Nazis killed 200 000 'misfits'

[dArKeR]

Berlin - Some 200 000 handicapped, mentally ill and other institutional patients whose lives the Nazis deemed worthless were killed under the Third Reich during World War II, German officials said on Tuesday as they presented new research into the killings.

Data compiled by the German Federal Archive in a three-year project list hundreds of hospitals and clinics in Germany as well as present-day Austria, Poland and Czech Republic where patients or people the Nazis viewed as social misfits were gassed, drugged or starved to death - the most comprehensive look yet at the scope of the Nazis' programme to exterminate "worthless lives".

The effort includes detailed records from Adolf Hitler's Reich chancellery that came to light in the archives of the East German secret police, the Stasi, after Germany reunified in 1990, said Klaus Oldenhage, the national archive's deputy head. Many other records were destroyed during wartime bombings.

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1423628,00.html

Bush is getting close to that number of Muslims.

[Barrett808]

1. Tiergarten 4

Lifton discusses this in The Nazi Doctors. "Useless eaters," they were called. There's a harrowing sequence in which he describes the infamous Dr. Pfannmueller, who was lecturing visiting doctors in the benefits of the Tiergarten 4 euthanasia program. They simply starved many of the children to death, and the morbidly fat Dr. Pfannmueller would hold a starving infant in his hands to illustrate the success of the program. <shudder/>

[classics]

7. Did he eat the baby too?

It may shock you to find out the 'morbidly fat' were among the 'freaks' were who killed in large numbers at that time. People who didnt fit in then were kept in mental hospitals, which the Nazis promptly emptied.

[Barrett808]

11. Hey, being in the Party has its privileges

"Don't be a schmuck, be a smarty. Come and join the Nazi party."
--Mel Brooks

[JPace]

2. I was told in college....

that Germany has one of the lowest rates of
babies born with mental and physical disorders...
primarily because they eliminated much of
the genetics for it through their murder of
less than perfect human beings during WWII.
They wanted a perfect race and tried to eliminate
everyone that they did not think fit.

[LevChernyi]

25. what the Christ college was that?

Seriously, eugenics is bunk and it's dangerous bunk. I wouldn't have believed there was a serious school that would teach that. It's not even true but more importantly it's an extremely dangerous idea.

[JPace]

33. "it's an extremely dangerous idea."

It was a human biology class in a community college in
Buffalo N.Y. Teachers can pretty much teach as they
please in college within certain guidelines.
I don't find it unbelievable that genetics plays part
in some of mental health and physical healh problems.
There are many things passed through genes, that does
not mean it is moral or right to do away with less
than perfect people. I for one would not be here if
this were the case so I have steak in humanity accepting
less than perfection.
Still I see no reason to be upset if science believes
genes play a part in all this.

[aquart]

40. Define "perfect." Now.

[BiggJawn]

28. Prescott Bush was big on Eugenics, too...

His "Posse" (Harriman, Walker, Rockefeller, et.al.)paid to have the Swiss Shrink, Ernst Ruaudin, come to America and speak on "Racial Purity" in 1932

And he taught his son well, too.

``The per capita income gap between the developed and the developing countries is increasing, in large part the result of higher birth rates in the poorer countries.... Famine in India, unwanted babies in the United States, poverty that seemed to form an unbreakable chain for millions of people--how should we tackle these problems?.... It is quite clear that one of the major challenges of the 1970s ... will be to curb the world's fertility.''-George H. W. Bush

As the Twig is Bent....

Money isn't the only thing the BFEE got from the Nazis.

[Lurking Dem]

30. So was Oliver Wendell Holmes

I have to wonder how much of this type of thing is character flaw and how much is being a product of the times in which one lives.

Of course, Prescott was an asshole in so very many ways.

[aquart]

41. So why weren't the Bush babies drowned at birth?

No ethical or moral sense. No empathy. A clear family trend to addictive substances. Graves Disease.

Or is this like the famed Hapsburg Lip or Victoria's little hemophilia gene? A sign of royal blood?

[The Stranger]

35. Please tell me you aren't serious. . .

or that you went to college in 1850 . . .

[expatriot]

3. Germans:"We thought they were being taken to the Island of Misfit Toys!"

Okay, not funny but I thought this was old news. I thought the number was higher, actually.

