters of the ban on women in combat is the president of the Center for Military Readiness, a socially conservative advocacy group. The Army should reassess whether women should serve in units such as Hester's 617th Military Police Company that can end up so close to the action, Elaine Donnelly said.
"I think there's some military police roles that women can do and do well," Donnelly said. "But when they start doing things very similar to what the infantry does, that, I think, is a whole different position."
.....
Women remain barred from infantry, armor, Special Forces and certain artillery units. Defense Department policy also excludes them from units smaller than a brigade -- 3,000 to 5,000 soldiers -- with a primary ground combat mission.
That still leaves room for service in police, supply, maintenance and other units that closely support combat troops. Those units are vulnerable in Iraq, where conventional front lines don't exist and insurgents target relatively lightly protected patrols and supply lines.

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/local/11340798.htm

[Kerrytravelers]

1. I am woman hear me roar... if thats ok with the men.

I am so offended. Why is the machismo of some men so high they can not take a woman having the same skills as them? It never ceases to amaze me.

Then I remember, I married a true male feminist. We are equal in every way. We are a team, not a master-slave. I can not image life any different. I wouldn't want to.

[Dhalgren]

2. My wife and I are in complete agreement on this issue, as well.

Everyone should be evaluated as to his or her abilities in regard to combat service. There would be both women and men who would be found "not suited" for combat rolls; and there would be both men and women found "suitable" for combat rolls. Some women can't "cut it", some men can't "cut it" - their genitalia should make no difference, at all.

If someone told me that I had to pick someone to "cover my back" in a fight, there are two or three women I know who would be top of the list.

[MrModerate]

3. Coming back from Baghdad Airport to the Green Zone . . .

one evening in August 2003, I was on a KBR bus that got lost (the driver had wanted to avoid the main airport road -- since we were part of an ad hoc convoy with one Humvee and a bunch of fuel trucks). As night came on, we civilians on the bus grew more and more nervous, especially as the fuel tankers were finding it difficult to keep up, and we had to stop periodically for them to catch up.

Stopping in the middle of a street in Baghdad after dark was not recommended by our security people (none of whom were present at the time)

The single soldier on the bus started out the journey sleeping -- I think she was coming off leave and maybe had been up a tad late the evening before -- but as dark came on, she grew more and more alert, beginning that careful scanning of the area outside the bus that one associates with sharpshooters and the Secret Service.

First she picked up her weapon and sat it in her lap. A few minutes later, I heard her click the safety off. (At this point, the bus driver, who had started the trip in shorts and a t-shirt, had put his flak jacket on and was buckling on his helmet.) Next she pulled a magazine out of her gear and set it on the seat next to her.

When we came to a stop the final time (to let the !@#*%**! tankers catch up again), she clicked the magazine home and chambered a round (I think -- I'm not a gun guy, but that's what it seemed to me) and sat with the weapon at the ready, clearly positioning herself to move anywhere on the bus she needed to, to respond to an outside threat. She exchanged hand signals with the crew in the Humvee ahead, but never broke her concentration.

When we cleared the roundabout to the entrance of the Green Zone there was a quiet cheer from the civvies -- but the soldier didn't relax until we were through the first checkpoint.

And someone's trying to tell me this soldier would have behaved better if she'd had a dick? Yeah, right.

[Rose Siding]

4. What a great story.

Thanks.

[Kerrytravelers]

9. Thank you for that powerful story.

[Eloriel]

11. I'll tell you what about this soldier

the combat branches of the services (Infantry, Artillery, etc. for the Army, for example) are the ones who advance fastest and highest in the Army. I can see it now -- plenty of women SERVING in basically combat situations, but not getting the recognition or credibility for it, and certainly not getting the advancement.

Seems like an old story to me.

[frictionlessO]

5. Honestly what will the enemy do to the women thats any different?

Rape is torture and they'll torture up the men as well. If the women are brave and courageous enough to want these assignment and have no known medical conditions that can interfere than they damn well should let them in ANY frontline combat position.

They are endangering our armed forces by not doing this! How the fuck are the best to be found when they are disqualified before they even get started???

Big friggin' idiots.

[Az_lefty]

6. If they want to keep women out of combat

they had better get every unit out of Iraq. The whole damn country is a free fire zone.

[RamboLiberal]

7. As a woman I say good for them

I've always thought that if women were put in to combat they'd perform as well as the men.

I know from martial arts and combat sports shooting that there are some men who can't hack that a woman can outperform them in something they consider a strictly "male" activity.

And the conservative women who are against this should stop voting for Republicans since it is they who put our women and men in the military in combat.

[Ilsa]

8. This reminds me of a line from GI Jane:

When the Lt. was arguing with the senator about whether the country is ready to see women die, she asked her "Why? Is a woman's life somehow more precious than a man's?" Which brings me back to the notion that there had better be a damn good reason for anyone getting killed.

[leftchick]

10. armor??

Do you mean to tell me they put them in this position not properly equipped and the men around them ?