Libertarian group chooses New Hampshire as 'free state'

[davidinalameda]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/01/free.state.ap/index.html

New Hampshire (AP) -- A group of libertarians Wednesday announced New Hampshire as the place where it hopes to send 20,000 Americans to create a "free state."

New Hampshire, whose motto is "Live Free or Die," beat out nine other finalists for the Free State Project. Wyoming was runner-up but 10 percentage points behind New Hampshire in balloting conducted by about 5,000 members of the project around the country, Project Vice President Elizabeth McKinstry said.

The 5,000 members have already pledged to relocate to the selected state, Free State Project organizers say. They hope to increase their numbers to 20,000 within two years, move to the chosen state, and start transforming the state into a national model for small government, few laws and individual liberty.

[goobergunch]

1. I doubt this will work

It takes over 200,000 people to win a statewide election in New Hampshire.

[searchingforlight]

2. Sure am glad we didn't make that list!!

[leftyandproud]

3. Good for them.

I think this sort of thing is healthy for our democracy. I would like to see the greens/socialists do something similar. If they can try pure capitalism in a lightly populated state, why can't someone try pure socialism? The members of the FSP will still be forced to pay federal income taxes of course, but if they have the votes, they are free to repeal state income taxes, sales taxes, and all of the local regulations and tarrifs on tobacco, etc. This is simply taking their philosophy to its logical conclusion--If they succeed, we may eventually get some libertarian congressmen and senators in a national office. Like I said--this would be a GREAT idea for 3rd parties on the left to consider. I'd certainly be a part of it.

[maxanne]

6. it's evident

that you aren't from NH.

We don't have a sales tax or a state income tax.

These are not socialists - these are young white guys with money who have no social conscience. We have enough of that here - only we call them Republicans. We provide fewer social services in NH than most third world countries. The budget is so screwed up that my local superior court has a backlog of 2 years. I can see where these folks will be a big help in making what is already bad, even worse.

Why not invite them to YOUR state?

[ozone_man]

7. I feel sorry for you.

I was hoping that they wouldn't choose Vermont, suspecting that they would choose NH. Maybe it was the "live free or die" that convinced them.

[maxanne]

9. thanks ozone_man

They would never have chosen Vermont! Too many liberals.

Our idiot governor invited them to come here.

[ozone_man]

33. Too many liberals?

We have a Republican governor who just raised the sales tax to 6%. But he is a liberal Republican, get it?

That's our brand of Republican, at least the ones that make it into high office. Good old Jim Jeffords couldn't take it (Bush) any more and defected to become an independent. We are blessed to have the 3 best senators/congressman (IMHO) in the country.

Don't fret about the Libertarians. I'm sure they will just sort of be absorbed. I have developed a soft spot (if that's possible) for some Libertarians. Some of their ideas are pretty right on, like abolishishing this fiat currency and the Federal Reserve (Alan Greenspan). Life is a balancing act. :hippie:

[KaraokeKarlton]

34. NH residents aren't going to welcome those people

The idiot governor appartently forgot what just one "anti-government" fella did up in Coleman a few years ago. What a bonehead. Too bad if you're stuck with a Republican governor you didn't at least end up with a Republican like the governor we have now. Jim Douglas is a good man and very fair and respectable. Nice and balanced. But then NH is pretty conservative, too.

[KaraokeKarlton]

32. Oddly enough, they would have more success in Vermont

than they ever will in NH. NH people are NOT tolerant to other people coming in and trying to change things. Vermonters are much more laid back and have more of a "live and let live" attitude. NH has more of a "Don't raise my taxes and don't fuck with me" kind of attitude. NH is A LOT more judgemental than most other states. And quite frankly, after what happened up in Coleman a few years back with that nutcase who had a problem with the authority of the law, I don't foresee these people being welcome in NH. Ain't gonna happen.

[Redneck Socialist]

10. I am curious to see what happens.

If they organize on the local level, school boards etc and work slowly it may come to something. I doubt it though. It is pretty hard to keep people focused and organized that long. Sounds like they will blend right in. I doubt we will even notice they are here.