[kainah]

4. higher numbers

Yes, what I've always heard is that the 6 million Jews killed were only about half of the total number and that the other 6 million consisted largely of the three g's: gays, gypsies and gimps. (I can call them gimps because I am one.) It's always bothered me that those victims are usually overlooked. So if the number of the "misfits" is only several hundred thousand, that would actually be fewer than I thought.

Unfortunately, that's hardly any reason to be relieved............

[CO Liberal]

34. And Josef Mengele Wanted to Be ....... A Dentist!!!

:-)

[DoNotRefill]

47. You'll be a Dentist....

"When I was younger, just a bad little kid
My mama noticed funny things I did
Like shooting puppies with a B.B. gun
I'd poison guppies and when I was done
I'd find a pussycat and bash in its head
That's when my mama said

What did she say?

She said, "My boy, I think someday
You'll find a way to make your natural tendencies pay

You'll be a dentist
You have a talent for causing things pain
Son, be a dentist
People will pay you to be inhumane
Your temperament's wrong for the priesthood
And teaching would suit you still less
Son, be a dentist
You'll be a success

Here he is, folks the leader of the plaque!
Watch him suck up that gas!
Oh, my god!
He's a dentist and he'll never ever be any good
Who wants their teeth done by the Marquis de Sade?
Oh that hurts!
I'm not numb!

Oh, shut up. Open wide. here I come!
I am your dentist
And I enjoy the career that I picked
I am your dentist
And I get off on the pain I inflict
When I start extracting those molars
You girls will be screaming like holy rollers

And though it may cause my patients distress
Somewhere in heaven above me, I know that my mama's proud of me
'Cause I'm a dentist- and a success
Say ah! Now SPIT!!!

[Karenina]

5. NOW HEAR THIS!!!

Germany and South Africa are the ONLY nations in the world that have confronted their bullshit HEAD ON. The day the U.S. begins that process is the day I give them 5 years of processing before I'm willing to listen to any American criticism of Deutschland.

[ozone_man]

8. Good point.

We don't talk much about our genocide of the Native American population or teach it in our schools. One of these days, maybe. By the way, it was nice to have Germany standing up against the Iraq war.

[burrowowl]

13. Or the killing of

the Guatemalan Indians (approx. 200,000) funded by Iran-contra, Phillipinos etc.

[shamanstar]

14. it is nice to see germany standing up

but i am so sick of people saying "well, they did all their killing in ww2" or "who are they kidding- they dont want peace"

[nolabels]

18. Yea, lets just skip or civil war, shall we

http://www.civil-war.net/pages/fugitive_slave_act.asp

The Civil War Home Page

Dedicated to the participants, both North and South, in the great American Civil War

1861 - 1865

(snip)
person authorized by this act to grant certificates to claimants or fugitives, shall, upon the production of the record and other evidences aforesaid, grant to such claimant a certificate of his right to take any such person identified and proved to be owing service or labor as aforesaid, which certificate shall authorize such claimant to seize or arrest and transport such person to the State or Territory from which he escaped: Provided, That nothing herein contained shall be construed as requiring the production of a transcript of such record as evidence as aforesaid. But in its absence the claim shall be heard and determined upon other satisfactory proofs, competent in law.



Approved, September 18, 1850

The Compromise of 1850 contained a series of laws. One of the crucial laws was the Fugitive Slave Act.

The Fugitive Slave Act legally mandated the return of any runaway slaves, regardless of the location (state) within the Union where they were at the time of their discovery or capture.

As part of The Compromise of 1850, California was admitted as a free state and called for the prohibition of slave trading in the District of Columbia.

Slavery advocates received several concessions related to slaveholding in Texas.

This law was hated by the anti-slavery movement and helped to accelerate the work of the Underground Railroad.


The Civil War Home Page contains thousands of pages of Civil War material including Photos, Images, Battles, Documents, Southern Historical Papers, Troops Furnished, Death Stats, Associations, Letters & Diaries, Census of 1860, Maps, Official Records, Message Board, Dyer's Compendium, Fox's Regimental Losses, Regimental Histories, Genealogy, Biographical Information, Reenacting and Unit Information.
(snip)

PS. I don't know why the call it great, when most people would probably think is was rather ugly, and the people who lived it said so.

