Microsoft paying Ralph Reed $20,000 per month retainer!

[Dr.Phool]

http
://americablog.blogspot.com/2005/04/microsoft-paying-religious-right.html

Microsoft paying Religious Right leader Ralph Reed $20,000 a month retainer
by John in DC - 4/26/2005 09:00:00 AM

AMERICAblog.com has learned that Microsoft is currently paying a $20,000 a month retainer to former Christian Coalition head Ralph Reed's consulting firm Century Strategies. Which now begs the question of whether Reed was in any way involved with Microsoft's recent decision to abandon its decades long support for gay civil rights in order to curry favor with anti-gay bigots of the radical right.

http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005/04/microsoft-paying-religious-right.html

[Bozita]

1. Windows is God's operating system. Mac users are doomed.

[reprobate]

98. No. Mac users are finally free! No spyware, no popups, no viruses. Free!

[benburch]

2. Protection money.

The religious right runs a major protection racket, and that is the reason for the payment.

[brainshrub]

6. Can you imagine if Christian churches decided to use open-source?

Open source is more Christian than proprietary software.

[havocmom]

3. Damn, Havocdad was right! Gates IS the anti-christ!

I had been arguing for years that it was Henry Ford & his infernal internal combustion engine for the common man

[acmejack]

4. Another reason to run Linux!

Linus has never given a dime to the religious Right.

[TreasonousBastard]

26. Ahhh, but there is Mozilla...

betcha didn't know who really runs Mozilla.org--

http://www.mozillaquest.com/Mozilla-02/Mozilla_is_Netscape-02-01_Story-01.html

so, you just can't get away from them, can you?

[youspeakmylanguage]

53. See post #52 below (n/t)

[0007]

5. Full Article....

Microsoft paying Religious Right leader Ralph Reed $20,000 a month retainer
by John in DC - 4/26/2005 09:00:00 AM

AMERICAblog.com has learned that Microsoft is currently paying a $20,000 a month retainer to former Christian Coalition head Ralph Reed's consulting firm Century Strategies. Which now begs the question of whether Reed was in any way involved with Microsoft's recent decision to abandon its decades long support for gay civil rights in order to curry favor with anti-gay bigots of the radical right.



You can find copies of the invoices here:
- Six months of payments to Ralph Reed's Century Strategies.
- Detailed April invoice for $20,000 to Century Strategies.

Interestingly, Microsoft had Reed on retainer during the presidential election of 2000 to apparently help lobby then-candidate Bush on their anti-trust suit (he was actually first hired in the fall of 1998). The contract was terminated after Reed was criticized for a conflict of interest - Reed was working on Bush's campaign. The question arises when Microsoft and Reed revived their work relationship (most observers I've spoken to thought the contract ended five years ago), and what exactly Reed is working on now that the anti-trust issue is over.

Now, just think a minute. Microsoft finds itself under criticism from the local evangelical leader, religious right shareholders, bigoted employees and who knows who else. They don't know what to do. Who do they turn to? Well, if I'm in a religious right pickle, I'd turn to my $20,000 a month retainered religious right consultant, the former leader of the religious right, Ralph Reed.

And which side do we think the former head of the religious right would favor were he advising Microsoft what do when trapped between the Scylla and Charybdis of the gays vs. the religious right?

A. Stick to your guns and defend the gays? or
B. Find a way to stiff the gays and move more in line with the religious right?

Well, shiver my timbers, Microsoft ended up going with option B.

Now a few questions for Microsoft:

1. When did Microsoft hire Ralph Reed and Century Strategies again?

2. Did Microsoft have Reed/Century on retainer at any time during the 2004 election, when Reed was in charge of Bush's re-election campaign in the southeast? And if so, doesn't the same conflict again come to a head, paying $20,000 a month to a senior official in the Bush campaign?

In fact, the earliest invoice I have starts on 11/01/04, that's BEFORE the election. So Microsoft had Reed, a senior Bush campaign official, on the payroll while he was working on the campaign. Why?

3. Why did Microsoft hire Ralph Reed/Century again? What issues is the former head of the Christian Coalition providing guidance on?

4. Did Microsoft ever confer with Ralph Reed about social issues, such as, but not limited to, the current decision to abandon support for the Washington state gay rights bill?

5. Will Microsoft now abandon its contract with Ralph Reed since it has determined it no longer wishes to be involved in "social issues"? After all, social issues (like gambling) are Ralph Reed's specialty - what possible interest could Microsoft have in the former head of the religious right that don't involve his knowledge of, well, the religious right?

6. As Salon.com asked the FIRST time Microsoft hired Reid six years ago:

"But Reed is known principally not for tax cuts but for opposition to abortion, gay rights and other tenets of the Christian conservative agenda. So what gives? What is a cosmopolitan outfit like Microsoft doing hooking up with Pat Robertson's former right-hand man?"

What, indeed.

PS I know for a fact this is for real, Ralph Reed and his firm are currently on retainer with Microsoft.

[youspeakmylanguage]

7. I've always thought Microsoft products were crap...

...with the exception of my trackball mouse. But I admired the fact that Gates, like uber-rich baron's of previous ages, has started giving away the bulk of his riches to the world's poorest.

Right now I'm working on acquiring another home PC, and I'm already in the process of learning how Linux works. Screw Windows and screw Microsoft.

[peacetalksforall]

16. How difficult is Linux? n/t

[Occulus]

20. Picture an almost vertical line.

Just kidding. It's not that hard to learn, particularly now that the interface more closely resembles another OS from a large, well-known company ;) However, you will still need to be prepared to do quite a bit of reading. If you're going to give linux a try, I would suggest going out to a bookstore and buying one of the big linux Bibles that come bundled with a version of the OS; you can grab these for about $60.