[maxanne]

13. hah!

You're right, Redneck Socialist, we might not even notice them.

What part of the state are you from?

I live in the White Mountains - a region they may well gravitate toward. The thing is, these guys have high paying jobs. No such luck here in the north. You know what our property tax situation is. Real estate is expensive, and rental prices have skyrocketed.

There's plenty of cheap housing in Berlin - but there aren't any jobs, and the papermill smells pretty bad.

They aren't going to like working at WalMart and being treated like flatlanders.

[Redneck Socialist]

18. Very true!

I live on the seacoast and if they move here they will be drowned in the tide of refugees flooding over the border from MA. They better have high paying jobs because it takes crazy money to get housing down here.

[maxanne]

19. too many liberals

on the seacoast, Redneck. I saw an article that quoted one as wanting to move to Whitefield or Littleton. I don't think they'll enjoy working at the Ethan Allen furniture factory, with no health insurance.

They'll come up here. It will be sad for them when they learn the realities of health care in the north country. They will be even sadder when they learn that the electrician/plumber/contractor might show up a week late - if you're lucky.

Add that to a week of -20 temps, damp and dreary gray skies - ice storms, freezing rain, and where I live, the highest gas prices in the state! They're gonna love it here - especially when they get called flatlanders or massholes.

[KaraokeKarlton]

35. I'm in the Upper Valley over the river in Vermont

There is a horrible housing shortage in this area, and what is open is expensive. They better be looking to shell out almost $1000 a month for 2 bedrooms before utilities.

[NashVegas]

41. Watch Your Water Supply

Privatized utilities are one of their goals, I'm assuming that includes water.

[clar]

23. My sympathies as well

As a Vermonter, I hoped they chose neither Vermont or our good neighbors across the river. Do you think they'll all move to Northern NH? It seems like the only logical choice for them.

[maxanne]

25. of course

They won't like it here, though. Wait till they start hitting moose with their cars, and living with drunken hunters from Massachusetts shooting their dogs.

[KaraokeKarlton]

36. lol

ain't that the truth!

[ithacan]

4. colonizing imperialists!!

seems like a bit of a contradiction: a bunch of people from outside of NH are going to take the state over, ignoring the wishes and freedom of the people of the state itself.

can we say "hypocrisy"??

[LevChernyi]

8. probably "liberventionists"

[The Backlash Cometh]

5. This one is a dupe.

http://democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=14045

[demdave]

15. It can only be a dupe if it has already been posted in LBN.

Cross board discussion and posting does not make it a dupe.

[The Backlash Cometh]

43. Okie dokie.

Mea Culpa.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

11. Wyoming was sweating this vote today...they will be happy

[ozone_man]

40. Ah, Wyoming. Love that Wind River range. Glad you were spared.

I guess they were looking for a state with low population.

[Classical_Liberal]

12. I've been following the Libertarians for some time

and they aren't growing. Surely not in freemarket fundy form. They have been on the decline since the antiglobalization movement gained strength and particularly since the bubble burst on the dot com economy. Their hayday was during the dot com boom. Since then most of the pot smokers have defected anarchist.

[LifeDuringWartime]

27. what are you saying?

that most pot smokers are anarchists? that's one of the stupidest generalizations i've EVER heard.

[LevChernyi]

42. I don't think that was it..

but stoner libertarians in my experience aren't that rooted in the "anarcho-capitalist" economic theory bullshit and given a chance to dwell on some of the more insane notions libertarians have about freedom and property (voluntary slavery would be legal according to their dogma) they turn to more classic forms of anarchism.

[UnapologeticLiberal]

14. I've been saying that New Hampshire is their best hope

And hey, maybe since they do not believe in government, they can abolish the presidential primary so that other states can have a chance to have their primaries count!

Mousepads, Shoe Leather, and Hope - The Great Grassroots Campaign

[maxanne]

16. thanks

I hope they decide to target your state instead.

[novakara]

17. why pick a state, why not a country?