[Voltaire99]

26. Good point - let us also look closer to home for horrors

Germany's horrid past is in fact the subject of its laws, school textbooks, and current domestic and international policies.

America's horrid past is whitewashed by professional religious censors. Discussion thereof is shut down by a shrill right wing. Propaganda is substituted in its place, fed to children in school as simplistically as it is to those adults who suckle at CNN or FOX.

Guess which nation is likely to go on killing foreign peoples in the thousands by sanction, bomb, and bullet - all the while telling itself that its own perpetual innocence redeems the deed...

[Radioactive]

6. Scum

Nazi Scum, still they got what they deserved in the end.

[Dirk39]

10. No!

But we have simply lost the war. Just imagine, how much Germany would face, what happened during the Nazi-times, if Germany would have won the war. I'm not too optimistic about that.
The biggest shame till today is, that a lot of these "doctors" could still remain in their old positions after the war! They have taught doctors in Universities! So many of them were whitewashed. A few years ago, it was revealed that you still find embryos in Universities used for studies out of this time! By the way, the Americans were mad about getting the "scientific" results from the atrocities that were commited by doctors in the concentration camps. Although it's not comparable to Nazi-Germany at all and it takes no guilt from Germany, even AFTER the nazi-times, american doctors made studies with patients in hospitals for mentaly disabled people and even usual psychiatric patients, that leave you spechless.
But my answer "no" was only related to the fact that I think, although the bombs were o.k., the american soldiers should have spent more time outside their planes, killing more nazis, after the fighting have stopped. And it's still a shame that so many old nazis were used, when the cold war started. But who am I to complain about the USA, I'm still happy that I wasn't born in a Germany, governed by Nazis, thanx to you folks!
Hello from Germany,
Dirk

[nolabels]

19. I wouldn't be so sure

Did you ever hear about operation paperclip
(links from bobthedrummer)
http://www.namebase.org/main3/Operation-Paperclip.html

http://www.goordnance.apg.army.mil/OPpaperclip.htm

http://infoage.org/paperclip.html

A lot here on this thread, some stuff maybe worth looking into

It's time for another Bush/Nazis thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=199853

[dArKeR]

22. I can see how a country gets hijacked, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove

I honestly don't know the history of Germany but I can see how a country can be made to do things and propaganda is used to fool the citizens. I would believe the Bush Adm. uses more propaganda than Germany ever did.

[Dirk39]

45. Whatever you know about german history...

but every citizen now has access to every kind of information he or she wants and that makes a huge difference. Refering to Nazi-Germany or somehow Stalinism often has a kind of nostalgic moment. I hope, you don't get me wrong on this. The nostalgica lies in the moment, where people can be excused for being victimes or for not having the possibiltiy to know the truth. This excuse doesn't work no more.
And, afaik about german history, as the german I am, it was even wrong when used to excuse the germans as victims of a small group of nazi-leaders. Everybody, who can count till three could have known, what was going on in Germany, then. There is no excuse.
Dirk

[Media_Lies_Daily]

9. If you think that's bad, wait until you read this article...

Ethnic Cleansing in Connecticut
Our state's role in the Nazi eugenics movement
<http://hartfordadvocate.com/gbase/News/content?oid=oid:32556>

Opening paragraphs:

"Hitler and his henchmen victimized an entire continent and exterminated millions in his quest for a co-called "Master Race." But the concept of a white, blond-haired, blue-eyed master Nordic race was not Hitler's. The idea was created in the United States, and cultivated in Connecticut, two to three decades before Hitler came to power, the product of the American eugenics movement. Hartford and indeed the state of Connecticut played an important albeit unknown role in this country's campaign of ethnic cleansing. What's more, Connecticut was an important player in America's eugenic nexus with Nazi Germany.

Eugenics was the racist American pseudoscience determined to wipe away all human beings except those who conformed to a Nordic stereotype. The philosophy was enshrined into national policy by forced sterilization and segregation laws, as well as marriage restrictions enacted in 27 states. In 1909, Connecticut became the third state to adopt such laws. Ultimately, eugenics coercively sterilized some 60,000 Americans, barred the marriage of thousands, forcibly segregated thousands in "colonies," and persecuted untold numbers in ways we are just learning. In Connecticut, only some 600 were coercively sterilized, but hundreds of thousands more were slated for the surgery before the plan was abandoned."