Make sure you get the latest release; I would recommend trying Fedora first- that's what I started out with a long time ago. Keep in mind, there are several distributions of linux; you can install one of Fedora, Mandrake, Slackware, SUSE, Debian... it depends on what kind of look and feel you want to end up with.

The really good news regarding all those choices is that if you download them they are free. That's right- you can download the .iso CD or DVD images of the OS, burn, and install, without ever buying a thing... but I would still get a linux Bible covering the distro you want to use. They're THICK books, but you don't read them cover-to-cover. I would read the first couple chapters to familiarize yourself with it, though.

Linux is a powerful OS that comes with a great many tools which could cost thousands of dollars were you to buy their Microsoft equivalents. IMO, it's at least worth a look. :)

[kineneb]

28. Linux is not "instant" like other OS- but much better

It does have a learning curve, but boy it is a lot better than MS products. I won't use them anymore because I am more or less a power user and have broken Windoz too many times. OpenOffice.org is a great office package and is free and maintained by people all over the world. The Gimp is a wonderful graphics program and will do almost anything.

I took my aging IBM 600e to work and do everything on it; one special bonus, no viruses, etc.

I am Not A Programmer, my degree is in music.

Hearing this about MS gives me all the more reasons to shun their products.

Viva Linux!

[Jane Austin]

38. "OpenOffice.org is a great office package

and is free and maintained by people all over the world. The Gimp is a wonderful graphics program and will do almost anything."


I sent this info to the Techno-Dude in our family and he asks if OpenOffice is 100% compatible with Word and Excel?

He acknowledges, regretfully, that pretty much everything has to be compatible with Microsoft these days in order to be fully functional.

Let me add my hosanas for Macs. We use them in our dogstuff.com business and at home, and have always been very happy with them.

Now that there's the Mac box you can use with your existing monitor and keyboard for $500, almost every computer-user can enjoy not having to use Windoze.

Signed,
The family Techno-DUD :)

[RawMaterials]

121. it is 100% compatible with word and excel

but word and excel are not 100% compatible with OO.

one other plus for OO is that you can edit PDF's without buying adobe.

[youspeakmylanguage]

32. I bought a book on using Linux on a desktop PC...

...but I haven't actually had any hands-on experience in using it.

Apparently it is faster, more versatile, and much, much more stable. Also, you can find free open-source alternatives to high-price Windows applications like Word and Excel.

The downside appears to be that you're pretty much on your own when a crash does occur. Although considering the fact that commercial hardware and software companies offer dismal phone support for their products anyway, it might not be much more of an issue than with Windows.

[kineneb]

61. Crash?

I have yet to have any version of Linux crash. When something goes wrong it is always something stupid that I have done. Progams sometimes do wierd things, but the OS doesn't go down, just the program. I leave my desktop running all the time and just log out when I am not using it.

[youspeakmylanguage]

69. Linux is looking better and better...

I think I'm going to simply format the hard drive completely when I get this computer and install Linux from the get-go. Can you tell me the best version to use? I'm looking for a powerful system with a gradual learning curve.

Thanks!

[kineneb]

72. Household favorites-

Our two favorite distros are SuSE (now owned by Novell) and Mandriva (formerly Mandrake). They both have straightforward installs, are able to find almost all hardware without extra drivers, and are pleasant to work with. Most of the other distros tend to be for "advanced" users. With SuSE, get the "professional" pack, which comes with Everything you will probably need, and runs around $80. It also has good manuals. They just released v.9.3.

Anything that allows me to do full office functions on a 600E Thinkpad (w/366 PII) has my vote.

[youspeakmylanguage]

79. Thank you!!!

:yourock:

[RawMaterials]

122. Linux has more power users around

the world that will help you on anything after you RTFM,
granted you have to be able to get onto the internet to get this support.

[AndyTiedye]

33. Linux the Easy Way

You can run Linux off a live CD to try it out.
That leaves your existing system intact until you are ready to change over permanently.

One of the better/easier live CDs is Beatrix:
http://www.watsky.net/Once you install, you can add more software from http://ubuntulinux.org (an org I think most DU'ers would approve of)
or from Debian.

You can also buy a machine with Linux pre-installed. That is even
easier, and avoids any payment to MS by the manufacturer. Some
desktops and laptops can be bought with Linux instead of Windoze.
If you are looking for a pocket-sized computer, instead
of a pocket PC (for which MS is now on it's third incompatable standard)
you can get a Sharp Zaurus, with Linux built-in.

Linux outperforms Windows. This machine blows the doors off of any Windows handheld,
and you can run all that nice free software that MS-based handhelds won't.

You can also Install Linux on an older machine can give it a new lease on life.

[onehandle]

8. Buy a Mac.

Mac! Mac! Mac! Love my PowerBook. Steve Jobs=Democrat. Al Gore sits on Apple's board. Can any of you Windoze users tell me what a "virus" is?

[benburch]

11. AMEN, Brother!

I love my Macs!

White Rose uses an eMac 1GHz and a Bondi Blue iMac 233MHz. They have been VERY reliable! I also have an ancient Tangerine iBook with wireless that I travel with. My wife has a 800MHz iMac DV.

Not a total Mac bigot, though; Also have an 800MHz Celeron Windows 2000 machine and an ancient Prentium Pro Linux machine. And the offsite servers are both Debian Linux.

[peacetalksforall]

15. Macs are not priced for all Democrats.

Besides a good system and a no-virus working environment...are they high priced because they sell less of them than those who sell PCs?

[benburch]

19. I can get you a Mac for cheap!

You do not need to spend a lot to have a very usable Mac running OSX.

[Bigmack]

31. Mac Mini...

Ran me $550. Used my old monitor and keyboard. Power to burn and no freze-ups or "illegal operations".

[Tesha]

34. If you can't afford $499 for a Mac Mini, perhaps you...

> Macs are not priced for all Democrats.