What a bunch of chicken shits. If they really believe in limited gov't why not go start a country somewhere, find an island?

And really, if they aren't for a central government, how come a group of them got together to run the vote? Why couldn't they all just individually choose to move according to their own personal desire and the will of the free market?

Sounds like a bunch of crap to me.

[kwolf68]

26. Good work

There is a real message in your post and I have to tell you...I enjoyed it. :toast:

One of the reasons DU rules

[Racenut20]

20. Can we ship them to Delay's Houston District??

There should be plenty of houses for sale from the Enron bunch.

[maxanne]

21. I hear Crawford

is a nice, relaxing place. Lots of brush, though.

[bluestateguy]

22. Well

The good news: NH would get gay marriages, no gun control, legalized drugs and prostitution.

The bad news: NH would be a paradise for corporations to do whatever they wanted, it would be a hellhole for unions and social programs would be slashed.

Sometimes the Libertarians are our allies, sometimes they are our enemies.

[maxanne]

24. We already are

a paradise for corporations to do whatever they want, a hellhole for unions, and we provide fewer social services than most third world countries.

I don't see libertarians as allies.

[Loyal]

28. NH is not such a bad government,

compared to what we have here in NY. We have massive corruption because of Pataki and the gerrymandering agreements worked out between the Assembly and Senate. Neither house is switching hands any time soon.

[maxanne]

30. we have

400 members in the NH House. The job pays $100 a year. The average age of a state rep is 70. Only wealthy people can afford to be reps. The NH House has been under Republican control since the Civil War.

We have no sales tax, no state income tax. Our budget is smoke and mirrors, cobbled together by medicaid money. Doctors and dentists won't take medicaid patients any more because of the low reimbursement. The reimbursement is so low, because the money that should go toward reimbursement is used for the state budget. We have a high rate of alcholism. We rank 47th in the nation for spending on treatment and education. Fourteen treatment centers have closed in the last 10 years. Our enormous property taxes fund public education. Poorly. The system sucks. We have towns refusing to build workforce housing because they don't want people with kids moving to town, because then they have to educate them.

My county superior court has a 2 year backlog in cases, thanks to cuts in the budget. We are paying to house inmates and pay for their prescription drugs - which is about $20,000 a month. We cut mental health programs and addiction treatment - so now we pay for those people to be in jail.

Our governor is a multimillionare, who spent over 7 million to be elected. He drives a Humvee. He appointed one of his business cronies to be the highest paid state employee in NH history - and one of the highest paid CIO's in the nation. This guy is paid more than the CIO in NY or California.

Yeah, we have a great state government.

[KaraokeKarlton]

37. Well, at least you finally have public kindergarden

:D

[Loyal]

38. No sales tax or income tax?

I'm moving to NH.

[KaraokeKarlton]

39. Oh, you'll pay enough property tax to make up for what you save

from no income or sales tax.

[Loyal]

45. If i'd pay as much in property taxes,

then why do Libertarians want to move there? They%widtwant the state with the lowest total tax burden.

[LevChernyi]

46. because they are stupid..

and haven't yet figured out that if they don't want to pay Fed taxes their State Tax gets higher, and when they don't want to pay State tax the county taxes get higher, and on down the line until all you have are massive crippling sales taxes because believe it not somewhere has to pay for the services.

[The Backlash Cometh]

44. They're too self-interested to be allies to anyone.

They have an agenda, and if they appear to be allies, it's because Liberals are only half of the formula to achieving their goals.

[joshcryer]

29. I can't wait to see the results from this.

It would really dispell a lot of myths about how laissez-faire capitalism is the 'only truely liberating way' to exist. :)

Unless, of course, they went anarchist, in which case I might be behind them, but I know enough about the Free State Project to know that this isn't the case.

[KaraokeKarlton]

31. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha...they are wasting their time

The "live free or die" motto applies to how NH feels about taxes, but NH-ites sure won't welcome a bunch of people who want to change things. NH is tougher with it's laws than Vermont is and everywhere you look there is politics, even in the smallest of town offices. And that's just how NH likes it. :D