[AliceWonderland]

12. Good point

Media_Lies_Daily. Eugenics was a widespread movement at the time and in some scientific circles, a legitimate area of scholarship. There's an American novel I like, written in 1910 or so, and the hero in the book quizzes the heroine as to her education: is she familiar with the latest advances in biology and eugenics? Nazi emphasis on racial purity was a symptom, not the disease.

[JCMach1]

23. A number of states castrated and sterilized people who

were deemed incompetent during roughly the same period of time...

Henry Ford was a big promoter of the eugenics movement... hence the references in 'Brave New World'

[Paschall]

43. Excessive optimism in science

Yes, eugenics was widespread at that period. Even one of Charles Darwin's sons was an advocate of eugenism. But then Plato also argued for selective breeding of humans in "The Republic."

My Encyclopaedia Britannica tells me English scientist Francis Galton's book "Hereditary Genius" (1869) was the first major publication on the subject. He coined the term "eugenics" in 1883.

The American Eugenics Society was created in 1926. It "supported the proposition that the wealth and social position of the upper classes was justified by a superior genetic endowment." Sound familiar?

Thanks to US eugenists, immigration restrictions were slapped on nations with reputedly "inferior stock": Italy, Greece, and other countries from Eastern Europe. They helped pass involuntary sterilization laws in half of the US that targeted the retarded, the insane, and the epileptic. Such sterilizations continued into the 1970s.

Some Americans apparently still accept the principles of eugenics: Witness the special sperm banks for high IQers.

[DoNotRefill]

15. "three generations of morons is enough"....

There were forcible sterilization programs for the "undesireable" until the 1970's in the US.

[GinaMaria]

36. Wasn't there something

fairly recently about ?Louisiana? maybe admitting they sterilized poor people? One of the southern states openly admitted it. Sorry my brain is foggy. But I swear it was just in the last year that the state government admitted to being involved. Anyone remember this or have a link?

[DoNotRefill]

48. Virginia did...

The "Lynchburg Project"... IIRC, it was finally stopped in the 1970's.

[OldSoldier]

49. North Carolina also has admitted it

It was in the paper last week, not the admission (that was a while back) but the reparations plan.

[kskiska]

24. I know of a family in Connecticut

whose "feeble-minded" children were sterilized. I grew up there hearing about the Southbury Training School, where this was practiced. Many thought it was a good thing.

Re: the Nazis, Waslaw Nijinsky, the dancer, was institutionalized as a schizophrenic back then. His wife, a Hungarian, saved his life by getting him out of Hungary and out of the hands of the Nazis.

[AliceWonderland]

27. Gosh

kskiska, that phrase, "feeble-minded", was used in that novel repeatedly. I just checked the date -- it was written in 1915. The phrase was almost used as satire, but not quite... the doctor in the novel gives the heroine a book on eugenics, about a "feeble-minded" barmaid who had a feeble-minded family with a criminal...then an upstanding family with an upstanding man. Moral: the feeble-minded will breed and spread. And this was a comic novel, I kid you not. Wow, weird to see anyone type that word; I've never seen it outside that book.

[Lurking Dem]

31. If someone's sense of history is better than mine

they can correct me, but I seem to remember we were still ssterilization the mentally retarded in the early '70s, were we not?

I was told by someone at PETA that I should have been "fixed" because I had type 1 diabetes in the early '90s.

[David Zephyr]

16. May the World Never, Ever Forget the Evil of Adolf Hitler's Germany

It is my sincerest wish that any American who ever visits Germany makes certain to visit one of the Hitler's Concentration Camps so as to witness first hand the wickedness possible within the human race.

I thank you for posting this thread and story. Just think about it! "200,000 handicapped, mentally ill and other institutional patients whose lives the Nazis deemed worthless were killed under the Third Reich during World War II." Of course, this is added to the Six Million Jews and hundreds of thousands of homosexuals who were also exterminated by a nation whipped up into hatred and fear of people different than themselves...or so they thought.

It is important to always refresh people's memories of this horror. Why? Because there are still millions upon millions of people around the world who refuse to believe that the holocaust ever even happened at all. It does not fit their narrow ideology or crude religious dogma and it does not square with their need to hate.