If you can't afford $499 for a Mac Mini, perhaps you shouldn't be
buying a computer at all.

Tesha

[peacetalksforall]

40. Yikes...I'm going to ask someone to pull your arrow out of my head...

evidently I spoke from ignorance. I hear Mac - and I see $1999.00.

No thanks for the insult.

[youspeakmylanguage]

43. $499 is for the basic box.

If you're starting from scratch, you will need to spend an extra $250-$1000+ for a monitor, mouse, keyboard, printer, scanner and whatever other extra you want or need. It's like buying an expensive bike frame just because the cool kids on the block have expensive bikes and you want one but can't afford the whole bike.

Considering that other companies (mainly the one whose name rhymes with "hell") will be happy to sell you an comparably-powered PC, monitor, keyboard, mouse, and sometimes even printer for around $500, the Mac Mini still isn't a good deal.

Of course, the company whose name rhymes with hell also outsources production and support positions. They are the Wal-Mart of PC manufacturers. My advice? Find an IT guy at your company or in your neighborhood that builds PCs. You'll get more for your money and you'll be helping a local guy who has probably been hit hard by outsourcing. Or check out http://www.unionbuiltpc.com for PCs made in America with union labor. They aren't paying me for the plug.

[Tesha]

64. But *THAT* is the point -- Nobody is "starting from scratch" anymore

> If you're starting from scratch, you will need to spend an extra
> $250-$1000+ for a monitor, mouse, keyboard, printer, scanner and
> whatever other extra you want or need.

But *THAT* is the point -- nobody is "starting from scratch"
anymore; everyone has a VGA monitor, most people have a USB mouse and
keyboard and a USB printer.

And if you're going to throw a scanner into the mix, well, they usually
don't come bundled with $499 PCs, either, so that was just rhetorical BS
on your part.

For you average Jane, all it takes to escape Microsoft and all the
world's viruses, adware, malware, and bugs is $499 to buy a Mac Mini.

Tesha

[youspeakmylanguage]

67. I'm glad you speak for everybody, everyone and nobody...

...since you aren't speaking for me or a lot of people I know. The only computer equipment I personally own is a trackball mouse I use at work. Most people who have never owned a computer or haven't owned one in 10 years or more start from scratch.

everyone has a VGA monitor

Ask "everyone" if he is willing to sell his monitor. He may want to upgrade to a flat screen or something.

[Tesha]

71. You don't need to buy a monitor from "Everyone"...

You don't need to buy a monitor from "Everyone"; just hie thee down
to your local dump and *TAKE* any of the dozens of monitors that are
probably piling up there in whatever your town runs as it's "still
good" shed. Odds are that 75% or more of them will do VGA (rather
than the now-ancient CGA) and, of those, 50% or more of them will
probably work, but they got tossed there because "everyone" upgraded
and then discovered that municipalities (etc.) are now starting to
charge for recycling monitors.

But I admit it: you might have to pay real money (a Jackson or two)
for the USB keyboard and mouse.

But lets step back a moment: before this became a game of "attack
the alleged elitist", the whole point of this sub-debate was whether
or not Macs were too expensive to be used as a viable replacement for
PCs (and the money that Microsoft sends to Ralph Reed and Dell sends
to George W. Bush). Clearly, the pricing of Macs is fine or folks
wouldn't have found it so necessary to start attacking this
particular messenger; if my facts were wrong, they could have
attacked my facts instead.

Tesha

[youspeakmylanguage]

73. Facts?

Clearly, the pricing of Macs is fine or folks wouldn't have found it so necessary to start attacking this particular messenger; if my facts were wrong, they could have attacked my facts instead.

You didn't present any "facts" and there was no argument over the pricing of Macs. One poster asked if Macs were more highly priced because of their status as a marginal product in the personal computing business. Most posters here are discussing running Linux on a PC. PC does not automatically equal Microsoft Windows.

Everything was fine, with other posters volunteering information on where to find more affordable Macs, until you popped in and made this statement:

If you can't afford $499 for a Mac Mini, perhaps you shouldn't be buying a computer at all. (emphasis mine)

Where is the fact in that? You made a sweeping generalized statement that many here found to be elitist and offensive. Instead of apologizing for the statement, you are now claiming to be a victim of our "attacks". You set yourself up for scorn and ridicule, and now you can't take it.

[Tesha]

75. Actually, I did present an *ESSENTIAL* fact.

> You didn't present any "facts" and there was no argument over the pricing of Macs.

Actually, there was an argument over the pricing, and I brought the
essential fact that Macs now start at $499 (which is pretty cheap for
a *NEW* computer that isn't purchased from ChinaMart).

Meanwhile, it's actually pretty funny that you (under the color of
"many people") are repeatedly slagging me with being an "elitist"
while you are sugessting that folks should run Linux. Do you actually
believe that Joe/Jane average computer user would be happy with a Linux
system? I'm sorry, but I don't. Maybe in five years, but certainly
not today.

There are two basic choices for most users: 1) PCs running Windows or 2) Macs.

PCs running Windows are, today, a very poor choice for all the
reasons I've outlined.

Macs are a good choice, and reasonably priced, *ESPECIALLY* if you
value your own time and your data.

By the way, what do you figure an adequate PC actually costs? Since
you seem to feel that my $499 figure is still too high, let's lay
some of your cards on the table: What should a user expect to spend
for a *NEW* PC running Windows? (Don't forget to include usable
software such as the bundled Apple iLife suite.)

Tesha

[youspeakmylanguage]

76. Too funny...

When did I imply that Linux users are "elitists"? If you mean Joe/Jane would actually...brace yourself...have to read a manual on how to run Linux, then I guess completing remedial reading classes could qualify anyone as an "elitist". Did you have to read any manuals to use your Mac?

As far as being "happy" with Linux, I'll let other posters expand on their earlier adulatory statements.

I'm not going to defend Windows because I never once stated that I supported anyone using it. Redefining where I stand on an issue does not help your cause. I have only discussed using Linux. Since you're so proud of your "fact", here are a few more facts for you to ponder:

1) Compaq offers a comparably-powered stand-alone PC for $359.99, brand new. IBM offers one for $349.99. Each one can run Windows OR Linux. Wow, the user actually gets to CHOOSE...

2) With your $499 paperweight, iLife is bundled. Comparable open-source software for Linux is free.

3) Apple computers are manufactured in China.

Let me know if you'd like to continue this discussion. Perhaps next you can claim that I think MS-DOS is superior to your Mac OS.

[Tesha]

94. I never said *YOU* were the elitist.

> When did I imply that Linux users are "elitists"?

I never said *YOU* were the elitist. I stated that I was being called
elitist here. And then I joked about how odd it was to be called an
"elitist" in a conversation where I'm recommending Macs while others
are recomending (the much less-approachable, far more FOR-the-elite)
Linux operating system.

Maybe you need to disengage some of your emotion and read what I'm
actually writing instead of what you think I'm writing.

Tesha

[reprobate]

103. April's MacWorld had a good comparison os mini vs cheap PC.

I suggest you read it. Might open some eyes.

http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/editors/2005/01/miniapplesandoranges/index.php

[LivingInTheBubble]

77. USB keyboards really that prevalent?

"most people have a USB mouse and
keyboard and a USB printer."

after using PCs for about 8 years in total and going through a number of them I have only just now bought a USB keyboard and thats only because it happened to come with one aswell as a PS2 adaptor.

nitpicking aside...
I see a different problem with the mac minis and thats not peripherals but upgrades - some things you cant reasonably upgrade yourself (i.e the HD) and if you spec it well (i.e with a decent amount of ram, wireless, bigger HD) then you end up at a price that you could buy a PC at *including monitor, mouse, keyboard*

[Tesha]

93. Why not?

> some things you cant reasonably upgrade yourself (i.e the HD)

Why not? It's not trivial, but it's not much harder than the average
"case crack" and no harder than the average "laptop crack".

For people who like to dink around with computers, the Mac Mini
shouldn't pose much of a challenge. And after all, isn't it the
people who like to dink around with computers that seem most
opposed to Macs (here and elsewhere)? It should be a challenge
they'd welcome! :)

Tesha

[all.of.me]

88. how can i tell if my pc stuff will be compatible with a mini mac?

i have been wanting one since they appeared. i have a pc now, and don't want to have to buy a new monitor. i have a nec flat screen i've had for about 3 years. i have a cheezy mouse and an ergo keyboard. i'd love a mini, but don't know where to ask if i'll have to buy other components.

my other concern is that i'll have to have new photoshop and dreamweaver. how do i deal with that?

thanks for your time.

[Tesha]

90. USB devices and VGA and DVI monitors are compatible.

If your keyboard and mouse are "USB" (that is, if they use a flat
connector instead of the large or small round connectors), they
should work fine.

If your display is EITHER:

• VGA (with the classical "D-shaped" mini connector that's about 3/4"
  wide and has three rows of five or fewer round pins), or
  
  
• DVI (with a D-shaped mini connector that's about 1-1/2" wide and has
  three rows of more than five flat pins),

it should work with the Mac Mini.

Tesha

[all.of.me]

112. thanks! i just checked

my monitor is VGA, mouse is good, keyboard has a round connector. but keyboards are cheap, so that's not a problem. thanks so much!

[boredofeducation]

113. What about his software?

You answered his monitor questions, but what about the Photoshop and Dreamweaver? Does he have to buy Mac versions of those too? And that software isn't cheap either.

[Tesha]

125. There are (essentially) five possibilities for software

There are essentially five possibilities for software:

1. Hybrid discs. For some software (a lot of kids software, games,
   and the like), the package you originally bought was a "hybrid"
   package with both PC and Mac software on the one disc. If that's
   the case, just re-install using the same old disc on the new
   platform.
   
   
2. Virtual PC (a product originally developed by Connectix but
   then bought by Microsoft) allows one to run most PC software in
   "emulation" on the Macintosh. It almost always works for non-game
   software, but its speed may not be acceptable to some users.
   
   
3. "Cross-grades"/"Side-grades"/"Cross-platform upgrades". If you
   have a copy of their software for a PC or Mac, some software vendors
   will let you buy the same software for "the other platform" at a
   lower cost (such as the price of an upgrade). Photoshop and
   Dreamweaver have been frequently upgraded anyway, so maybe
   a (cross-platform) upgrade is in order now anyway?
   
   
4. The demi-worst case, of course, is that you end up buying a
   new copy of the software outright for the new platform. But this
   is rarely the case for professional software.
   
   
5. The worst case is that the software simply isn't available for
   the new platform and there's no reasonable equivalent. This is true
   for a lo of games, the programs used in some "vertical" markets
   (such as accountancy, medical office management, and the like),
   and probably most famously, Autocad. But it certainly isn't true
   of any software used by graphics/web professionals such as Photo-
   shop and Dreamweaver. (And no, "Frontpage" isn't an app used by
   graphics/web professionals!)

Tesha

[youspeakmylanguage]

41. WTF?

If you can't afford $499 for a Mac Mini, perhaps you shouldn't be buying a computer at all.

What kind of statement is that? EVERYONE has the right to a computer, no matter what their price range or budget. You can buy an older computer, fully functioning w/monitor, off of Ebay for $25. It might not run modern software, but a person with limited resources could still purchase a machine with many practical uses. They could even purchase a (GASP!) Mac!

I've always been hesitant to purchase Apple products. Since I entered the "Apple Store" in my local high-end luxury shopping mall, I realized that I could join the cool kids clique if I were willing to spend a third to twice as much more than I would need to spend on a comparable product. I walked right back out.