Here in the United States we have our very own home grown haters who also stubbornly and wickedly teach that there was no holocaust. In fact, there is a whole commercial market of "authors" and "lecturers" who peddle this crap for profit and who poison young minds when they are most vulnerable to manipulation which frames the human race as a war between "us" and "them".

I have visited the Dachau Camp near Munich twice and I will never be the same. Never.

My companion and I have had the sacred priviledge of visiting Yad Vashem in Jerusalem where one's heart and mind are simply overwhelmed with simultaneous grief and anger at the suffering experienced at cruel and sick hands of the Nazis. The Children's Memorial at Yad Vashem is heartbreaking beyond description.

Thank you for this thread. Never forget.

[DBoon]

17. Never made it to a "Camp"

But did visit the old Gestapo HQ in Berlin. Very creepy. The walls were all tile so they could be washed down easily.

[AndyTiedye]

21. Looks Like the USA Was Preparing to do a Holocaust of its Own

and Hitler merely copied the US plans.

The PNAC gang are still working to those plans, but using war, famine, and disease against those not among their "chosen".

"And advanced forms of biological warfare
that can “target” specific genotypes may
transform biological warfare from the realm
of terror to a politically useful tool."

Rebuilding America's Defenses p60

by Roger Barnett,Alvin Bernstein,Stephen Cambone,Eliot Cohen, Devon Gaffney Cross, Thomas Donnelly, David Epstein, David Fautua, Dan Goure, Donald Kagan, Fred Kagan, Robert Kagan, Robert Killebrew, William Kristol, Mark Lagon, James Lasswell, I. Lewis Libby, Robert Martinage, Phil Meilinger, Mackubin Owens, Steve Rosen, Gary Schmitt, Abram Shulsky, Michael Vickers, Barry Watts, Paul Wolfowitz, Dov Zakheim

Now what is it that makes these people better than the Nazis, again?

(edit typo)

[bleedingheart]

20. Unfortunately this type of stuff is not new...

The ancient Spartans would kill or starve their deformed or mentally retarded children.

and unfortunately its a movement that seems to swell up every so often....

[OldEurope]

29. And the next thing coming up may be...

...to force any pregnant woman to get the child aborted if the baby doesn´t fit in "normal" life.

:scared:

[Spider Jerusalem]

32. The idea of eugenics is alive and well today...

there are groups funding genetic research into the causes of autistic disorders, for the purpose of eliminating them from the human gene pool through prenatal genetic screening and selective abortion. WHich means that if these groups are successful and achieve their goal, people like me won't be born anymore (I am autistic...I have Asperger's Syndrome, a high-functioning form of autism). Not to mention the fact that such people as Albert Einstein, Isaac Newton, Thomas Edison and Thomas Jefferson probably were autistic to some greater or lesser degree...but I suppose we don't need people like them, either.

[bushisanidiot]

38. And Don't Forget the Gay Gene

if there is one. You can bet the repukes will campaign to eliminate spreading the gene in any way they can.. cuz gawd knows it's hell for them to live with us queers having some of the same rights they have.

[David Zephyr]

42. Gay Gene = "Biological Error" Per "Doctor" Laura Mengele

That's my new name for her: Dr. Laura Mengele

[bobthedrummer]

37. T-4 program included euthnesia, and a large film and radio and print

campaign against "life unworthy of life." Mobile gas chambers were used as early as 1932. Very much a culture of death like ours IMO. They started in the Reich first, the T programs.

[ignatius]

39. My husband and I visted the Holocaust museum in

Washingto D.C. a few years ago. The entire tour is heartbreaking, but, when I saw the picture of the naked 10 year old boy who was mentally handicapped and who was killed shortly thereafter, I totally lost it.

I have a handicapped son who is an absolutely beautiful person who gives all people unconditional love. Since Ricky(my son) functions at three year old level, he would have definitely been killed.

The horrors of the Holocaust must be remembered to avoid being repeated. Unfortunately, new, unspeakable horrors seem to be never ending.

I wish and hope for the day when all humans can come together and forgive each others weaknesses and differences.

[goforit]

44. This is absolutely appalling!!!

To think that there is a Hitler in the making
right here on our homeland.

[pezcore64]

46. What I find amusing is...

That ive been called a "social misfit" by conservatives before. LOL. Once again proving their undeniable link to the nazi's ;)