Check out http://www.unionbuiltpc.com if you have the extra money to buy a new computer American and Union-made. They aren't paying me anything to mention them, BTW.

[youspeakmylanguage]

56. Conc. unionbuiltpc.com...

I should also disclose that I have not purchased anything from them, so I cannot offer a real endorsement. I have only decided to promote them based on the company itself.

It looks like I will be getting a hand-me-down Compaq Presario in the next month or so, so I'm out of the market entirely.

[siliconefreak]

45. umm..are you on the right message board?

I think you're a ex-Freeper who managed to escape from their asylum. Your statement sounds like classic Republicanism.

[Tesha]

65. Thanks for the warm welcome.

I'm simply suggesting that if you don't have $499 to spend on computers,
maybe there are other priorities in your life that deserve attention
first (like food, the rent, or the utility bills).

If Macs cost $100, PC people would still claim they were "too expensive!".
It's just "buyers' remorse": PC people know their computers aren't
up to snuff so they like to pee on the computers that are, and they're
often willing to resort to disinformation to do it. It's like blue
collar voters who voted for Bush and are now out of a job; they can't
accept that it was their own decision that's causing them pain.

Tesha

[youspeakmylanguage]

68. Translation:

If you can't afford a brand-spankin'-new $500 Mini Mac (since you already own a monitor, keyboard, printer and mouse, right?) then you're obviously still scraping yourself out of the gutter. How could you possibly think of joining the Apple clique when Tiny Tim needs a new crutch and Oliver wants more gruel? There are PRIORITIES, people!

Bow to the people with dark turtlenecks and the white earbuds. They are your overlords!

:rofl:

[youspeakmylanguage]

46. thewebfixers.com?

So everyone should have a nice website on a limited budget, but not a computer to view said website?

[benburch]

59. I can get you a Mac under $100!

Look here; http://www.megamacs.com/v1/index.php?cat=10005

I use OSX on a Bondi-Blue original Rev-A iMac and record multimedia with it daily, so any iMac can run OSX if you install it right. You ought to put in at least 192 MB of RAM and a bigger hard drive to any of these. Machines Rev-C and earlier need to have the system partition and any swap files in the first 8 GB of the drive, so you do need to keep that in mind when you add a larger disk than the one they came with.

[boredofeducation]

114. It's junk

They are obsolete junk. $100 is way over price for it, try like $20. I had to send a 100 of them to the dump because no one wanted them. Just like our old 486 computers.

[BiggJawn]

66. That's a little "Elitist", isn't it?

So what's the OS in the on-board system in your "Liberal Limosine"?

That would be precisely along the lines of some Yuppie Spandex Racer Boy on his carbon Trek Madone 5.9 sniffing at my old-school steel Raleigh and saying "If you can't afford a CARBON bicycle at $2200, then maybe you shouldn't be on a bike at all."

And never mind the "warm wlecome". You show your ass, it's gonna get spanked.

Not everyone in this world keeps a photo of The Gates on their dart board, y'know....

[Tesha]

70. I guess some people *LIKE* their money going to Ralph Reed.

I guess some people *LIKE* their money going to Ralph Reed.
I guess some people *LIKE* viruses.
I guess some people *LIKE* spyware.
I guess some people *LIKE* malware.
I guess some people *LIKE* software that phones home with your personal
information (and Longhorn will do more of that, BTW!)

On the other hand, some people think that the difference between (say)
a $299 PC and a $499 Mac is money well spent. (My "Liberal Limosine",
BTW was bought used and is getting on 10 years old and 130, or 140,000
miles now. But feel free to try insulting me again. :) )

No accounting for taste, I guess. Some people like to dink around with
their computers while other people expect to be able to actually *USE*
theirs.

Tesha

[BiggJawn]

74. Whatever...

Could you put some wiggle and squirm on THIS statement:

"If you can't afford $499 for a Mac Mini, perhaps you shouldn't be
buying a computer at all."

And YOU'RE the one claiming to be "insulted" here?

Ah, what the hell. so you're a 'Pooter Fundy and Bill Gates is Satan and Steve Jobs is the Mesiah. I got it.

If it gets you through the night, honey.....

[youspeakmylanguage]

78. I worship Apple...

1) I have limited computer skills and no interest in learning how my computer and OS work, but I have lots of disposable income.

2) I prefer my computer equipment look like props from a Stanley Kubrick movie.

3) I believe a company that outsources jobs and manufacturing has to somehow be progressive and liberal based on the personal politics of the company CEO and the uber-hipness of their marketing and design departments. I also drive a Volkswagen.

4) I belittle people who won't purchase this company's products or at least admit that anything else on the market has to be inferior by default.


Oh, and Think Different{TRADEMARK}. It helps to drink stylishly white fizzy Kool-Aid.

[BiggJawn]

80. I don't. I have a Life (such as it is)

1) "I have limited computer skills and no interest in learning how my computer and OS work, but I have lots of disposable income."

I have SOME computer skills, and even LESS disposable income. But my company's IT department keeps this Dell cooking in the event it should shit all over itself, which it has not since new. My box at home hasn't burped once since I ditched that virus called WinME for Win2K

2) "I prefer my computer equipment look like props from a Stanley Kubrick movie."

I don't give a fuck what the computer looks like. It hides under the desk.

3) "I believe a company that outsources jobs and manufacturing has to somehow be progressive and liberal based on the personal politics of the company CEO and the uber-hipness of their marketing and design departments. I also drive a Volkswagen."

"Uber-Hipness"...I'm old and live in farmland. I never go to Starbucks. I don't follow trends, I follow my Bliss.

4) "I belittle people who won't purchase this company's products or at least admit that anything else on the market has to be inferior by default."

I belittle people, too. But only when they act like pretentious snobs because they're blinded to the possibility of there being life beyond over-priced coffee, European cars, Carbon bicycles, pastel computer boxes, etc.


"Oh, and Think Different{TRADEMARK}. It helps to drink stylishly white fizzy Kool-Aid."

Kool-Aid's for KIDS. Try a Newcastle.

[youspeakmylanguage]

81. I didn't think I needed the SARCASM tag, but...

:shrug:

[BiggJawn]

82. That's OK, I forgot it, too.

No offense taken.
Gotta admit, not bad comebacks, eh? :-)

[youspeakmylanguage]

86. Great comebacks...

...considering I thought you were being serious.

:-)

[Tesha]

83. You really don't have anything but insults and personal attacks, do you?

(NT)

[youspeakmylanguage]

87. When someone makes a ridiculous statement and then...

...acts as though she's being persecuted when called to the carpet on it, I go to town.

[Tesha]

89. The defense is posted below.

> I go to town.

The defense is posted below in a new reply this morning. Why don't you
"go to town" there instead. Well, unless you just like beating up on
people (some folks do, you know).

Tesha

[youspeakmylanguage]

91. So now I'm "beating up" on you?

You have an incredible victim complex. I haven't come close to "beating up on you" in this forum because I don't do that at DU - I respect the rules. I "went to town" with humor and sarcasm. The post you're referring to is a humorous (ahem) and sarcastic (cough) "attack" on ALL APPLE USERS! This is supposed to be FUN. But attempting to engage the humorless in a spirited and now tired conversation appears to be a lost cause.

Anyway, your most recent response, like all the other responses so far, doesn't address the intent of your original statement - a statement you still haven't retracted.

If someone were car shopping and couldn't afford a new car, then telling them they "shouldn't be car shopping in the first place" is still ridiculous and indefensible.

[Tesha]

95. Do you always make up quotes?

Just wondering; it's the sort of thing some people do.

I offered "beating up" as a hypothetical. Then again, if
the shoe fits...

Tesha

[youspeakmylanguage]

96. LOL...

The defense is posted below in a new reply this morning. Why don't you "go to town" there instead. Well, unless you just like beating up on people (some folks do, you know).

So now I'm a violent person? Oh, only if "the shoe fits". Another vaguely-worded statement implying something that you can deny and then pout about being so misunderstood. Also, apparently since all of us were supposed to use our ESP powers to insert the word "new" before "computer" in your original post, it's our fault that we misunderstood your original statement that poor folks "shouldn't be buying a computer at all". Now apparently it has nothing to do with paying our utility bills first, like you stated (or I guess I should say implied) yesterday and will probably now deny.

:nopity: ...the world's smallest violin is playing "Just for the misunderstood DU posters".

This is getting pathological. Anyway, I'm finished here. Have a nice life with your Mac.

[Tesha]

84. I've decided people misunderstood this reply. Here's an analogy.

> If you can't afford $499 for a Mac Mini, perhaps you shouldn't be
> buying a computer at all.

I've decided people misunderstood this reply. Perhaps it's because
I didn't include the assumed word "new" as in "new computer". Perhaps
it was just that some people don't want to understand the reply.

But here's an analogy to help everyone understand it.

You want to buy a new car. There are three basic choices. They all
have about the same power, seating, and options and, for comparably-
equipped NAME BRAND models, they all cost about the same:

1. The first type looks really great and everybody's driven one, but
   its door locks are made of lead and anyone with a screwdriver can
   defeat them so you have to pay extra money for a good security
   system. Plus, every time you even speed past an auto parts store,
   K-Mart, Walmart, or whatever, the car automatically adds five pounds
   of accessories (that you don't want). The end result is that after
   you've driven it for a few weeks, it weighs ten thousand pounds and
   can barely get out of the driveway without bursting the tires. And
   every time you hit a pothole, parts of the car fall off. You can
   detach the unwanted accessories and re-attach the fenders, but
   you're constantly kept busy doing so.
   
   
2. The second type of car runs really well, has a great security
   system, and the fenders stay attached, but it's right-hand drive. Not
   only that, but all the controls are moved around to unusual
   places requiring some retraining and a lot of attention-paying on
   your part. And even though it uses a standard engine, all the other
   bolts in the car are Whitworth, requiring special wrenches. None of
   the accessories you'd buy in the auto parts store fit this car, but
   you can get free accessories by mail-order. Also, this car has *NO*
   warranty, but there are some great car-repair chat rooms on the web.
   
   
3. The third type of car runs really well, has a great security
   system, and the fenders stay attached to this car too. A few of its
   controls are in unusual places, kind of like a Saab. You can buy
   accessories for it in most places. The car comes with a warranty,
   but your alleged friends always mock you about driving it.

Remember, from a NAME BRAND manufacturer, all three cars have
very similar price tags. (You can buy the first two types from
no-name manufacturers at lower costs.)

Which car would you prefer to buy? Which car would you drive?

Tesha

[GiovanniC]

101. None of the Above

Since cars are expensive, and obviously I have no business driving one.

PS: You forgot to mention that the third car will not drive anywhere you want to go.

[Tesha]

108. Actually, that last bit is totally untrue.

> PS: You forgot to mention that the third car will not drive anywhere you want to go.

Ahh, another famous but unfounded anti-Mac slam!

But the truth of the matter is that the Mac will run most of the
software that everyone wants to run INCLUDING a completely
up-to-date version of the Microsoft Office.

In fact, more and more programs are shipping on "hybrid" CD-ROMs
where the Mac and PC software ships on the exact same disc.

Tesha

[GiovanniC]

109. I Could Give a Damn About Office

I'm talking about good gaming programs. Almost none of which work on a Mac.


*Trying to figure out who is more rabid about trying to "convert" everyone -- fundies or Mac users.*

[Tesha]

110. You're right; gamers should stick to PCs.

Macs are not the best choice for blowing shit up, killing people, etc.

Tesha

[GiovanniC]

111. Man, You're Every-Which-Way Of Elitist Superiority, Ain't Ya?

Not that it's justified.

[Tesha]

126. No, I just recognize that gamers will probably be happier with a PC. (NT)

Not elitist at all; just realistic.

Tesha

[boredofeducation]

117. Both mac zealots and fundies hate facts

"*Trying to figure out who is more rabid about trying to "convert" everyone -- fundies or Mac users.*"

Both Mac Zealtos and Fundies hate facts. But Macs can run MICROSOFT Office and connect to the Internets!! WOOHOOOOO

[boredofeducation]

116. wow office

I thought you Gates haters dislike Microsoft.....

Any freaken computer can run Office....

So go out and buy a $2,000 Mackietossy cause it can be a word processor too! Next you will be telling me it can conncect to the Internets!

[Tesha]

127. No need to spend $2000 on a Mac; you need to look at the real prices...

No need to spend $2000 on a Mac; you need to look at the real prices
again.

Tesha

[boredofeducation]

115. Ummm

I have been using and managing PCs for many years, I never had spyware, adware, crapware problems. Any sysadmin with half a brain should beable to defeat this at their corporate firewall or by using basic security that is already built into the operating system.

[Tesha]

128. And real sysadmins should know the price of competing hardware.

(You clearly don't; See above.)

Tesha

[FlashHarry]

50. Not True

See here

BTW, I'm typing this on an iBook!

[boredofeducation]

118. I had to replace a New Apple Xserve with a Dell Poweredge

I had to replace a New Apple Xserve with a New Dell Poweredge because the Xserve spent more time at the repair center than in my rack. The Dell also used higher end SCSI Drives actually was a little cheaper than the Apple, but that didn't matter because we needed a machine that WORKED!

[Tesha]

129. Perhaps you're not the sysadmin you think you are? (NT)

[SammyWinstonJack]

107. My imac wears a frown and I can't get rid of it.

:shrug: When it wasn't wearing it's frown, it froze up constantly. :shrug: And yes it was expensive, too expensive to just sit in the closet for the past year.

[ozymandius]

25. That seals the deal for me.

Next computer will be a Mac. Bill Gates can peddle his crapware to someone else.

[youspeakmylanguage]

44. Not so fast...

Ask around and see if you can find a local IT guy who custom builds PCs. You can install Linux and get much more for your dollar while helping someone who has probably been hit hard by outsourcing.

[Toucano]

29. This makes me ready to switch. n/t

Fuck all this spyware, malware, and constant maintenance crap.

You lose, Gates!

[onehandle]

36. Spyware?

What is this "spyware" you speak of?

Should I be worried?

Nope.

http://www.apple.com/switch/

[Rainscents]

47. Maleware??? LOL

:rofl:

[Lorien]

51. Once you go Mac

you never go back! :D

[Emillereid]

100. Totally agree -- we have five computers in our house. Guess which

two everyone wants to use? You're right -- the MACs!

[RawMaterials]

124. MAC's run on a UNIX offshoot

witch is just like linux.

[Tesha]

130. (Shhh! Don't tell the Linux people --)

> MAC's run on a UNIX offshoot which is just like linux.

(Shhhh! Don't tell the Linux people -- they'll get all upset!)

Yes, Mac OS X runs atop NetBSD, a well-developed, secure Unix system.

Tesha

[TreasonousBastard]

9. I might seem to suck, but...

sounds a lot like business as usual. The world's biggest software company is paying peanuts (to them) for access to the gummint.

What's Oracle paying, and to whom? Computer Associates, SAP, PeopleSoft?

And how about AOL/Time Warner/Netscape, who fund the Mozilla Project?

(And you thought Firefox was really free?)

[KittyWampus]

24. Agreed, And It's Good To Turn Over Rocks Every Once In A While

to see what's breeding in there.

[youspeakmylanguage]

52. Firefox is free, last time I checked...

...,Mozilla is still an open source project, and Netscape is a commercial venture.

From what I understand, Netscape is providing funding and manpower to the Mozilla project in exchange for some finished code to use in Netscape. If I'm wrong, please correct me.

That means, in the end, Mozilla and Firefox will remain open-source projects while Netscape will remain a commercial project. Consumers will still have the choice to choose either the ease of use with Netscape or the protection and innovation of Mozilla.

Where is the conflict here? In fact, what is the downside?

[TreasonousBastard]

54. I don't think there is necessarily a downside...

I just think that all this that started with M$ paying Reed what amounts to lunch money for them should be seen in context.

[youspeakmylanguage]

55. I think it is getting a lot of attention here...

...because, despite their predatory business practices, Microsoft was viewed by many to be a progressive company based on their relations with employees and the charitable donations made through the Gate's charity. This revelation changes that.

It wouldn't suprise me if Reed was on Wal-Mart's payroll, or Halliburton or Exxon. But Microsoft is suprising, just as if it were Starbucks or another "seemingly" progressive company.

I've always disliked their software and their business practices. Now I have a reason to dislike their politics and lack of a collective backbone.

[nine30]

10. Ralph Reed owns a "consulting firm" ?

How many of "God's people" are actually in the business of making money, and profiting ?

http://www.censtrat.com

[Kagemusha]

13. Well, about that, FYI...

I've heard comments to the effect that Reid is not as highly regarded in the Christian Right for his penchant for making money (something that the corporatists find makes him eminently acceptable). So, they regard him as a little impure because he's in the business of making money off a not inherently religious business.

[Al-CIAda]

27. Reed's 'consulting firm' is neck deep in an Indian GAMBLING SCANDAL.

See Coushatta tribe of Louisiana for starters.

[indepat]

12. Something smells fishy at Mficrosoft

[Robin Hood]

14. If this is true,

Then I'm throwing out all of my Windows computers and buying macs.

[boredofeducation]

119. Just replaced a Apple xServe with a Dell Poweredge

Just replaced a Apple xServe with a Dell Poweredge, just needed a server that WORKED!

[Fridays Child]

17. Shit, I could tell MS how to be an asshole for only $10,000 a month.

Seriously, what in the world could Ralph Reed have to offer that's worth $20,000 a month?

[Toucano]

30. Ooh! A bidding war has begun! LOL!

I can do it for $5,000! :rofl:

[tanyev]

85. Surely you jest?

"Sweetcheeks" Ralphie? Just look at that face. Worth every penny.

[peacetalksforall]

18. I've always held a thought in the back of my head, that MS is designed

or could be designed to spy on us by those who want to spy on us - right wing control freaks. Those people who claim they want less government in our lives.

With MS paying Reed, there is kind of a circle payola...maybe more of this is going on.

Taxpayer to government, government to MS, MS to right wing.

(With the help of other corporations).

Gates was a blatant predator and user who is now stuck with this countriies growing theocracy - he has ended up with predators over him - even if a known (alledged) 20 thou a month is not much, but I can't believe Ralph Reed is the only benefactor.

These Reverends and self-proclaimed religious souls sure know how to work the insider commercial world.

[Occulus]

21. Go learn about the security "features" in Longhorn.

Creepy.

[peacetalksforall]

39. I read some of their stuff and could only understand it when I got

towards the end. Yes, it's creepy when you recognize the possibility that a predator like Gates could partner with those who want to control the citizens and do it without a pang of conscience for the loss of privacy.

Interestingly, the logo for the product is a stylized longhorn cattle head....as in TEXXXAAAAS.

Where is Pondexter from. Does anyone think he is gone?

His was a relational database product also.

[Ruby Romaine]

22. Reed also works for AT&T- is there a list available of his clients?

[CornField]

23. I guess Reed needed another sugar daddy

after his involvement with Ambramoff and Scanlon was exposed.

[Jacobin]

35. Relax.

This is simply a bribe paid by Microsoft at the behest of Rove to favorably settle that nasty anti-trust litigation that Clinton's administration started. (Remember? it got settled about nine months after BushCo took power)

This is Washington,DC where bribery, corruption and pay-offs are completely normal and accepted practice.

Why do you hate our freedoms?

[onehandle]

37. You're right.

I'll be going back to Iraq with my tail between my legs now.

I wish I didn't hate those freedoms.

[bunkerbuster1]

42. His official title is NOT "Religious Right leader" Ralph...

it's "Makes Me" Ralph.

that is all.

[Ezlivin]

48. Goddamn! You mean my seminary degree is worth something?

I didn't think I could do a thing with a Masters degree in divinity.

Ralph Reed is just like Jesus without the morals.

[Rainscents]

49. My next computer will be Mac... I will be throwing Microsoft PC out the

window!

[crispini]

57. I don't BELIEVE this.

Bastids.

[Mondon]

58. Like I need another reason to hate Windows. eom

[6000eliot]

60. Funny how these people can make piety pay, non?

If I were at all technically savvy, I'd start a "Queers Use Linux" movement.

[MontageOfFreedom]

62. Oh dear....Microsoft what were you thinking?

Backing up candidates of the religious wrong....I mean please, you should at least have morality.

[w4rma]

63. There is *big* money in being unscrupulous. (nt)

[mod mom]

92. SWITCH TO MAC! $ talks to these corporations! nt

[reprobate]

104. One thing about Macs. They just work. No muss. No fuss. Just work.

[boredofeducation]

120. Apple isn't a corporation?

Did you know Microsoft owns a small part of Apple? Hmmmm I hope that didn't hurt your head.

[alfredo]

97. Tiger will eat Mr Clippy.

Fuck Microsoft

[Emillereid]

99. Another good reason to buy a MAC!

[progressivebydesign]

102. This is ONLY to buy Gates way into repealing worker limits..

Gates is doing personal lobbying right now in D.C. to remove barriers to hiring MORE foreign workers to take American jobs. Gates says that it's a "MYTH" that there are unemployed tech workers in America who would be hurt by their hiring foreign citizens to bring here to take tech jobs.

So.. DU is a literal hotbed of unemployed technical people, or downsized, or underemployed tech workers... do y'all feel like it's a "MYTH"???? A spokesperson for a group of tech workers in America said that actually, the unemployment rates for technically trained American workers outpaces all other areas of unemployment.

So.. the "moral" of the story is this.. if you're the richest man in America, and you want more.. you just throw your money to the influential republican lobbyists, regardless of how vile they are. And.. the other one is this: While a company is bemoaning the state of education in America, and its lack of good tech training and college prep, it's apparently OKAY to destroy breadwinner jobs for Americans parents... thereby making it impossible for kids and schools to have the funding and support they need to succeed. It's called hypocrisy 2.0

[candice]

105. Gates wants no limits on H-1B visa holders

...if you can't ship the jobs overseas, bring lower-waged (indentured) workers here! They can't complain. Discourage corporations from investing in our schools, put Americans out of work, lower the wages overall, increase competition for housing. As a consultant for over 20 years in Silicon Valley, I haven't found the H-1B visa holders to be exceptional, although some are, of course. Supposedly, we weren't able to produce enough average technical workers so these imported ones were needed by industry. I've seen more than one company in which the majority of computer serfs (of which I am one) appear to be here on visas. How much more $$ does Gates need?

[candice]

106. Forgot to add, I love my PowerBook G4

...best piece of technology I've ever owned, next to my iPod.

[Disturbed]

123. Amerkia's Capitalists don't give a damn about..

Amerikans. Their only concern is profits.